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Neo-McCarthyism. As usual, the anti-war activists are going to be labeled “enemies of the state,” foreign actors, etc.
the anti-war activists
Putting aside the fact that OP’s idea is a vile edgy fantasy, this “anti‐war activism” is frequently a veneer for this narrative: US is effectively solely at fault, Russia’s invasion is justified, the west should stop aiding Ukraine and let Russia win. This is the position I’ve seen from .ml users.
And it’s not easy to not see that as indeed being pro‐Russian.
I linked 3 statements, from the DSA, Breakthrough News, and PSL, on the west’s position with respect to the Russo-Ukrainian war. All 3 draw attention to the long-understood role NATO and western countries made in provoking the conflict in the first place. The belief on the left is that war is most commonly caused by the continuous swelling of the military industrial complex, and the insaitable necessity for expansion and plundering other countries.
Ukraine is getting hollowed out for parts by western countries, who provoked the war in the first place, and are pushing for Ukraine to continue fighting “to the last Ukrainian” rather than work towards a negotiated settlement. None of this position is based on support for Russia as a founding reason, yet those who cannot actually argue against these positions frequently try to dodge the anti-war and pro-peace argument by claiming it’s somehow the work of Russian influence.
There’s good reason both the DSA and PSL largely agree about NATO’s role, as well as Die Linke, PTB, Breakthrough News, etc. It’s because this didn’t come from nowehere, the west has done this over and over again around the world repeatedly. It’s an observed pattern, with the only agency allowed internally to stop this is to advocate against the far-right slide and increased militarism.
Per DSA:
We also oppose US and NATO military interventionism and the tens of billions in military aid and weapons shipments which only further exacerbates the war and undermine a negotiated settlement, as well as sanctions that will harm ordinary Russians.
So, pretty much as I said. Let Russia win and call it the anti‐war position, lol.
Ukraine is getting hollowed out for parts by western countries
Ohhh, evil western exploiters… Unlike the humane Russia that wouldnt hollow it out at all.
None of this position is based on support for Russia as a founding reason
It might not be the founding reason, but the outcome is the same.
A negotiated settlement is the best path forward for the Ukrainian people, who have been used by NATO countries as a battering ram to encircle and oppose Russia. This is not a “pro-Russia” stance, it’s a deliberate wish to end the war as soon as possible with as little bloodshed as possible. This is pure “peace is war” doublespeak on your part.
This is not a “pro-Russia” stance
Saying stuff that nearly perfectly aligns with the official Russian narrative and military goals, and yet mechanically insisting that your stance is not pro‐Russian, is just not terribly convincing.
it’s a deliberate wish to end the war as soon as possible with as little bloodshed as possible. This is pure “peace is war” doublespeak on your part.
There’s at least one other option to end the war as soon as possible – having Russia cease the invasion. But in the pro‐Russian narrative, that option is not on the table, since the invasion was justified and necessary. It is not Russia that you want to see giving up, but Ukraine.
A ceasefire that gives concessions to a genocidal aggressor that is likely to attack again afterwards to get the rest of what it wanted is a pretty worthless peace, there’s nothing doublespeak about that conclusion. E.g. I also wouldn’t be advising Stalin to go beg Hitler for a ceasefire and giving concessions to the Third Reich while the Wehrmacht was encircling Leningrad, even though continuing and properly ending the war would and in fact did cost hundreds of thousands of lives – as tragic as it was, it was the correct decision, rather than some grotesque peace treaty. So spare me this selective pacifism.
Retread the statements I linked. The DSA and PSL are very different organizations, same with PTB and Die Linke, and yet they all focus on how to best bring an end to the war in a practical manner from their own positions as western organizations. None of them have power over what Russia does or does not do, but all can influence the continued warmongering and militarization of NATO. Only four countries recognize Russia as genocidal in the Russo-Ukrainian war:
And that’s because the Russo-Ukrainian war has, among modern conflicts, had a remarkably low civilian death count on both sides. What this means is that a swift and expedient settlement is the best that organizations in the west can actually push for to help the people of Ukraine, people who do not wish to keep fighting for western billionaires to plunder minerals. Further still, Donetsk and Luhansk already want to join Russia. Even if Kiev succeeded in pushing Russia back and getting them to surrender, Kiev would still be right back to the civil war it was in for 8 years prior to Russia entering the war.
The best case scenario for working class Ukrainians, as well as the people in the Donbass, is a negotiated settlement now. This is something socialist parties and anti-war activists recognize around the world. As the conflict in Iran heightens, it becomes clear that NATO buildup is being used to bomb elementary schools like Minab, all riding off of the far-right slide and militarization campaigns that only service western billionaires.
None of this is “pro-Russia.” Labeling any socialist views as being “foreign influenced” is a time-tested method of cracking down on any form of anti-war, anti imperialist, pro-labor activism for centuries.
ur on da lisd
srr bru
Hopefully my OPSEC is good enough to keep me safe, but organizing as a communist is always a risk.
You’ll be found out and barred from jobs you could never dream off anyways.
Calm your victim complex.
NSPM-7 is a real program targeting any organization against the capitalist state. This isn’t a “victim complex,” it’s the real present day state repressions.
I am like Kraut, referring to pro-Putinists, which include individuals in a wide assembly of political positions and whether they can sit in high level positions in the defence, etc.
As I said in my original comment:
As usual, the anti-war activists are going to be labeled “enemies of the state,” foreign actors, etc. It’s already happening to BreakThrough News, the DSA, PSL, etc.
It’s easy to simply call people “pro-Putinists” and then make lists, crack down on them, repress them, etc. Calling anti-system agitators “foreign agents” or “foreign influenced” is a time-tested tool of fascism.
I don’t believe this wide sweeping, that you refer to, will occur.
People who support the aggressive nation of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine are, in fact, very identifiable. You are not innocent “anti-war activists”. You support an aggressive neighbor.
I don’t support “cracking down on” you. I DO support you being barred from holding certain positions in defense and similar.
Liberals love being bootlickers for state violence. Classic.
Frauds love leading impressionable people to believe that Democrats are worse than Republicans.
They are two sides of the same coin.
I understand that you want people to believe Democrats are the same or worse than Republicans. This is the lie you keep pushing constantly and is why I’m replying to you
Demonstrably they fight for all the same people and none of them are you or me. Dems are just Republicans with pride flags. They support every single evil thing just the same but mildly better optics (sometimes).
Right, this is the lie you’re spreading. Democrats are objectively far better in every aspect. The fact that they partially are terrible people can never change the facts. The US electoral system all but guarantees third parties losing. No amount of lying can change that. If you care about any vulnerable people, Democrats are your only option 99% of the time, which is another thing that lying cannot wash away.
The US electoral system all but guarantees third parties losing
Its crazy how you understand how to fix things, yet still dont make it a priority to do so.
You are a big fan of the phrase bLuE mAgA so there won’t be any input of value to be had here.
Genuine question: What could the Democratic Party do that would make you stop supporting them? Because clearly, a literal genocide isn’t it.
Genuine question, what would republicans do for you to not shill for them? Because the thing you claim to care about, literal genocide, isn’t one of them.
“DUUHHHH UR A REPUBLIKAAN DUHHH” 😂
Great rebuttal jackass. You’re really showcasing the intellectual integrity of an average Democrat. Are you going to answer the question or not?
Weird how you don’t like the inverse of that question. Shocking, really.
The answer is I don’t shill for them. But what I do know with you American supremacists is that upon me saying this, you will instantly enter into pedanticism in order to dodge the question I just asked. Prove me right please :)
Ok and I’m so sure this is good faith on your part! As long as republicans are worse than democrats, I am forced to vote for democrats in almost every context. This is not a real choice, it is the only moral one. I am not someone who can pretend taking a symbolic stand is more important than actually minimizing harm.
These conversations are literally never useful though, because you would rather commit seppuku than acknowledge that third parties have little to no chance of victory. Now, prove me right!
Ah I just noticed your account age and skimmed your history. Won’t be making the mistake again of thinking there’s a 5% chance you’re not a bad faith actor.
He has a point tho… If both sides commit genocide and you find a genocide under one side unacceptable then you should find a genocide from the other side also unacceptable.
By your own logic if you don’t move to a third party then you are in fact pro genocide.
And genocides have happened under both parties control. Repeatedly in fact though out history.
So are you just pro genocide when it’s in line with your values or something?
then you should find a genocide from the other side also unacceptable.
And what makes you think they don’t?
Should I assume you fuck donkeys?Nobody in this thread supports the republicans, it was a deliberately bad-faith attempt to declare any opposition to the DNC to be support for the GOP.
Answer the question.
Also, what are you even talking about? Where have they shilled for the republicans?
Genuine question: What could the Democratic Party do that would make you stop supporting them? Because clearly, a literal genocide isn’t it.
When our progressive movement, either DSA has a full split as well as having more availability (same for PSL) then there is no longer a practical utility for the democratic party. Until then its them or crusader republicans doing double time.
You are misunderstanding blue no matter who as being pro dem rather than a last resort. And it continues to be one because MLs just want a total surrender of the electoral front.
My question was not “What could happen that would make you stop supporting them”, it was “What could they (as in the party itself) do that would make you stop supporting them”.
MLs just want a total surrender of the electoral front.
I actually don’t. If you’re a leftist, your electoral front should definitely not be represented by the Democratic Party. And it doesn’t matter that it’s a “last resort”, it has never worked and it will continue to fail.
I actually don’t. If you’re a leftist, your electoral front should definitely not be represented by the Democratic Party.
Like I said. not all of us have the privileged of an alternative and we have to make due with what is around us to live to fight another day.
Funnily enough, you’ll hear something very similar from the European far right parties. It’s almost like both of these extremes are funded by the same interests…
Already done, don’t worry.
The nazis are mask off these days
Time for heads off
I don’t get paid sis.
The intense joy I experience upon witnessing .ml users being dragged into the 3 letter agency tickle chambers are a reward in and of itself.
The intense joy I experience upon witnessing .ml users being dragged into the 3 letter agency tickle chambers are a reward in and of itself.
explain to me how you’re different from the republicans again?
cause ur kinda making my case for me in this whole thread
The SES (Soil Erosion Service) is gonna stand at the end of your bed and tickle your feet with a feather if have them outside your blanket tonight.
Send this message to 15 other .ml users to avoid the SES tickling your feet.
Ah, the ol Schrodinger’s Nazi trick. It was just a joke. As soon as how fucked up it is was called out.
Nothing screams “I am mentally stable” like expressing joy for torturing people.
Least psychotic liberal, folks. “Wahhh .ml is violent” shut the fuck up, loser.
Calm down.
not funny
Celebrating 3 letter agencies abducting folks with political opinions different than yours.
Cool and normal. Very freedom. Much democracy. Wow.
A majority of democrats would prefer living a military junta to anything approaching socialism, this user is a foremost example of that
You aware he’s likely Danish? US exceptionalism at work even in this argument
he’s salivating at the thought of turning his perceived political enemies over to the alphabet boys; not a huge leap to identify him as ‘spiritually american’
Sistah, you accused me of receiving payment from the CIA. I assumed it was a joke and of course I am gonna play in on that joke. C’mon now.
It was less a joke and more an observation that you are acting more invested in defending us empire than the people actually getting paid to do that.
“Hahaha I hope you get tortured to death” Yeah great “joke” my guy
Danes are the biggest dickriders of the US around. Even after all Trump did they still talk about being the US’ “closest ally.” Denmark is completely bought in on the US propaganda.
So one politicians that says a stupid statement immediately means the entire country it bought by the US?
Wow, racism much.
Do you know what the word race means? Do you think Danes are a race?
No, the fact that that is the general refrain amongst politicians, especially the prime minister - the leader of the country - AND the fact that Denmark continues to cooperate with the US as much as possible, including getting American bases on Denmark proper, is why I consider the country to be completely subsumed by the US.
Sorry you cheap dunk sucked.
Really not dodging that old “feddit is for fascists” moniker are you?
I butt heads with .ml users semi-frequently and even I think that none of what your wrote here is funny, dude.
mfw i joined the wrong instance of some niche social media so now i deserve to get put on a list of undesirables and be pre-crimed
Username Kraut posting some gestapo shit eh?
.ml is what it is, but watchlists ain’t my cup of tea either
Europeans making lists of “undesirables” I am shocked /s.
Something something first as tragedy second as farce.
Europeans making lists of “undesirables” I am shocked /s.
Yeah, it’s surprisingly catchy in activity. Try to name your son Mohamed in Xinjiang.
Try to name your son Mohamed in Xinjiang.
I know a few. This insinuation really falls on its face when you have experience with Xinjiang beyond the atrocity propaganda.
Also is this the famous whataboutism I hear people crying about so often?
I know a few.
How can I tell you don’t. Policy asking for list of religious names to be given to public security beuaruo, to be used to reject names of newborn children. Can’t have more Chinese source.
Also is this the famous whataboutism I hear people crying about so often?
Well, you started by calling Europeans nazis. And that now you cry whataboutism tells me you did not mean the first /s.
That policy is about standardising the transliteration and data entry of names? I still know more than one person who self identifies as Mohammed(穆罕默德) [Surname]. So I’m simply going to take them at their word. Also interesting you picked out specifically the security bureau and avoided the fact it was a list terms compiled by religious leaders and others for all relevant agencies including health, family planning and more.
Whataboutism isn’t real it’s simply fun to poke fun at the people who use accusations of “whataboutism” as a shield to avoid comparative arguments by asking about it in that manner when the opportunity presents itself.
I also didn’t start by calling Europeans Nazis I started by making a joke about Europeans making lists of undesirables, the Nazis is only one instance of that long held tradition (especially if you want to count EuroAmerikans and their escapades during and after WW2, McCarthyism, etc). Also I very much meant the /s I am not shocked at all by it.
It was one of George Orwell’s favorite hobbies, after all.
Well what else was he supposed to do with all that free time between writing his mediocre books and being a sex pest.
I never liked his books
I’m an outspoken critic of his sex pestness.
listed
Did you know Denmark was the main producer of CSAM between '69 and '84?
Thank you for the notification obergruppenfuhrer
obergruppenfuhrer?
how does scribbling down a name warrant a comparison to Nazi Germany?
You don’t see how making lists of “undesirables” to enact “justice” upon is reminiscent?
Bro.
I haven’t written anything down. You made your own post history in a lemmy instance known for being pro-Russia/anti-Ukraine.
how does scribbling down a name warrant a comparison to Nazi Germany?
How does it? Simple journalism.
said tankie, the guardian of the oppressed, the protector of democracy 😂
Yeah I really hate that Lenin, Stalin, and Mao did that.
Oh, sorry, we were talking about nazis. Them too.
You don’t see how making lists of “undesirables” to enact “justice” upon is reminiscent?
The irony of a Chinese person making this statement is sending me.
Actually kinda surprised I had to scroll this far to see the mask off racism that underpins so much of liberal “thought”.
Not particularly ironic if you’re not an orientalist. I hope it “sends” you into some introspection and research.
I know you tankies love to pretend otherwise to paint any criticism of your flavor of authoritarianism as racism but:
CCP ≠ China ≠ the Chinese people
Is it possible GreenBeard was being racist? Definitely. But to jump to that because they appear to be criticizing the CCP is… transparently ridiculous.
I’m sure PET will appreciate you focusing on the real enemy: leftists online. They will be so happy they only kick you twice in the face before contorting your body in a fucked up position for a couple of hours. You might even sue them in the human rights Court, as they are every week. You have to provide your own lawyer though.
russians also have a long list
Ok? So? Good for you or I’m sorry for your loss?
Uuuuh, .ml users are cancer but this is not the solution
I’m a Gemini, actually. But OP can kick rocks regardless ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Damn, the .ml crowd really doesn’t like being called out.
Brigading is like their favourite pastime it seems. Or they are using bots to downvote any comment that criticizes them.
To any non-tankie in those instances: get out while you can.
If .ml is so bad, wouldn’t anyone visiting it be able to see that for themselves? They dont need your commands to leave the instance.
Why continously feudpost in some cringe campaign against the instance? Normal people block people/shit they dont want to see and move on with their lives. Why haven’t you?
Welcome to a tutorial on how to block .ml on your personal account.
In the top right corner of the top of the page, there are 3 horizontal white bars. Click it.
This will open up a drop down menu. At the bottom of that menu, you will see your username. Click it.
This will open another drop down menu with 3 options. Click “Settings”.
At the top of your screen you will see 2 tabs. Click the one that says “Blocks”.
Here you will see “Block user” “Block community” and “Block instance”. Click the down arrow below “Block instance”.
This will open up a search bar. Type “lemmy.ml” and click it after it shows up. That’s it! You’ve blocked .ml and will never see content from the instance.
But wait, we aren’t done yet in this menu. Click the down arrow under “Block user”. Now type “UltraGiGaGigantic” Make sure you select my .ml account as the other ones I no longer use. Thanks, appreciate it.
Already did. Even used uBlock to remove any .ml and hexbear posts.
And now my feed has a lot less Russian and Chinese propaganda.
Funny how that works, eh?
Only encounter tankies in posts like these now.
being called out
I would imagine most people get annoyed when people accuse them of all sorts of dumb shit.
Brigading
Buddy, we see the same posts as you do, of course we’re going to engage with obvious bait.
Brigading is when ml exists and federates with anyone else, apparently.
grow up
LISTED
Am I on the cool kids club list?
Wow you are really not beating the Nazi comparisons, are you?
It’s time to make lists of people. All those who spent the last 5 years propagandising for Russia to demanding Europe stops its defence spending.
Isn’t it also about 5 years that there is the War next to EU’s border? (Russia vs Ukraine) There is also trump that threaten EU, and do whatever “he wants” I would really want to see more united EU, because now Eu is still subordinate to USA
Entry #1: the entire .ml user base
I don’t know even how I should react to it, I don’t consider the entire .ml instance as something bad, I can see why some instance defederate from them, but that is it
Comment below me says “listed”
PeanortiddieAIDS
Listed as hella rad.
