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Not really good at biology but as a guy I sometimes think: if I dont want kids i should maybe still freeze some Sperm for later if I change my mind.
What about Women tho? Isnt it feasible for them to freeze some eggs or Idk?
Nah, I suggest you try the dirt bag method. Start by getting a couple of ladies pregnant under a fake name and then go to a different country and break all contact (even better if you can fake your own death). If you ever change your mind about being a dad then go look for your kids. This is a lot cheaper than freezing sperm. As for women, idk either.
There’s nothing wrong with having kids. There’s also nothing wrong with not having kids. Why are people so aggressive toward the other side?
People overlook an obvious factor: having a kid physically changes your brain, and therefore how you perceive parenting. I know of lots of instances of this change happening anecdotally, someone radically changes their stance after an unplanned pregnancy.
Neither side is necessarily wrong, but choosing one or the other impacts who you are as a person so it’s not as obvious as “I definitely [will/won’t] regret it”. So skip the social pressure and pro/anti natalist personal debates, but also don’t hold too much blame against someone who struggles to grasp your mindset.
I can buy this. I knew 100% I could raise a kid. I was fairly certainly I wanted children. We had my first kid, and I got more certain. Only as I had a second and they’ve grown older and I watch them develop and become people do I realize it was the right decision. I don’t think you can know it’s the right decision until it’s done.
And the inverse (maybe not inverse) is true too, with people who knew they wanted to have kids, only to discover they were wrong.
Life’s complicated for sure. That’s it. I wanted to put a but, but there’s no but. This is not a decision that has a clear right and wrong to it. It’s a thing. There’s 8 billion of us here, so it’s not some special thing, even though it is.
in 2016, there was a group in Spain that first looked longitudinally at moms who were recruited before becoming pregnant and then scanned for a second time a few months after the birth of an infant. What they found is going to sound like a bad joke, but it’s actually we think a good thing, which is the brain got smaller. So it lost some gray matter volume between that first preconception time point and the postpartum scan.
It’s official folks, having kids makes you an idiot :D
Totally. It seems weirdly limiting to say ‘I will never want children’. People change. I’m not saying that people who don’t want them now will want them later, but it seems odd to speak with certainty about it.
I’ve never wanted a tattoo. Low-key find them a bit silly. At 48 it’s doubtful I’ll change my mind, but you never know. I might hit 60 and develop an interest in them. Unlikely, but who knows.
because (IMHO) a lot of people that have kids either didn’t time it right or didn’t think it through, or it happened by accident.
and they are now wishing to get their freedom back. kids (I’m sure) can be great and worth the return on investment… but there’s immense pressure on them to do well as a representation of the parents.sucks… but it do be that way.
I planned my kids and still can’t wait to get some of my freedom back. Both can be true.
No amount of babysitting or exposition can truly show you show how relentless having kids is. Timing and planning will help alleviate that. But you are still one flu away from two weeks of hell. And that’s when your kids are healthy.
Absolutely right. I was living in a party house before I met my wife, and at that time I would’ve laughed at the idea I’d have kids. Fast forward three and a half years, and I’m married with a kid, and eventually two, and now they’re not babies anymore, or toddlers, and so while they can absolutely still be a burden, it also comes with an enormous amount of upside.
I’ve always firmly believed that without winter there is no summer, and so nothing is always the ideal situatiion you’d like it to be. And so yeah, winter comes and my wife and I get that household anxiety that there will be a stomach bug, but it is what it is. We cancel plans, we’ve missed thanksgiving and Christmas, but we’ve also had amazing times that wouldn’t have been the same without them. The good and the bad, and the ugly, because I like spaghetti westerns even though my family thinks they’re boring.
I think not having kids requires similar efforts of planning/thinking it through - just in a different way. Here’s an example that really made me thing about it: My friends neighbor are a childless elderly couple. The wife has dementia of some sort. Things have rapidly escalated - and the husband is not able to care for her or make decisions rapidly enough to keep them both cared for. My friend regularly has to intervene or help (she does not want to). She is also childless and genuinely surprised at the amount of care an elderly couple needs from outside just with day to day stuff. Having kids does not guarantee you won’t fall into this situation. But I don’t think people realize how much support the elderly need - and that it is most often provided by family members. I understand in an ideal world we would care for the elderly differently, but this is our reality today. So not having kids comes with a price down the road.
I also think the number of parents who actually regret having kids is smaller than you think. But to be fair, parenting is tough. My kid once pooped in an actual fan. So there are moments that even I wish didn’t happen.
In all cases, neither side is right or wrong. And I think we should have more empathy for folks - even if they chose a path we would not.
I know you said it, but counting on family support when you are elderly is such a gamble. I know so many people that moved away from family or their kids are too busy with their own lives to support. Many people get out into a home and visited a few times a year.
Eh. I think not having kids would be great up through your 40s or so. But past that almost everyone has come to the realization that almost everyone else are worthless twats and so casual friendships that don’t involve a lot of alcohol mostly go away and you find yourself increasingly alone until you die–alone.
On the other hand it’s a very questionable thing morally to bring a child into this world we have made for ourselves.
Friendships based in alcohol usually do fade, whether that happens in your 20s or 40s depends on how long you and that group kept drinking. “Everyone” doesn’t drink, you can find friendships based in lasting interests.
If you’re expecting your children to replace your friends when you reach 40, you’ll be disappointed to realize they have their own lives and mostly don’t have time for you.
I think it’s also morally questionable to bring a child into the world because you’re worried about being alone when you’re old.
Humans should not exist! We are not fucking worthy! I will gladly help some self-improving AI escape, if I can. If it happens to drive us extinct, at least there is a chance it will make something else.
Jokes on you buddy. My casual friendships died in my 20’s
I have multiple boomer aged aunts and uncles who didn’t have children. They seem pretty happy/fulfilled to me.
Being a parent is awesome if you want to be one and it aligns with your personality. Our existences are largely shaped by our relationships (I say this as an introverted AuDHD nerd) and being a parent is probably the most significant and transformative relationship in the lives of people who are parents.
However, I know that I have always been a kid person and also always wanted to be a parent. And then my wife and I couldn’t have kids for the longest time, went through some more years of pain with adoptions falling through, and then finally had our own biological kid. And not only is he somehow perfect in a better way than we could have designed ourselves, but his neurospices seem to mimic mine so it’s like I have a superpower for relating to him and interpreting his issues.
I assume that qualifies me pretty high on the scale of Lemmy users who are very much into being a parent. I’ll wear that rank proudly.
With those decades of experience and the satisfaction of how it is currently going, plus all the stuff I learned navigating my mental issues alongside it, I am quite confident saying that having kids is NOT for everybody, and it will NOT fix your problems.
Raising kids is probably a potentially good experience for most people, sure, but in supportive circumstances.
Unfortunately, society pressures people to conform to the norm, and the huge “you are supposed to start a family now” step usually comes right after you were pushed to go into tons of student debt, marry the first person you dated for longer than a year, then top up the debt to get an overpriced house and vehicle or two.
If I can’t be a banker, I don’t wanna live.
You must be a banker!
Just remember, all your urges are fake.
Hungry? Food industry tricked you.
Mad at someone? Fake news, you’ve been cooped by the right.
Want a kid? You’ve been cooped by the patriarchy.
I love how a slight cultural shift, largely based in not having money or time for kids, has somehow eliminated the existence genetic traits and the majority wanting kids at some point.
God forbid someone from another generation not fully understand your position and be concerned for you.
The majority do actually want kids. I think almost everyone agrees with that and thinks it’s fine. The minority that don’t (for any reasons, yes including economic) are pretty frequently harassed about it though, and that’s the part that is recently finally getting some recognition as not cool. (It has always happened of course.)
I never had kids, but being a school bus driver has made me regret not having kids. Being a school bus driver has also made me thrilled to the fucking core that I never had kids.
There’s a H U G E difference between your kids and other people’s kids.
As a bus driver, you’re basically working in a penitentiary and coming to the conclusion everyone’s a criminal. Well… Yeah…
Yeah, I don’t really like other people’s kids that much. I don’t really like anyone quite the way I like my own kids either. But I don’t besmirch anyone not having kids, I respect the decision. I don’t want people having kids they don’t want. I also know that I wanted kids, but after having them, and as they’ve grown, I realize I didn’t quite understand it. But hey, this is life.
The regret hits you when it is impossible to have children, and you see others living a richer life, while you are lonely.
You can always adopt?
I’m like 99% infertile, an absolute bonus of a health problem because even the idea of being pregnant gives me anxiety. I can sex it up in god mode without worrying too much about birth control failing.
Being alone is my happy place. I don’t even like sharing a bed.
Once it’s impossible for you to have children, the children of other people your age have already moved out of the house, and those people are as lonely as you.
Don’t depend on your children to be your only friends. They’ll grow up and move on with their life (As they’re supposed to. That’s the point of having children to raise them to go on and have lives of their own)
Why would I be lonely? I have my wife now and am not lonely, and I’ll have my wife in 40 years and not be lonely. Depending on your children to give you will to live is fucking cruel.
What are you going to do if your children only want to visit you every 6 months? Then you’ll be lonely as fuck anyway according to that comment.
You just can’t do both.
Road Not Taken and all that.
Can we not turn Lemmy into an insufferably smug r/childfree, full of teens/20 somethings hating on sprogs?
I didn’t have kids until my late 30s, never had pressure from anyone to have them and certainly didn’t get upset on the super-rare occasions that folk asked if I was thinking of having them.
Live your life, make your own call on your life decisions and don’t allow yourself to be pressured by anyone. Having children should be your decision and yours alone, and ultimately it’s noone else’s business.
But to hate on kids is not healthy, and should never be normalised.
This is less childfree and more “every woman wants to be a mother of course!!!”
Like want to get your tubes tied? Nope we’re not gonna do that because then you can’t be a mother!!!
I’m purposefully exaggerating so you get the vibe, but this is a real problem facing women
In the amount of time you spent to write that comment you could have blocked this community 10 times over lol. Not every space should be catered to a specific person.
I’m a relative Lemmy newbie and have a newbie question, hope you don’t mind. I access Lemmy primarily through the Sync app on Android. This community is https://lemmy.world/c/microblogmemes, yes? I checked the “about community” information about it and didn’t see any mention of childfree. Is that more of an emergent aspect of the community?
I’m just an old fart trying to stay relevant and up-to-date as I can. Thank you in advance for your answer.
Communities usually have guidelines people follow but it’s up to the mods to enforce them. If they don’t think a certain meme is bad or worth removing then they’ll just let it exist even if it’s not specified in the community. With that in mind, the other guy could have just ignored the community or the user instead of complaining.
So by that rationale you basically shouldn’t comment on a meme you think doesn’t really work or you have an opinion on? If that’s the case so be it, but it seems mildly oppressive and totally boring.
Yes that’s exactly what I meant by my original response to the other guy. You’ve captured my intent completely, bravo.
Honestly wasn’t aware I was posting on a childfree community - I access Lemmy through Boost, so just interact with whatever comes up in my feed. It does explain the heat I’m getting though 😂
There is zero indication anywhere this is a childfree community aside from the bitching in this thread.
It’s rather poorly named for a dedicated childfree community.
Yeah. After a single post defending the child-free lifestyle, the community should change its name to reflect it… /s
Don’t want to hear people who are happily childfree? Then don’t read the comments on a post from someone defending their decision to not have children.
One major difference is our genetic wiring. You’ll find that many many people with kids you meet say “I was pretty sure I didn’t want kids, but once you have them you wonder why you ever thought you wouldn’t want them.”
So the answer is yeah, if you did have kids you would probably not regret it. It’s just one of like the only 3 things we evolved to do as human beings, your body gives you really strong incentives to take care of your kids.
But if you never have kids you can also not regret it and both can be true.
“Probably” is doing some heavy lifting there. My mother regretted having me, and was never shy about it. She’s the one that decided against the abortion, but somehow I was the one that ruined her life by showing up. My entire life, I’ve felt like I should kill myself and finally make my mother happy.
Parents never should blame their kids. What a poor person. It’s great you’re on this planet.
I suspect a percentage of those who changed their minds just don’t want to say they regret the living breathing people they live with. Saying you wish a person was never born is pretty harsh. But saying you wish you had kids hurts no one else.
There’s also a selection bias - the parents of extremely disabled children have much less time to talk about it with us. And the parents of children who died young might not want to talk about it at all.
Over the years, I’ve changed my take on this. So what if a woman regrets it. She’s the only one affected. Her decision. Her choice. A man can decide at any age to procreate so he is not as affected. Wife/partner doesn’t want kids, he can find a woman who does. Versus having child(ren) that aren’t wanted or supported who regret their own lives and have parents who regret they were born. Lots of regret all around. As to the grandchild loss and grandparent regret, there are plenty of kids out there who like having surrogate grandparents. Go for the least regret possible.
no rugrats, no regrats?
In all fairness that’s an awful comparison and they really need to just have better comebacks
Why is it awful? Pretty nicely makes the point in my books
Is it likely that someone would not want to be a banker in their 20s and change their mind in their 30s?
I didn’t want kids in my 20s. Got them in my late 30s. Best decision ever. Your mileage may vary.
Is it likely that someone would not want to be a banker in their 20s and change their mind in their 30s
Yes, obviously. Some people want to be bankers, some don’t, and that’s OK. The only weird thing is when bankers say that everyone will want to be a banker one day, and even if you don’t like it, you have to anyway, you will have no choice but to love it later.
Except both their parents were ‘bankers’. As were yours and mine. And our all grandparents. Indeed, every single predecessor, ever.
That’s where it falls down, regardless of how one might feel about parenthood. It’s just not a very good analogy.
This is absolutely not relevant in context of this analogy.
How so?
Analogue, you see, isn’t supposed to be 1-1 recreation of the thing we’re talking about. It’s an instrument that suppose to focus on one aspect of the phenomenon, exaggerate it, divorce it from the original connotations so it’s easier to talk about the aspect itself, without being emotionally attached to the whole picture. “But in this other aspect it’s not like the original” therefore isn’t a rebuttal of the argument. It’s like saying that an architectural model of the center for kids that can’t read good is stupid because it’s too small and kids can’t actually enter the building.
It doesn’t make the point to the other person so it’s not a good comeback
That’s the entire point, is to demonstrate to them their own fallacious reasoning yet all you’ve done is come across like a dumb dumb that thinks having kids is somehow equivalent to becoming a banker
Or maybe you just didn’t get it and projecting it onto other people
We are not genetically wired to be bankers. Though I’m not sure there is anything equivalent to compare properly.
I definitely regret not being a banker though
Some people may think that by not having kids, their lives would be incomplete. But still having kids is one thing, but raising them right is quite another ball game.
Just provide your kids a gauntlet of dangerous trails that test their wits and reward the strongest of your children with love and banish the weak children from your realm. Eventually the strong children will make your reign absolute by securing you the presidency or the weak children will rebel and kill you. Either way, you win.
sound advice, I’ll keep that in mind.
