The musician started dating Australian model Helena Vestergaard in 2013, and they split after being together for approximately two years.
Before that, Kiedis, now 63, had a relationship with Heather Christie, who was 22 years his junior. When the pair welcomed their son, Everly Bear, in 2007, Kiedis was 44 and his partner was 21.
In the latest episode of My Therapist Ghosted Me, Williams and her co-host Joanne McNally discussed age-gap relationships, with the former I’m a Celebrity campmate saying: “Do you know who else I find really disappointing, because I really like the Red Hot Chili Peppers? Anthony Kiedis.”
Seemingly referring to his romance with Vestergaard, Williams continued: “He is like 54 or something, and he is going out with a 19-year-old. And it is like, ‘Dude, what are you talking about?’”
McNally replied: “I’ve seen this. I just accept now that most men, all men, are drawn to – I’m going to be very careful how I say this – significantly younger women. That’s all I’m going to say. It is what it is and I don’t think there’s any getting away from it. We judge it but it’s not going to change.”
“I would have to say that it is not all men,” Williams continued. “Because I do think it is a very specific thing.”
Addressing why younger women might decide to date older men, McNally added: “And of course, people like him [Anthony Kiedis] and rockstars like him can get away with it because no 19-year-old girl wants to be going out with some old lad who is driving a Toyota Corolla around town.
Vogue Williams and Joanne Mcnally are b-tier nepo-baby local celebs in Ireland. Having said that, Kiedis was probably a weird dude to say the least.
Broken clocks and all that.
They’re probably more qualified to talk about predatory creeps in Hollywood and the music scene than most then.
Its better than in was in the 70s just about every musician was dating 14 years olds…
*barf
They were all dating the same 14-year-old.
„Dating“ aka raping and trafficking.
meh, she’s of age and consenting. I’m more upset about the time he raped a 14 year old.
The guy is a asshole and and the part about the young girl from his book shows he isn’t a good person but this is a nothing burger from people who are going to be real get off my lawn types when they age up.
You can be upset about the rape and disgusted about the predatory nature of a 50 year old taking advantage of a 19 year old. They’re not mutually exclusive.
So just to be clear about this: you think that adult women should not be allowed to make their own decisions and mistakes? Because you can’t have it both ways, saying that yes, they should be free to make any decision they want, as long as its decisions you agree with.
You’re being obtuse so you can massage this exchange into accusing the interlocutor of being a misogynist or pedophile.
You think you’re clever. You’re not. It’s a trite internet-ism.
Yes, I think adult women should be allowed to make their own decisions. That doesn’t exempt the much older man from judgment for accepting the young woman’s advances.
In this case - Kiedis has a history of raping children. So yes, I will cast judgment on him for continuously dating women much younger than himself.
After splitting from Kiedis, Helena moved on and married professional surfer Nathan Webster.
Born on February 18, 1974, Nathan is 50 years old as of December 2024, while Helena is 31. This makes for a 19-year age difference between the couple.
I don’t know. The mind is willing, but the flesh is weak?
Adult women can make their own decisions. Predators and disgusting groomers are still predators and disgusting groomers. It is our task as decent adults to protect our young people from the sick fuckhead older people would use their ignorance of the world and freedom to exploit them because they make excellent victims, especially with people defending their base actions for some reason rather than reprimanding them.
Oh god did he groom her too? I didn’t see that part
I partially disagree that we shouldn’t judge him for this. However, I also recognize that saying she can’t do this is removing her liberties, and treating her as a child. If the genders were reversed, I bet we’d never hear about this story, but we treat women as something to be protected instead of individuals.
We can judge him some, for taking advantage of the situation (and the much worse things in his past). To say it’s absolutely wrong is absurd though. I can’t go that far. Adults are allowed to have relationships with whoever they want, and honestly, people should keep their disgust to themselves unless the person doesn’t want it. Many people would have the same disgust for homosexual relationships, and say people need to be protected from that, and fuck that nonsense. Do what you want, as long as it isn’t coerced.
We don’t have to agree with what happened to agree that she’s allowed to make decisions for herself. Doing otherwise is stealing her freedom from her.
So to be clear, I think most people by the time their brains have finished developing completely (ie let’s say 26 onward) don’t view 18-25ish as actual adults. They are entering into adulthood, but their brains are not fully developed.
This is genderless and applies to all human development.
So yeah maybe people in that age range shouldn’t be allowed to date people twice their senior. Which obviously that kinda of legal thinking is difficult to Implement, and would have so many nuances.
the best we can do here is social and moral outrage against this behavior. There are many Extra-judicial punishments, take your pick.
I’m with you.
Minimum age for enlistment should be 25.
Didn’t he confess to raping a 14 year old in his own published memoir? this is just pearl clutching
this is just pearl clutching
And we should just look away and not talk about it?
Yeah he did confess to raping a 14 year old and nothing fucking happened.
And we should just look away and not talk about it?
Not what I said, just how your brain works… sucks to be you
My point is that nobody is going after Kiedis for actual statutory rape but we are now prentending to be surprised about a gross, but legal, elderly dating the young situation
Calling it pearl clutching is dismissive.
Let’s talk about how fucked it is. Let’s make it not as acceptable. Let’s publicly shame these types of men who prey on teenagers.
It is dismissive because this clickbait article is pretending this is an issue, when at most it is a gross social situation, when the exact same character has actually committed and confessed to statutory rape and literally no ill consequences fell upon him.
Americans can pretend to be outraged by this but at the same time they are quite OK with a rapist, child molester president (remember he got voted in TWICE, after he claim on his own accord he like to grab women’s pussy with no consent)
he claim on his own accord he like to grab women’s pussy with no consent)
And that if Ivanka weren’t his daughter he’d fuck her, and that he likes them young but not as young as Epstein. This is the guy who sponsored an underage beauty pageant then went backstage into the girls’ dressing room. There is no end to the disgusting predatory evils he gets up to.
Calling it pearl clutching is dismissive.
What’s “dismissive” is the way you have been talking about a nineteen year old adult. Young, yes, but still an adult.
Kiedis is a scumbag and criminal. No argument there. However, you can make that point without treating Vestergaard as some naive, doe-eyed innocent who’s incapable of making her own decisions. You may not think so, but under the guise of concern, you’ve been insulting and belittling her constantly. That lack of respect bothers me much more than her relationship history.
I’m casting shame on the 50 year old man in this situation who has a history of raping children. Not the 19 year old.
maybe it’s controversial, but i think people are tired of so many fucked up shit that’s happening now. and this behaviour (old people dating 18+ teenagers) doesn’t seem worthy to spend your resources to fight against. and i think it’s reasonable. ofc if there’s a close person who experienced that and suffered from such relationships, you need to support them. but if it’s like in the article, the girl says she actually prefers 2x old men, then i don’t think it makes sense to spend your energy to prove her wrong
this behaviour (old people dating 18+ teenagers) doesn’t seem worthy to spend your resources to fight against.
We’re capable of caring about multiple things at once.
California is pushing to limit marriages to those 18 and over right now. We are changing the laws to protect young people more. This is part of it.
Wait, in California it’s legal for an adult to marry a child now?
Yes. A parent can marry their child off at any age in California:
California law requires a person under 18 years of age to obtain consent from at least one parent or guardian and permission in the form of a court order. Granting permission for a minor to marry or establish a domestic partnership is entirely within the discretion of the court.
https://www.sdcourt.ca.gov/sdcourt/juvenile3/juvenilemarriagelicenses3
They can both be wrong. Is that okay with you? That we just say they’re both wrong and talk about the systemic structures of our society that are striving to make it seem less wrong?
i understand what you mean, but “molested” is more correct term for that
no, I believe the actual term in Murica is “Statutory Rape”
again, i agree with what you’re implying but in the context of that comment “confessed that he raped 14 years old girl” sounds like a clickbait. it’s a difference between disgustingly terrible and even more disgustingly terrible but there is a difference
I am not understanding you… I am no implying anything, he literally confessed to this in his own memoir, there is no clickbait, it is as literal as I could say it
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/red-hot-chili-peppers-singer-anthony-kiedis-uncomfortable-truth/
“The next day we drove to Baton Rouge, and of course, she came with us,” Kiedis wrote. “After we got offstage, she came up to me and said, ‘I have something to tell you. My father’s the chief of police and the entire state of Louisiana is looking for me because I’ve gone missing. Oh, and besides that, I’m only 14’.”
Kiedis continued: “I wasn’t incredibly scared, because, in my somewhat deluded mind, I knew that if she told the chief of police she was in love with me, he wasn’t going to have me taken out to a field and shot, but I did want to get her the hell back home right away. So we had sex one more time.”
Also regarding your “there is a difference comment”, I’m sorry but that “difference” exists in your mind because you don’t seem to know what the proper term for this act is. There is no difference, what I used is the accurate term and what you used is the soft version.
Kiedis did not kiss and pinch the minor’s butt cheek… he (at age 24) put his penis in the 14 year old’s vagina repeatedly… I cannot make it more clear than this.
If anything, it is NOT “molesting” as the girl apparently did want to have sex with him
It IS however “rape” as she is unable to consent at this age (legally) making it an illegal act
the girl apparently did want to have sex with him
It IS however “rape”
Words matter. This thread has been made needlessly confusing by using “rape” and “statutory rape” interchangeably.
Statutory rape is rape.
A 14 year old child cannot consent to sex.
False. Statutory rape is a legal term predicated on the legal concept of consent, which can and does disagree with the existing non-legal words “rape” and “consent” (which can be seen in one of the other comments I replied here, in which the user talks about how she wanted to have sex with him while the act was considered “[statutory] rape”).
Words matter. Being deliberately deceitful does not lend extra credibility to your claims or opinions.
Legally, yes, but it paints a different picture. When you say “he raped a girl” first thing that people imagine is that he violently forced her to have sex with him. And that feels like clickbait. I’m not defending him, he’s a piece of shit. I just tired of clickbaits when they are not needed. It’s already terrible and there’s no need to exaggerate stuff
Words matter.
Indeed, you should learn them
Nice “no u” comment. It doesn’t negate anything I’ve said.
Imagine hitting 18 and competing against someone nearly thrice your age for girls the same age as you.
Nobody tell him his choice in partners makes him look ridiculous, he is a laughing stock for all around him (but similar-minded men). I’m around his age, and couldn’t tolerate the chatter personally. SHADDUP SHADDUP GET OUT
I prefer my partners to be twice-or-thrice-divorced, with eyes that have stared deep into the void.
And of course, people like him [Anthony Kiedis] and rockstars like him can get away with it because no 19-year-old girl wants to be going out with some old lad who is driving a Toyota Corolla around town.
Any old codger can get a younger woman, he just has to lower his standards drastically.
Every one of those people on 600-pound life have a partner.
A rich old codger/cougar doesn’t have to lower their standards, but as we can see here, Kiedis’ standards are “young and skinny”. Whatever, weenie. You suck and your band is shit
some old lad driving a Toyota Corolla
I feel targeted
She called him out for dating a consenting adult. Sure, it’s a big, creepy age gap, but that’s their business.
Maybe she didn’t know about the time when he was banging a 14-year-old.
I think she’s trying to open a dialog about his predilection to younger women. Break the ice with an icky agegap, when they have your attention bring up the stat rape.
“And of course, people like him [Anthony Kiedis] and rockstars like him can get away with it because no 19-year-old girl wants to be going out with some old lad who is driving a Toyota Corolla around town."
Not true. Rock stars are LESS likely to “get away with it”, because of all the scrutiny. Plenty of young girls are attracted to older men, I experienced it myself up to around 55. I’m very far from rich and famous. There’s nothing illegal about it, so the only “getting away” that happens is social stigma. Being rich and famous means they can be older and uglier, I suppose.
Plenty of young girls are attracted to older men
I can’t help but notice that in May-December relationships, December usually comes with Christmas.
That’s too cryptic for me to understand. Can you explain what you’re trying to say?
He’s not in jail for raping a 14 year old, is he?
Are any of those rock stars in jail for raping girls?
Plenty of young girls are attracted to older men, I experienced it myself up to around 55.
The 55 year old has the life experience to know that they’re taking advantage if they fuck a teenager. The power dynamic is inherently imbalanced, especially with a rock star.
I don’t know if power imbalance is the right frame to work from, here. Ultimately, rock stars and other public persona have a power imbalance with basically everyone. I once had a short term fling with an older lady who turned out to also be worth north of half a bil. There was absolutely a power imbalance involved when she had her private plane pick me up for a date weekend across Europe.
I think you might look more to, I guess, “life stage”. Back when I was in college, I remember there being relationships between college freshmen and college seniors, and well as relationships between college freshmen and high school seniors. Generally speaking, the freshmen dating high school seniors had longer term more stable relationships with a smaller age gap…and yet they got shit on much more than college freshmen/seniors. Because a college student and a high school student are in different stages of their life.
I imagine you end up with similar situations here. I genuinely don’t think a rock star has emotionally matured past teens/early 20s, because they never really had to grow up once the money showed up.
I struggle with dating quite a bit, but I imagine I’d have more in common with a 20 year old that’s been working for 2+ years, than a 26 year old grad student that hasnt worked a non-TA job in their life. Although I don’t think either would be age appropriate. Just illustrating the example.
He’s got more than one defining characteristic that causes an inherent power imbalance - age, money, and influence.
It’s possible for age-gap relationships to be healthy, I absolutely believe this.
But I don’t believe it in the case of Kiedis with his history of raping children.
True, this particular pedo is still a pedo. Note that my life stage analysis still holds true for this and previous improprieties.
My point was to question the power imbalance phrasing. I think that should be retired in favor of something that is more reflective of (in my opinion) actually predatory relationships. Life stage is almost a structural, inherent power imbalance. Power imbalance on its own can just reflect a difference in decision making.
I prefer the campsite rule myself:
The Campsite Rule, coined by sex advice columnist Dan Savage, states that older or more experienced partners in an age-gap or unequal relationship must leave the younger or less-experienced partner in at least as good a physical and emotional state as they found them
The fact that limited to people with less power than you makes me confused…why not everyone?
It is for everyone, but especially with power imbalance relationships.
to know that they’re taking advantage
Not everyone agrees with the premise, so it doesn’t follow. Sex and romance are not inherently harmful, and relationships with large age-gaps are not inherently harmful either. Society would do well to stop treatiing sex as taboo. That is harmful.
This situation is inherently predatory. A much older rock star has a lot more power than a 19 year old in many, many ways.
That doesn’t at all make such a relationship “inherently predatory”, but you’re free to believe whatever tf you want.
Yes it does. He has significantly more money, fame, and influence.
Sex and romance are not inherently harmful. Having more money, fame, or influence than one’s partner does not make the relationship predatory. I’ll repeat: Society would do well to stop treating sex as taboo. Sexual stigma is terrible for us all.
Treating all sex and rape as inherently good and healthy is wild.
I recently turned 60, and I’ve been on a journey with my health and fitness, having been morbidly obese for more than 15 years. I am now in the best shape of my life. I am more muscular, stronger, faster, have better endurance, etc., etc., than at any other time in my life. 60 year old me could beat 25 year old me’s ass any day of the week. I also have the good fortune of having good genetics for facial aesthetics, and I’m finding that women of all ages are attracted to me. It’s insane. Attraction isn’t logical, it’s instinctual. People want what they want and come up with justifications in hindsight. If you have a handsome face and the body of a Hollywood A-lister, you don’t need money or fame to attract women. It doesn’t matter how old you are, if you’ve got the goods, they want it.
I 100% agree with this, attraction is just as much the animal in us as it is the human. Also, good on you for getting fit, I hope I’m still kicking ass like that when I get to 60. The big difference I think is that you’re probably not out here trying to hook up with jailbait.
I for one don’t give two shits about age gaps after 30, everyone involved has hit their developmental markers and that’s as adult as you get. I’m also not gonna stand between two adults hooking up regardless of development, it’s legal and it’s not my place to kink shame.
Anthony Kiedis though, he wwrote in his autobiography that hr fucked a 14 year old, found out immediately after that she was 14, fucked her again anyways, and them wrote the song Otherside about the experience. Doesn’t matter who he’s dating or what his explanation is, he’s a pedophile and that’s not acceptable.
I’ve not dated anyone under 35, and 30 is my lower limit.
Thanks for clarifying, I was definitely side-eyeing your earlier comment before seeing this one.
Yeah age-gap relationships when everyone is 30+ don’t bother me at all as long as everyone is consenting.
I’ll never miss an opportunity to shit on Anthony Kiedis. But no one did it better than Mike Patton, so let’s just relive one of the most epic public fuck yous in musical history.
In the late 90s, one of Mike Pattons many acts, Mr Bungle, was on tour opening for RHCP. Patton believes it was due to them putting on such a hard to follow set that Kiedis kicked them off their tour stating that they were “Trying to rip off his style.”
What followed was, well, this. Mr. Bungle Halloween Show dressed as RHCP. Pattons way of saying “If I wanted to rip off your style I’d do it like this.” In the video their bassist, dressed as flea, can be seen miming injecting a syringe into his arm.
Patton decided the final piece of his revenge was to get back to the studio with Mr. Bungle. He hired out fucking John Zorn (Saxophonist for Zappa) to produce their new record. They titled it “California” and released ~5 weeks after RHCP released “Californication” as a final statement, to say something to the effect of “THIS is my style. RHCP doesn’t have style to rip off, you’re an easily replicable pop act.”
If you’ve never heard “California”, you owe it to yourself to make it your next full album listen. It is truly one of the best records of all time. Mike Pattons range is frightening.
Oh, yeah, that’s the guy who was the Anger Sphere in Valve’s Portal.
He’s a fucking madman,
Like I said. His range… Is… Frightening
More people should be fans of Mike Patton.
Jfc how does his vocal chords still work?!
As someone who can lay down some pretty brutal growls, it’s technique.
He is an opera trained singer. He knows how to abuse his voice, when to stop, has immaculate diaphragm/breath control, has intimate understanding of sound compression… etc
If I recall correctly kiedis used his connections to get bungle cancelled from some festivals and also got California delayed.
Such a shitty tiny little person who hates that Patton is 100 times the singer than he could ever be. Also Mike seems like he’s not a junkie and generally a decent and nice guy which can not be said about Anthony.
The real insult here is calling John Zorn ‘saxophonist for Zappa’. Zorn was a figurehead of punky jazz-fusion in the eighties’ and nineties’ NYC no-wave scene, and had/was in like fifty projects including seminal ‘Naked City’ and then jazzcore band Painkiller. He also has his own label Tzadik, releasing traditional Jewish music among other stuff.
Patton was on at least seventeen of Zorn’s albums and several non-album releases, and was a guest in Painkiller.
TIL that Zorn played on Zappa’s albums. I mostly knew him from working with Buckethead and Bill Laswell
Actually, that seems to be untrue. There’s nothing about Zappa on Zorn’s Wikipedia page, and nothing about Zorn on Zappa’s and The Mothers of Inventions’ ones, except that Zorn was influenced by Zappa. On Discogs, I can’t find even one record where they worked together, only compilations of various artists.
Idk where the article’s author got that, since I’ve never heard such a claim despite listening to Zorn on and off for twenty years. I straight up read through his Wikipedia page recently-ish, before posting an album of his here on Lemmy.
And now I see the link between Patton and Serj Tankian.
Serj + Buckethead, Buckethead + Zorn, Zorn + Patton.
Serj has said a lot of glowing things about Patton in interviews. Always wondered if they had any career overlap.
Marc Streitenfeld, Serj Tankian, and Mike Patton released a single together, called ‘Bird’s Eye’. Patton and Tankian were both guests on Praxis’ ‘Profanation (Preparation For A Coming Darkness)’, but on different tracks (Praxis is a band of Laswell, Buckethead and Bryan “Brain” Mantia, with various guests including Zorn and aforementioned Mick Harris).
I love Goodbye Sober Day, I didn’t know about the beef with RHCP so that was a fun history lesson
i believe the problem was that in the early days Faith no more sounded similar to early RHCP, and later that Mr Bungle called their album California. As everyone knows, Kiedis is the only one who has the rights to sing about California. To be clear, RHPC are shit compared to anything Patton did.
As stated in my post, California came out after this beef. It was Patton’s final blow to RHCP to title their next album so similarly to RHCP.
But you’re right that Keidis was likely more familiar with Faith No More in his suggesting Bungle was ripping off his style
This is what makes the ‘most public musical fuck you’ so immense. Patton was showing Kiedis that Bungle wasn’t only ‘not Faith No More,’ (which to Patton, sure might have been a bit like RHCP… because it was his pop act. He was trying to make money, not be artistically inportant. And it was still more diverse than RHCP could ever dream of becoming. He was subtly saying “Faith no more was my pop act. You know me through that. Bungle is the real me, these are my friends from high school. And because you’re a twat, the next Bungle album is titled ‘California.’”
I love that album. Once I took a hike around Edinburgh to listen to the entire Bungle discography in order.
As a huge fan of Mr Bungle, Mike Parton and Frank Zappa - I have never heard this before, but I love everything about it.
The fact about Zorn playing for Zappa is untrue, but he deserves plenty admiration on his own (Naked City is his album and then band with the same musicians). He also produced Mr. Bungle’s first album.
One of the biggest regrets I carry today was missing Bungle in their prime. I saw FNM and Fantomas but unfortunately didn’t get off my arse to see Mr Bungle and I should have.
For your post, there was stuff in there I didn’t know. I’d heard about the parody show but that was the first time I watched video of it. As for the meaning of California, yeah I hadn’t heard that. Both California and Disco Volante are masterpieces. Warner Bros thought they were getting another marketable FNM lmao
Thanks for the step back in time. They were great times that we will never see again.
Same. I got to see Bungle in the last 5 years. It was bittersweet that they played nothing off of California. I felt both appreciated and ignored. Classic. Battles opened. It was rad.
Yeah I was torn on going to that one. It’s good stuff but it’s the later stuff that’s my bag. Especially California. That’s a magnificent record that stands up anywhere
Damn I don’t know what it is about Lemmy, but it just brings the pedophiles out of the woodwork. This comment section is bleak.
Yeah, seriously, what the fuck is wrong with people? A 60 year old sniffing around teenagers and young 20 year olds are creeps and sleezebags. It is not laudable, nor is it “evolutionarily normal”, it is a power imbalance. We are humans, not base animals. We can choose to be better.
So you going be Leonardo DiCaprio? Because he may very continue dating young women in his 80’s.
He’s a creep.
He’s gross now for his dating record. We don’t have to wait until he’s in his 80’s to judge him.
For all the free will people purport to have, there are so many people who would much rather not have a choice and wrap themselves in deciet to defend their abhorrent behaviour, rather than actually just choose to be better.
Perhaps everyone is coasting so hard they don’t even comprehend that they can choose
Totes agree. However a majority of society has been conditioned to think those with money deserve what they buy and by extension sociaty excuses bad behaviour, due to wanting to follow.
These chicks would not look twice if they didn’t have fame or money. It is a power imbalance and the old pervs can call it what they want, the young girls can use names like sugar baby to soften it, but it’s still tacky and degrading behaviour.
Man at first I did not understand cause Im late and sorted for score. Its like those Iceberg videos in here the further down you go, the more depressing it gets.
If people wanna talk about his underage girlfriends from forty years ago have at it. Acting like this is at all the same thing is infantilizing the adult woman he’s dating, and it just shows how utterly broken some people’s minds are when the subject of sex comes up.
The sexism and pedophilia openly embraced on Lemmy almost pushed me away completely when I first came here. I’m trying to be the change I want to see here instead.
I’ve seen tankies and extreme libertarians but none of what up mention here.
May I ask if you’re a man?
I don’t particularly identify with any physical sex. I am gay however.
I find AFAB tend to pick up on the subtleties of sexists and misogynists a little easier than AMAB people tend to simply because of life experience.
There’s a lot of misogyny that’s allowed with very little pushback on Lemmy.
I don’t disagree with you and am not surprised. There are a lot of immature people and those who are not able to recognize their own emotions. I tend to be sensitive to such things but may not always be subject to them myself.
I’m sure I have blind spots to some stuff like this that as well. I know I’ve stumbled occasionally with my own husband as he’s a different race than I am. Since I haven’t experienced racism personally, it can be harder to spot immediately for instance.
Like I said though, it hasn’t been enough to push me away completely and I’m working on making the fediverse more diverse :)
I haven’t seen that, personally, I have found the majority here to be rabidly against those things. I was made aware of this particular pedophile right here on lemmy maybe a year ago and stopped listening to their music
I’ve literally seen not one thread on the topic in which pedophile lovers don’t come out of the woodworks. It’s important to remember that a lot of people are on this website because they were banned from Reddit, some of which for good reason.
A very similar conversation about Steven Tyler happened in the lemmyshitposting community that was appalling. There was an incredible amount of defense for pedophiles there, similar to this thread, except those comments were highly, highly upvoted and supported.
The sexism I have experienced first hand. You should see some of the DMs I get.
Ma’am, you do a fantastic job at being the change we love to see.
This is literally my face at 4:20am today reading some of these comments
Edit: Fuck, some nasty people in these comments. I need a joint and it’s not even 5am 🤢
<3
Hahaha that image is perfect.
lol yeah, some folks be nasty and that’s my fave while scrolling
Love me some Seven of Nine 💚
From Kiedis’s Wikipedia article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Kiedis ):
Kiedis acknowledges in his autobiography Scar Tissue that he had sexual relations with a 14-year-old girl when he was 23, before and after learning of her age, in the 1980s. This inspired him to write the song “Catholic School Girls Rule”
….
Kiedis had a relationship with actress Ione Skyein the late 1980s starting when he was 24 and she was 16.
Insane.
We put a dude from my hometown in prison for doing that shit.
Yeh, but did that dude sing ‘Under The Bridge’?
He was gross and it was the 90’s. I’m sure he sang it all the time.
If a consenting young adult wants to be with an old person, more power to them, but these are actually gross and should put him in jail
Then talk about that, not him currently dating an adult woman.
Ugh, so what… Grow up. This is the kind of stuff that should be left behind on reddit.
Nah, reddit is the hive of pedo apologists. Here we give a shit about power imbalances and other things that highlight how previously socially acceptable behaviors are actually fucking awful and should bring social, if not legal, repercussions.
Sure, but there is just one thing in this case - that is the basis of the conclusion. Because, the basis of the premise is… Missing. Only one variable is indicated: age, and that solely doesnt constitute the basis here - in fact its valueless.
But we all already know power imbalance has other factors and inappropriate behaviours can happen despite the age (even same age relationships), right?
In fact, we rather generalise minorities to make ourselves better, despite what the big picture tells us - and that is how discrimination breeds.
Progress is a game of inches and awareness is a powerful tool.
Only one variable is indicated: age, and that solely doesnt constitute the basis here - in fact its valueless.
Absolutely incorrect. The human brain is not fully developed at 18, and that’s a fact. The prefrontal cortex is necessary for the most advanced brain functions such as empathy and extended causal considerations. And it doesn’t finish developing until well into your 20s.
This “age is just a number” argument only works on the uneducated and closet pedos. Get an education.
Absolutely incorrect. The human brain is not fully developed at 18, and that’s a fact
Hold on a minute, at what point where we talking about minors here. The hole point was revolving around adults not people which are <18. I’m trying to understand you, but throwing straw men isn’t going to make your ideals better.
In addition, you seem quite confident in believing the brain develops to your 20s - to the point where you find insults to be a valid strategy. To that I’m going to respond with https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/brain-development-25-year-old-mature-myth.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_matures_at_25_myth.
Before making absurd takes please try to actually educate yourself on your own beliefs - Its OK to be wrong.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3621648/
Among the actual educated community, adolescence is understood to continue into the mid-twenties and your appeal to popsci media does not change that. You’re full of shit. Get blocked, pedo apologist.
Edit: LOL also you formatted your links backwards. Well done.
Among the actual educated community, adolescence is understood to continue into the mid-twenties and your appeal to popsci media does not change that.
But where we actually talking about that. Please think through it for just a second. Moving the goalposts isnt going to get us nowhere considering the fact youre just blindly throwing scientific articles.
Reread the thread again, slowly and carefully. I ain’t throwing insults neither should you. And if you still think there is shit involved: read the articles, look it up on your browser and understand that we aren’t even close to the supposed “pedophilia” you’re so focused on.
Discriminate all you’d like, but I want to clearly understand why youre doing it. Insults isnt going to do much here.
McNally replied: “I’ve seen this. I just accept now that most men, all men, are drawn to – I’m going to be very careful how I say this – significantly younger women. That’s all I’m going to say. It is what it is and I don’t think there’s any getting away from it. We judge it but it’s not going to change.”
Study evolutionary psychology. Men are wired to be attracted to women of prime childbearing age. In our evolutionary history, we reproduced early and died early. Just because we live much longer now doesn’t mean our genetic impulses change. Yes, there is societal pressure to counteract it, but pretending that it doesn’t exist doesn’t do anyone any favors.
Do you think older women go looking for 18 yr old boys?
Or is their evolutionary history just wired different?
Pretending like men aren’t in complete control of their actions sure is a thing you can do.
There’s plenty of biological urges that we expect control over and this is no exception. It’s not biology that made this man rape a 14 year old or date a 19 year old.
Is 19 year old girls looking to date older men because they’re more “mature” and provide more stability a choice or a biological urge? Are they even allowed to make that choice if it one? Or is it a decision others have to make for them?
It seems that some people believe romantic/sexual relationships with large age-gaps are inherently predatory and that it’s the responsibility of the older party in the would-be relationship to infantilize the younger one. Idk how else to explain it than that.
It’s the responsibility of the older party to not prioritize their selfish wants over the well-being of a young person.
It is the responsibility of consenting adults to prioritize their wants and needs while making sure that everyone involved is also consenting. Your comments suggest that people should be expected to infantilize people due to age-gaps. That is wildly unreasonable.
Have you ever heard of the campsite rule when it comes to relationships?
Dan Savage’s “campsite rule” states that if you are in a sexual relationship with someone significantly younger or less experienced, you must leave them in at least as good a physical and emotional state as you found them.
There’s room for age-gap relationships to be healthy.
I don’t think a man who has bragged about raping a 14 year old is having healthy relationships with 19 year olds.
Yeah, in my mid-late 20s I occasionally went for cougars (the largest age gap was a little over 20 years, I was her daughter’s age). I was old enough and stable enough for it to never be this predatory situation. Someone who typically goes for their own age, but is able to be seduced by a grown and stable adult who’s younger than they would consider their age range and is watching out to make sure they don’t take advantage is fundamentally very different than someone who keeps getting older and keeps dating people freshly legal. Or as is this man’s case, eventually his type moves up to being legal.
I’m a huge supporter of young people’s autonomy. I think the age of consent should remain 18. I believe that the main concerning power differential at that age range is legal adulthood and the powers it conveys. But preferring barely legal means I have to assume someone would go younger if they could. And those who make a habit of going for people new to legal and social adulthood can’t be comfortably given the benefit of the doubt.
Like, I know several people who’ve had good relationships/flings with people with a significant age gap, and some who’ve had horrible ones and it’s not hard to tell which will go which way. The main questions are maturity (honestly of both parties) and who’s driving the relationship forward (should be the younger person).
you must leave them in at least as good a physical and emotional state as you found them.
I’d rather not see people as objects. I prefer to see people as people. I think you have a very narrow view on things.
I don’t think
While I’m glad you prefaced the statement with that phrase, I still disagree with you on most of the claims you’re making in this thread.
Why would I bother studying a widely debunked pseudoscience? Might as well study homeopathy and chiropractice while you’re at it.
Men are wired to be attracted to women of prime childbearing age.
Now do the one about how there are different kinds of paedophile, as if it makes some of them ok.
Congratulations, your ad hominem attack was successful.
ok, tell me the number for “prime childbearing age”
“You asked me a question. Now, how am I supposed to keep up with you?”
I only said two comments to you. hardly a hosepipe.
In fact, I take offence to that, at least attribute it to what it is, which is the “Socratic method”
mEn ArE wIrEd
get bent.
Either age of consent is 18 or it’s not.
Something being legal doesn’t mean it isn’t disgusting and predatory.
like american tech companies
That’s your moral position on it. If you want to use a different metric for your life choices, you are free to do so as long as the fit working the existing law.
Forcing others to adhere to your morals is how we get Christofascism states.
Is publicly shaming them forcing them? Or am I expressing my disgust at a 50 year old man taking advantage for his own selfish reasons?
I’m allowed to express disgust.
If only there was a white knight around to actively prevent this adult woman from making her own choices. Is Kiedis her boss or otherwise able to exert pressure forcing her to date him? How do you know she isn’t taking advantage of him? Adults get to make choices you don’t agree with. That alone doesn’t make them disgusting.
I’m not preventing anyone from dating older.
I’m casting judgment on this man for continuously seeking out sexual relationships with people significantly younger than him, this man who has admitted to raping children.
You are questioning the agency of 18 women and for that I will always kindly and respectfully tell you to go get fucked.
I’m questioning the actions of old men preying on others.
You’re defending a man who bragged about raping a 14 year old.
Do you need to pretend I’m defending something I am not because you cannot hold your position while defending the adult women’s choice; the person I am explicitly defending?
If you wanted the discussions to be just about the 14 year old, then you should have kept it to that in your post.
It’s not off topic to talk about this man’s history of preying on people and children much younger than himself.
preying
That is your own characterization which you are applying to all situations involving large age-gap relationships, while again conflating “statutory rape” with “rape”. You’re being intentionally disingenuous.
“statutory rape” with “rape”.
Statutory rape is rape.
Whew way to fucking tell on yourself here.
You do know the age of consent is not universal and there are countries where 14 year olds are legal? If we were to take your thought process to its logical conclusion you’re okay with fucking 14 year olds, as long as it’s being done in the right country.
What does it say about your stance that you need to create a strawman to attack me?
Weird time for you to want me, an American to push my counties morals on another country. A country you aren’t a citizen either.
Seems you’re the one struggling with the idea of consent for wanting to force your culture norms on other cultures.
I didn’t create a strawman and I didn’t tell you to push American morals on another country. What I did was point out the fundamental flaw in how you set your morals, which is that your morals are not uniform and change based on geographical location. Furthermore basing your morals on laws means you end up with archaic morals because sometimes laws are archaic.
If you didn’t like the age of consent example I’ve got plenty more. For example in countries where gay sex and gay marriage is illegal you think it’s perfectly fine to mistreat gays that way. If you want more American examples of your moral code being wrong there are plenty of fucked up American laws as well. For example you think women not being allowed to have an abortion is okay if those women are in the wrong state. You think modern slavery is okay because apparently penal labor is allowed in the US. Are you going to call all of those examples as strawman to ignore the fact that your moral system sucks ass?
You’re piling on a bunch of unrelated hypotheticals to attack a moral position I never expressed.
That’s your moral position on it. If you want to use a different metric for your life choices, you are free to do so as long as the fit working the existing law.
My bad for assuming the moral position you tell others to take is not the moral position you yourself take.
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And some people think a young girl wearing spaghetti straps is acting promiscuous.
There is a reason we codify some morals and not others.
I don’t feel I need to protect adult women from making her own decisions.
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You’re still conflating two different things saying something is legal and saying nobody is allowed to criticize it.
I’m saying an adult woman’s choice doesn’t become illegitimate simply because other people disapprove of the man she chose. You can think the relationship is gross without treating her agency as invalid.
People seem much more comfortable treating an adult woman’s choice as evidence that something is wrong with her judgment when they disapprove of the man she chose.
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We can discuss the actual scenario, but not before addressing this first.
Your need to control others extends beyond the sexual choices of women. Nice.
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I’m pretty sure it’s actually less than that in most of the world.
This is so funny to me. It’s sexist, straight up. You can dislike it but this is sexist towards women.
When I was 19 nobody would’ve cared if I was with a 50 year old, unless it was a man, because then that’s sinful or something. If I was with a 90 year old woman, people would accuse me of taking advantage of her.
Let people do what they want, isn’t that what this society we operate in is supposed to be about? If I wanna lick 90 year old wieners and buns, let me do me.
And it’s not like you can’t call him out for being a pedophile.
He was literally dating a 14 year old when he was 23.
Call him out for THAT. Not for dating an adult.
Agreed 1000%. Bigger fish to fry.
