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Let’s go!
Will piefed.ca follow suit?
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Yes, please.
Is there some glitch in the viewership stats, or is that really how many users they have?
The instance is only a few hours old, maybe less. No one else than the admin has registered so far. It will probably stay that way lol
Not now that multiple instance admins have told everyone they exist.
One person has registered and is diligently posting antifascist and anarchist content, and the admin is arguing with them, which is amusing.
Yes. Build a wall.
And make MAGA pay for it!
proceeds to send them the invoice
Good luck with that - Trump never pays his bills, & I expect no different from MAGAts.
B-B-BuT tHe ToLeRaNt LeFt!!!
It’s not now or never, but why wait?
They have mistaken the left’s tolerance for weakness. Now they will find out that we can fight, too.
As both a Canadian and an American, yes please. Nothing good comes out of MAGA.
Same situation, same answer. Fascists and nazis must be deplatformed. Let them have their echo chamber all to themselves. Defederate.
How . . .
Dual Citizenship maybe?
Yah I forgot Canada was a civilized nation.
Plus all the fascism down here makes us stupider.
Hey, be fair, they’re working on their own brand of fascism in Alberta (from what I read). It’s just as terrible but with maple syrup, probably!
/s
Ding ding! Born Canadian, but lived in the US for over a decade, including starting a family (which prompted my application for citizenship). I moved back to Canada a bit ago.
No. Hearing and understanding opinions with which we disagree is part of being a functional adult.
If we end up having a situation where they spam with hate speech etc, that’s different but just being conservative? I’d like to hear what they have to say.
John Stuart Mills put it better than I can:
He who knows only his own side of the case, knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side; if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion.
I was going to say something about wanting to avoid echo chambers and then… I read the post history from the admin over there. sighs
I think it’s appropriate to defederate. Doing so doesn’t stop their admin, or anyone else, from creating an account on any other instance. Play by the rules of civility in the fediverse and no worries. If they can’t, then it will be dealt with via bans.
If they want a maga island to themselves, then so be it.
I took a glance at their post history, didn’t see anything too horrific or hate filled. I strongly disagree with their stances on immigration etc but at a glance, didn’t see anything terrifying.
The question isn’t about banning a user but of defederating an instance. If that particular admin wants to participate elsewhere, there’s no reason why they can’t so long as they can abide by the rules.
And so far, no one has given an example of the harms or bad behaviour that would warrent defederation. It’s just been “I disagree with them so defederate.”
I think the concern is the stated nature and purpose of the instance. It’s almost certainly going to draw the kind of users and content that would be problematic.
The purpose of this post is to determine if our instance should preemptively manage the anticipated problem. Far left instances have been similarly defederated alongside other problem instances.
Anyone is free to join that instance. And any user from that instance is free to create a federated account with any number of instances to be a part of the greater fediverse. So long as they follow instance and community rules, they’re free to participate with everyone.
Honestly, this is an age where we really need to be working on deescalating as much as possible.
Honestly, this is an age where we really need to be working on deescalating as much as possible.
I fully agree. And I would hope part of that de-escalation would be finding common ground with those with whom we disagree.
Instead of forcing the individual users to come and be yelled at one at a time, I’d love for them to have a place so we can start some sort of talks, even if it’s just stupid shit like what video games they like. I dunno. If we can’t find common ground then it’s just two sides trying to destroy each other until it’s too late to solve our actual problems.
Why should anyone be forced to listen to Nazi bullshit. Fuck magats. Nazis have only one place in the world, 6 feet under.
American conservatives arent good faith debaters.
And they feel much the same way about us. Almost like the only way to resolve the differences is, I dunno, discussion.
Debating someones right to live isnt a discussion.
I’m assuming you’re talking about trans rights?
Show me where that exists in anything published by the trump campaign or project 2025.
As far as I understand, neither have said “we will murder all trans people.”
These sorts of claims are exactly why I’d like to hear what MAGA has to say. It’s just the same as people who claimed Harris was going abolish private property; undoubtedly some of her supporters were from our crazy Left fringe but to conflate them with her was, at best, mind numbingly stupid.
That doesn’t work on the internet. Without face-to-face interaction the ability to empathize with the other side is lost. We’re NPCs, just random encounters in the posting RPG. I’m someone that deserves to die and there’s literally nothing I can say or do that would change their minds, they just want to collect my posts for their cringe compilations and bully me until I kill myself.
You can’t empathize with anyone unless you can see them face to face? That seems worrying.
I think a lot of people empathize without meeting people, witness y’know, the mass complaints and protests about Palestine. I don’t think that many folks have actually been to the Gaza strip.
We see videos coming out of the Gaza strip. Maybe “face-to-face” was overstating it, but we really do need to be able to see and hear people to make them real in our minds. We struggle to empathize with random strings of text on a screen.
You can still do it if you try, but when you’re “debating” people the relationship is inherently antagonistic. People usually aren’t going to try to empathize with the enemy, they’re going to try to win. That’s why debating on the internet does not work.
Watch, you’ll now keep arguing with me because I can’t convince you of anything, because I’m an NPC in the posting RPG. Your goal here isn’t to listen to anything I have to say or trust that I have literal decades of experience arguing on the internet at this point, your goal is to defeat me and gain upvotes. I’m not real, I’m just something getting in your way.
Your goal here isn’t to listen to anything I have to say or trust that I have literal decades of experience arguing on the internet at this point, your goal is to defeat me and gain upvotes. I’m not real, I’m just something getting in your way.
That’s a wild assumption. If I cared about upvotes, I have trouble imagining an approach more destined to fail than arguing for MAGA on Lemmy.
I also don’t think everything has to be a debate. I love those and am always happy for it but really, just getting MAGA folks to interact with people whom they wouldn’t otherwise is healthy. I think more good and possibly understanding our shared humanity comes of sharing memes or common interests.
Similarly, if we see the news or the things that are animating them, it’s helpful. (A trivial example from years ago but that opened my eyes, I was pretty on the “cancel culture is a stupid made up complaint” and then while reading the National Review, they referenced “so you’ve been publicly shamed” which broke my heart when I read it. Then my opinion changed a bit.)
Yelling at people on the internet is rarely actually debating and even less often convincing.
Edit: ahhh, sorry, I’m on a phone and see I’ve got a note about you. I’ll end this here.
Have a good day!
Yeah it worked out so well for America that they elected Trump twice and his style of politics has become more popular. But, I’m sure you can do what a nation and the people opposing him failed to do of changing minds through discussion.
How about starting with something easy first like convincing antivaxers to change their minds.
Yeah it worked out so well for America that they elected Trump twice and his style of politics has become more popular.
Oh, I hadn’t realized America was secretly not super polarized and has plenty of actual spaces where people meet, interact and talk with folks with whom they disagree.
Lets ignore Canada almost choosing a prime minister that ran on US style culture war politics or Europe trying to push things like chat control or Germany with a growing alt right movement. Yeah its a roses everywhere in the world.
Lets give the alt right more of a voice its turned out so well.
MAGA and “just conservative” are not the same.
Self-labeling as MAGA is denoting full cult of personality and fealty to Trump. Add the online-ness element, plus the small size of Lemmy in general, and you’re concentrating that presence into a toxic sludge that seeps into the rest of the fediverse a la 4chan/Xhitter trolls.
“MAGA” is not going to change their minds on anything, nor are they looking to meaningfully change ours. MAGA does not argue in good faith, or based on rationality or policy. Red-hatters enter non-red-hat spaces for the purposes of intimidation, feeling superior, and sowing discord. Then they pat each other on the back for “owning the libs” and continue the cycle.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to federate with relentless trolling and become a Nazi bar by means of association.
Red-hatters enter non-red-hat spaces for the purposes of intimidation, feeling superior, and sowing discord. Then they pat each other on the back for “owning the libs” and continue the cycle.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want to federate with relentless trolling and become a Nazi bar by means of association.
Declaring what they’ll do before they’ve done it is pretty silly. Sure, if that instance starts becoming a problem, defederate. But maybe we can hope for the best first?
I respect your point, but 10 years into MAGA’s relentlessly obnoxious online behaviour it seems a little naïve to think it’s at all likely to go differently there.
No real harm in trying.
Otherwise, yay, we’re just in our own obnoxious echo chamber being angry that people don’t agree with us instead of talking with those whom we need to persuade.
The quote from Mills assumes the “other side” has reasons, or is willing to argue in good faith.
I have no problem with conservative communities. MAGA isn’t just a conservative community, it’s a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
I don’t think in our context the point would be to seriously consider the other side. Rather to hear what they’re on about at the moment purely informatively. But if most don’t want that the rest could use alts to check on the crazies.
it’s a hate-driven cult. We already know their reasons, they have nothing else to contribute to a meaningful discourse.
You know, they say much the same about us.
Almost like the way to resolve the situation is actual dialogue rather than just seeing the worst of each side getting thrown up on social media.
For every asshole in MAGA gear that we take as a fair representation of the group, there’s some kid talking about how the only good MAGA person is six feet under and making it look like everyone on the Left is ready to kill anyone who disagrees with them.
I’ve had actual dialogue. For real. Many times, over many years, with many of them.
After you’ve had enough conversations with them, you start to realize that they’re not interested in good-faith discussion. If they were, they wouldn’t be part of the cult. Or in other words, anyone who was interested in good-faith discussion has already left.
I’m not using hyperbole or exaggerating. Any person still wearing the red hat is not interested in anything you have to say. If you want proof, ask anyone from MAGA: “What would it take to change your mind?” I’ve asked this question dozens of times, and I’ve only gotten two answers: “nothing”, and nothing.
It’s good to have the general approach of wanting to hear the opinions of others. But like anything, too much of a good thing can become a bad thing. In this case, the MAGA folks will take advantage of your willingness to platform them, and trample all over you for it. In this case, “hearing both sides” isn’t helping them or you. They’ve made their positions very clear, and they won’t be swayed. There’s realistically nothing they could tell me to sway my position either, because there’s nothing that could override the evidence from the man himself. It’s a useless standoff.
I get wanting to offer the olive branch and resolve things through civil discussion, but realistically there are some cases where that approach hurts more than it helps.
It doesn’t mean we have to resort to violent rhetoric or immaturity (though I understand where those people are coming from too), it means we need to approach MAGA for what it is: a cult. Trying to help someone leave a cult is very different from having a discussion about politics. There are some effective ways to help someone leave a cult, but online cross-community friction isn’t that–it’s only going to get people more divided.
Ironically, sometimes it’s less divisive to simply defederate.
I’m so bored of this “but we need to listen to the opposing view” bullshit. We know what the maga fascists think, we will learn nothing new by putting up with their crap.
And we’ve seen two times what listening to maga and giving people like that a platform to discuss results in. Trump being elected twice and maybe a third in the future.
We have actual real world events of how ineffective it is with networks giving Trump huge coverage when he first appeared.
Yep. That titanic has sailed.
100% this.
It’s like giving nazi’s and child rapists a voice on Lemmy. In fact MAGA is JUST like that.
Something something Venn circle something something
You know they’re just going to ban anyone who goes in there, that isn’t MAGA, right?
I dunno, a quick look through the admin seemed like they were open to stuff with which they disagree. (Looks like one of us was already there trolling and the admin seems to have responded in good faith.)
The downvotes here are stupid. I have a conservative friend and we always ask each other questions about why each side feels one way or another. It is a good way to find common ground. It is also a good way to understand what is going on.
Is your conservative friend part of a hate cult?
MAGA is a hate cult, so yes. I still am interested in his opinion. He is interested in mine. We both think Kirk was a hit to distract from Epstein files. The GOP voted against the release that day. We both also disagree with funding for Israel, but for different reasons. We both are upset that Epstein files have been hidden. He has pretty much turned on Trump because of it.
We are also both really tired of establishment politicians being bought constantly. I dislike most dems now. Especially ones like Pelosi or Shumer. My frind complains about RINOs. You can find common ground.
The difference is my friend is a real person and not a bot. Those conservative forums are filled with rage bots that disable people’s emotional regulation and incite violence. That’s one thing I hope we can keep away. I think liberal rage bots exists too, though.
Mills didn’t live through fucking First and Second World War.
Less well known is the paradox of tolerance : Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies ; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most imwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force ; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument ; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself out- side the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.
Popper, Karl R. The Open Society and Its Enemies: Volume 1, The Spell of Plato. Routledge, 1945
If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant
Allowing people to hear different opinions is not unlimited tolerance.
Is that the only thing you can rebut out of all of that?
It is the only relevant part.
Are these the kind of meaningful debates you have with MAGA?
Yeah, I get similarly silly stuff from the right, where they have readnheard of something but don’t quite understand how it applies, eg:
“I guess you haven’t read the Constitution!”
“Free speech is about government, not public outcry.”
Such is life.
What’s silly about the paradox of intolerance? Why does it not apply to defederating here? I don’t grasp it’s purported lack of relevance.
Allowing a MAGA forum to coexist here isn’t simply allowing “differing opinions” - their “opinion” is known, and it invariably moves us up the rungs on the ladder toward genocide. I say this as someone whose own parents are in the MAGA cult: defederate. Don’t allow that ideology to fester in your community. Have individual discussions with the people in your own life to pull them back from the brink, if you feel safe doing so, but don’t allow that growth in the petri dish that is your collective, or you will wake up with an infection. Set boundaries or get taken over.
and it invariably moves us up the rungs on the ladder toward genocide.
Wow, that is a damn crazy assertion. And exactly why more discussion is a good thing.
Yeah, maybe you should open your eyes and see what trans people and immigrants in this country see: the clear escalation towards genocide both in their rhetoric, and in public policy aimed at separation and detention of the target groups.
I’m sorry, this sort of hysteria and screaming genocide is partially why people discredit the Left even when there are actual, real problems.
Is the treatment of illegal immigrants under Maga awful? Absolutely. But screaming genocide because it’s the worst thing you know, well goddamn, now we just sound dumb. This ain’t moving us to a place where we can figure things out. (You probably can’t have everyone in the world who wants to go to America in America. Conversely, they are still humans and even if they are illegally in the country, sending them to an El Salvadorean prison is heinous.) If we aren’t there to make the reasonable case, no one makes it.
It’s like how the right complains that Christianity is under attack etc and they are persecuted for it. Is that true? No and it makes them sound insane. Are there actual arenas wherein things are harder or tricky for religious folks? Sure! (If you believe the Pope and feel abortion is murder, pretty hard to reconcile that with funding abortion etc.)
I will just leave you with the fact that the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention has issued a warning for the US, and alsp has issued a particular warning for trans people in the US. If you’re familiar with the stages of genocide, that may also help you to see clearly what is going on.
Whether you believe me or think I’m hysterical, i will still be preparing to leave this country at a moment’s notice and be prepared to submit an asylum claim upon arrival in Canada. I don’t think it gets more real than that.
The 1990’s called and want to know if you’ll be a guest on Rush Limbaugh. You won’t actually get to say anything, so no pressure.
Sure. Any chance to get his audience to hear an alternative version. The number of conservatives with whom I chat in real life who have just never heard of various things kind of blows me away. My good buddy was on the “yeah but the Left is more violent” train, we talked about it, I showed him things he hadn’t seen and vice versa. We both learned, grew and revised our opinions.
Same thing could happen for Rush’s audience.
You’re expecting good faith then. Like talking with a good buddy.
No, I’m just confident in the power of reality and facts. It’s why I admire Pete Buttigieg for going on and making the Liberal case on Fox news. We’re not converting anyone who disagrees with us here.
You know we just elected a 34-time fraud convict and adjudicated rapist to the Presidency here, right? Reality and facts weren’t even in the news for the last two years.
But hey - good luck!
You know we just elected a 34-time fraud convict and adjudicated rapist to the Presidency here, right?
Exactly the point. When things are so bad half the country is willing to say “yeah, but we trust him more than the fucking Left” something is seriously wrong.
If we don’t work to figure out how to win folks over, things are going to get much much worse.
My life will be fine kind of regardless but I worry for others.
When things are so bad half the country is willing to say “yeah, but we trust him more than the fucking Left” something is seriously wrong.
The short answer is media. Or as the kids like to say, “propaganda”.
Neither of which are arguable. But I appreciate you wanting to talk with people one-to-one. Good luck there.
Yep. Fuck em
I would. That’s the advantage of federated social media. They’re welcome to their little corner of bullshit, and rest of us don’t have to listen.
I don’t think there’s any value associating with racists, sexists, homophobes, transphobes, or traitors.
So, yes.
Have there been any infringements of Lemmy.ca’s rules [1] by users of Maga Place [3]?
References
- Type: Website. Name: “Lemmy.ca”. Publisher: “Lemmy.ca”. Accessed: 2025-09-22T22:46Z. URI: https://lemmy.ca/.
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[…] - Type: Website. Name: “Maga Place”. Publisher: “Maga Place”. Accessed: 2025-09-22T22:47Z. URI: https://maga.place/.
[…]
[…] - Type: Meta. Accessed: 2025-09-22T22:48Z.
- Maga Place shows that it has 11 users [2].
- Type: Website. Name: “Lemmy.ca”. Publisher: “Lemmy.ca”. Accessed: 2025-09-22T22:46Z. URI: https://lemmy.ca/.
I don’t get that place. It looks like there are 2 users, and the mod is posting lefty articles and the admin seems to be in opposition to that coming from the right.
example: https://maga.place/post/1084
All the posted content is antifascist or anarchist leftish stuff. Seems like the first user has decided to make this MAGA site as offputting as possible to actual MAGA, or to attempt to expose them to saner views. If it becomes a real MAGA space then defederate, and in the meantime pass the popcorn.
On second thoughts, just block it.
I really dont like maga at all but they should have theyre own place as well.
They’ll still have their own place, we just won’t have to deal with them. Defederation doesn’t remove their instance, it just means their content won’t be shared with us.
I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, “no. get out.”
And the dude next to me says, “hey i’m not doing anything, i’m a paying customer.” and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, “out. now.” and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed
Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, “you didn’t see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them.”
And i was like, ohok and he continues.
"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it’s always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don’t want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.
And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it’s too late because they’re entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.
And i was like, ‘oh damn.’ and he said “yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people.”
And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven’t forgotten that at all.
— Transcribed from a series of tweets by @iamragesparkle
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It’s against lemmy.ca rules #1 and #2
