except democrats dont care either
start building a new system now.
you’re gonna wanna skip the polls and start buying arms now if that’s your plan
i cant do that by myself. the rest of the people has to recognize the system is broken too.
You also can’t do it if the backslide into full totalitarian fascism reaches the “first they came for the socialists” line in the poem.
totalitarian fascism is already there, the crackdowns on the university protests are looking a lot like it. violence towards the protesters, a pat on the head on the fascist counterprotesters.
and honestly its looking a lot like trump will win anyway, at least that is what the polls are looking like.
we should be bracing for impact.
edit: how could i forget the treatment the us gives to the third world.
totalitarian fascism is already there
Fucking lmao
Imagine my surprise when the election comes and goes, one way or another, and these online revolutionaries continue to do… nothing of substance. Just like 4 years ago, and the 4 years before that, and…
i’m all for forcibly restructuring society, but yeah… we know these people will do nothing.
see the university protests and unionization if you want an example in the us. we are organizing protests and actions, but doing systemic change is a collective endeavour.
we actually need much more people to recognize its broken and be willing to help. that wont happen if all you do is begrudingly accept the progressively worsening lesser evils.
We don’t have a minimum wage in Sweden. Wages are mostly dictated by negotiations between employers and unions.
Unions are important.
thats also the reason the ones in power hate them so much!
unions are definetly part of the solution.
Yeah. We have an ongoing thing between Tesla and IF Metall, with a bunch of other unions backing them up. Tesla refuses to sign collective labour agreements, and they’re penalising strikers by taking away stocks they’ve earned. It’s hardly surprising that Tesla doesn’t want to adhere to the Swedish model.
if they dont want to attend to the workers demands in sweden they can get fucked.
Fight for a better system but still vote democrats. Voting for the lesser evil gives you the lesser evil.
i agree, but at the point a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil, its way past time.
If young adults consistently and reliably voted at all, we wouldn’t be in a position choosing between this and seeing what “Israel should finish the job” means.
Wouldn’t raising minimal wage just raise prices higher without dealing with the underlying problems?
Prices are already getting higher, and we don’t have other solutions.
In Australia, minimum wage is quite high and so are the costs of many goods, but things like Amazon and flight tickets are much cheaper comparatively
That doesn’t answer my question. Prices might be high, but when you just give people more money, they will grow higher. Why wouldn’t they?
That’s just greed. They’re doing that already. Prices right now are crazy high, BUT guess what else is? PROFITS. Record profits everywhere. That shit should be illegal.
Are the record profits still record after being adjusted for inflation?
Money is worth less now than it was this time last year.
Let’s say a profit of $1000 last year is equivalent to a profit of $1200 this year.
Have you made $200 more this year? Well, technically yes but it doesn’t quite have the same purchasing power as it would have if you made it last year instead
You forget that dems vote against it as well: Kyrsten Sinema, Joe Manchin, Jeanne Shaheen, Maggie Hassan, Jon Tester, Tom Carper, Chris Coons, Angus King…
You also forget that a $15/hour minimum wage isn’t even a living wage in current year and that’s what they voted against. Both sides fight for billionaires, stop deluding yourself.
Ah the DINOs. Well two are out at least.
Both sides fight for billionaires, stop deluding yourself.
Nobody’s deluding themselves. I’m pretty sure we all know full well that both sides fight for billionaires, it’s a question of degree and that degree matters. Is $15/hr more or less than $7.25/hr?
IOW, it’s a start… it’s progress. I get that the progress is frustratingly slow. But once you have $15/hr you can keep incrementing it, especially at the state level.
Is $15/hr more or less than $7.25/hr?
Considering the former ain’t fucking happening because Democrats voted with Republicans, your question is irrelevant.
Considering the former ain’t fucking happening because Democrats voted with Republicans, your question is irrelevant.
Which bill are you referring to precisely? The Raise the Wage Act of 2019 was passed by the House but not taken up by the Senate, which at the time had an R majority. The 2021 “American Rescue Plan” bill had an amendment added by Sanders to raise the FMW to $15 but this was removed because it wouldn’t have passed otherwise. An important distinction here is that a number of the 8 democrats who voted to remove the amendment were doing so so that the pandemic relief part could pass. Their various reasons are outlined here. The amendment was a bit of a hail mary that few expected to even make it for purely procedural reasons. So this was a compromise… it wasn’t saying “we democrats don’t want a FMW increase”. There are a couple of DINOs that think that, sure, but two of them are going away.
There are other options here, such as HR 603 (2021-22) which hasn’t been taken up yet. Some dems oppose this because it takes too long to get to $15/hr. But of course we need a house majority to make any progress on that.
And notably, Biden via EO raised the minimum wage for federal workers to $15/hr.
The fight isn’t over. But if anything this just underlines the need for stronger majorities. Throwing up your hands and giving in because it didn’t happen right away is, well, not helpful.
The 2021 “American Rescue Plan” bill had an amendment added by Sanders to raise the FMW to $15 but this was removed because it wouldn’t have passed otherwise.
Because one unelected bureaucrat said so.
Their various reasons are outlined here.
Count the republican talking points about the minimum wage in that link.
It’s always some technicality or detail that forms a se master plan. No, they voted to remove it unlike everyone else.
You don’t understand how the American political system works. Full stop.
I understand people are suffering because there are always enough votes against workers.
I understand people are suffering because there are always enough votes against workers.
This is true. But is this where your understand of the American political system begins and ends?
You don’t understand how we stop living under the whims of a broken system. By fixating these details completely divorced from the actual helping of others you are prepetuating that those details matter. You are lost and you have no idea what matters.
You don’t understand how we stop living under the whims of a broken system.
Enlighten me.
You are lost and you have no idea what matters.
No really, educate me.
Video evidence of a democrat voting down a minimum wage increase.
And somehow there always seems to be just enough of these “mOdErAteS” to kneecap a Democratic majority from doing what they promised when they get power.
Must be a coincidence 🤔
It’s why big business donates to both parties. Even democrats can be fooled by the corporate propaganda and they all got fundraising targets to meet if they want to keep their seat.
That’s usually how most narrow majorities work. Conspiratorial thinking doesn’t help push forward a progressive agenda.
It’s how things worked when they had a super majority too and backed off on legislating abortion rights.
The same Dem everyone dragged for being a Dem in name only almost as soon as she started voting dogshit completely contrary to what she ran on? The same Dem who literally left the party because she was never anything more than a corporate shill too corrupt even for the milquetoast neoliberals in the Democratic Party?
There is a mentality from Boomers and passed along to Gen X that full-time work does not entitle you to anything. That there are just millions of jobs in America that shouldn’t be required to pay people enough to live in the community they work, or anywhere for that matter. As long as that mentality aligns with the goals of capitalism, nothing will change.
You will hear all the excuses in the world justifying low-paying jobs. “Just get a better job if you don’t like the pay” “Those jobs are only for high school kids” “If they raise the pay they will raise the prices” The list goes on. None of them make a ton of sense if you explore the idea any further.
The idea of working hard and being, eventually, rewarded with good pay has been dead for decades. It is widely accepted that the easiest way to increase your pay is moving to a different company, which speaks a lot about longevity in this late-stage capitalism era most of us are living in today.
It’s pretty funny to me to see Americans claiming that a full-time job should be sufficient to have your basic needs met - as if the unemployed should live in dire poverty.
I would fully support some kind of UBI or someway to ensure that those who can’t work can live semi-independent lives. But in order for there to be money to support that system, a majority of people do have to work.
The alternative is some kind of utopian society that has yet to exist. If we make it to Star Trek and not Blade Runner I will fully embrace the idea that everyone can have all of their needs covered without the requirement for others to indirectly support that through labor and taxes. But until then, improving workers ability to support themselves also improves the ability to support those who cannot.
Where I’m from there has been a minimum income guarantee since 1965. In fact, the constitution says the government should ensure every resident has sufficient income to live. A single-person household with someone who is permanently unemployed receives about $1500 per month (you receive additional money per child). This is the lowest income a legal resident is allowed to have. Every rich European country has a similar system, though most opt to cover rent for the poorest, and give a smaller amount for the remaining expenses.
It turns out that willingness to work isn’t an issue, because most people don’t actually like to do nothing. The employment rate is far higher than in the US.
I agree that people sbould be able to live comfortably with their job, even a low skill one. But the idea that raising wages will mean increase prices does check out though. That, or people with higher skill jobs will be paid less and then they will be the ones to suffer the most.
Imo, we should aim to make things more efficient, thus cheaper because they actually became cheaper. E.g. solving the housing crisis => cheaper rent. Public healthcare => cheaper healthcare. Better schools => better citizens that leave less trash around => less expensive trash management. More public transport, less need to buy or do maintenance to a car etc. And so on and so forth.
Minimum wages can’t fix this problem (they can fix others), they’re just a bandaid on a severed limb.
This is how brainwashed capitalism has made us. In a society that is purely driven by money the thought that giving people their fair share means my prices might increase. Instead, we should fix every societal problem first before doing the one thing that would actually work.
We have record inflation now, is it because major cities have passed $15+ minimum wage? Not at all, not even a little. Further proof that a pandemic has a thousand times more influence than simply paying people more.
Oh and the horrible thought a “high” skilled laborer might be paid less shudder. Like a doctor might only get paid $90k instead of $150k. How could they survive!?
What other convenient tropes should we trot out to disfranchise the only real solution of just paying people what they deserve. Oh that’s right they don’t deserve it because they are lazy or low-skilled or any of the other bullshit excuses we have been force fed our entire lives.
Eh I think you missed my point entirely. And, by the way, being a doctor is simply put very hard, that’s why they’re paid more than people who flip burgers who just flip burgers, and doctors are also rarer and I believe you want to have a good doctor don’t you? Because he’s simply going to get up and leave to another place where he is paid properly if you don’t pay him a good wage. Also, you don’t make any actual good points in your long answer.
Pleaso go study economics. Thank you.
I didn’t miss your point because it was sophomoric in nature and therefore underdeveloped. Your belief in the meritocracy just shows how ridiculously brainwashed you are. It is okay, most of us are one way or another I suppose.
Society might not be meritocratic, but at the end of the day life is… You’re just bitter you don’t deserve better.
You are really reaching there Mr. I buy the rhetoric hook line and sinker. It is clear who is bitter here and it is not the accomplished father of four who owns a million dollar house. Good talking with you.
It is not what you own that makes you an accomplished person
When the minimum wage is not livable, you subsidize their employers with your taxes.
It’s not the minimum wage people should get. It’s the minimum we’ll accept
And “blue no matter who” means we accept people who think it doesn’t need raised
The alternative to not voting blue in general elections is not socialism, it’s republicans.
No it’s not, it’s taking control of the party back from the people that only care about donors.
It’s a private organization, but they haven’t always had the keys, it’s like a HOA.
When it’s good, no one cares who’s in charge, so shitty people sneak in.
The shitty people make things shitty, people accept it because the shits stacks up slowly.
Then one day they’re tired of it, and they have to wait till the next HOA board vote to replace them.
It’s not as easy to replace the people leading the DNC, but it’s doable.
So if 3rd party is something you think can’t happen, are you working on fixing your own party? Are you fighting to replace them?
Do you know any of their names without googling?
If your idea of taking the party back is “voting independent in the general” I think you have absolutely no idea how elections and parties work. You’re throwing your vote away. You wanna change the party? Run in or work for local elections. Build from the bottom up, not the top down.
Or just whine and throw your vote away.
Or just whine and throw your vote away.
What is hard to understand about this?
The way to get the most votes is a younger progressive candidate.
How is saying the party should get as much votes as possible “whining”?
Is it because a younger progressive candidate isn’t who you want?
Tough shit
40% of the electorate is gen Z or Millenials.
And the majority of over 45 wants trump
You’re arguing against doing what the bulk of the Dem party wants, but some how I’m the one whining for wanting better than a coin flip chance to deal with trump anymore?
What the fuck is the logic you’re using for this shit?
No it’s because voting for a progressive third party candidate in the general election for federal office
- doesn’t work
- benefits republicans
- is the prevailing wisdom of people like you
It’s mastubatory whining. You get to claim that anyone who cares about actual outcomes is somehow less pure than you while you are absolved of any of the responsibilities of your vote. You wanna pretend voting third party for president helps? Bully for you. It fucking doesn’t help progressives, it helped Trump get elected and it will do it again.
You get to claim that anyone who cares about actual outcomes is somehow less pure than you
That’s not the discussion.
The discussion is a younger more progressive candidate is what the base wants, so why aren’t we giving it to them?
40% of this electorate is either Gen Z or Millenial.
And over 45 years old is going to trump.
So why isn’t the DNC going after all those voters so that we can beat Trump?
Stop thinking about if you’re right and how people under 40 are “whining” and start thinking about the best way to beat Trump:
Running a popular candidate. Whether that means Biden starts listening to his voters and becomes more popular, or running someone less than 20 years over retirement age.
I just don’t understand the logic of:
This demographic wants progress, but fuck em we control the party so they have to vote for us. It would be crazy for us to give them what they want and guarantee victory. So we’ll call them babies and blame them when our unpopular candidates loses.
If moderates are the “adults in the room” why are they the ones who won’t entertain the idea of voting for something a little different they want if it guarantees victory?
Why not just do that?
You seem to be getting down voted a lot for this comment, but I absolutely agree. The long term solution is to fix the DNC by replacing the corporate schills with progressives. In a city in NH in 2016 we were able to completely replace the local Democratic party with our people. It’s not even that hard, like 50 people vote in those elections.
Everyone should find out who runs their local and state Dems, and start working to replace them if they are garbage. Once the local and state chapters are taken over it won’t be hard to take the DNC
Except the party wants as little turnout as possible in the general
It’s why they started saying Biden was the winner a good 5 months before the convention and only a handful.of.primaties had happened.
Its why the stole NH’ delegates for voting progressive.
If people could show up and say who they want for president, then theyd vote down ballot tok.
The Dem party isn’t for us, it’s to take advantage of us
But it wasn’t always, and doesn’t have to keep being that way.
But I’m barely old enough to remember when it wasn’t
They certainly only want people who are going to vote for them to turn up.
I’m not sure what you mean by stole NH delegates.
I wish more people would vote down ballot. Rs almost always vote top to bottom of the ticket, Ds tend to only vote for names they’ve heard of. That’s why Republicans have taken control of so much local government. Democrats need to win the presidential race by a huge margin for enough of it to trickle down to local stuff.
Yes, the current DNC is there to work for the rich, just like the RNC. If we took over the party though, we could make it do whatever we wanted.
I’m not sure what you mean by stole NH delegates.
…
When the party took away NHs say in the Dem primary for something only their Republican state government can control.
I mean. Technically NH Dems could violated state law to keep the DNC happy like they asked, are you saying that’s what they should have done?
Because the most common sense explanation is they were made NH kept rejecting moderates like Clinton and Biden.
If we took over the party though, we could make it do whatever we wanted.
Which is what I’m saying to do, and if you haven’t noticed, the more we vote “blue no matter who” the more conservative candidates we get.
Because the DNC thinks anything left of republicans have to vote for them. From that misguided assumption. The party keeps moving right
It’s not working, it’s never worked, and to keep trying it would be fucking insanity.
Yet here we are.
If we are really willing to sacrifice anything to stop trump, why won’t Joe Biden and the DNC sacrifice anything they want?
Why do millions and millions of voters have to vote for someone they don’t want? Why can’t we run someone that agrees with the party platform and will work towards?
The party isn’t the important part, voters are. No matter how much either party tells you differently.
A general election is still about votes
This thread is chock full of idiots who would vote to lower their own wages because of a spectacular misunderstanding of how inflation works.
Either that or trolls looking to encourage others to fight against raising their own wages.
Either way, it’s sickening.
Yep. Time to drop the uniparty. Vote TRUMP 2024!
The fuck you doing on Lemmy, you little bitch?
Republicans can’t be on Lemmy? I know it’s mostly Dems on here, but diversity and differing views is a good sign for the platform
I don’t want those assholes here.
You sure can, but don’t start crying when you’re constantly being shitted on for supporting the orange piece of shit. Either way, they offer nothing of value to any conversation other than stupidity, hateful rhetoric, and Donnie. So they can fuck right off.
Why don’t states with Dem majorities raise the local wage to match housing costs?
Washington State, New York, Minnesota… none of these states have escaped this problem.
Seattle’s minimum wage is currently $19.97/hr. Why are you whining about placed that have already raised their minimum wage by a lot?
So, honest question that comes of my own ignorance. Is a minimum wage supposed to be livable? I always figured minimum wage jobs were for people like teens who didn’t need to afford housing.
I always figured minimum wage jobs were for people like teens who didn’t need to afford housing.
Nothing in min wage law adjusts your wages based on whether or not you’re someone else’s dependent.
“Supposed to be” in whose opinion?
It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By “business” I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.
-Franklin Delano Roosevelt, making his intentions pretty clear.
Yea so that’s the argument that people who don’t agree with making a liveable wage give. In reality there is just a great group of people who are only eligible for minimum wage or close to minimum wage jobs. So a fair bit of adults that are even trying to support their children.
So I think we can all agree that especially if 2 parents are working 40 hours a week should be able to at least live a decent life in a Western country. And that’s mainly in to question here. For teens you could always have a lower minimum wage until they’re older. As they have in plenty countries.
Does this address your question properly?
8 members of the Democratic caucus in the senate hate workers so much that they voted against increasing the minimum wage.
Pretending that anyone who notices is "both sides"ing is insulting to the workers Democrats said they totally wanted to help and then betrayed.
The party expects perfect lockstep from the electorate, but doesn’t care about voting with the party when it comes time for the elected to do what we voted them in for.
They don’t expect perfect lockstep from the electorate, they don’t even expect 41 out of 48 voters like they voted. They have literally never gotten it either.
They don’t expect perfect lockstep from the electorate
Vote blue no matter who.
Just checking here, what percentage of blue representatives voted for and what percentage of red representatives voted for? I think that’s where you’ll find the answer for why you vote blue no matter who, because people’s lives are on the line, not because they’re perfect. Then you harass that blue candidate, 'cause fuck those centrists. Still better than the fascists in the far right, though.
Nice diversion. I answered your question about Democrats demanding lockstep behind even their shittiest anti-worker candidates.
I never asked you a question.
Because the alternative is fascists, you dunce. You can’t move the needle left if there’s no needle. Vote blue no matter who has to do with not letting fascists take away our rights and kill women who need abortions.
It’s not Democrats asking you to vote blue no matter who, it’s your fellow Americans who don’t want a fascist takeover. It’s common sense that shouldn’t even need a slogan.
You can’t move the needle left if there’s no needle.
You don’t move the needle by being content, either. Which is why centrists are so fucking angry at people who aren’t pleased as fucking punch at all the deliberate failure of the second worst party.
That’s why I wrote this
Then you harass that blue candidate
We have three powers of control over politicians
-
vote
-
protest
-
media
That’s why they work so hard to take away, delegitimize or sow distrust in those powers. You want to move the needle left, you vote as left as possible and protest and harass them until they do what you want.
-
You keep saying “Democrats” and “the party”
Tell me, which party was it that voted in pefect lock step against? Surely by your statements it’s the Democrats…
Oh? It’s not?
Only 8 of the 48 Democrats voted against it?
Well fiddly fee fuck me it sure seems both sides are the same and every Democrat hates workers and would never vote yes for a minimum wage increase
I didn’t vote for Republicans.
I’m not being told that voting for more Republicans will totally get a minimum wage increase passed.
We gave Democrats a majority. They found enough no votes. It’s what they do. In order to overcome the votes of those eight plus all Republicans we would need 59 Democrats in the Senate. And may as well make that an even 60 because Democrats won’t ever get rid of the filibuster.
Of course both sides aren’t the same; that’s just something centrists say when people criticize Democrats in any way at all, because it’s easier than defending the party’s deliberate uselessness.
You guys are atleast at the “both sides”. My people are fully convinced(brain washed) that far right is the only way.
“Both sides” is a position taken only by edgy idiots who are too lazy to do an iota of research.
“Both sides” is a strawman argument employed by people who like the status quo against people who are discontent with same.
And nothing else.
US has the cheapest houses in the world, the fuck are you taking about?
Alright, fuck Republicans, I’m onboard with that.
Living wage, I’m onboard with that too.
Fuck landlords as well, I’m waay onboard with that.
How about we raise minimum wage, but also regulate the hell out of several sectors so that the wealthy don’t just consume whatever we raise it to with obscene inflation, otherwise what’s the point?
I had to scroll to the bottom to see this. This is what happens every time the wage increases. No point in increasing the wage when everyone else increases the price. Can’t agree with your statement more.
No need to increase prices if you convert all employees to perma-lancers and then eventually outsource the labor to another country.
Also, this article is written by a Wall Street trader and frequently says things like “A strong cohort of economists believe a national minimum wage increases inflation.” I’m not sure if this is the slam dunk you think it is. I’m not even against raising the minimum wage, but worker protections have to be done at the same time or else something’s got to give, and it’s not going to be profit.
The prices are rising without a matching increase in wages. The increase in wages has no significant impact on the increase in prices.
It’s just about chasing a never ending profit that’s higher than last quarter’s profit. It was never about inflation, it’s the cancer that is unregulated capitalism.
Okay, but when you’re done griping about the inefficiency of humanity, we have some immediate solutions to immediate problems and all we need is some people to be on board and participate in good faith.
Did you just make a bunch of shit up pretending I said it?
No, I accused you of griping about the inefficiency of humanity. I’ll add some commas to make it easier for you.
Then you wouldn’t mind quoting me and explaining your moronic self. Show me where the bad comment hurt your feefees.
If there truly were no point then it wouldn’t have so much opposition from the wealthy.
You mean those guys who raise the price afterwards?
Those guys who raise the price regardless of what happens.
Yeah, those guys - which is why there should be a limit on what those guys can and cannot do. Which is what’s being discussed.
Increasing the minimum wage is being discussed.
Pretending that inflation is caused by wage increases as an excuse to never raise the minimum wage is what Republicans do.
No, I responded to someone’s comment within this post, and that’s what is being discussed. And they, and myself, are for increased minimum wage, he said it plainly and I said I agreed with him. I also agreed that we should have restrictions placed to prevent the rich from increasing prices on everything else just because the wealthy know that everyone got a base raise. I never said inflation is caused by a wage increase, you came to that conclusion on your own. Republicans also dislike restrictions on the wealthy, which it sounds like you’re not a fan of it either…are you a Republican?
There is no correlation between wage increases and inflation. Firms will charge consumers the highest number that they can to reach supply:demand equilibrium already, if they could charge more then they would regardless of how much poor people get paid.
The actual effect of wage increase is a negative correlation with wealth concentration and a higher money velocity, and in some cases a lower number of jobs, but the good outweighs the bad.
Do you have a source for these findings? Because the last 20 years I’ve lived through minimum wage increases, each time it led to the increase in the cost of living.
Ah yes, all of those federal minimum wage increases in the last 20 years. The many great examples such as the raise to $7.25 in 2009 and also the uh… erm… No, that’s it, actually.
Then the average Price of Goods fell for the next 3 consecutive years. Also, the inflation rate from 2005-2009 was 13.24% while the rate from 2008-2012 was 8.77% according to that same consumer price index data, you can use a calculator for it HERE.
So either Wage Increases decrease inflation and cause prices of goods to fall, or it has no measurable effect in the face of many factors which do actually affect those things.
I’m simply asking for a source and your reaction is to be a dick? Smooth. Also, you’re only referring to the federal wage increase. States have had their own minimum wage increases throughout the years and each time, the cost of goods would rise, causing the boost in minimum wage to fall flat eventually - and that’s what the original guy was referring to.
We gonna let passage of broader more difficult to pass reform be a prerequisite for increasing the minimum wage?
Sounds like making the perfect the enemy of the good to me.
if you want affordable housing we need to de-commodify it and get the investors out. no more airbnb, no more one investor group owning 10s of thousands of single family homes. Dumping regular people’s money into this system, even if we give them a bunch extra, is only gonna drive prices even further up. The necessities of living are not speculation opportunities for the ultra rich.
