Im tired of this guy already.
Foisting the problem onto a political system that is bought and paid for by the very people that’d be subject to the tax? Sounds like he’s scapegoating.
Hear me out. The point is that a state tax can be evaded if the billionaire moves out of state while a federal one is unavoidable unless the billionaire moves overseas; those can still be monitored via FATCA to an extent.
Oldsom
boom gottem
“I reject the tax that can pass, but support the tax that’s impossible” is the same thing as being opposed to the tax.
Hell it’s not even about the difficulty tiers, it’s I oppose the one that falls in my juristiction, I support the one that’s above me. Please put me in charge of the country and I’ll support it… or raise the same objection just saying it will drive businesses overseas and hold out for a global wealth tax.
or raise the same objection just saying it will drive businesses overseas and hold out for a global wealth tax.
That one is much easier to give teeth to though. Any individual or corporation who flees to an international tax haven will be barred from entering the US, doing business in the US, or participating in US markets.
Any assets in the US will be seized, any US protected intellectual property will be made public domain, etc.
How will California enforce theirs?
You see… They can’t actually take all that land they own or the entire corporation they own and move all of it.
They don’t actually want to leave.
There won’t be any flight to enforce against. I guarantee it.
But CA wouldn’t have grounds to seize land from a corporation, nor could they garnish corporate profits (particularly ones that are most likely based in Delaware), in order to extract funds from one person. The corporations of billionaires are still owned by shareholders, and again, you are getting into Federal Interstate Commerce laws.
Hell even the personal residences are probably not ‘owned’ by the Billionaire.
You know California has eminent domain laws… right? That’s literally the point of those kind of laws.
They don’t have to seize it to enforce the tax, they can seize it for unrelated reasons.
Further, eminent domain was made easier to do via a Supreme Court decision during the Bush admin in 2005.
“Oh well the State has plans for this property, so take a hike. Eminent domain, bitches.”
That is definitely not the point of eminent domain laws, and it certainly is not that easy.
Even if California won an eminent domain case like that (which would be extremely unlikely), they’d still have to pay through the nose for the property they took.
“Oh well the State has plans for this property, so take a hike. Eminent domain, bitches.”
You have no business being in this conversation if that’s your understanding of ED cases in the US, let alone in California.
Truly one of the most uniformed takes I’ve ever heard.
they’d still have to pay through the nose for the property they took.
My grandparents had their farm taken in California via ED. I can tell you that they didn’t pay through the nose back then. Perhaps things have changed, but what they got wasn’t even close to going rates.
Land is just an empty lot now, too.
Look man, we’re at a point where laws obviously don’t mean what they’re supposed to mean and entire swaths of the fucking country abuse laws to get what they want, citizens be damned.
All I’m suggesting is we play hard ball, too. Why is it that Republicans are allowed BY DEMOCRATS to get away with shit. A replacement for McConnell should have been seated WEEKS AGO and then make the Republicans take them to court about it. But I mean I guess we should just be taking the law as sacred when the people beating us with sticks obviously don’t and are using their abuse of the law to get away with beating us with sticks with no consequences. But sure, playing by the rules in a system where the other party isn’t is sure to work out! Pro-tip, the rules are made up, the constitution was written by people, it’s not some perfect document handed down by fucking God and it’s clear that it is fundamentally a broken document by how its bee abused. The rules can change, and we shouldn’t be so pussy that we are afraid to change them to fight fascism.
This is a ONE TIME tax and Newsom doesn’t even have the balls for that! Just another Democrat rolling over without a fight.
The billionaires will never stop their fight to dominate and control. Every time we give up we’re just letting them steamroll us. They will break every law, tell every lie, and propagandize the populace. But sure, we can’t do one measly thing to help citizens because the billionaires might get mad and what, fight us in court? Oh no! They own the courts and plenty of us are tired of this shit.
I’m tired of being called a Nazi by Europeans and Canadians because everyone in this country is too pussy to stand up to fascism beyond signs and slogans and doing it alone is a death sentence being shot in the street by ICE.
Who is the uninformed one anyway? The one who recognizes we’re in a fascist state, or the one still pretending we can just “trust the system.” Your head is in the fucking sand, bro.
A state tax like this has absolutely no teeth. It’s ridiculous to think that any Billionaire would stick around and donate 5% of their net worth to California.
Unless California also includes a provision that any Billionaire who’s found to have fled this tax will be arrested and charged with something that carries a significant mandatory minimum prison sentence, this law will just be theater.
While they are mentally unwell money hoarders, even by that standard it is a bit ridiculous to uproot your entire life over 5%. Even the wealthy have friends, family, places they like to eat, preferred hooker burial sites, etc… and losing ready access to keep some discretionary income that would leave you checks math still absurdly wealthy is bonkers. That and if they’re moving a business it’s a whole other can of worms. Yeehaw move to Texas and find out how crooked the state’s regulations are and how a majority of people around you are not mentally developed enough to function in society- including maybe the person who cooked your meal or rotated your tires.
I could have sworn that it also included language that applied the tax if they leave the state, too, but even if that’s incorrect, who cares? Let them move. The more states that do something like this, the less places they’ll have as “safe havens” and if they move out of the country, cool, again, let them. It sends a clear message: If you won’t pay your share, we don’t want you here.
Once everyone collectively agrees that billionaires should pay their share, there will be nowhere left for them to run. It has to start somewhere.
It sends a clear message: If you won’t pay your share, we don’t want you here.
Once everyone collectively agrees that billionaires should pay their share, there will be nowhere left for them to run. It has to start somewhere.
Republican states will never do that. They Iove billionaire boots. For many of them, being a tax haven is the only thing of benefit they can provide.
Unless we overhaul the Interstate commerce act (an article I power… So unlikely) to limit their ability to do business or ship product to/from/through Blue states, we will lose in Federal Courts every single time.
Good let them go. The businesses don’t go with them, you can’t take the property or the infrastructure. They leave, they leave it all behind, it gets broken up and sold off, everyone who matter wins
Again, that’s not how this works.
California can’t just seize corporate assets owned by multiple interested parties in order extract funds from one individual.
That’s the whole issue with this toothless law, California can’t enforce it. Even if they’re able to seize a couple residences, the property in them, some vehicles, etc. There will be decades long court battles over those assets, and they still won’t add up to the hundreds of millions of dollars that a multi-billionaire would be responsible for under this tax.
You heard it here folks. Time to give up!
Darn, guess governments can’t do anything, may as well not try.
a state one has a good chance of passing and becoming reality in california… a federal one does not, not in a political environment where just a few ‘donations’ or other ‘favors’ can swing a vote in congress.
Paying federal tax does not exempt anyone from state tax… This is insulting believing Californians would ever fall for this.
Some states don’t have any state income taxes.
Newsom’s a tool, but it’s very obvious why this is the line he’s walking. And it’s not to pull one over on his constituents.
He’s pushing for a Federal tax over a state one is because a state one will just push billionaires to other states. Billionaires are certainly not stopped by a state line, a law without teeth is just theater.
We absolutely need a federal wealth tax, along with consequences for individuals and corporations that flee to international tax havens.
a state [tax] will just push billionaires to other states
I don’t know about you, but I take comfort in that.
CORRECT! A ONE TIME Tax is going to ANNIHILATE the
Major Taxpayers!Major Job Creators!People who pay the least tax while taking the MOST Welfare!I’m not claiming it will. I’m claiming that California has no means to enforce it.
Historical consequences of a wealth tax:
Country Outcome Key Effects Status France Low revenue, capital flight Millionaire emigration; investment decline Repealed (2017) Sweden Avoidance, offshore assets Wealth moved abroad Repealed (2007) Denmark Distorted savings High admin cost Repealed (1997) Germany Legal + admin issues Hard-to-value assets Suspended (1997) Norway Still active Some relocation; moderate revenue Active Netherlands, Austria, Finland, Iceland Similar issues Low yield, high avoidance Repealed In other words, it’s just bad tax policy, hard to track and introduces administrative burden, and encourages further obfuscation. Alternative: Income tax reform is a better solution.
Relocation of billionaires is a good thing if nothing else to kill their credibility that they in any way shape or form give a fuck about this country. Secondarily it also makes them easier to sanction.
It looks like your information was sourced from the Tax Foundation, which apparently has a murky history of cherry picking economic data to solely support business-conservative causes in Europe. The Reception section of their Wikipedia page will get you started on how much to trust them for accurate analyses. Just FYI.
I encourage you to provide a list of countries where it isn’t repealed and is effectively working.
California already taxes high earners more than any other state. I think the idea that a further wealth tax (which I wholeheartedly support) would be more easily avoidable at the state level.
I have no doubt Newsom is speaking from both sides of his mouth on a difficult political problem for him, but all else being equal a federal wealth tax is a better idea than a state one.
In theory a federal one is better but it’s unrealistic. It’s going to be hard enough getting a state wealth tax passed, it’s essentially impossible to get a federal one passed. For that to happen you’d need to give Democrats complete control of both houses of Congress and the presidency, and even then it would be a struggle. With Republicans in control of anything it’s a complete pipe dream. So rather than going for the perfect solution that isn’t going to happen anytime soon it’s better to go for the imperfect one that has a good chance of actually happening.
Hell, even with both houses and the president there still SCOTUS to deal with.
Remember that this tax is a one time tax, and he’s not even willing to pass that.
Newsom is turning into that 1990’s republican we all knew he could be: taking all his policy ideas and watering them down so they can be defeated easily
Next step: Oppose federal billionaire tax, embrace global one.
Billionaires don’t become billionaires without access to US financial institutions.
Let alone the amount of assets and intellectual property that the US can seize and nationalize when someone does try to flee.
It may not seem like it under Trump, but the US is still a global superpower. If the US actually decided to hurt those who flee to tax havens, it would change the world, every other country to tried to implement a wealth tax and failed could now do so. Billionaires who fled could be locked out of the western world.
A state-level tax can be dodged…a federal level tax can’t be…
I see his logic, but think “Both” is the best option right now… Do what you can until you can do what you must.
Billionaire tax will never happen in any form under Newsom.
‘Not Today Newsom’
He always talks a big talk but when it’s time to put up or shut up he always shuts up.
A liberal lawmaker engaging in false dilemma fallacy, that’s so uncharacteristic of them /s
