Blow up the train you spineless cowards
The plan fails, the top track gets removed due to terrorist activities, and even more things are on the remaining track.
(If you ask me: Jan 6 should have had even more consequences for republicans, but they like to bend the rules to their own benefits)
You’ll have to be more specific about what blowing up the train maps to in real life before I can tell you whether or not doing so would also kill a shit ton of people.
But to keep it in metaphor, there are also innocent people riding the train and blowing it to would kill them, too.
Kill your local senator
Yeah, if you made a habit of doing that we’d end to with more deaths and a lower quality of life overall.
Current US senators are not improving your life.
Most of them, sure. But killing them with any kind of regularity would have a number of knock-on effects that would severely decrease many people’s quality of life.
If your friend has a brain tumor, you don’t point a gun to their head and shoot it out. You find brain surgeons and have them remove it under controlled conditions. Supposing you can’t find a brain surgeon, it would still be better to learn brain surgery yourself and do a careful and thorough job than it would be to just shoot your friend in the head and hope for the best.
Propaganda of the deed is a powerful message
People like op.dont care and are bad faith trolls
You say that as if you’re not a liberal pretending to be a leftist.
Call us whatever you like. We don’t vote for strike blocking genocide supporting candidates.
Cool, have fun with apathy, I hope it magically results in a revolution.
I hope your strike blocking, genocide supporting candidate magically results in more workers rights and less genocide.
You say that as though you’re the arbiter of what’s “left” and what’s not.
It’s close enough to the tracks that it would hurt the hostages, and the wreckage would probably have enough momentum to hit them anyway.
This is a good analogy actually. Blowing up the train would feel good, but that isn’t going to stop the momentum, and it’s unfortunately virtually impossible to outright stop it’s momentum at this point. All that blowing up the train would accomplish is sending fiery wreckage towards the middle track.
This is why accelerationism is stupid.
You first.
Fun fact. You don’t get the bottom track without demanding it. You end up on the middle track if you negotiate on human rights.
Yup. You also get the middle track when you show up to the 2020 primaries and think to yourself “I’m gonna vote for a geriatric procorporate establishment white man. This is the best decision for me and everyone else will have to accept it because the alternative is Trump.”
Amusing to see commenters who think Biden primary voters are reading forums on Lemmy and are still venting their grudges 4 years later… 🤣
Where do you suppose all the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries congregate?
Definitely not on one of the most marginal, leftleaning comment boards that is lemmy
Liberal yes, left leaning? Doubtful.
Lemmy was literally developed by communists and it feels like every other person here is a socialist.
I think I’ve only ever seen a few people on here call themselves liberals, and that was in the confused American version of the term, I’ve seen liberal used as an insult infinitely more.
Supporting Biden or Ukraine or Israel also does not immediately equal Liberalism, and I have no clue why yall have been treating it like it does.
Yes, liberals will not call themselves liberals. Much like NIMBYS would never call themselves NIMBYS. Especially ones trying to convince leftists to vote for a procorporate genocide supporting trash of a candidate.
That bottom track should a circle or cliff to demonstrate it goes nowhere.
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The problem is that we have two choices
The problem is that we don’t. If you’re not in a “swing” state, all the votes in the world for Joe Biden are meaningless. Win California by another million votes. Win it by another 10M. Have every single eligible voter in California turn up and vote for Joe Biden. He still loses the EC when the SCOTUS tells Arizona to stop counting ballots the minute Trump is in the lead.
Also like what the fuck…I guess we have to kill Palestinians no matter what.
We have to keep sending money to Israel because its the means by which we control the Suez Canal.
Except… the Houthis have control over the back end of the canal so long as they’re able to scare off shipping in the Gulf of Adan. So now we’re endorsing a genocide just for shits and giggles.
It’s almost like two organizations have totally monopolized US politics. It’s a billion dollar industry, and they’d both rather alternate losing to each other and keep their seat at the table than let anyone else play the game.
Its an enormously lucrative game, so who can blame them?
you blame us for going along with it and blame those who shame anyone who points out that we don’t have to go along with it.
There is a third fucking option and it’s not doing a genocide.
That’s only an option if you have a viable strategy for accomplishing it.
Which, of course, they don’t. It’s a vanity vote. They want to pretend they have actually done something without actually having to do anything of consequence.
If we’re interpreting their “third option” as a voting strategy and not convincing Biden to step in and stop the genocide, we can at least implement Approval Voting so that they can vote for all the “no genocide” candidates without having to worry that doing so could somehow backfire. Then, if they want or need to, they can cast a strategic vote to differentiate between different magnitudes of genocide.
Yes, we need to change the way we vote before voting for POTUS can really move away from a binary choice.
Great. That is a state issue, so pay attention to your state government, vote for state representatives that support better voting methods, and contact your state representatives to push for reform.
That doesn’t change this trolley problem.
As someone else pointed out, those in power are unlikely to change the voting system to reduce their own power. However, you really start at the local level with referendums, and work your way up. First, it’s easier to force change at the local level and second, politicians working their way up will be less hostile to changing to approval if they’ve already shown they can win under that system.
we can at least implement Approval Voting
No, you can’t. You do not have the power to implement Approval Voting, and nobody who does have the power wants to do it. So it’s not gonna happen, at least not in the short term. Right now, anybody who wins has to win in an environment of First Past the Post. Nobody capable of doing that currently supports Approval Voting, so right now it is effectively not on the ballot.
This is what I mean about “hav[ing] a viable strategy.” Magically wishing Approval Voting into existence ain’t it.
Well the strategy is to work your way up from the local level because:
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It’s easier for people to make change at the local level, Fargo and St. Louis have already done it.
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Politicians tend to work their way up the ladder, and will be more open to using the system at higher levels if they already proved they can win under that system.
You have to remember that any real social change takes years, even decades of organized to realize. We didn’t go from Jim Crowe to the civil rights act in a fortnight, it took big organizations applying decades of pressure in multiple different ways.
If you want to be a part of the solution, join an organization dedicated to improving things. It doesn’t have to be the one I linked, but Election Science is the one working on approval voting. Local elections are such that one highly motivated person can build and run the organization to flip their local election laws, it could be you, but it won’t happen overnight.
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It’s an expression of privilege.
Step one: Stop rewarding genocide with votes. 🤷
I agree, now how do we go about making everyone else see it too?
Apparently we can’t in 2024. They didn’t hear us in 2016. They won’t hear us now in 2024. Maybe two Democrat juggernauts losing the presidential election to Trump of all people will convince them.
They’ll just blame the leftists they cant stop attacking then use it as an excuse to move further right yet again.
Because of a shitty situation set up by countless past people and events completely out of your control you have to make a choice here. And in my mind, it’s not even a difficult choice. Yes, either option will support Israel, that’s a given, but there is no third option so it might as well not even be a factor in choosing a candidate.
If you want more parties and to remove first past the post then you need to elect the party who supports those stances. That is one of your two options. Real fucking simple.
No. I do not vote for strike blocking genocide supporting candidates. Real fucking simple.
You will elect a much worse one by not supporting a much better one.
That’s their goal.
It’s interesting how much the vote DOES resemble a trolley problem. Generally, the only real point in favor of not pulling the lever is “You’re killing someone, it’s immoral to get involved. Life shouldn’t be in your hands.”
Which is still setting aside all the conscious choice by other human beings that IS happening come election season. Probably the biggest way it diverges is that a trolley is moving under its own “natural” momentum. In reality, it’s as though some Nazis are pulling the trolley along the track to the 5 people.
The point would be to at least get something out of Biden. Not just to give up without any demands. Bluffs and all that.
These posts are basically calling on leftists to support a genocide. I’ll vote for Biden, but I’d also punch him square in his rich white Zionist jaw if I was given the opportunity. That’s how American democracy works. The U.S. doesn’t deserve a pass for supporting genocide, even if it’s an election year.
Nah, they’re half slacktivists convincing themselves they’re making a difference, half mental preparations of who to blame if Biden ends up losing.
half mental preparations of who to blame if Biden ends up losing.
Lol you’re projecting. You all plan on blaming us despite failing to respect our seat at the negotiation table. We made it very clear: we don’t vote for strike blocking genocide supporting candidates. You all thought you could fuck around and ignore our boundaries. You’re watching us stand up and walk away from the table talking like you still aren’t about to find out.
I swear, the best part about threads like these is that you’re all so used to not even reading the opposing arguments that at this point you can’t even tell eachother apart.
Yes, we’re not interested in arguing. We won’t vote for strike blocking genocide supporting candidates. Nothing is going to change our minds.
The R path needs to replace the trolley with a ton of cars, and then run everyone over (including the US).
Why doesn’t do the more popular and morally right thing to do and simply stop shipping weapons to Isreal?
Thats crazy how every government only has two parties
Its crazy how both parties are heavily invested in killing Palestinians.
Also crazy how Democrats take no credit for persecuting BLM, despite the fact that Obama’s FBI was neck deep in that shit for two years before he left office.
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👏
If your point is that the American system is fucked, we all know. We’ve known for decades. We’re trying to fix it, but progress is basically nonexistent, because every politician who is currently elected benefits from our fucked system. Trying to get to a parliamentary system, like most developed real democracies, is almost entirely out of reach. Just getting ranked choice voting is like pulling teeth, and we’ll have to create a brand new party to have politicians free from corporate interests.
I will have to fight all my life to enact positive change in this country, all because a bunch of rich white assholes who came to power long before I was born have stolen my future from me. Don’t belittle us, mourn for us and never, ever repeat our mistakes.
We’re trying to fix it
every politician who is currently elected benefits from our fucked system.
Wild how electing politicians that benefit from the system hasnt fixed the system yet.
Please refrain from speaking on topics that you have no understsnding of
Mean-spirited comment. Downvoted… 🙄
It’s also a legitimate request to be fair. I don’t really have time to explain the entire political situation of the US and why it’s not viable to change it through individual voting to this person, but they clearly don’t understand enough about it if they’re making silly remarks like this.
damn and every government got that?
The American system of elections is old and it is apparent the Founding Fathers had no Idea as to how the game theory of elections would play out. Worse, they even picked a system of government that was more prone to a two party system than the United Kingdom due to the direct election of the Executive and the inbuilt separation of the Executive and Legislative branches.
Israel, as genocidal as it is, has a system which encourages minor parties to get elected. There are 16 parties elected to the Knesset out of 120 total seats. However, Israel has a unicameral legislature, there are no individual districts or constituencies, and the legislature selects the head of government.
Every government that this meme is relevant to, yeah
oh but not every government. meaning its possible to have a government without first past the post.
…yes? Duh?
Thats what im sayin but everyone here will tell me its impossible
it’s possible, hope this helps
Yes and there’s many places where it exists
Some states here in the USA. Electoral reform is possible at the state level!
Mainly UK and its derivatives… (USA, Canada, Australia 😄)
That Pakistani flag is very ironic considering how Biden organized the coup there.
Why are you blaming the voters for not choosing the lesser evil, instead of blaming the dems for forcing them to make that choice in the first place?
Stop supporting and enabling the fucking genocide, then it’s a no-brainer for everyone. And with so many other people’s lives at stake as well as the Palestinians, how dare the dems play chicken?
Okay, I will minimize genocide as much as possible by voting for Biden.
Can you link some of the Palestinian advocacy groups who are asking us to vote for Biden, since you’re definitely listening to them?
https://uspalestiniancouncil.org/latest-action/arab-american-agenda
Oh look, a tankie linking a psy-op. What a surprise.
I don’t care what a random group says about Palestine when they claim to represent them. I have no way of verifying their integrity, and none of the people I know who have the skills to do so have recommended any to me. So I need to assume anything you link isn’t genuine.
I came to my opinion after speaking with Palestinians not an “advocacy group”. People who I am able to see, hear, and who’s pain is clear in their voices and the tears on their face. People who are resigned to their best option in a man who’s betrayed them less than his rival would.
I am autistic. For years the most popular advocates for people like me was Autism Speaks who openly talked about “curing” us. Advocacy groups are often a sham, and I don’t trust them. Honestly, neither should you; it says a lot that (if you’re sincere) you haven’t figured that out.
Can you link me the evidence that led you to confirm it’s a psyop? The AAI co-signed the letter, so I assume they’re part of the psyop?
Even better, can you link me a pro-Palestinian advocacy group that isn’t a psyop?
“They’re actively trying to make me reconsider my stance on genocide” = shady psy-op by an evil power that wants to control the world?
It is well known that a number of states sow division in the populace of their enemies to weaken them. Does polarizing hot button issues do that? History says it does.
Does Palestine matter to them? No. Does polarizing the populace of the enemy matter to them? Yes. Are either of the organizations linked above tools of states that would like to harm America? I don’t know. Could they, or similar organizations be used that way? Sure.
So every Pro-Palestinian group is a psyop, got it.
Where are you obtaining your information on the genocide?
Because a party that does one genocide surely won’t do another.
They will do genocide for just one day.
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