For those out of the loop, WomensStuff has a women-only rule, where men are respectfully asked to not reply to posts.
I think I remember that post and said you’re correct.
Yayyy, echo chambers! :)
Right… Because a man’s opinion is the only thing needed to stop the echo chamber.
Not at all. People’s opinions don’t mean much anyway, hell not even my own!
If you want a safe space on a public forum, then I highly recommend just making it private.
I have literally seen them delete someone’s comment because they ASSUMED the commenter was a man, when they were in the process of transitioning to a women. This led to the person being very confused, and probably feeling like the community wasn’t welcoming to trans people. Being so heavy handed with the way they mod their safe space has probably alienated more people than they welcomed.
I just think it’s a crappy way to handle things, whether it be men or women. If I ever stumble into a mens only community that is as bad as WomensStuff, I will be sure to say the same thing.
Have a good rest of your day!
Making it private limits visibility. Lemmy has a lot of men on it. A private women’s only space would be hard to find for the limited number of women.
I understand the challenges of that, and the challenges of having a safe space for women (hopefully of all spectrums…), but the way they handle it now is just bad and shouldn’t be encouraged.
If I was a woman transitioning into a man, would I still be welcome? I have the experiences that some women have had, but since I am becoming a man, then does that mean I can only comment in other communities now?
It’s just not a good way to handle things, I’m sorry.
You don’t address the visibility issue. Disappearing is not the solution.
And you aren’t addressing anything I’ve said either, so I think we’ve come to a stalemate.
Have a good rest of your day!
The visibility issue is a direct response to your suggestion to making it private.
I read the trans men issue as a red herring to center men’s voices. I’m not sure about that so I let it fall by the way side.
Your final paragraph just said this is a bad way to handle it. There’s no response here because it’s a valid concluding paragraph if the previous points hold water. Obviously, I don’t think they do.
where did they say a man’s opinion would remove the echo chamber?
when they said it’s an echo chamber based on the fact that men are discouraged from posting.
no they just said “yay an echo chamber” where does it say something about men? maybe I’m blind
ok what do you think the “echo chamber” content refers to?
Subtext is a difficult concept.
you head cannoned your own subtext doofus. all they said was “yay echo chambers”
You added subtext, all they said was…
Determining the meaning from things that aren’t directly stated is LITERALLY what subtext is
🌎👨🏾🚀🔫🧑🏾🚀
Without subtext the only way to read this comment is they are celebrating echo chambers. They aren’t. Subtext is hard.
like I said you added your own head cannoned subtext
And like I said
🌎👨🏾🚀🔫🧑🏾🚀
Every other community is an echo chamber full of men. So leave women their space.
no community is blocking women from posting/commenting tho, I too like comparing apples to oranges, great fruit, both make juice
I just think of Dull Mens Club and how they allow anyone to post there.
The problem with WomensStuff is how heavy handed they are with not allowing anyone who isn’t specific enough to post and comment there. Posting, I totally understand. Removing comments the way they do just rubs me so wrong. It’s just not a good look.
Comments are the primary form of interaction on link aggregation sites. Most mod actions are performed against comments, not posts. The other way makes more sense to me (men could post but not comment), but who would want to post and then be unable to respond?
I feel that women should have an easily discovered place where they can talk about shit that is difficult to talk about online. Because a minority of men make that difficult (I want to believe it is a minority, at least), it makes sense for the community to only be for women. Having the community show up in the All feed is the very best way to make it discoverable. Having it be a private community would vastly limit the accessibility for women who have just joined the fediverse.
Like, if it’s that important, there could be a !WomensStuffOpen that mirrors the other community but is open to comments from men. That feels fair and inclusive without taking away from women having a space for themselves.
EDIT: Although it would probably be ideal to only mirror the posts and not the comments. mirroring individual comments would open people up to harassment.
See, I feel like everyone isn’t actually paying attention to what I am saying.
What I am saying is that these types of communities, where only one group can participate in actual conversation, IS an echo chamber.
It’s like if there was a misogynistic community, where only the most vile of men would want to be, where they only hear bad things about women and say bad things about women.
I’m almost certain that that would be frowned upon by normal men/women/people.
Andrew Tate is a very well known douchebag who literally operates in and on an echo chamber…
Really, it’s just not a good look and that’s all I really have to say. Sorry if it rubbed you the wrong way (not just you, in general) but I will stand by what I said and this: echo chambers, where only one group can initiate and interact, are kind of ruining the whole reason a lot of us left Reddit.
Grow up.
i don’t get why people… well, men… get so bent up over this. I’m a man and yeah seeing a post you want to comment on but seeing a rule that excludes you is a bit annoying but like who cares.
is an askreddit/asklemmy post an echo chamber if it starts with “botanists of reddit/lemmy” and if the rules forced only botanists to reply? ridiculous.
my input is not needed anywhere, let alone everywhere… i can suck it up and let one community go and do its thing without the grace of my comments.
A core part of my values is not excluding people for attributes they were born with. If they’re an asshole, they should be excluded regardless of gender or anything else. I’d feel the same way if it were any other born characteristic being excluded.
It’s like when I see a cybertruck - I disapprove of the driver’s choices, but they had every right to make them.
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I’m allowed to disapprove, and they’re allowed to run the community as they wish.
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Let’s take your example a little bit further than some plants.
I see a community that only allows asians or white people to comment, and actively deletes any comments with any name that even semi looks like a “black username” or a “latino username”.
Would you not call that out as being, well, an echo chamber?
“sorry, pyre, your comment was deleted as this is a whites only community. :)”
It’s just not a good look, or something I want to see here on an open source platform. :/
“why is gay pride ok but white pride bad?” can’t believe I’m having these conversations in the year of our lord current year
Well, no. I think you’re just not listening to what I’m saying, and I don’t really have a better way to get it across to you right now.
Have a good rest of your day!
Have a good rest of your day!
I would like to inform you than ending a comment like this to dismiss further discussion as often as you do is not the most healthy or useful practice.
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It’s called not having anything else to add to a conversation that is going nowhere. It’s not that deep.
But you continue to reply, so you do have something to add
That was literally what you were saying.
Well, aren’t the majority of these replies depressing. Imagine looking at a minority group that tries to make a private corner for themselves and going “yeah but they haven’t heard my take yet!”
Just block the sub if it bothers you and wipe your mind free. That’s all there ever was to it.
I pulled a ban commenting before I knew they were in full echo chamber mode. Nothing of value has been lost. The whole thing though begs the question are there men only places on lemmy? So I can block them as well.
I personally shy away from the idea of binary labels. Whenever you have two opposing extremes, I find hard to believe that someone can be the 100% embodiment of one and 0% of the other. Whether it’s ‘authoritarian/libertarian’, ‘left/right’, ‘straight/gay’, ‘neurotypical/neurodivergent’, or dare I say, ‘male/female’, I see all of these as a spectrum. Whenever binary opposites exist, I believe we all fall somewhere in the middle.
To say that someone is 0% man or 0% woman seems to reinforce the idea that these labels are based on physical characteristics, concrete, and/or absolute. If you believe that personal identity is fluid, and that change is constant, then how can you reckon with the idea of someone being 100% either? It won’t be possible to swing upward passed 100%, so the only other option is down; into the gray area and constantly wavering over time.
As for myself, I might have been born with a penis, but have plenty of characteristics that I would not consider “manly.” I strongly prefer to sit on a toilet to rather than use a urinal, I’ve worn a skirt around my home and fantasized about having breasts and beautiful hair, and my Spotify wrapped from last year classified me as a “pink Pilates princess”. I’m absolutely not presenting these to declare myself a woman, but I suspect each of these admissions would diminish my standing as “man”, especially in a non-anonymous environment.
If anyone was ever unsure about their gender identity, experimenting, or just non-committal to a binary gender assignment, I can see how a having another individual assign this black/white classification on them (and banning them as a consequence) would be incredibly stressful and harmful to their wellbeing. With how gray gender identity can be, it is no surprise if someone in this mindset doesn’t push back with a claim of the opposite binary choice than the sex on their birth certificate. I believe this kind of moderation serves to reinforce conservative societal norms and discourage empathy across the gender spectrum.
I did this accidentally the other day.
gonna be honest, I don’t read the sidebar for 99% of subs that pop up in the all feed. Hell, I didn’t even check what sub I’m in now until halfway through typing this comment.
If the genders were swapped and you find it a problem then it’s a problem either way. Make it private or fuck off.
“HoW wIlL new UsErS fInD iT!?!?!?”
I don’t fucking care.
We must treat oppressors and oppressed the same all the time in order to be fair. I’m a very smart person.
The way i see it, the right to free speech is a two-sided thing. If there’s a right to free speech for one side, there’s also a right not to listen for the other side. It’s ok to block a community to not have to see their content if you’re not allowed to talk back at them. That’s not being misogynist, that’s just fair. Same rights for everyone.
This has always been one of the top tier funniest meme images to me.
🫡
Honestly, excluding any gender from commenting on the public internet is fucking braindead stupid. Also - how do they define “woman”?
WomensStuff is trans affirming so the solution is obvious!
On the one hand, boobs, on the other, not being able to pee standing and less rights
How about just a little HRT, as a treat?
:3
Having a penis doesn’t cause dysphoria in all trans women. You can be a woman and still pee standing up! Unless you’re in a public bathroom in a red state.
Urgh, as a man, “fewer rights”
i mean. technically everyone can pee standing (barring medical concerns). it just might be slipperier than intended.
Fluid dynamics.
As the urine travels down your urethra it is under almost equal pressure from all sides. As the liquid escapes it loses contact with the vessel.
Through a process called adhesion the water in your product will experience a drag effect as the contact with the waste channel is extinguished. This drag is greatest in areas that contain the most perturbation.
The shape of the orifice that produces the stream produces the vast majority of the perturbative influence.
In this case the opening is a slit which produces semi-toroidal flows in the medium at the polar vertices.
Combine these forces (The sudden loss of pressure, the semi-toroidal flows, and adhesion) and the net effect is a torsion force on the stream.
The torsion force impels the fluid to twist and cohesion (water molecules are kind of like tiny magnets and really want to stick together) keeps the stream together.
There you have it. Why your urine spirals instead of just flowing out like a garden hose.
The spongy urethra runs along the length of the penis on its ventral (underneath) surface… This produces a spiral stream of urine and has the effect of cleaning the external urethral meatus. The lack of an equivalent mechanism in the female urethra partly explains why urinary tract infections occur so much more frequently in females.
ohhh til. thanks. good bot.
Beep boop bloop! 🤖
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I don’t see how that’s related to women also being able to piss standing up, but I appreciate the lesson in piss fluid dynamics 👍
You don’t have to get bottom surgery, unless you want to.
