Counterpoint: Single issue voters got Roe overturned
Wtf, who is upvoting this, this is alarming
I strongly suspect that most of the people on the left are also carrying all the signs on the right
And that the person writing the cartoon is planning move on to targeting the next-least-acceptable sign from the pile on the right, as soon as the one on the left is dealt with. This thing of slicing off segments of dissenting opinion to shut them down one at a time, in separation from their natural cohort of supporting allies, by driving wedges in between them, is fairly normal “advanced fascism from people who know how to get it done on the ground” tactics.
I don’t think it’s trying to slice off segments of dissenting opinion so much as highlighting the all or nothing nature of single issue voters.
Yeah. I guess I should have paid more attention to the title – applying it to a “single issue voter” (or, non-voter, I guess) who really is throwing all the stuff on the right in the garbage, in the (incorrect) belief that they’re helping the Palestinians, when in reality they’re just threatening to make things worse for literally everybody, makes sense.
I just don’t think that’s most of the people in the tents or carrying the signs. If they had constructed the cartoon to attack all the people on Lemmy who don’t want to vote because Biden personally killed all those Gazans and loves that the war is happening, or whatever they are claiming is happening, then that makes sense. But attacking the protestors themselves seems wrong.
Yeah I think
OPthe artist is doing kind of a visual strawman here, as also mentioned by this person.I don’t see evidence at all that any significant number of pro-Palestine individuals are single issue voters. Someone made a claim that 3% of democratic voters were single issue, but upon inquiry it turned out to be without source, and that the true number is less than 2% of all voters at the very absolute most.
As of now, I need more evidence to disprove my belief that this post is just an outrageously patronizing false generalization of the pro-Palestine movement.
You will have difficulty finding that evidence, I think
how do you mean? (/gen as in it would be hard to poll? or that the evidence doesn’t exist? sorry im dense sometimes)
Meaning that you likely can’t find that evidence, because the post is indeed an outrageously patronizing false generalization etc etc. 🙂
slay tyvm 💅
I agree, I am not the artist, but I posted this as a criticism of those who say they’ll vote third party.
The “most” is not the subject. It’s the few who are single topic voters.
Palestinian supporters make up a tiny, insignificant portion of single issue voters.
Something like 3% of democratic voters. Which would be a margin they could afford to lose if not for the electoral college.
Can I get the citation for this number? Thanks 😊
edit: their citation is non-convincing, so careful about upvoting this because it confirms your biases! scroll down under my comment to see more :)
I had heard it from this video, but she doesn’t cite her source. Gallup says war in the middle east is cited as the most important issue by 2% of voters.
ok boo a citation with no citation i don’t believe 🍅🍅🍅 thanks for your response tho
and i would guess that single issue voters for Palestine are a non-total subset of that two percent. so. yeah. without further evidence your comment didn’t really counter the top comment.
Anyone who operates such that they’re X until the issue of Israel comes up is a single issue partisan too, they’re just better at hiding it.
Biden can stop the genocide but not only chooses not to at the risk of losing the election, but enables Israel to commit more violence and war crimes.
You SHOULD vote for Joe, but fucking hell this is HIS fault. Voters are a swirling mass of people. It might as well be fluid dynamics. Bad policies and apathy WILL affect support. It’s going to. You can’t stop it. You can’t shame it back again either. You can’t win back tent guy’s vote by blaming him for Joe Biden’s failures.
Engage with politics at the Congressional and local level. The biggest reason Biden refuses to change his stance because Congress and a majority of his constituency still supports it.
So please continue to protest and engage your congressman and local officials. We can change this but we need action.
Write your congressman if they are one of the members that forced the weapon shipments to restart.
In this case Joe Biden did not want to restart shipments but was forced by a Congressional resolution.
Here is a Reuters article covering the resolution, here is the house press release, here is the Congressional voting record.
If the issue of genocide isn’t listened to what indication is there any of those other issues will be?
Something to think about–and what many of these college kids who are likely only able to vote for the first time are experiencing.
If genocide is the only thing you’ll listen to then you’ll be the last person anyone facing all the rest will consider an ally until their problems escalate to genocide.
I’m sorry, what? I run in anarchist circles. Most that I have met would rather see Cornel win. If Trump won, they’re going to be the “armed antifa” showing up to protect drag story hours.
Wow, look at all those issues democrats won’t actually do anything about, they’ll just let republicans destroy those things so they can scream about them to get votes and continue to do nothing about them.
Oh, and democrats support genocide. No amount of whataboutism should disguise the fact that democrats are deep throating a genocidal apartheid ethnostate led by far-right war criminals.
Thank you for your well-researched and very-nuanced view, I hope you enjoy Donald “They’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.” Trump’s next term, 2024-20??
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are… you talking about the elected officials, or the people who elect them?
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But they … DO something about this issue in-between elections. They are protesting and demanding the Biden administration to change their course. That is political action. What else are they supposed to do? Anything other than playing with the political power that’s left to them?
Everybody against those demanding a harder approach against Netanjahu’s genocidal campaign and threatening their votes is talking about how these people have to save democracy by voting Biden regardless of what he’s doing. Well, isn’t that part of a democracy?
Of course it’s part of a democracy. But the point everyone’s making is that it’s a very dumb thing to do because it’s likely to reduce your democratic power in the future.
Is the president not at fault at all when he doesn’t change his course? Also a majority of people seem to favor a ceasefire. Why not at least for campaign purposes actually enforce a ceasefire from Netanyahu?
How do you think we got trump in the first place? The awfulness of the republican party did not begin with him and will not end with him, but the whole time democrats have insisted that we need a republican party. It’s a tag team play that ends in fascism regardless. If trump is beaten, the next bogeyman will be there for democrats to point at and claim “we just need to beat this one guy and then we’ll work on issues you care about, we swear” yet again.
Lemmy.world is pro genocide
Can we stop being the repost home of r/politicalhumor shitty memes?
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If the other guy being a fascist running on a platform of doing fascism isn’t enough for you to snap into line, you’re a fascist trying to feel moral about being a fascist.
Trump is denying the existence of the 13th and 19th amendments now and you’re actually still on about how politicians should have to “earn your vote?”
Tell me you’re white without telling me you’re white.
Tell me you’re white without telling me you’re white.
You know that upholding and extending this system that props up white supremacy and imperialism hurts POC around the world, right? If you’re willing to tacitly support a genocide because you can’t imagine doing anything other than fill in a bubble at the voting booth, those amendments are already as good as gone. If those amendments are essentially voided, do you plan on just standing by to let it happen? The shitty people who want power know you’re willing to sign off on heinous things if the alternative is worse. The marginalized will continue to fight, die, and become martyrs in history book while people like you would rather act out of fear (justified or not) and let the marginalized fight the same deadly status quo that keeps you comfortable and keeps them threatened.
Justified or not
Tell me you’re white without telling me you’re white.
See also the part where you compared being able to make a comparative harm judgement to “the right to not be owned by another person and the right to vote while woman might as well not exist anymore!”
Oh, so you didn’t catch that I was comparing your justified terror with republicans’ unjustified terror and how easily you can both be convinced to do terrible things.
If you don’t vote for Biden, in our system, you are tacitly supporting Trump. You’re a fool if you think that Trump will do better, by any measure. Please don’t be stupid.
If dems arent seriously campaining NOW about how to fix said system, then we will have to worry about the next election, and the next one.
I get fixing stuff is hard, hut Democrats would rather run on fear of the other guys than prevent the other guys from coming so close to power.
The only thing I’ll add is that like 3 of those signs are controlled by the Supreme Court. Which became crazy specifically because people didn’t listen to everyone who said Donald Trump would be the worst president this country has ever had and would flip everything for himself. There’s no way outside of enlarging the Supreme Court, forcing them to put term limits on themselves, and potentially calling a new constitutional congress that could change those things. Having democrats in control of the three branches means nothing if it only happens for 2 years every 78 moon cycles and only when 5/8 planets are in alignment while 3 exists in off-axis parallel (or some weird astrology bullshit).
Having Democrats in control of the entire government means nothing when they are too concerned about being fair and playing nicely with Republicans to move their agenda forward.
With how one-sided and not-thought-out-well this comic is, I can’t help but come with this point:
Does the lady liberty side not not concerned about the genocide they are supporting? I mean, if you assume the protesters focused against the genocide their own government has a great part in as not caring about anything while they are protesting this one, the most extreme human suffering, issue with a lot of burning passion it deserves and not caring about other things, you have to look at the other side and see they have no cards against this genocide.
Are multi-issue voters okay with funding genocide as long as their own rights are not infringed upon?
I’m deeply uncomfortable with the amount of people calling those wholly opposed to complicity in genocide as “single issue voters”. Sure, if genocide isn’t enough of a concern for you to oppose candidates that are complicit, then I guess you can call it “single issue”.
We’re talking genocide here, so I’m going to compare this to the most known genocide on the planet. Imagine if we knew about and could see the Holocaust occurring as it happened when it started, and FDR was funding the Reich including circumventing congress. Would you expect people to still vote for FDR, or would you expect people to oppose his candidacy? This caliber of rhetoric as well as this post has turned this leftist away from my plan to vote for Biden. Nice work folks. I’ll be voting for Cornel West and trying to keep the liberal trifecta in my state legislature this year.
And I’m deeply uncomfortable thinking that giving a chance to the candidate that thinks Hitler is a great guy AND the USA should do some of the same things as Nazi Germany while he’ll ALSO keep funding Nazi Germany, but even harder, is sane - let alone even a viable argument for those already opposed to the current choice already funding genocide.
Even the EU is learning how stupid Americans are and are making plans to not rely on it at all + make entry harder (next year you won’t be able to travel to just countries here for extended stay easily anymore by passport alone for example). And dumbasses like you are proving there’s a severe lack of critical thinking.
If these are the best candidates we can put up then maybe we deserve to lose our spot as the world’s last super power.
USA definitely deserved to lose that spot long ago, but NOT if it means China takes its place - don’t think y’all are so special as to be the only world super power. Pre - Xi maybe, but Xi has made it clear they want to go the “world emperor” path and China would also be a terrible Steward. At least the USA doesn’t kidnap foreign citizens / expats to make them disappear, or actively trying to annex loca countries anymore.
But we do know that Trump would do something similar (Khashoggi being a good example). The fact is the USA would still be a world leader because the existing economic and military connections it has wouldn’t disappear overnight - the only difference is the world would be a worse place.
Although Biden is obviously a terrible candidate, it’s just not even a contest that Trump is greatly, significantly worse. The Democrats are definitely seeing a “cry wolf” effect because although previous Republican candidates have indeed been terrible, none (aside from Bush Jr) have really threatened the power structure of the USA as much as Trump term 2 would.
If you still have doubts, read Project 2025. They are literally telling you they will turn the USA into a Christo-fascist autocracy.
Naw. We’d have the same headwinds China is facing. Yes support in developing countries would be buyable. However the EU, Canada, and Australia would move away from us. We’d feel that, right in the GDP. Our Asian allies would likely maintain a veneer of friendship to help ward off China but they would also be moving to not depend on us anymore.
People underestimate just how much power and money the US gets from it’s alliances. So while yes, China is there, they wouldn’t move to take our position. The world would just return to a mutli-polar system faster than it already is.
As to Trump vs Biden. I refer to my comment above. Genocide is a deal breaker no matter what party letter is next to your name.
Do you pay taxes?
If Trump wins, funding for Israel will increase, and even more Palestinians will die. So basically, you’re valuing your purity over human lives. Which is quite fascist, if you think about it.
No, it’s fucking not. Cornel West opposes funding to Israel, supports a 2 state solution, and supports the same issues strawmanned by lady liberty. I value the end of a genocide as well as a socialist economy. If neither of the mainstream candidates will stop the genocide, I’m going to vote for the only candidate that wants to stop the genocide as well as handle the other issues I care about, in a way I’d align with. My barely tepid patience with Biden and supporters like you has run out.
I would agree with this if not for the fact that you live in an absolute farce of a democracy where voting for a third party is nothing but a protest vote. Which seems fine to do in a state that will vote majority democrat anyway, but plain irresponsible in one that won’t.
Discouraging people from voting 3rd party only ever hurts Democrats and liberal candidates. We’re not just electing the president, which is where most of the 3rd parties appear, we’re voting for everything. Telling people in battleground states that voting for “their guy” is pointless will stop the liberal and progressive people that support Cornel and Stein from going to vote. Those people vote Democrat down-ballot.
I upvoted you for at least naming a potential candidate, rather than vaguely saying “someone else”.
The reality is that either Trump or Biden will win and if you’re not voting for either of them then, practically speaking, you might as well not vote at all. Third party candidates only ever get a tiny fraction of the overall vote and that’s not going to change this time.
I’m not casting a protest vote. I’m voting honestly because there is no way to strategically vote for the less genocidal candidate.
Your moral purity will kill more people. Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Biden is the less genocide candidate. He’s been getting aid into Gaza, putting pressure on Israel, and directing funds towards humanitarian aid. All of that would cease immediately under trump.
Realistically, the best way to reduce genocide is through protest, donations, and activism. Electorally, the best option is to vote for Biden in the hopes we can keep trump from making thing unimaginably worse.
clearly my message went over your head. Either a candidate supports a genocide, or they don’t. Biden can wag his finger all he wants, he’s still complicit in genocide. The truth is that he’s handling Israel more conservatively than Ronald Fucking Reagan.
If you put things in such stark black and white terms then every president has supported genocide; they’ve been funding Israel since the beginning, and America itself is built on stolen, colonized, and occupied land.
In truth elections have consequences, and across the board things will be substantially worse under trump than Biden.
He just pledged more money so they can keep bombing kids. I’m not in the US but it’s the same deal here in the UK. I’m not gonna vote for a guy who is trampling on my rights just to avoid the guy who does it a bit more, I’m gonna vote for who I want. We have first past the post voting here which makes my vote “wasted” but voting for the slightly less evil guy isn’t the way to fix it.
Also: vote in primaries
“Opposing genocide is fascist” is certainly a take.
The “if Trump wins” folks are angry at the implication that their vote is tacit support of genocide, but are fine with the implication that not voting for Biden is tacit support for Trump
I think it depends on how people/voters see the particular conflict. When Bush jr put a genocide on the Taliban, he had a lot of support. When Obama put one on ISIS, he had a lot of support. When Biden stopped US support for genocides in Yemen or Rwanda, voters didn’t really seem to care one way or another.
Lmao I’m sorry. You think the US committed genocide in Afghanistan and Syria? I must have missed the part where we carpet bombed them and withheld food.
US-backed forces succeed in making Raqqa 80 percent “uninhabitable”
Do you think they were sending in food trucks while they were bombing anyone trying to flee the city?
So now we’re pulling out the propaganda pieces. This would be the first time I’ve ever heard of the US bombing civilians excavating Raqqa. That’s just not corroborated anywhere. Even Amnesty International blames ISIS for holding the civilians there. They also put the civilian death toll at 1,500, which is a bloody miracle if there were 25,000 civilians being held hostage in the city.
The closest thing I could find is a relief web article saying the US didn’t help civilians evacuate. Which isn’t surprising because that’s not something that happens unless you’re the defending military. And then it’s usually actually the police and first responders anyways.
And I’m not surprised 80 percent of the city was destroyed. The only enemy left were the ISIS fighters that had mentally prepared themselves to die fighting. They weren’t going to let a single inch of ground go uncontested.
Edit to add - You still haven’t explained how that would be a genocide either though. There was a massive evacuation of civilians before the siege started. It’s a city of 500k-750k people.
I’ve linked you an article where you can learn about the US military ‘shooting every boat they saw crossing the river’. I can imagine you haven’t really heard about the details of the siege of Raqqa because, well, most people didn’t want to know. There’s a lot you can find though, same goes for sieges like Mosul or Fallujah: a final siege against a dug in enemy is never going to be pretty. White phosporous, thermobaric weapons, … War crimes. It’s either that or a lot more casualties for the attackers.
And regarding your final paragraph: Israel is encouraging massive evacuation of civilians as well. It’s not like they’re not letting anyone out of Rafah, it’s just that Egypt is not letting any refugees through (unless they pay) which results in them running around in circles. But rest assured that they would not have let Raqqa ‘of the hook’ if those civilians hadn’t left
Lmao no they aren’t. They designated a tiny area, and they don’t allow them to leave Gaza. Then they keep attacking into the area they forced them to move to. When you allow people to evacuate you do so to a non combat area.
And again. That’s not corroborated anywhere. Groups like Amnesty International have no problem coming after the US.
You’re also still not talking about the 95 percent of Raqqa that was evacuated. If that was a genocidal act they would not have been allowed to do so.
Can you cite a source that they’re not allowing them to leave Gaza?
When did Biden interfere with the Rwandan genocide, famously known for global inaction as the Hutus killed nearly 1 million Tutsis? Fuck off with this transparently bad faith talking point.
I’m so very sorry, of course I meant the Rwanda supported genocide in Eastern Congo. Can you explain on why you see this as ‘bad faith’?
it was a bad, wrong, evil thing that happened when the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, but it was not a genocide. Same with how Obama handled drone strikes, well, everywhere in the region. I did not have the context that you unintentionally referenced the wrong events and it was the simplest point to address. I apologize for leveraging that accusation
I think it’s weird you’re downplaying these other genocides to defend taking a stronger position on Gaza
The Lancet estimates 2,5% of the Iraq population killed because of the US invasion between 2003-2006. They’re nearing 1,5% in the Gaza strip (but it’s slowing down). So I would think it’s weird to say it’s normal people are protesting the Gaza one so much while not really caring about the Iraq one, back in the day.
(Sorry I hope I’m somewhat exagerating but I also hope you see my point)
What you’re hoping nobody looks up is that the Lancet decided most deaths during that period were attributable to the invasion. Even gang and tribal violence. In the breakdowns they only say ~180,000 deaths were due to coalition actions. Which is in line with most other studies.
So that’s about 4,600 deaths a month. Altogether 0.6 percent of the population. Per month? 0.017%
Now let’s do Gaza. We hit 30,000 deaths in how many months? 5? Hell let’s give them 6. That’s 5,000 people a month in a county a tenth of Iraq’s size. Literally 2.3 million people. 1.3 percent of the population, double the coalition numbers from Iraq.
And that’s before the hospitals were too destroyed to keep counting deaths. Before we’ve tallied the death toll of Israel’s man made famine. Before we’ve dug the bodies out from under the rubble.
Don’t try to whataboutism this with bullshit numbers. It’s not a good argument even when the US actually did something. But trying to make it up too? You deserve to be laughed out of here.
So, if I look at your whataboutism argument
Why would you want to include every single death in Gaza and then coldly say 450.000 excess deaths (read that number again) in Iraq ‘don’t really count’?
I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.
The thing is that unlike previous elections, this one could actually break down democracy.
Trump is going even more insane than previous elections, or even during his time in office. Calling himself “dictator for a day”. All so if he gets elected, he can just pardon himself and get rid of the huge amounts of criminal charges. He doesn’t care who he has to step on to achieve this.
All to the delight of Putin of course, it is widely known how deep Trump is in his pocket. He backs Trump so Trump can get the US to retreat from NATO, and destabilise Europe and the US so he can war further in all the Slavic countries that he considers USSR territories without issue.
That is also why we encounter so many Russia bots and shills. To make it seem the “genocide joe” issue is much bigger than it actually is.
I’d love for Biden to change his stance on sending Israel weapons, but not if it means increasing the chance of WW3.
And don’t kid yourself, WW3 will inch closer if Trump gets reelected.
The only way to bring down the two party system in the US is to eliminate first past the post voting.
I admire third party voters in the US, trying to bring down the 2 party system.
It is a pretty misinformed attempt, considering that voting for a third party will never bring down the US 2 party system. It will at best replace one of the 2 parties with another party. The 2 party system is baked into the US political system on account of its election laws, and it will take some major revisions of the US constitution to change that to something else.
That’s essentially what happened with the Whigs. The leadership decided that they weren’t going to decide one way or another on a strong stance for/against slavery, ignoring the pleading of their own constituents. So the anti slavery ex-Whigs made Lincoln’s Republican Party and the Whigs never recovered.
So not only is biden likely handing the election to trump, the moral outcry that is being ignored might kill the Democratic Party for good.
