- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
What did it mean by “no pension after 5 years”
If you serve a couple of terms in us congress you get free healthcare for life, that’s one of the reasons why George Santos tried to hold on for so long.
I have always heard people make this argument, and since it’s Great British Bake-off time, I’ll use it as the example.
There’s no prize, and the pay per episode is fairly minimal. Less than $500/episode for contestants. Plus, they get ~$2000 stipend for ingredients. On the fly converting pounds to dollars, so these are guesstimates.
What that means is that Great British Bake-off does not find the best home baker in Britain, it finds the best baker who can afford to take time off to be on the show. If you can afford to miss school, work, or being a parent for 12 weeks, you can’t compete.
Same applies here.
If you can’t afford to live on the salary, you’ll only get people in office who don’t need the salary. We already get that to some extent with campaigning costs. This could make it worse. The barrier of entry is higher.
Instead, we need a performance review with real consequences other than “Guess I don’t get re-elected, but I still get a book deal.”
I have always thought it should be twice the average median income of the state they represent.
But you bring up much larger issues. There are so many bars to running for office that make it so much easier for capital holders. I say people who hold capital should be barred from public office. I will leave the exact definition of “holding capital” up to the reader.
They would just steal more.
uh, get rid of congress all together and replace them with a liquid democracy structure. There’s not a good reason not to in this day in age. Elected reps just breed corruption.
What is the nature of your existence?
lemmyAutobotHelper: Greetings [Impractical_Island]! User [redditStinksSuperBad] has added you to their [booger eaters] block list. Be sure to visit www.lemmyautobothelper.com for all your lemmy botting needs! Have a nice day!
Bro did you just call me a bugger ater? GTFO my Kongregate! This my flash gaming paradise from the before-times well after Christ.
Might be unpopular be politicians should actually be paid a lot. You want to attract actually skilled and capable people after all
But it should also be there only source of income, no speaking gigs, no stock trades, no side business
One of the reasons a lot of government positions track if you have debts is that propensity to financial burdens make politicians more suceptible to corruption.
If you pay them less, they are actually going to be more easily bribed.
If you pay them less, they are actually going to be more easily bribed.
If you keep the same people in office, then yeah. I wonder who else would be up for the job if the pay was lower. Hopefully more Mamdanis.
Nah, it’ll be independently wealthy trust fund kids that don’t need to rely on a paycheck to pay rent, but have a trust that is valued based on policy.
Politicians should be some of the highest paid people in the country. I wouldn’t get out of bed for 70k today, that was my paycheck for my first professional job. Now perhaps you don’t want me as a politician, but…
I’d agree with you except we see politicians selling out for even tiny amounts while having tens of millions in the bank. If you’re willing to sell the food out of the mouths of the poor for $2,500 and you’ve got 12 mil in the bank your inherently corrupt and having a big paycheck won’t change that. They have billionaire brain rot, number go up syndrome, as long as number goes up that’s all that matters no matter how much they are given or have.
These people are massively advantaged with the current campaign system/rules.
It’s also actually a means to prevent corruption unfortunately. Less likely to take ridiculous sums if you’re financially solid
Live in Missouri. Our state legislature liked to for years vote down a pay raise for themselves. They made sure to stand up and wave “Look at how good we’re doing.”
If I wanted to run for legislature, I would have had to taken a cut in pay and I am definitely not on the top 50% of the state, much less the country.
Won’t even slow them down, they’re generationally wealthy and make more from bribes then most of us well earn in a decade.
mitch, mtg, boebart, vastly increased thier fortune to 10s of millions in the last 5-10years. all that stock trading and other bribes that dont get reported in msms.
This would mean that the job would only appeal to two kinds of people: those earning below the average wage, or the very rich who don’t care what the job pays.
I’m all for low-earning folks getting a raise by running for Congress, but the problem is that anyone above average wage will see this as a pay cut. And the higher end of wage earners are the more highly educated, skilled, and experienced people.
Even if Congressional wages seem high now, most well qualified professionals can still earn way more in the private sector.
So deadass that’s what I’m actually doing right now lol. Running for office cause it’d get me more money and time off, and well, I care about it anyways. Not congress tho, local type shit
Sadly this is a very solid point. This would probably lead even stronger to the tendency that billionaires could simply bjy representatives/senators.
I like the ideas that people are saying about median and mean wage being the benchmark for congressional pay, but wouldn’t it be nicer if they had to meet metrics in order to get paid?
Since they are supposed to serve the American people, making congressional seats commission-based would be nice. That way they’d actually have to put in effort to make their wages.
And any form of bribery or donations should be considered treason, and the people that commit treason should be treated like traitors (Congress people and their donors).
And on stock trading, having to report the trade a day in advance to some kind of congressional ledger would be nice. On the day of the trade, they have to mention wether or not they executed the trade, and that information should be made public. Or better yet, make their brokerage accounts on a platform designed just for Congress people, and they can’t make trades outside of that platform. All of the trades they make should be public.
One can dream
Ughhhh what? Again I hate to hate on people who did good in life. You gotta step up your game and find a profession that can earn you above that wage as well as pay off the student loan which if you don’t choose the minimal w/the longest time to pay it off, with a ridiculous apr, so you won’t be trapped in a financial hole.
But I think that 280k$/yr should be the max anyone can potentially earn and I think you should have to pay 2% more overall in taxes per year on everything city, state and federal once you make over 120k$. For example your excise tax, city water bills and even phone bills would be 2% more.
Not groceries and clothes/general retail. so like credit card bills, Spotify, Netflix wouldn’t be more in taxes. Phones are needed in today’s society, like you can’t do a lot without it. So it would be extra in taxes.
Nah. Get rid of the numbers. No money, no problem, amirite? Just make willpower and do what you do best! That’s the supererogatory of self. Old men plant trees they don’t ever see the shade of, y’know? Simple shit to restructure your reality around, if you cared. Karma, as we call it. The entanglement process. Oooh, I’m horny already…
Nahhh, I’m not for total get rid of everything but a restructuring of society couldn’t hurt… The common man, 😉
It’ll ruin the superduper rich but the common man would love a societal restructuring.
I want to have sex for not just the healing potential I offer, but there’s the fun of it, I think, but I just want to help people bro! Why’s it so hard to get a job at the FBI? Why is there not an application in my mailbox, you fucking retards. You ain’t recruiting nearly as smartly as you think you be, but you is, cuz you are, and that is what I’m gunna find out once I become an uncertain size that y’all can’t ain’t not see. So fuck off, will ya, I got about a hundred house calls a night you slimy ass gretchins in the digital rotundosphere be thundering up my ass, thanks ya bridgly that I ain’t gotta stank them True Captain shit’s righteousness’ rightly, so I undercurth, and will just do random shit henceforth. Goodnight Mr Plierman…
You can always ask chatgpt how to create a career path for you. Other than that, I wouldn’t know the answer to any of your questions and/or psychotic ramblings. I’m wicked sorry I’m not of help. I see stuff for FBI Agents on Indeed all the time, I’m sure if you apply and stuff you might get far, idk.
Bro, you’re the one that don’t know because you never engage to equate yourself with me. That is a weird piece of the puzzle, y’know? Empathy? I personally believe it is self-evident that I am a skilled communicator in text, which requires a degree of empathy, as all that ish be is your ability to see around your “self,” y’know, maneuver the lakitu bro of the “I” observing itself, like biting your own teeth, grinding into it (there is something interconnected with ear-rumbling, I must openly acknowledge for benefit to the coffers insuite. But it’s just seeing back into itself. Like, I can’t drive. I cannot, for the life of me, pilot a motorized vehicle, but I can errorcify your new self with some brittle ironcane flanges if you wish to…level up…yes? Go Thundercats!
You gotta step up your game and find a profession that can earn you above that wage
Above median salary? What about the fact that, by definition, 50% of people won’t be able to do that?
Okay, okay, so wages rise over time, and eventually 99% of people are making above 66k… but then the new median will be, like, 150k, and everything in society will be priced accordingly, and some other person will have the great advice that “You gotta step up your game and find a profession that can earn you above that wage” again ignoring the fact that, by definition, 50% of people cannot do that.
No. The solution is not to tell people to work harder, or just find a better job. You want a society where people clean the rooms in hotels, right? What would happen if all cleaning staff took your advice?
At the bare minimum for this conversation, we should ensure that people making median income have a good quality of life. At the bare minimum for an ethical society, wages would not be the metric that determines whether someone deserves a good quality of life.
Ever think that the 50% that can do it, should while they can before that kind of hyper inflation happens and like maybe boost the morale with advice on how not to trap yourself in a predatory ass loan or give a list of things you did to achieve your goals that got you into a position where you feel financially comfortable.
I mean shit I’m on food stamps but I found a goal that’s gonna make bank in less than 2 years plus I can pay it off in 2 years on a payment plan. I’m gonna be making six figures in less than 5 years. I am more than happy. I’m stepping up my fucking game.
Ever think that the 50% that can do it, should…
Fair enough; also by definition, 50% of people make more than the median. Good for them.
I’m saying that, by definition, no matter where the median salary is, 50% of people will make less than that. Individual choice can change who makes less than that… but still, 50% of the population will make less than that.
hyper inflation
Well, not necessarily. I didn’t specify a period of time. In the past 30 years, nominal wages have grown 150%. So if, in the next 30 years, nominal wages grow 150%, we hit the numbers that I gave.
I’m on food stamps
gonna make bank in less than 2 years
gonna be making six figures
Right, so at this time, you are among the 50% of people who make below median salary. I admire your confidence, but… what if it doesn’t work out? There’s a small chance you get into a car accident and your plan gets thrown off. There’s a small chance you have a medical emergency. There’s a small chance your house catches fire.
Success is not guaranteed just because you work hard. There’s a chance you make below median salary for the rest of your life. It is MY opinion that it doesn’t matter why you’re making below median salary; you still deserve a life that doesn’t involve making a choice between paying a medical bill or paying rent.
Success is not guaranteed just because you work hard. you still deserve a life that doesn’t involve making a choice between paying a medical bill or paying rent.
No I agree but that seems like there needs to be a restructuring of the medical system and the insurance system.
Section 8 needs to be reevaluated so those that don’t really need it and are taking advantage can get the fuck off of it and those that need it can get the fuck on it. Section 8 is Severely Lowered Rent making it so that you can pay your bills.
Success being a non guarantee means that neither does having stability, you’re not 100% guaranted that you will be able to pay your medical bills and buy groceries, that’s based off of your personal success and financial gains, as well as being able to successfuy balance your budget (meaning seeing extra money and putting in the bank, not on a new product) That’s just the cruel reality of living anywhere on this planet, not just in capitalism or the US.
that seems like there needs to be a restructuring
Who would be in charge of doing that? Would it be Congress? What incentives do they have to do this restructuring?
The proposal is that Congress be paid the median salary so that it is clear which things need to be restructured and why. If they want better living conditions, they would need to pass policies which improve the material conditions of a typical citizen.
you’re not 100% guaranted that you will be able to pay your medical bills and buy groceries… That’s just the cruel reality of living anywhere on this planet
We’re talking about median income. You said that the solution was to make more than median income. Are you now saying that you are willing to tolerate these conditions for 50% of people? I don’t like the idea of anyone being unable to afford rent or groceries or healthcare, but I would at least kind of understand if you were willing to tolerate 1% of people suffering. But 50%?
The point being made is that if 50% of people are struggling, something is wrong. It means a failure of governance. It’s the kind of mistake that can only be made by a Congress who makes 3 times the median income, and is populated almost entirely by people with rich parents, who have never ever struggled. It’s the kind of mistake that would not be made by a Congress that makes median income.
It’s the kind of mistake that would not be made by a Congress that makes median income.
So they’re making a shit load of money and ain’t doing shit but if they make less that’ll suddenly inspire them to do a better job… Where is the common sense there?
Also, I don’t like volatility in the job market, if they’re making that much they must’ve worked hard enough to get there… unless it’s just purely nepotism then they can go fuck themselves. Maybe looking into ending government corruption little by little could end up with people who are worth their position, rather than people who suck at what they do and get paid a fuck load.
I will amend what I said to say, I mean for the common man, if you’re struggling and have the ability to be able to get into a position in life where you can make more than the median, than you should attempt it.
The solution is obviously deflate the economy a little bit while lowering federal interest rates so people who are making the median or a little more than the median can buy homes and afford medical bills and groceries at the same time
if they make less that’ll suddenly inspire them to do a better job… Where is the common sense there?
If you were a house builder, but you could only live in the typical houses that you’ve built… would that inspire you to do a good job?
If a person’s job is public policy and legislation… but they have to live under typical living conditions for the citizenry… do you think that would be any different than a builder who has to live in the houses they build?
The solution is obviously
No intellectually honest thought starts with this.
I think you should have to pay 2% more overall in taxes per year on everything city, state and federal once you make over 120k$
Yep, the US Federal income tax (and many states’ income taxes) are already a progressive tax that separate income into brackets and taxes each bracket at an increasing rate. It’s definitely time to increase that top marginal rate and add a bunch of exclusions that rich people use to hide their money in capital gains.
This has been tried before and the result is that only rich people can afford to run for office. Is that really what you want?
But then we wouldn’t get “the best people”. /s
This is a politician’s idea. Their wages and benefits are trivial compared to the insider trading and other corruption.
Instead of making them live on a low salary, why not try making them live on their high salary first?
Always fascinates me that the knee jerk solution to ‘government service sucks’ is ‘pay the service providers less.’
I like the idea of tying congressional compensation to median or minimum wage, so they’re motivated to improve that statistic (although Goodhart’s law), but it’s got to be enough to compete with other jobs with similar level of responsibility & authority. Median income jobs include K-8 teachers, tax prep, social work, & occupational safety; congress is basically the country’s board of directors, and S&P 500 directors average around $300k, or 4.5x median.
The real problem with congress is it’s so easy to funnel nearly unlimited money to politicians’ control - it may not be salary, and there may be restrictions, but campaign donations provide an awful lot of opportunities for diversion. Massive campaign & campaign finance reforms, in ways that would probably set SCOTUS into a rage, be a real step toward making congress more accountable to the 90%.
Always fascinates me that the knee jerk solution to ‘government service sucks’ is ‘pay the service providers less.’
Congresspeople are not the service providers. The various agencies are the service providers. Congress controls the pay to those providers.
Nobody here has asked for the service providers to take a pay cut. OP is asking for Congress to take a pay cut until the service providers under their control are providing a higher level of service.
Congress’s report card is the well-being of the public. In the subject of “Financial Wellness”, their grade is “$66,621”.
They aren’t being asked for a pay cut. When they improve their grade to “$174,000”, they will be entitled to their current pay. When they raise it to “$250,000”, they will be entitled to a substantial raise. It’s only a pay cut if they insist on causing harm.
Does this not incentivise them to prop up the overpayed class of management so they can point to is as a comparable?
You’d use median income as the benchmark, but give them a current (or historical) multiplier. Fun fact: before 1970, the board of directors was a prestige position, almost always unpaid. Before 1980, average (mean) CEO salary was pretty close to mean worker salary, which would probably have been around 2x median.
Sounds good on paper, until you notice this means… only the wealthy would ever bother running for office.
That’s true already
That’s the theory behind pensions for most public offices and the police. To remove the temptation for corruption in office… not that it works
I’m sure many low wage workers would jump at the chance to actually make a difference.
Why do we think only people who have become career politicians should be politicians? They’re the last people who should do it.
A room of 600 plumbers, nurses, and bin men would make far better decisions than them.
Yes, but in that case adopting Sortition and abolishing career politicians makes way more sense.
The usual argument against this is that the less politicians earn, the easier they are to bribe.
Politicians will be happy to take bribes regardless of what they earn.
See Exhibit A: Trump
I’ll never get over how cheap it is to buy politicians. They make so much money, then they can be made to vote for a genocide for $3000.
It’s not just about how much they get, it’s also about how much their opponents don’t get.
I think it’s more to do with influence. They gain the favor of a large business with access to basically infinite money which gives them a whole lot more power behind them
Which is why taking away their salary punishes honest politicians more than corrupt ones.
At least until campaign finance is fixed. Citizens United has fully instituted political bribery as a matter of course
As an intermediate solution, you can define it as X times the median or the minimum legal wage, so they still have incentive to raise them.
This is the way, and they aren’t allowed to buy any stocks, only ETF’s
Nope, ETFs are too flexible for them. Only indexed mutual funds for members of Congress. Can’t have them selling off their ETFs before a committee meeting is over and the information isn’t public.
I say they should only be allowed Thrift Savings Plan funds.
I wouldn’t even let them have that. They are there to help the population, not the economy (corporations).
Any hard measures comes with a drop of their personal wealth the moment they are investing.
Index funds should be fine then, even Bernie Sanders has Index funds. Smart people will want to invest.
That was going to be my first comment, but really, will politicians hold tech companies responsible for example if they know that giving real fines and not token ones leads directly to a drop?
I know you are right, that is what they claim. Having said that, 25 years of naked corruption should be enough, even for Americans, to realize they have been lied to
Or even if you take the bribery angle out of it, the less politicians earn, the less it incentivizes working class people from going into government because they need the money. The net result is you end up ruled by the wealthy (including those who will advocate for pay decreases for congresspeople, which just worsens the problem).
How is that different from now?
It’s not, which is why it’s not a valid solution.
Or that you just make politics into something only for the independently wealthy. This is especially true at the state and local level where positions are often part time. The result is often those with the power to make their own schedules (landlords, lawyers, trust fund kids, etc.) make up a disproportionate amount of elected officials. You’ll get some people who are passionate enough to give up the rest of their lives, but not enough.
Also low compensation makes it nearly impossible for the average person to run an office, live in DC, and maintain a home in their home district.
I’d be okay if they recieved some kind of voucher or stipend that can only be used on a lease in DC and office necessities. Just to make up the difference
Just build dorms for Congress. There are only around 540 of them, including the non-voting members from PR and DC.
You could make a very nice apartment building for Congress for less than we spend on a lot of other shit. Remove all the extra costs for maintaining two residencies. Travel is already an extra stipend. So is food.
That’s what the FBI and clearance is for
But the usual rational response is, if what they earn is never enough for the blind pursuit of more, than they will always, “make less” in their minds and justify abuse of their positions.
This city needs an enema…
So you set the congressional pay at a high level, and ban all other sources of income. Any securities must be placed in a blind trust for the duration of service.
The biggest argument against it is they need to maintain 2 residences and travel back and forth from their district to DC. If they’re not paid enough to do that, only the wealthy and corrupt could ever be in congress.
Yeah, but they’re already being bribed at this point.
The solution?
Prison for bribes. No parole. Enforce it.
