Windows 10 EoL is fast approaching, so I thought I’d give Linux a try on some equipment that won’t be able to upgrade to Windows 11. I wanted to see if I will be able to recommend an option to anyone that asks me what they should do with their old PC.
Many years ago I switched to Gentoo Linux to get through collage. I was very anti-MS at the time. I also currently interact with Linux systems regularly although they don’t have a DE and aren’t for general workstation use.
Ubuntu: easy install. Working desktop. Had issues with getting GPU drivers. App Store had apps that would install but not work. The App Store itself kept failing to update itself with an error that it was still running. It couldn’t clear this hurdle after a reboot so I finally killed the process and manually updated from terminal. Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
Mint: easy install. Switching to nvidia drivers worked without issue. App Store had issues with installing some apps due to missing dependencies that it couldn’t install. Some popular apps would install but wouldn’t run. Shutting the laptop closed results in a prompt to shutdown, but never really shuts off. Update process asks me to pick a fast source (why can’t it do this itself?)
Both: installing apps outside of their respective stores is an adventure in terminal instead of a GUI double-click. Secure boot issues. Constant prompt for password instead of a simple PIN or other form of identity verification.
Search results for basic operations require understanding that what works for Ubuntu might not work for Mint.
While I personally could work with either, I don’t see Linux taking any market share from MS or Apple when windows 10 is retired.
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I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?” because the use case is so important to consider.
If you just need a PC to browse the web and consume media then Linux is absolutely fine. This should more or less apply to a large group of users that don’t do anything else with their devices.
Are you a gamer? Then I’d say more or less perfectly fine but it really depends on the games you want to play. Everything with the new, invasive anti-cheat tools doesn’t work (e. g. League of Legends) but smaller, single player, or many multi player games do work at the moment.
Are you a professional or are using otherwise specific software? This is the biggest hurdle I see at the moment. CAD programs for engineering are a big problem for example.
And last but not least: Are you using periphery that needs specific drivers? Printers, audio interfaces, and whatnot. Then you might be out of luck as well if you can’t script.
The last two points are the only ones that would worry me when I won’t have at least one windows machine lying around.
I think there is no general answer to “Is Linux mainstream ready to replace Windows?”
Incorrect. The answer is “No.”
So Linux is fine until you need to print, use software and some other scenarios? Explain that to my niece.
I print and use software all day.
your niece is using ChromeOS or Android and making fun of her uncle for still being on a desktop
Thank you for your bigoted take. You know very well that a) GNU/Linux can print, b) it can “use software” and c) deal with any other scenario.
How tf is that bigoted?
I was paraphrasing…
Using an awful example to showcase it as well.
Like the other dude said, your niece likely only wants to browse Instagram or tiktok… which a fresh install of mint or Ubuntu would work perfectly for.
Your average user isn’t going to go download a seperate browser, they’re just going to use the one pre-installed which… surprise surprise, means everything would work out of the box for a truly ignorant user who can’t help themselves.
Your niece sets her windows pc up herself then or how can I understand your example?
Thats the thing, setting up a windows pc is really easy for the average user Hear me out: They dont have all the expectations and knowledge about different OSses that we have so they just navigate their current system to get to where they need to be or else ask a PC-literate person. No PC-illiterate person was bithered by cortana in the setup process or the games or weather in the startmenu.
A PC-Illiterate person does zero tinkering. They turn on their pc and it works. If distributors shipped computers with Linux, like they did with Windows, it would probably be a better solution for 90% of people who only want to browse the internet, and could care less about all the fancy bloat that windows adds.
You tried Mint yourself. Wouldn’t you agree that setting up mint is exactly as difficult as windows? Only thing is that people aren’t accustomed to it, but it’s hardly more difficult. And those pc-illiteraze users don’t set up their PCs adter all I’d argue. It’s the pc vendor or nephew or whoever that sets up the rig.
Only thing is that it’s unfamiliar, not more difficult. But if that’s the problem, then it’s just ppl not wanting to adapt to anything for the sake of it.
Setup wasn’t evaluated because it’s a one time thing that a normal person wouldn’t need to deal with. It also seems unfair to compare an OS install when Windows is pre-installed.
To be honest, for a fair review I would have to define the “setup” better. For Linux Mint I had to prepare a USB to flash it and mess in the BIOS while all my Win machines came with it installed. But we dont count that I assume. Besides that the initial setup was easier/faster on LM. But then for the most people finding and installing further programms is easier on a Win machine is easier, because many things are already installed. Some things might be bloat for some people but for tech-illiterate people having they might be useful: They already have a mail client (or even two…), the whole office suit (just one login away), hardware that is compatible for sure (even the fingerprint scanner and camera for face-login), and so on. Me personally am bothered by bloat, long startup times, bloat, telemertry and so on like many tech-guys. But then I think to my grandma who opens her old Win10 laptop, then goes to set up her iron-board (for clothes, idk how thats called) because she is used to having old machines. Then she looks at the desktop and clicks the icon with the word “Mail” in it, because all she needs know is that whe wants to check her emails.
So if I set up my old laptop for her, its easier and faster to setup a fresh windows, arrange the already installed icons on the desktop and do the logins for her. With Linux Mint I would have to bother with finding a compatible mailclient. Altho its not really that big of a deal, I admit.
So my conclusion is, maybe 2025 is the year of Linux, when there is a very noob-friendly OS which has at least some “bloat” already installed.
I switched over a year ago and have had zero issues. The lemmings will surely stick with and defend w11, while the people that are tired of being spied on for their data to be better advertised to will move to Linux and realize how bad it was on windows and not believe they didn’t switch sooner.
Thank you for your service o7
I dunno, the only actual issue I’ve had with Mint so far that didn’t just resolve after an update or reinstallation of the offending software (glares at Nvidia drivers) just happened a couple days ago and I pray to Linus I finally did the right thing to fix it:
Decided I didn’t need my old Win10 install anymore and so wiped the drive it was on, partitions and everything, ready to add it as a slower extra drive for Mint.
What I failed to realize in my exhaustion (ADHD script wasn’t renewed, wet blanket withdrawal is fun) was this included the boooooooooot parrrrrtitiiioooooon
Was a bitch and a half to make my install media boot in non-legacy mode for some fucked reason so boot repair was a PITA. Literally was choosing EUFI_OPTION for my install media, but then the media was all “lol bro I’m booted in BIOS legacy ain’t that wild”
Once I fixed that little issue (I’m sure my dumb ass just flipped a switch somewhere without noticing) it was actually an easier fix than Windows boot repair ever was.
The heart attack when my PC just opened to a blank black screen with a cursor blinking, though, whoof. That’s the kind of rush we were made for boys.
Unpopular Opinion: Android is based on the Linux kernel. Almost most “Linux” Android users have never touched a terminal in their life. So the “Year of the Linux Desktop” has quietly happened and most people making redundant posts here on Lemmy :-D
Linux is plenty ready for “most users.” I recently saw a meme that applies here, about experts/enthusiasts overestimating the “average normie” in their field even when they’re trying to account for most people not being on their level.
GPU Drivers, app stores
“Most users” scroll Facebook or Twitter and watch Netflix. Distro comes with firefox? GG. 🤷♂️ While I don’t think its widespread (and hope lol,) ever since the Facebook app integrated a web browser there are people (usually younger iirc) who think Facebook IS the internet. Loads of people almost wouldn’t notice if you switched their os overnight, if they have a desktop/laptop at all.
As for people looking to change to Linux due to MS business decisions, let’s be real - they’re by and large already techies. Its also not the 90s anymore, there are resources abound and SOOOO many users to have your problem before you do.
Personal nitpick for me, nothing to do with OP but the overall sentiment - Using the terminal is NOT THAT BALL CRUSHINGLY HARD as people still make it out to be, certainly not for stuff you may need it for in modern times. I have fedora, I need spotify. “sudo dnf install Spotify” “y” ta da. Certainly not an adventure, IMO.
EDIT: I’m thinking alot of you haven’t used Linux in a long time. I’ve run into an issue before, but people run into issues with windows too and nobody is screeching about that. 🤷♂️ Some of you just straight didn’t read my comment. 🤣
I recently saw a meme that applies here, about experts/enthusiasts overestimating the “average normie” in their field even when they’re trying to account for most people not being on their level.
Yeah, and if you think that “most users” are ready for linux, you’re in that meme.
Normal people don’t want to touch the terminal at all.
Your post misses the entire point.
While us nerds can work out problems and use a terminal, it doesn’t mean we’re happy to spend our time trouble shooting instead of actually getting shit done.
And the fact that so many of these basic issues should exist in the first place leaves one with the sour taste that they have to hold the OS’s hand forever.
You really have no clue how inept “most users” are. I’d be extremely surprised if even 20% of the population would be able to use Linux without getting extremely frustrated at the first error, and unable to fix anything themselves.
A lot of these issues can probably be solved in one of two ways:
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Buy a computer from a company that sells Linux computers. Hardware issues should be nonexistent, and sometimes there’s even a customized DE that smoothes out package installation.
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Have a friend help you get up and running. I’ve given out a few Mint machines lately, and I always boot it up and preconfigure some stuff before I hand it over.
Generally, I think most modern distros are well within the capability of anyone brave and savvy enough to flash a USB drive and boot their computer from it. If they don’t have that level of technical skill, that’s okay, but then I’d say pick from the two options above.
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I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion in general. (If you ignore the Lemmy Linux echo chamber).
As a full-time Linux user and evangelist, I agree that it’s not ready for most users. Just too many issues and idiosyncrasies. Mostly bugs and hardware incompatibility things. Also way too easy to break your system.
Personally, I think we reached the point where most users would be fine. Once they switch, then the more professional applications will come.
I wish Tumbleweed would be used more. It’s easy to install (but the installer is being rewritten anyways). Also, I have updated it on a laptop that was 2 years behind (because of lack of use). It updated perfectly and even proprietary software like Zoom just worked.
2023 was the year of the Linux Desktop. Wayland + pipewire gives us a base to have modern features but it took a long time to reach this point.
Dude most users don’t even know what a web browser is let alone package managers or driver maintenance.
Yes, but same applies on windows. Window still needs to be maintained as well.
All you’ve got to do is shut it down and it’ll ask if you want to update.
I switched my desktop to KDE Neon and I’ve been enjoying it. Does it have some minor issues and rough edges? Yup. But I think Windows also has some things it handles poorly that people have just learned to cope with so well they forget about them and paint it as the “perfect” OS that always “just works” and expect Linux to live up to that unrealistic standard.
When I built my Windows 10 PC I had to manually install a ton of drivers, including the network card which is the biggest pain, then go into the registry to disable a bunch of “features”. Some user friendly OS. 🤷
No network card found, would you like to go online and download drivers for the LAN card?
1997 was the year of Linux on the desktop.
Also 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023
2024 baby! I can feel it.
This will be the millenium of the Linux desktop!
Have you tried popos?
No, and I will now.
an adventure in terminal
That I do not understand. With APT, it’s usually a single installation command for any kind of software packaged by the distribution. An adventure would in that case translate to a one-liner by your standards?
Any problem that breaks the GUI version to such a degree that the user must resort to using the terminal is a problem. You and I may be content to use the terminal – hell, I tend to prefer it over most GUi options – but that doesn’t mean your average user will be happy to do so.
I would be surprised if 5% of the people that use a computer at all know how to work a CLI of any form.
Additionally, when you get a response from the command that the dependencies failed to install, what is the typical computer operator expected to do? They are already far outside of their abilities at this point.
Anti-libre software forcing us to click through 69 boxes to fail without showing any error while banning us from sharing fixes source code, banning us from fixing the problem, is so much better. I would be surprised if 0.00001% can’t open terminal, type three words and press enter.
I know jack and shit about Linux, but my laptop running Mint has happily taken every computer job, except for recording music, from my win10 desktop. I have opened the terminal exactly 0 times. There’s a flatpack for everything I have desired so far. oS geekness is not needed to run Linux. As I get used to the available music software I will have no further need of ms windows.
In other news, apples not yet ready to replace oranges.
Overall, can’t recommend this to a normal user.
How do you know you are not an abnormal user?
Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.
Because I’ve been working with the Normal Users for 20 years.
I should think that would make you very much not a “normal” user
I’m not. But I know how normal users operate, which is the point of this post.
I think you’re massively overestimating what normal users are willing to do. Normal users aren’t going to install Linux because normal users don’t install operating systems. Other things normal users don’t do:
- Install drivers
- Configure hardware (including printers)
- Run system recovery
- Run OS upgrades (unless forced on them)
When the upgrade from windows 7 to 10 resulted in broken systems/applications, some normal users paid someone to fix it, but most bought a new computer.
In short, Linux is ready to replace Windows, but only in the cases where it’s sold preinstalled on supported hardware. Android, ChromeOS and Steamdecks are good examples of this.
You’ve hit on a good point, which is that the steam deck is an abnormal success in this space.
But you’ve also missed a point. The install of the OS wasn’t being evaluated. Daily use was.
The daily use thing isn’t going to be an issue because things like drivers and dependencies would be sorted out for end users on a machine thst is being manufactured and sold
