Mine is fresh highschool graduates getting 2 weeks of training to go work acute, all-male forensic psychiatry. We’re taking criminally insane men who are unsafe to put on a unit with criminally insane women.
…and they would send fresh high school graduates (often girls because hospitals in general tend to be female-dominated) in the yoga pants and club makeup they think are proffessional because they literally have 0 previous work experience to sit suicide watch for criminally insane rapists who said they were suicidal because they knew they would send some 18y/o who doesn’t know any better to sit with them. It went about how you would expect the hundreds of times I watched it happen.
My favorite float technician was the 60 year old guy who was super gassy and looked like an off-season Santa. Everybody hated that guy because they said he was super lazy but he would sit suicide watch all fucking shift without complaining and he almost never failed to dissapoint a sex pest who thought they were gonna get some eye candy (or worse).
What’s your example?
Being a coroner in some places. Medical examiners are professionals with a degree (and coroner’s usually are too), but the coroner is often an elected position, and elected positions usually only have residency and age requirements. Coroners have a huge level of power because they get to decide what is and what is not murder. Someone dies in police custody? They can call it natural causes, and it never goes to the court system. A political opponent dies by two gunshots? That can be called a suicide.
I’m a mortician and posted something similar. Morticians go through 4 years of medical school, including pathology and forensics, because it falls on us when the coroner screws up… and they have. The case that hits me the hardest was an infant being given SIDS as the cause of death, but postmortem bruising and broken bones told a different story. The owner had to call police and fake a funeral arrangement while he waited for them to arrive.
Mortuary school is an associate or bachelor level degree. Morticians do not go to medical school
With no disrespect of the mortician above, medical schooling would be the appropriate term. Medical school is generally equivalent to a phd with an internship after.
You’re correct, I should have chosen the words better. I had the same classes as doctors for years and had to compete with them for grades, but my courses veered once the classes went onto curing people. (It’s a bit too late to cure them, by the time they get to us 😅)
After that, was 4 semesters of postmortem science classes revolving around pathology, chemistry, embalming, biohazard protection, forensics, facial reconstruction; and the weird ones like funeral law/insurance, history of death, customs and religions, psychology of death and dying. I love doing reconstructions and creating prosthetics to match a photo when a person is too decomposed or injured. Giving people the chance to say goodbye and have closure is really rewarding.
My university required 2 years of medical courses; as well as 2 years of mortuary science curriculum. Multiple states I’ve worked in require continuing education in the medical field with exams every year. But every state and university is different. When I was stationed and worked in Colorado, I learned you don’t even need a degree to be a mortician. Any person can shadow a Funeral Director and start embalming. That’s terrifying.
I’ll happily concede that things may have changed. I was in college 10 years ago.
Great, you went to college, not medical school. If someone graduated with a bachelor’s degree in anatomy and physiology, they took more medical related classes than you, but still no one would say they went to “medical school.” It’s deliberately misleading and insulting to the people who actually spend over a decade becoming fully-licensed physicians. Not that dissimilar to stolen valor, frankly. Phlebotomists, nurses, etc all take medical classes and actually go on to treat patients medically, but still no one would say they went to medical school. You do a difficult and important job and you have every right to be proud of it, but you have nowhere near the level of medical knowledge or training of someone who went to medical school.
I get what you’re saying, but I respectfully disagree. I don’t think you understand the course load/requirements for this degree. It might be different for different schools, so I’m happy to elaborate. First of, ignore pre-reqs, like math/english/computer/etc. and let’s just talk science. My university was one of the top in the nation and I was required to take the same courses as doctors for years; I had to compete with them for my grades (bell curves suck); the only difference was that my courses changed direction when it got to classes regarding curing/treating people. You don’t need that for a postmortem science degree, so the next 4 semesters went into strictly death related education.
My university had us thoroughly trained on any potential medical risks, biohazards, and hospital procedures. We were dissecting, helping with autopsies, learning forensics and pathology, training in everything regarding the heart and vascular system, and don’t get me started on all the chemistry/physiology… yes, the courses veered, to avoid teaching us how to cure someone, but that does not take away that we go through medical school.
We are trained to be the last line of defense for catching crimes and doctor’s mistakes; we have continuing education alongside doctors, nurses, and pathologists; we have to work with people who’ve died of dangerous diseases and protect the public… we just don’t have to worry about curing a corpse. If you’ve actually read this, please start your reply with the word autopsy.
Ah yes like the Boeing employees who shot themselves in the head twice.
My grandmother was the county coroner for a while. She was a pharmacist professionally. In those places, it’s more “give it a quick kick and say they’re dead” (she never did that) more than anything else. She only declared death, not attribute cause to my knowledge.
The other part of it is that, for whatever reason, in my county the only higher arresting authority than the sheriff was the coroner. It was her job to serve him with papers when he was being sued and, not that it ever came up, arrest him when it needed done.
Weird system.
In several states the coroner is also the only authority that can arrest the governor as well. Very strange system.
That sounds like a niche power that’d be fun to try out just to see if it works LOL.
“You’re under arrest, governor!”
“On what charges?!”
“Well you’re in a position of power, giving you probable cause!”
[Finds tons of corruption, unsurprisingly.]
There is no requirement that I am aware of for college professors to have any training in the fundamentals of instruction, and it SHOWS.
I really noticed this once I found myself at the community college. The school liked to market that you were educated by “working professionals with industry experience.” which translated to the school paying them less than their second, full-time job on top of all the stuff about them not knowing how to teach while they were in charge of the grading of 20+ classes per semester. Prior to that in my experience I had only ever come across professors who were incredibly passionate about what they were teaching or alternatively were incredibly passionate about teaching-itself. it was eye-opening in the most frustrating way.
This is kind of backwards in the aviation world: There’s a whole separate certificate for flight instructors which involves training in psychology, lesson planning and all that in addition to stuff like flying the plane from the right seat, spin training and all that. Thing is, it’s often baby’s first aviation job. A lot of flight instructors are freshly minted commercial pilots and their first lesson is their first revenue flight. You don’t get to go fly jets for the charters and airlines without experience, and where do you get experience? flying smaller, less expensive aircraft. What’s the single biggest demand for pilots flying smaller, less expensive aircraft? Flight schools.
9/10 of my graduate professors couldn’t profess their way out of a paper bag. The actually good teachers were limited because they didn’t research enough. Fuck grad school.
I aspired to work in education in college and took a lot of courses on adult education and how to teach people. I recognized that my favorite teachers in K-12 used those techniques , while realizing none of it was done at the college level.
I don’t work in education but I find myself using those techniques all the time in the workplace. And there’s a clear difference between my department’s onboarding and capabilities versus others.
That’s because professors are still intended to be researchers first, which makes sense for the cutting edge topics, but there’s a ton of college level fundamentals you need to understand first.
Kind of off topic but mildy related. Have you seen the old Val Kilmer movie Real Genius? Just wondering if you find it a fun watch today or not
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Project manager in the creative industries. One place I worked had this policy of moving receptionists into project management. Zero experience and zero training prior to starting.
Was there a “job for a job” program run by management?
The Finance Director was fired for being a sex pest. This was after years of hiring policy that basically meant all PMs were his particular type (blonde, big boobs).
EMS/Ambulance workers
That must be regional. My dad did EMS on the side - he once had no less than 5 jobs; no really - and it was easy for a fireman to get into but added to his retraining/recert load. And he was always recertifying.
They’re not doctors: they want to keep your body alive (and ideally brain too) so you get to a doctor and a team. They’re really great and their bus is usually outfitted well enough, but their two main skills are CPR and a Siren, I think. Plus a desire to help people for a pittance and cope with the trauma of someone dying on-board, which is second only to arriving at a scene and finding your best friend was killed by a drunk who’s trying to start his car and drive home.
… so my dad quit EMS the next day.
I was shocked about this, I’d assumed it was well trained trauma doctors in the ambulance with you at your most critical moment.
I don’t know. I had to do a 3 month boot camp run through a local community college, and that included 36 hours of clinicals on an ambulance. There were daily tests, training on all the equipment, and batteries of tests finals that we had to pass. My favorite was we had to have a 80 in the course to qualify for the finals, but anything less than a 70 on any of the tests would disqualify you from taking registry, even if you had an 100 percent aside from that. That was for EMT Basic, the lowest levels of licensure. It’s a two year degree to become a paramedic (and I think thats like 200 hours of clincals, or something). And once I was in, there were 12 hours of CEs required for licensure (the company offered trainings), and I did have a written and practical test to take with the ambulance before they let me code, with a probationary period (mine was a few months, they really didn’t like me, looking back because I’m Jewish.)
I won’t go to bat for the industry very often. I was making minimum wage, I was working 60 hour weeks. The culture has a problem with boot licking and racism, work life balance, and catty bullshit. I never left like management had my back, and people gossip. And that’s before you get to the insane nature of the work, and the constant death and crisis around you. I worked nights; nothing was open, and there was never any time to eat, so we opted for handheld, easily available garbage from convenience stores. And of course, I never saw my family.
But even though registry can’t prepare you for the road, I would never have claimed I wasn’t properly trained.
That’s like half of the training I got to get my A+ certificate to work on personal computers.
Which country are you from?
POTUS
Elected positions always have that risk, but normally there is some kind of expectation of relevant experience by voters.
normally
There has been nothing normal about our elective process since the summer of 2015. And it’s only getting more fucked up across the board.
some kind of expectation of relevant experience
heh
Imagine if voters only voted for responsible people who would make good presidents.
For me it is people making food, supplements, and drugs. From their production to their quality department. Just full of people that have no idea what they are doing and making poor decisions. That’s not even to mention the management and owners.
Bonus: Home inspectors / mold remediation “professionals”. Absolutely clueless.
The mold remediation is something I was forced to deal with at our 2nd house we bought, was a foreclosured place that had been sitting, bank wouldn’t sell it until the mold in the basement was taken care of, the “professionals” the bank hired, literally were 2 young kids probably 19 or 20, that came in and just ripped out all the drywall and tossed it in the driveway, then left all the wall studs still covered in mold, in. Told the bank they were done and the bank agreed with it. I don’t know how much they paid them but it wasn’t worth more than the 2 hours of labor to demo some drywall.
They are supposed to take air samples before and after a remediation to show that the mold is decreasing. This includes lots of fans and can even include ozone treatment. Unfortunately I know some companies will fake test results to get a client. We’re talking pre and post remediation. It’s a super shady business. I would always recommend multiple opinions.
Yea they didn’t do shit, but we wanted the house, so we just didn’t really care. I ended up gutting the basement anyways and rebuilding everything properly, but yea the bank got completely screwed dealing with them.
My partner works in food service and always comments that despite what conservative Kens and Karens think, you really don’t want adolescents to be the primary handlers of things you put inside your body, especially not that last little bit where they’re supposed to cook off all the bacteria and viruses.
Pharm tech licensing varies wiiiiidely across the states. Some require natl very, some require basically on job training IIRC.
RPh not so much, but tech also has responsibility not to kill you with a misfill and more eyes are always good for preventing deaths.
The shit wages they pay in relation to being responsible in part for safety and accuracy (in retail) is a big part of why most retail is dangerously understaffed.
Same for insurance agents and real estate agents in many (most?) of US. HS, a couple weeks of “teaching to the test,” and a test is all it takes. Rote memorisation. - lots of those younger folks in insurance couldn’t define what they may/may not say/promise, or who is an “Insured” under a given policy.
A position making engineering disposition decisions on hardware that do not meet print. Sometimes, using the hardware can be ok with robust technical analysis to make sure there will be no impact to function or life of the part or the system it’s going into. It’s typically a seasoned engineer with a good understanding of the specific product, and a title/position high enough they can stand up to pressures.
A supplier I worked with recently put a green engineer fresh out of college in the role. He was pressured to allow stuff out the door so the company could hit monthly delivery and $ targets. He never should have approved certain parts but didn’t have the technical knowledge, nor the confidence and reputation and leadership support to stand up to the people trying to ship bad product. The function was made useless by their decision to put him in the role, and he’s also developing terrible engineering habits that are going to haunt him.
There’s some excellent analogues in the Healthcare industry, particularly allowing new nurses to train each other. There’s basic standard practice things going completely ignored because they’re just not getting passed down. They’re not getting passed down because pushing the people who know those things out of their roles (experience costs $$) before they can pass that knowledge on. It’s a mess. And, as you say, they’ve earned enough respect and have enough confidence their their practice to call admin on their bullshit (I’m running into a lot of this lately).
Judges… The fact they aren’t required to have gone through law school is horrifying.
While thats technically allowed in Canada. When the Conservative party tried to do it under Harper and then-minister Poilievre to start stacking the court system with cronies, every part of the system raised hell enough for evem those religious nutters to back off.
This is somewhat location specific, each American state has their own rules for the judges, and some require law school and legal experience.
In what country are they not required to have gone through law school?
I’m guessing 'Murica
IIRC, the International Criminal Court. They accept judges that would be qualified in their home country. With the US stepping out of it, one of the ICC’s biggest funders is Japan. They have a history of paneling judges who are just people of the community with no specific legal training . Maybe that works for them, but it meant some unqualified judges were sent to the ICC from Japan. The ICC isn’t in a position to stop them, given the funding situation.
IIRC, the International Criminal Court. They accept judges that would be qualified in their home country. With the US stepping out of it, one of the ICC’s biggest funders is Japan. They have a history of paneling judges who are just people of the community with no specific legal training . Maybe that works for them, but it meant some unqualified judges were sent to the ICC from Japan. The ICC isn’t in a position to stop them, given the funding situation.
Magistrate Judges can be literally anyone in the US
In France we you appeal you get judged by other citizens drawed at random. One of the best systems we have
Not trying to be a jerk. Please take this as kindly as it is meant.
The past tense of “draw” is “drawn.” It is an irregular verb in English.
Silly English.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Thanks, Pipey.
Hey! That’s a great scene to remember it by. I’m going to to use this in my lesson about this verb next year. Students will love it.
This didn’t make sense to me until I drew a picture
It’s the difference between past tense, and past participle. “I drew a picture” vs “the picture was drawn”.
Thank you for expanding on my point. “Drawn” is the past participle, which must be used in passive constructions such as the above. “Drew” is simple past tense.
I wonder if that’s one of those things where everyone thought it didn’t need to be codified, because “of course you would select someone qualified”, until modern politics proved that false
In my state, I see that seems to have held true
There is no law or constitutional provision that states that a judge should have a background as a lawyer, but the governor’s Executive Order states the educational and work experience that a successful candidate should have. (No non-lawyer has advanced to become a judge in modern times.)
One of the really notable things about war is that it’s so rare (if you aren’t the US military or else actively engaged in some ongoing conflict), and the rate of people dying and having to be replaced with brand new people is so high, that almost all the time it’s being done for real life-or-death stakes by people who are learning on the job as they go and have no real experience in what they are doing.
A lot of things about military decisions and events don’t completely make sense why they happened the way they do, until you imagine a whole airline being run by people most of whom it’s their first week on the job, and then you say oh okay I get it now; that’s why that happened that way.
Perun (youtuber) sums it up- for many militaries there is no organisational experience in actual conflict, outside the pomp and ceremony it’s hard to tell what substance exists
Jesus yeah I completely believe you.
We don’t have time to train people to make good decisions. Let’s just train them to say, “Yessir!”
It went about how you would expect the hundreds of times I watched it happen.
So what exactly happened?
They attempted to rape them. Frequently. I prevented the ones I was present for.
There’s no barrier? I thought they’d be in a cell with the person watching outside.
It’s a psych hospital with a unit specializing in people with charges, not a prison (where they should have been). If a patient were genuinely suicidal they would need to be immediately accessible to the staff member responsible for preventing it. Additionally, seclusion, even with the legally required assigned observer, requires justification and a doctor’s order in this case, and it’s impossible to justify because seclusion is specifically contraindicated in high suicide risk (see above).
These are all clinical guidelines and often even state regulations that make perfect sense and save a lot of lives in the situations they’re designed for. The issue is that assessing suicidal ideation has to be done almost entirely based on subjective reports of symptoms (internal thoughts), and there are almost no objective outward signs. The only objective outward signs that exist immediately beforehand (previous attempts count as a lifetime risk increase) are prepatory behaviors, and a) the patient typically actively hides those behaviors and b) they’re not assessable immediately in the moment; they have to be caught by regularly and directly observing the patient. Our other option is to start asking suicidal people if they really mean it and/or just kicking them out if they sound enough like they’re lying and to say the least current clinical guidelines do not support that strategy.
It doesn’t take long to learn how to take advantage of such a system if you’re the kind of man that likes assaulting young women. I’ve met a lot of men who struggle to understand the sheer quantity of these men that exist and that often they’re released right back out into the community for a variety of reasons that do and do not make sense but are all perfectly legal.
I also have had a lot of male patients do this now that I no longer work forensics, but there’s less of them and they’re usually not as bold. They’ll usually just take a lot of time dressing and undressing in front of the sitter, walking around the room naked, making inappropriate comments about the sitter’s appearance/ activities they would like to engage in, needling them for personal information, etc and that’s just bothersome because they’re literally trapped with the patient (it would obviously be a firable offense to leave a patient on suicide watch). These are the times I do my best to get a male sitter (assuming the patient isn’t just equal-opportunity, which is fortunately rare), and short of that I just make sure to rotate people through so nobody has to deal with it too much any one shift.
Female patients do so far, far less, but when they do they are usually a bit bolder about it, which can be troublesome. I also generally assign same sex sitters when possible, but I specifically avoid sitting male staff with female patients as much as possible just because unfortunately delusion-based sexual abuse claims are likely to be followed further in that gender combo than vice-versa.
The county coroner is an ELECTED position.
I’m a mortician who’s worked substantially with autopsies. To be the county coroner, you do not need a degree, you do not need experience in mortuary science, postmortem science, forensics, pathology, NOTHING. All you need to be the county coroner, is to be popular.
Meanwhile, funeral directors in the USA need to go through years of college and continuing education, because we’re literally the last line of defense when coroners/doctors screw up. I’ve caught dozens of mistakes the coroner has made and I’m sick of it. The most recently was a shaken and bruised baby having cause of death listed as SIDS.
I no longer blindly trust autopsies for accurate cause of death. If the mortician needs 4 years of medical school, the freaking county coroner would should be required for at LEAST that to be elected.
4 years of medical school and a few years of residency (and maybe fellowship) in pathology. So you’re talking 12 to 16 years of post-high school education because it’s becoming more and more common to have to have a post-bacc or a master’s to get into medical school in the first place.
We have to take additional courses and pass every year, as well as take pandemic response training and mass death psychology/procedure. I even got trained for the ebola outbreak 10 years ago. 2 years of pre-med, 2 years of medical and postmortem science, and a residency which is a minimum of a year, but often longer as it’s based on tasks you have to do. A specified amount of autopsied cases, military cases, decomposition, etc. Then you have to pass your state and LARA exams.
The curriculum included classes for psychology, reconstructive cosmetology, and business law too. I’m a Jill of all trades 😅See, I’m planning on trying to steal your business by going into emergency medicine to be a necromancer. (I have done CPR on people that have actually woken up to complain about it…you cannot convince me that CPR/resuscitation is not necromancy.)
If you want an interesting read, look up cadaveric spasms. I’ve been slapped by a dead body.
… That’s disturbing
I have to admit I often think about sliding into one of these “prestigious but just need to be likeable with no experience” loophole-esque positions…
But instead of acting like I’m “the boss” and pretending to know what I’m talking about while ruining everything, I’d find the best people in the field and make sure I’m listening to them and supporting them in doing their jobs instead.
Just there to keep idiot managers off peoples’ backs and listen to people who actually know what they’re doing.
I imagine that’s “not how it works”…but still.
That’s how it should work.
Sounds like something from the Old Wild West which somehow was never revised.
Lawmakers rarely update laws. Disability(SSI) hasn’t changed since 1974. The medicaid asset limit is $2,000. If you EVER have more than $2k in your bank, you lose your medical insurance and food. You can’t even pay rent/bills for that small amount. If adjusted for inflation, that $2k would be $13k. That’s enough to pay bills, that’s enough to put a deposit down on a home, that’s enough to do some of the things you could do in 1974 with $2k.
I contacted a Michigan representative about this, and was told they keep the asset limits so low so that only the severely destitute get it… but even the severely destitute can’t afford their bills. SSI pays a whopping $11k a YEAR if you’re permanently disabled, even though they can’t work and paid taxes to protect themselves.
I’m a disability advocate, so very passionate about this.
Hey, some places it’s the county Sheriff that’s the coroner… which is also bad.
Sometimes people die in the county jail… and almost every time it’s not needed to perform an autopsy- it’s just natural causes…
The coroner needs to be an impartial medical professional.
It must vary by location. I know I’ve never voted for county coroner. After a little digging, it sounds like my county did away with its elected position over a hundred years ago.
As a slight joke (but only slight), ministers and other positions of power. It’s incredible how poorly qualified some nominated ministers are, over here…
Democracy should allow anyone to run to be elected, but people nominated by the prime minister for specific ministries, should have some degree of education or experience in the field. Until very recently, there was essentially no assessment of skills. Now there are some forms and whatnot, but I still find it very lacking.
For example, we had a minister over 10 years ago that got his Bachelor’s nullified by a court ordering following an investigation of some shady deals with the University.
Making more people, the most complex thing that can be built with unskilled labor.
I’ve always thought it seemed like a design flaw that whole people can be created accidentally.
Thats evolution baby
Nah, that’s baby evolution!
I don’t know if accident is the right word. There is definitely a process that needs to be done for the possibility of a kid to get created. It isn’t like people are just bumping into each other at the grocery store and suddenly they are having kids.
My damn penis slips in vaginas on accident all the damn time. Grocery shopping, golfing, working out, etc… I mean God wot were u thinkin there mate
Cops
Very much depends where you live.
I think it’s just true for the vast majority of countries, unfortunately. A country has to have a lot of things figured out and done right before it can regulate and train its police force so well that its population doesn’t nearly universally agree with the ACAB sentiment. Or at least doesn’t belive they’re all incompetent.
In Sweden (and most European countries?) you need a two year education (1,5 yr theoretical, 0,5 yr field training) before you can work as a police officer. I think in parts of US the training is just a matter of weeks/months, which is very little considering the situations one need to handle.
While Europe is far ahead in terms of training for police, I don’t think even 4 years is enough.
That might lead to competency. We don’t do that here.
It’s 3 years here in Germany. Seems like some cops in the US are little more than hired thugs.
Or a little less.
