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I play SO many demo or early access games without the Invert Y option, so it’s off to discussions to ask the developer to add that so I can play.
If the first game you ever played with a stick was a flight simulator, then down is up.
I remember playing the original Rainbow Six game in 1998 inverted. Can’t remember why, or if that was the default, but I got used to it and haven’t been able to use the controls backwards since. Besides, if you lean forward you look down - why would controls be any different?
if you lean forward you look down - why would controls be any different?
By that logic, tilting the stick to the left should either make you look to the right, or just rotate the view without actually changing the direction you’re looking in
Tipping makes sense. Idk it’s like if the joystick is the top of your character’s head.
If you see the stick as the top of your character’s head, you’d have to twist it to look left or right. Tilting it would just rotate the image you see under that mental model
I agree. But it still feels right for up and down which is the only thing at issue.
No reason up and down can’t make sense that way and left and right be for rotating a different axis. Like driving a car with a joystick doesn’t mean if you expect pushing forward makes it go forward then logically when you go left or right on the stick you expect the car to strafe.
Wellllll in most driving games you accelerate and brake with the triggers though, and the left stick does nothing on the vertical axis :P
Okay for real though, I’m not here to tell anyone how to game. Use whatever feels right for you, and having the option to invert stick axes is a great inclusivity feature I’d never argue against! I just have a little too much fun arguing with people trying to rationalize something that really just doesn’t need to be rationalized to be valid.
I just have a little too much fun arguing with people trying to rationalize something that really just doesn’t need to be rationalized to be valid
We have that in common.
It seems like there’s an argument for axes of rotation to be made but I can’t find it. Or at least why a sliding window isn’t the optimal steering strategy for first person gaming but I can’t find the race.
To be fair, I am not even (outside of flight based games like aerofighters assault once upon a time) an inverted thumb stick user…
Mind blown. That actually never occurred to me.
Yep. And for me, it changed. I played fps on controller my whole childhood, I was always standard. I started playing less controller and more mouse and keyboard as I got older.
A few years ago I started flying fpv drones.
Recently tried to use a controller again? Whoops I can only play inverted now 🤷♂️
I was this way up to roughly the Xbox 360 era.
And then it just didn’t feel right any more. In fact neither way felt right for a while.
Now I’m a right way up boy.
Or anything on the N64. Nintendo really loved inverted y in the early days of analog.
Yes!. I remember when my brother and I played our first 3D fps (half life), we both agreed it made more sense to invert the y axis. I hadn’t even considered all our history playing joystick flight sims as an influence
Elite, Wing Commander, and Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe shaped me before looking up or down was even a thing in FPS games.
Well first game I played was pacman and down was down!
Same. The first few PC games I played in the mid 90’s were ms flight sim and my dad had the joystick. Then MechWarrior 2. Also inverted by default. Tbh it’s a perspective shift. In most games with 3rd person I usually don’t invert. But if I’m first person I have to invert.
Also probably if you played Descent
There it is. Old guys unite!
I recently built a tp camera rig for a game and in the process completely lost orientation and somehow converted myself into inverted. Games that I had in progress suddenly felt wrong for a while after that. I think I’m just very aware of the camera now instead of the view.
image
This just feels natural. It’s kinda like using “natural scrolling” option on a touchpad. Why would you ever want it to move the opposite direction?
The difference is that most people think of it is moving their face rather than holding a camera.
I exclusively play inverted. I find it also gives better control while playing FPS games.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
I like to imagine inverted players control their character by grabbing a stick on the top of their characters head
It’s more like the analogue stick is representing your characters neck. IRL you pull your neck down to look up, and vice versa.
Sure but then with this perspective, shouldn’t left and right also be inverted??
I care more about the vertical inversion than the horizontal one. Not certain why. Have played with horizontal inversion on before and it didn’t bother me much after a minute or two.
No because when you look left your head doesn’t tilt right. When you look up your head tilts backwards
No your using a reference point at the back of you head to say its tilting back when you look up, if you keep the same reference point for the horizontal axis you are turning the head to the right to look left, etc.
There’s issues with all the analogies. If I tilt the stick left, if it was my neck, then I would roll my neck to the left and I’d need to twist the stick to look around. Perhaps this is the missing control scheme we’ve been waiting for.
You’re a monster
Never heard of the airplane explanation, but I invert both if it’s third person. I’m controlling the camera’s position behind the character, not where they’re looking.
It’s how games with flying should control but that’s the only application it should be used in to me. I believe this since that’s how it works in IRL.
Flying games should have an option to choose regular or inverted.
If you’re into piloting, got a joystick or something - sure, inverted is your choice.
Otherwise it’s just unnecessarily confusing.
Its not so bad, it’s just a context switch. In an fps game you’re changing the direction your character is intending to look. Wanna look left, tilt left. Wanna look up, tilt up.
In a flying game, you’re controlling the attitude of the plane, it helps to think of your joystick being glued to the top of the plane.
I understand that but it’s simply more realistic to be inverted. I am very used to it because honestly most games with flying controls make inverted default anyway.
I’m just completely unable to learn inverted Y.
Any game that doesn’t have an option to make it regular is unplayable for me. Oh, and sadly IRL radio controlled planes are too. I tried two, and both got smacked into the ground and needed repairs.
I can comprehend it when both axis are inverted, but when it’s only one, it doesn’t click.
But why would roll be inverted? For planes you just need to think about the fact you are controlling the airplanes pitch not the camera view, which is why my camera controls are always regular in flight games but then obviously the y axis for flight is inverted. Pitch left roll left, pitch right roll right, pitch forward go down, pitch back go up. I.e. If you tilt the plane to the left it rolls to the left, if you tilt it to the right it rolls to the right, if you tilt the plane back it changes the attitude of the flight path to bring you higher same thing in reverse for pitching forward. I agree with your last statement for fps/tps games though unless both are inverted for camera it just doesnt make any logical sense and instead are trying to map flight controls to a head which just completely looses me.
This is how it works: Push down, nuzzle points up!
Push up, nuzzle goes down!
How can anyone play differently?
I play like that because I’ve used flight simulators. I have no idea why people play the other way.
My friend insisted it was supposed to be played like that. It was my first real fps, so I put in effort to learn it. Too late to change it now.
I used to play inverted. If it wasn’t inverted, I’d flail around helplessly. Then one day, inverted didn’t feel right, and I had to switch. It’s been that way ever since. Sometime during the PS2 era I think. I played equal numbers of PC and console games up to that point. Dunno why it happened.
some old-school players because they learned mouse/controller camera movements on simulators. think what a pilot does when they want to tilt up: they pull, so you pull the mouse toward you, ie “down”
To this day I play flight sims inverted like that, but normal FPS feels unnatural to invert the camera
This is the core option which justifies cross-title configuration in a user profile.
I have to correct Y to inverted in every new game I start playing, there needs to be a global options titles observe.
I have absolutely no idea when I expect the y axis to be inverted or not. Every new game I expect the opposite of how it is.
Did, I guess. For the past ten years. All 3d games make me too sick to play them these days.
Inverted and ESDF is the One True Way
Every time someone tries and pull out the “just imagine flying a plane” explanation all I can think is motherfucker you’re playing a fucking video game
