Most people don’t actually work 9 to 5 though. That was an idiotic song.
Yea! It’s more like 8-5!
Thats because back then you got a paid lunch and in the 1990s companies stopped offering that and said it was a boon to workers because “you can leave the property for lunch” and other excuses like “liability” and such.
Now workers have to stay an extra hour and dont get paid for that time.
I work 10-630, I can’t go anywhere either. If they open at 9 I don’t have time to go and be back before work.
In Australia at least, it’s common for office jobs to either be 9 to 5 with a half hour lunch break, or 9 to 5:30 with an hour lunch break. Companies I worked at when I lived there (before I moved to the USA) usually did the latter. An hour break was nice because I worked in the center of Melbourne and could walk around the city, get lunch, go to the bank if I needed to, buy stuff from one of the computer stores nearby, etc and still make it back to work on time.
That’s always been a hilarious part of French culture to me. Many of their cafes and sandwich shops are closed for lunch so their employees can go home to eat.
In what cafes and sandwich shop do you go to? I’ve never seen one that was closed during launch hours.
It’s getting rarer but their is some that only open in launch hours instead of the whole afternoon, restaurant can have some specific services hours. (And some cafes stop serving drinks while serving food.)
French culture is to eat at specific hours, so it would be almost impossible to serve food only outside those.
Just small cafes around the park in Clermont-Ferrand. Strolling through the park at noon on a Saturday was the worst time to get hungry or need a drink.
Lolwut
I genuinely think working 12 hrs 3 days a week is the key to happiness in life.
Yeah working 12 hour shifts 2 days on, 2 days off, and alternating weekends was always my favorite schedule. Weekdays off to do important things, fat overtime checks every other week, and taking a one week vacation using only 2 vacation days was awesome.
Go there during lunch time or use some flex time if you can.
Lunch?
Time?
The words you speak are strange and foreign to me.
instead of using that lunch break to eat, or spending flex time doing something meaningful that you enjoy.
The cigarette stores nearby all close at 6pm. Like what the fuck? The liquor store next door don’t close until they legally can’t sell alcohol.
Does the liquor store not also sell cigerettes?
Aw hell, you should quit anyways!
In my town the liquor store I work at can’t sell certain items. We can’t sell food or cigarettes.
You guys have cigarette stores?
This is exactly why we should have 4 day work weeks. Especially when you replace “shop” with “doctor’s office”
What you need are good laws, not so much a 4 day work week. I just go to the doctor during office hours and tell my employer I have to go. I even get paid time off for it, like everyone else working in this country. Same for the dentist or any other kind of medical thing.
Sure, it’s not always optimal if you work in some sort of shift, but they are required to make sure you can go.
By the way, not that I wouldn’t appreciate a 4 day work week, but this seems like a bit of a stretch to say that this is the reason why you would need one.
Yup. This is the way.
But I live and work in the US which means I have no paid days off at all and even if I tell them I have something to do they can call me to tell me to work and be upset if I don’t immediately come to the aid.
I really wish we just believed in reasonable work life balance but I will accept a shorter work week but that’s just gonna go to the upper classes only again.
Doctor? Why would employers want you to see a doctor? If you make it to retirement age they have to pay that out and miss out on a cheaper replacement!
Not sure if that would really help the whole availability issue. We already force a large population of physicians to be on call 24/7 because there aren’t enough to go around.
With an additional day off, more people can go to med school!
I also wonder if there would be more doctors if they didn’t have such an abusive onboarding process that doesn’t necessarily ever get any better after they finish their residence.
It seems like there’s a vicious cycle going on where the crazy hours lead to burnout, which leads to some people leaving, which then leads to more crazy hours to try to make up for the shortage.
What you think there is something wrong with an absolutely necessary industry such as healthcare having a falling practice rate and one of the highest suicide rates of any profession?
You some kind of commie?
Where I live, everyone gets paid leave when they need to see a doctor during working hours. Same is true for everything else that is “important”.
So 4 day work week for you, but 5 day work week for everyone else you would want to visit on Friday?
Nah, we should have different days off, duh. Let me have Wednesdays off, some peeps can have Fridays.
Actually, I would prefer to have weekdays off instead of weekends, easier to focus with less people at work.
Protip: Some of those shops are not meant for the poors to shop at, and set their hours accordingly.
The poors are the ones who need to be at a 9-5 job all the time.
As a poor, I understand.
What I don’t understand is when the government does it.
I have to take a whole day off because I’m obligated to go talk to some person behind a counter, who will tell me that I need form 87324, but won’t be able to tell me what that form is, where to get it, or why I need it, then drive around from government office to government office trying to get the form, only to figure out another person at the first office has it, and when I finally get the stupid form, it needs some meaningless mandatory field filled out by my employer, who thinks I’m sick today.
I guess I’ll cured until the day after tomorrow.
Easy. Every day you spend working, or working on working, or working on government-mandated stuff, you don’t spend reflecting on your life. You won’t start to question what you’re doing, you won’t organize, you won’t revolt. Especially you muricans with nearly no day-offs.
I know your comment is probably more broadly focused than just me (the commenter you’re replying to), but…
Fun fact, I’m not American.
Oh sorry. It sounded like you were 😊
What I don’t understand is when the government does it.
This is by design! Republicans love reducing hours of government offices and introducing new partworkd and requirements to make it harder for The Poors to meet whatever new arbitrary requirements they’ve added to access a given program or be able to vote
The government? Oh that’s easy. They just don’t care.
And you close on weekends
Bank: Perfect.
five o,clock is much to late for a bank to be open.
5 o’clock!? Are they having a sleepover?
Seriously, I found out that my bank chain switched their opening hours to being 10a-4p and most branches are closed on the weekends. It’s not even 40 hours of opening time for the week!
What the fuck kind of a schedule is this? Granted, I’ve hardly ever needed to go to a branch in person because the majority of things can be done online or at an atm, but still. Some things you do occasionally need to visit in person for…like getting a cashier’s check which I had to do recently.
Thankfully the last time I needed one, I was able to drive far away to a location that was open for a couple of hours on Saturday but Jesus Christ.
Oh, now it’s great, there are apps. Before the internet it was misery and before ATMs it was just spiteful. The whole point seemed to be to make sure that you never get to extract cash from your accounts.
Historically bank hours were because they had to count and tabulate every transaction and check for the day after closing, so historically “bank hours” meant very long working hours. Tabulators and computers greatly improved this of course
He’s getting shopblocked.
Wtf kind of shop is only open for 8 hours a day, and business hours at that. I’ve never witnessed that
It’s quite common in my city. There was an event called “Moonlight Madness” where the local shops would be open late. It was in the paper, there were signs put up, big chalk designs all over the sidewalks downtown. “open late” meant “7:30” to most shops. It wasn’t even dark enough for there to be moonlight, just my madness.
Are you really asking “What kind of business keeps business hours”?
Well yeah, because they aren’t their business hours.
English isn’t my native language, I thought it referred to business as in office. Because other jobs definitely don’t keep those hours.
Also I was genuinely curious, id never heard of that. Everything is open at least 8-6 here. Cultural differences I guess.
Yeah, in English a “Business” is just an entity that makes/sells/trades goods/services. A shop is typically the location where a business resides. It’s the physical location of the business. Business hours in the USA are typically 9am to 5pm. Sometimes we call them bank hours.
Banks
I’ve been complaining about banks for YEARS now! I can understand in the 60s why your bank account wasn’t up to the minute accurate.
I have a debit card. I have money in the bank. Why is a $3.19 slim jim transaction pending for a week??? I tap my chip, I type my pin, transaction goes through…my bank should instantly deduct those funds, and there should never be a “pending” status. It’s all digital! What the god damn fuck?
I assume the store didn’t close their batches meaning the banks can’t process it so it sits on pending until it either drops off, or the batch is closed.
Because of ancient COBOL code from the 3 major banks that nearly all transactions pass through at some point. Oh and they can’t rewrite them because
money“CaNt FiX WhAT isNT BrOKe”The code may be old but it isn’t necessarily slow.
There’s a huge amount of risk in rewriting old code. That COBOL or FORTRAN code is likely rock solid and has had 50 years of bug fixes applied to it to cover every possible edge case.
It’s hard to justify the expensive of rewriting all of it (which would likely cost tens of millions of dollars) if the result is new code that does exactly the same thing as the old code.
By ancient, I hope you mean from like the 50s/60s when computers first started becoming a thing, and not like…the 90s. If the 90s is ancient, I’m just going to have to cry.
In terms of technology, the 90s is archaic at this point. Imagine if your bank transactions had to go through a Dell running Windows 98 with a single piece of RAM measured in kb.
I’m pretty sure some parts of the US power grid are running on DOS and some of the medical system hasn’t seen a security update since Windows 2000’s end of life updates.
some parts of the US power grid are running on DOS
What’s the problem with that, though? Systems like that are pretty much guaranteed to be isolated from the internet.
There’s no need to rewrite code just because it’s old. Code doesn’t expire. If it’s still doing what it’s supposed to be doing, it’s really not as bad as people make it out to be. Windows 11 still has code from NT 3.51 in it, because that code still does its job.
Code doesn’t expire. But the programmers do (they die/retire).
If you want someone to maintain that code, old code only gets more expensive. Sure, if it ain’t broke you don’t need to maintain it to fix it, but you need to maintain it to upgrade it. When you eventually need to make an upgrade, it’s going to be expensive. I don’t know if it’s more expensive than making the code not-old though.
There’s nothing wrong with it, per se. As they say, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Just trying to put in perspective the technological difference between the 90s and today that makes the 90s “ancient” and how systems are still running on that old tech today.
The 90s was only about 30 years ago, but when you think of what computers running Windows 95 could do then compared to systems today, it’s like a different era. It’s no small wonder that banking systems can’t keep your accounts up to date in real time when major pieces of them were designed before the internet was more than a DARPA project.
When my dad was in college for engineering, the college had their own computer, and he remembers going into the clean room to put his punch cards into it for classes. When I was a kid in the 90s, I remember being blown away by a flight sim on my dad’s Mac. Today, I can grab my HTC Vive and be right in the cockpit of a fighter jet in something like DCS. Compared to when I was a kid, I might as well be on the holodeck from Star Trek. Dick Tracy’s wrist computer went from science fiction to something people use just so they don’t have to pull their computer out of their pocket.
The only thing that can outpace technology is internet meme culture.
What’s the problem with that, though? Systems like that are pretty much guaranteed to be isolated from the internet.
Because things break down eventually, and when it comes time to buy replacement parts you discover that they’re effectively impossible to find. Then instead of having a nice, planned transition period you’ve got like a weekend to cobble together something to get it working again.
COBOL predates DOS by more than 20 years though. It truly is ancient.
COBOL was developed in the late 50s
To be fair I absolutely do not trust modern programmers with anything close to that important.
Unless they’re using rust.
It’s called banker’s hours.
This is why I refuse to work first shift and don’t have weekends off.
I need to be able to access things like the fucking bank and any govt service whatsoever.
Honestly imo there’s no reason these services aren’t 24/7. They are necessary for modern living and therefore shouldn’t be constrained due to shift schedule.
If people are working during the night then all essential services should be open 24/7
Anyone who works an office job should be able to set their own hours. I choose 6:30-2:30. I can still hit up local shops after. My colleague chooses 10-8 and shops before work. There’s no reason we can’t make this work.
For a lot of time, i thought the 12 hour clock was not that bad
Until i saw people excluding the AM/PM. What does 6:30-2:30 mean? Are you working -4 hours? Are you working from 18:30 to 2:30 or from 6:30 to 14:30? Why do people choose this time format?
Even though you’re right, context is also important. They’re talking about working in an office, so it shouldn’t be difficult to understand that they’re referring to working 8 hours, from 6:30 AM to 2:30 PM
06:30-02:30 (note the 0!) means 6:30 am to 2:30 am the following day. Anything in pm would be +12 hours. 6:30 pm becomes 18:30; 2:30pm is 14:30. Using this format you want 06:30-14:30 which is 8 hours.
This format is important because it actually solves the problem you are trying to explain (am/pm). Regularly I need to give EST database timestamps for a PST server cluster while living in another timezone myself and speaking to someone in India which is :30min difference in time zones and trying to account for daylight savings. Removing am/pm just makes it easier to track what happens in different places without looking at the wrong time window. Time math is messy and stupid, be specific by using 24 hours instead of 12
Edit: I guess no one works in timestamps, keep on being terrible for the rest of us.
Edit 2: if you don’t understand how time works, reconsider your opinion. Spreading misinformation is damaging
Why would anyone care about putting a 0 before the 6 in 6:30. It solves nothing
That’s how international and military time works. It’s a four digit format.
Do all Europeans choose to purposefully misinterpret information that is actually very easy to understand based on context?
The meaning is clear in this context, but not all of them. Especially when instead of a range of hours it is a single one.
Although it is possible to determine they “probably meant this one”, why would you waste your time guessing based on context and risk being wrong when you can just use 24h and be precise.
I think it’s worse that someone from programming.dev doesn’t understand time.
I’m confused by this comment.
Do you not understand how to tell time?choose
Do we?
Yes
Adding 12 to a number isnt that hard
Neither is subtracting it. It appears we are at an impasse
Guessing if you need to subtract it is, however
Gee it’s 16:00, I wonder if I should subtract 12 to convert the time
Guessing each time if 12 needs to be added (with usually important consequences if you guess wrong) is.
If you need to guess to convert, wouldnt you need to guess if its AM or PM?
Are you ten years old or something? How is telling time this difficult for you?
I got confused by the message i was replying to, thinking they were saying that you have to guess to convert between the 2
Yes. You need to guess if it’s AM or PM. That’s what the comment is about.
If whoever says the time uses 24h or explicitly says AM/PM there’s no guessing involved.
Yeah my company doesn’t care when I come and go as long as I work 40 hours and don’t miss meetings. 4 day workweeks are generally frowned upon but you can do it now and then.
Did you reply to the wrong comment?
(Cool though!)
I think I just got confused, sorry.
No worries mate
The company would have to hire more shitty middle managers to micro manage you during a wider amount of hours, we can’t have that.
I’m thankful I can do this. My employer measures performance based on what we actually do, not how long we work for.
I’m usually at work 10 AM to 6:30 PM (which helps avoid peak hour traffic), but I can come in and/or leave earlier or later and it’d be fine. I work from home two days a week, too.
I had a job once with core hours. Everyone had to be there 10 am to 2 pm, but you could decide when to come in and leave as long as you were there 8ish hours, and you were there during core hours.
That’s a pretty good idea.
Yeah, it kicked ass! Everyone was happy with their schedule, since they pretty much set it themselves.
Is buying online not a thing or did I miss something
Not every store sells online…
The shop workers.
They are there from 8am-6pm.
Everything closes at 5pm
They will never be able to go to anyone else’s shop.
(We forget about the people that work there have it worse than we do and they seem to figure it out just fine)
how do they “figure it out”? I’ve always wondered this.
We don’t work 7 days a week, and we usually work at least one weekend day, so we shop (and do other chores) during the week.
Fair enough. Basically what others have suggested in this thread. Flex time, lunch hours, swap shifts with a co-worker.
I’ve had the opportunity with an old job to work 4-days a week before and I wish this was the norm. 4x10 days should be the standard.
