As an european, what scares me , it is that Biden is the ACTUAL president. If he suffers from dementia, who is really in charge now. Who takes the decisions? Usa are involved in at least two major wars and dictate the policy to the europeans. Who is responsible of that? If biden cannot be a candidate , why it is an actual president?
People aren’t even giving him crediting for beating Medicare!
/s
In all seriousness though, I just can’t understand how someone can watch the 2020 debate and 2024 debate, and say the only thing wrong with Biden was his voice…
Like, he wasn’t great in 2020, but 2024 made it sound like Obama in comparison.
The worst part is he was coherent afterwards. The fuck happened.
My bet is that Trump’s stream of bullshit just threw Biden off completely, and his quick recovery to that fiery speech was him getting pissed that he got curbstomped by Shitler in a debate
Next debate should hopefully be VERY different
The deflection that has caused every Democrat loss in recent history.
“Biden shit the bed. WhAt DiD tRuMp Do??!?!1/11!?”
No way should it have. In fact that should have been the literal one thing they were expecting.
Hence him getting pissed after. Embarassment due to being stomped by a strategy he knows about
I may be a shitlib for saying this but biden debated trump before and handled him. There’s no reason he couldn’t have handled him now, except his brain is soup. Trump’s brain is likely in a similar situation, but seeing as he already spoke like a 3rd grader, the difference isn’t as alarming.
If that’s what’s true then both him and his prep team failed horribly. Everyone knew that was going to be Trump strategy. That’s a very common conservative strategy. There’s even words for it I’ve seen multiple YouTube videos breaking this issue down. Just a constant stream of unending lies. It’s what they do. There’s no way to beat it directly. The only thing you can do is scoff at it and redirect to something else.
Oh yeah for sure. It’s why I think his later fire is due to him being pissed - I’d be pissed at myself too if I got thrown off by something I should have KNOWN was coming
My bet is that Trump’s stream of bullshit just threw Biden off completely,
So, you think during those Camp David prep sessions everyone was talking about pre debate…
Not a single person expected trump would show up and act exactly like he has in the last two elections?
And you think it’s fine to leave these people in charge of beating trump?
exactly.
Y’all nibbas need Jesus
he was coherent afterwards
He was reported coherent as soon as he was off camera.
I think he was massively over coached. Trying to fight to remember a ton of talking points and then getting them muddled up and stuck in that detail. He’d have been better off just freestyling it.
I hate that the can’t have notes, they should have a whole team up there to craft the best answer because that’s what I want them to do in real life, work as a team leveraging all available resources to make the best choice
Seriously he just needed one or two dark brandon moments to get trump on tilt and it’s smooth sailing from there. Oh well. I’ll enjoy the dem campaign managers running around with their hair on fire while I can. They should’ve managed someone else into the spotlight years ago.
Funny the way you mentioned Obama because you are spot on.
Obama was by far the best US president in recent history and maybe ever. Then the Dems just went like OK we’ll never ever do something like that again.
and maybe ever.
I voted for him twice and don’t regret it but you’re being a little too generous with this one
G.W.Bush looks like an absolute genius compared to the shit we have today. That said, I can see why it would be easy to see Obama as one of the best, because man we’re striking out…we haven’t seen a non-clown contender in a while.
Youre doing Lincoln a disservice. And Washington too.
Obama droned a lot of kids, he really wasnt that good
Youre doing Lincoln a disservice.
True
And Washington too.
Nah, fuck him he sucked.
You wanna fite?
Then the Dems just went like OK we’ll never ever do something like that again.
I mean, it’s because instead of pulling the DNC left. He just abandoned it because it was a relic of the past and it was easier to just ignore the DNC and let state parties handle their own shit.
His mistake was not completely burning the DNC down. So after he left office and moderates retook control in 2016, they’ve made a lot of moves to ensure a moderate or Republican are the only two options.
People talk about how much Obama pissed off trump.
But its nothing compared to how much Obama pissed off “moderates”.
But its nothing compared to how much Obama pissed off “moderates”.
Are you being fucking for real right now
Obama, and I say this as someone who has a positive opinion of Obama insofar as one can in the political environment that he came to power in, was very much himself a moderate. He didn’t ‘piss off’ moderates. He was one.
Jesus Christ.
Are you kidding?
The Dems lost the house of representatives in Obama’s years 3 and 4. Again in years 5 and 6. And then lost both the house of representatives and the Senate in Obama’s years 7 and 8.
And you’re wondering why they didn’t make a big move left? They lost control in 3 out of 4 elections under Obama. There is more than just the presidential election you know. The left voters never showed up after the first election.
(And imo Hilary did make a move left in climate change with the map room. And guess what, the left voters didn’t show up.)
And guess what, the left voters didn’t show up.
To be fair, Clinton didn’t show up in a lot of swing states, either. She just assumed her Blue Wall would vote for her.
So what do you as the informed left voter, that wants things to move left do? You vote for Dems. You don’t wait to fall in love, you vote.
Pay no attention. That person is a puritanical “leftist” who won’t ever show up anyway. They’re equivalent to a Russian troll sowing disinformation to discourage people.
As long as other people learn I’m happy to do it.
On the contrary: that person is an “enlightened centrist” that blames every Dem loss ever on “going left”, even those of near-republicans with no charisma Hillary and Kerry 🤦
Your conclusion that they’re not worth the bother is absolutely right, though.
Lol I’m not a centrist, nice strawman.
More accurately I blame the left voters that never show up. These logical voters, that logically want a logical platform, that makes logical sense, and until then they will logically not vote, or logically vote 3rd party, because they are logical, but wait they need charisma to feed their feelings.
You really do show it’s the old “Dems fall in love, republicans fall in line.”
Nah, I’ve never missed an opportunity to vote.
Pretty sad state of affairs that you think it’s a binary of either no criticism of whatever corporatist is selected for you or ignoring that they’re the least awful choice 🙄
As for “Dems fall in love, Republicans fall in line”, it’s the opposite now: Republicans worship Trump and most of the people voting for Biden have no love for him but fall in line to avoid Trump.
Obama was by far the best US president in recent history and maybe ever.
If you ignore public policy and just fixate on optics, maybe.
If you ignore public policy and just fixate on optics
DNC: This is the way
As a European, I miss seeing Obama being nice to everyone he meets. I also liked the tan suit btw… Shame he didn’t run again.
Obama was by far the best US president in recent history and maybe ever. Then the Dems just went like OK we’ll never ever do something like that again.
Here’s what I told someone else:
The Dems lost the house of representatives in Obama’s years 3 and 4. Again in years 5 and 6. And then lost both the house of representatives and the Senate in Obama’s years 7 and 8.
You need more than just the president. They lost in 3 out of 4 of Obama’s cycles.
You think they lost because Obama was too far to the left? He was extremely centrist in office.
Sigh.
Why was Obama center for 6 years? Because he didn’t have control of Congress. You need Congress to pass anything. So he was forced to reach across the aisle.
Why? Because left voters never show up. And because left voters never show up, the Dems move to the center to find votes.
Left voters showed up to vote for him and then he basically abandoned the coalition he formed. He had a super majority and did like one, watered down Republican healthcare policy. He should’ve kept up the organizations and email lists he utilized to get into office to keep up the pressure on Congress in midterm elections, but that basically stopped as soon as he became President. He’s not unusual in that regard, every President except for Trump, does this. But it’s especially annoying for Obama because he had the closest to a broad coalition in recent history and it got him a super majority.
Bernie is basically the only Presidential candidate who has shown any awareness of how bottom up coalitions are used, not just to get one into office, but to continue to pressure with the power of the people. That’s why socialists were excited for him. Because he would’ve been an organizer-in-chief. Every other politician rules the same standard way.
Well, Trump does a bit of the organizing thing, too, makes good use of the bully pulpit, and keeps up his movement between election cycles, but mostly to keep himself in power and enrich himself from them. Still, he’s done a similar thing of gotten a lot of non-voters to show up, and pushed the party right. Democrats could do the same thing, and actually push the party left if they wanted to try, instead of showing open contempt for leftists, but it’s admittedly harder because you’d have to fight the corporate owned media and pass legislation, or show you’re actually trying hard to help normal people in public.
He’s not unusual in that regard, every President except for Trump, does this. But it’s especially annoying for Obama because he had the closest to a broad coalition in recent history and it got him a super majority.
Every president does this, right. The DNC will only let in presidents who do this, who never reach out to their voterbase, and instead focus on an increasingly shrinking, aging, middle class centrist population. So they can then go out and every single time compromise with republicans on policy that makes them look good, and then basically be the exact same on most other policy issues, most notably on foreign policy. Then when they don’t get anything done, oh, well, oh darn it’s gonna be by the metric of whoever the rotating super-corrupt bad guy is in the DNC, by whatever margin they might need. Oops, looks like you guys needed to all vote harder to get rid of manchin and sinema.
Point this all out, and people will call you a conspiratorial “both sides” -ing nutcase, but then people plod along every election with basically all of this baked in as a ground floor assumption, and the same exact strategy as always, and then are either surprised when it blows up and nothing happens, or they stand around with their hands in their pockets and bloviate about how everyone else just needed to vote harder, even though people will endlessly point out about how we have an electoral college, so it doesn’t matter, how the candidates pushed in the primary are guaranteed to be institution candidates, so it doesn’t matter, how voting districts are gerrymandered to shit, how we live in a two party fptp system, how studies confirm that well-funded political interest groups and lobbyists shape policy. How even if we give consistent and overwhelming victories we’ve been shown no indication that things are going to change beyond this, further down the line, because no change is even being attempted earlier on with less power.
They’ve actually shown the opposite by trying to outflank trump on whoever can be the most racist to migrants. They’re totally unwilling to even briefly entertain the idea that they could or should actually take a progressive stance on that issue, or try to explain how maybe migrants are all pretty much more chill than your average american, so instead their genius-level play is to try to take the same position as the guy who’s entire deal has been how racist he can be to migrants. It’s like they basically want to lose and keep the pendulum swinging.
It’s nuts, I don’t understand how nobody’s seeing this shit, we’re totally cooked.
Ok Obama and ACA (or more broadly his first two years). He likely reached out for two reasons. One: he wanted to mend the divisions after Bush’s disastrous wars. Get the country unified and back on track and all that jazz. Two: any intelligent candidate knows it’s unlikely they’re going to have control of Congress for all eight years, so he wanted to come off as reasonable and could be worked with, so that he could still accomplish things later in his presidency. I barely blame him for that. Who knew that the GOP was going to explode and become obstructionist to that degree because a half black man got elected. (BTW Biden learned from that and said nuts to it, he’s doing what needs to be done. Biden ran center, but is acting left. Let’s see if it costs him the election when left voters don’t turn out.)
And what was the thanks for the most progressive healthcare legislation? He lost control for the next 6 years. And then the GOP tried their hardest to overturn it. (So no, not a watered down Republican healthcare policy. They fucking hate it.)
pressure with the power of the people
It’s congress. The house or reps and the senate. It’s not the people, it’s congress. That’s why Obama couldn’t do much for his last 6 years. He lost control of the house of reps and the senate.
And to further prove this point, congress even shut down the fucking government under obama. That’s where the power is. Bernie or obama or bill clinton, doesn’t fucking matter. It’s CONGRESS.
Democrats could do the same thing,
Dems need all 3 of presidency, house of reps, and senate to pass anything. They’ve had all 3 for 4 years of the last 24 years. And when they don’t have that they need to reach across the aisle to do something as basic as pass a budget.
The GOP needs only one of those to block literally everything. That’s mostly what the GOP wants to do: Block progress. Hit the big giant pause button on society. And they can do that with only 1 of those, which they’ve had for 20 years of the least 24 years.
That’s the unfortunate reality of progress. Progress takes all 3 houses. Progress takes time, effort, and hard work.
Stagnation (or regression) requires fuck all.
So no, the Dems can’t go left like the GOP goes right. If you want things to go left, then you need to give Dems consistent and overwhelming victories on all 3 houses.
The problem is even when they have control they can barely do anything because of dumb rules like the filibuster, or blue dog senators.
Biden also doesn’t act very left. He’s passed a couple good pieces of legislation, but he doesn’t support popular movements like labor strikes and prefers to make backroom deals (which residues their power for the future organizing), and he’s very staunchly pro genocide for some reason, and been as hard on the border as Trump. He’s just not as fascist as Trump but don’t let the skewed Overton Window deceive you. He’s a centrist moderate Democrat, like an Obama who learned to stop trying to reason with Republicans earlier and picked a few really good people for some cabinet positions (not Blinken, but like for the Secretary of the Interior BLM or FTC) and many meh people for others.
Biden has been a far more successful president than Obama when it comes to implementing policies in a progressive direction.
Biden shit the bed and should fuck off. But I’d vote for his corpse over any filthy republican traitor.
A shame the electoral college voters won’t feel the same way
Both candidates would be more attractive to me if they died actually lol I wish we had the option to just skip having a president for 4 years haha
Why is there no option in the US to vote no confidence and force both parties to reelect new candidates?
Because our electoral system was created 200+ years ago and hasn’t had a major overhaul since.
The biggest overhaul was the Apportionment Act of 1911, which destroyed proportional representation in the US House of Representatives and Electoral College. If not for that, the GOP would have to move Left to gain support from high population states.
Oh, so 200+ years ago it wasn’t so bad. LOL
That’s the thing. It still was but in different ways.
Jesus fucking Christ I hate that I can’t tell if ur from the us or not cuz our constituency is so fucking dumb
At least as pretense, the primaries are meant to prevent the need for that. And we like to pretend a third party could be successful if the other two are sufficiently incompetent/corrupt. In practice, the lawmakers will never implement a process that gives any amount of their power to the people. There was a window of time in the 90’s - 00’s where we thought the future might hold something other than the cyberpunk dystopia we all see coming. Now I’m reduced to just trying to enjoy the last vestiges of the middle class before it’s gone. Umm, but yeah, we should be able to vote no confidence.
Dunno if it’s interesting to you, but communists in Russia often say that it can only get democratic again when the “against all” variant is returned to ballots (CPRF is usually not considered something genuine).
Who’d be the dream choice for american democrats? Hillary Clinton? Michelle Obama (who’s not even a politician) with Barrack as advisor or VP?
I get that this is Lemmy and most people here are communists who’ll say Bernie Sanders, and that’s fine too, but wouldn’t he turn away a bunch of voters?
The space between voice and debate is just so that it looks like an explanation point is in between.
“voice!debate”
Explanation?
Exclamation?
I seriously don’t get along with SwiftKey.
I totally feel that. I used Swiftkey for like 7 years until Microsoft bought them out because everything just SUCKED after that. Predictions, autocorrect, the whole nine yards. I had to drag my sorry ass back to Gboard because it at least autocorrected things better but man do I miss the height of Swiftkey prediction.
Me too, feels bad.
Don’t you mean between voice and in?
Yes!Fixed
It’s still technically between them.
Right you are. But at what price?
deleted by creator
But if I vote for them no matter what surely they’ll move left because they respect me and are good guys
Accelerationism yay
you are already on genocide
Dumb
genocidal.
Your pro trump lies certainly are.
so the genocide is a lie now? and being against it is somehow pro trump?
You giving the election to trump proves you give not a single flying fuck about any Palestinian
Voting for either party no matter what will always result in this shit show. If people were more sensible they’d punish candidates all the time by voting against them and making them lose. Then they’d learn they actually need to do what people want.
So the man has a stutter, and he’s old, what ever. All I can do is cast my single vote. Last time, I voted against Trump, and honestly, even after the debate, I’ll cast my vote this time for Biden.
I’d much rather cast my vote for Hakeem Jeffries, or Shift, or Bernie, or a dozen other people who aren’t an option.
Thing is, I’m going to cast my vote in Cook county IL, so it literally won’t matter. IL is going blue no matter what, and I feel like my participation is merely token.
I wish I could do more, I want to scream at clouds about what is happening to the country, and it doesn’t matter.
Saw a stat that says Trump is 65% to win, and want to physically grab people and shake them, but what would it matter?
Had I walked into that debate blind, not knowing who those people are, what the “facts” and the facts are, I’d have thought, that Biden guy seems weak and befuddled, and boy that Trump is sure a confident leader. It made me feel sick.
As I told my mother today, I don’t have kids, I live in the midwest, have a good job with a big stable company, truth is, even a second Trump term won’t effect me that much. I can just sit back, enjoy my 30 so years left, and watch the world burn, but damn it, I have empathy for others, and there are many, many people whose lives and livelihood are going to be seriously impacted, and that bothers me.
I’ll also be casting my vote in Cook county. I have hispanic kids. My wife is Salvadoran. She is a US citizen born and raised in the US. I’m a white atheist and a dual citizen of the EU who has had the audacity to previously speak poorly about my corporate overlords. I grew up in the south. I don’t trust these project 2025 fucks to stop at illegal immigrants. Biden sucks, but I’ll vote for him anyway because the system literally gives me no other option. Until the system changes or fails, this is what we must do.
If you value the supreme court, lower court appointments, social security, healthcare, childcare, the environment, action on climate change, a competent CDC for the pandemics we’re going to experience more frequently, etc., vote Biden. Yes he’s old. Yes he sucks. Unfortunately he’s the lesser of two evils. And by a wide margin.
If your district is definitely going blue then you could safely vote 3rd party… Think of it as a vote to change the fptp system. There is no way the system will ever change if we don’t start forcing it to.
2016 called, they want their apathy for keeping fascists out of the government back.
Sure wish the DNC and Biden would heed the call
I am not going to vote for Joe Biden. I am going to vote for the Biden Administration. They can “Weekend at Bernie’s” the old man for all I care.
Sounds like a great strategy… smh
Might as well give Trump the presidency on a silver platter
Tell me you skim when you read without telling me you skim when you read. 🤣
Nah you should be advocating his replacement
Sounds like a great strategy… smh
Might as well give Trump the presidency on a silver platter
Better idea than voting for Biden’s earworms
This is a good perspective. Great way to look at it.
That’s been the standard US Presidential SOP since Nixon developed a serious drinking problem and Kissinger demanded all orders go through him first (so as to avoid WW3).
They had an old, dementia ridden actor, and the dumb-ass Bush son for that reason, too. HW Bush could handle his shit but he raised taxes and puked on the Japanese PM so that’s a pass. Trump is just another stooge to be kept in line so that his doners get what they want.
Biden could drop dead on January 21st and we’ll still get to call this mission accomplished, VP Jeffries ain’t a half bad outcome personally, although Kamala having her eyes on that incumbent effect is gonna make me groan come 28
Jeffries is literally one of the most corrupt neolibs in Congress in terms of taking bribe money.
Sure, let’s all pretend the problem was his voice. It’ll do wonders in november.
No one is ignoring the problems…aside from the talking heads who are rambling on about this
As another said: vote for the Biden team, not Biden
Else you get trump and Jared kushner again
It’s getting pretty clear that if things keep going the way they’re going and the options are Team Biden and Team Rapist, Team Rapist is gonna win. That’s a problem. Memes like this ignore the problem.
Memes like this ignore the problem.
Well memes definitely are where I look for in-depth political analysis so you’ve got a great point here. /s
No one is ignoring the problems…
The volume of cope on this forum is obscene
To clarify for you:
I and many others clearly acknowledge the myriad issues with Biden.
As a human, his age and health are of serious concern.
As a candidate, many of his actions, such as the dogged support for Israel are massively reprehensible.
The point is that focusing on a voice or a stutter is not his platform (which, again, has massive issues).
Keeping trump out of the Whitehouse is all that matters, and if someone is gonna fixate on a geriatric person’s ability as an orator, and not their policy decisions, that’s junk.
The point is that focusing on a voice or a stutter is not his platform
His platform is bad. He’s a conservative Democrat who has governed in line with the Bush/Cheney era. From automotive subsidies/bailouts and protectionist tariffs to overpolicing and warmongering abroad and migrant criminalization to privatization of public utilities, he’s been very bad for the country as a whole.
That’s his platform. It’s not good.
Keeping trump out of the Whitehouse is all that matters
Keeping Trump out isn’t a policy. Hell, it isn’t even part of Biden’s platform. Biden had four years to prosecute Trump and failed to do so. He put more effort into prosecuting Assange than Trump, ffs.
Dat cough he had in North Carolina today jeeeeesus I’ve had a cough like that before and the cold that goes with it is an ass kicker.
Cope, neolib your corpse-led country will fail if led by either of those two stains
330 million citizen and only those two were viable?
He needs to withdraw. He has to. The man looks like he’s dying. It’s time to stop playing pretend. This is fucking stupid. He’s literally not physically capable of being president. He doesn’t just have a raspy voice, he rambles incoherently, he can barely seem to register what’s going on at any moment. He nods off in public. He’s ancient. He should be no where near a political office.
If he runs he’s handing Trump the presidency. And I don’t even fully believe he cares. If he cared he would never have run in the first place. He also chose to hammer home on his unending support for Israeli colonialism and crimes against humanity. Just to further aleniate the progressives and moderates who want him to stand up for human rights.
I have no faith in him to drive a car let alone handle the political office of the presidency. He could be a literal corpse and he’d still get my vote over Trump. But you’re asking people to vote for someone who is openly incapable of doing the job he’s campaigning for. He HAS to step down. He CANNOT defeat fascism. He is not capable of it and he is so chronically neoliberal that he cannot even create a strong opposition to fascism.
We’re all freaking the fuck out because this is the worst scenario. The one we ALL SAID WAS COMING. We were all told not to talk about how old he is Trump is old too and all that. And Trump absolutely is old but he’s a fascist for one and fascists vote differently than anyone else does. But much worse he always rambles incoherently so standing next to Joe he looked as he normally does and Biden was the one who had visibly aged.
Enough is enough is enough he has to go. Where is the real political effort to have him withdraw. The clock is ticking until November and he HAS TO GO.
We should all be screaming at the top of our lungs for Biden to drop out now. Fast. Throw in Newsom or Whitmer. I’ll vote for either, doesn’t matter.
This is a no brainer, and no loss. Either they do it which would be great, or we’re stuck with biden anyway, who now looks to be much worse off against trump.
Everyone should be telling biden to drop out. Everyone everyone everyone. And loudly.
This demonstrates just how bad the copiate crisis has become among neolibs
RBG, Feinstein, now Biden. Selfish geriatric boomers should learn when to retire.
I have no faith in the future and only pray death is swift and merciful. I will vote Biden in hopes of delaying the inevitable another four years.
I was hoping that the Right’s march into fascism was going to be the call to action that Americans needed to abandon them and push the country into being a proper developed nation…
Instead, people go along with it to own the libs, and the privileged who know better have the resources to stamp their foot and wait for a savior they should know will never come.
