- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
If all you’re doing is “voting”, then you have no right to a good night’s sleep at all.
If you’re still self-righteous about it like 9mos later, that’s even more gross.
Where is this dream candidate anyway? I haven’t seen them out there opposing genocide… Much like this gross meme…
*ignores a century of withering away of social safety nets and institutions at the hands of dems and Republicans, and primarily capitalists
*at the 11th hour and 59th minute of the devolution into fascism, nobly votes for handwringing and pragmatic genocidaire vs unabashed and bombastic genocidaire
*“I’m doing my part! Screw you, Tankies and Ruzzians for destroying America! Muslim and Arab americans in Dearborn who decided not to vote for a woman who promised to kill their bothers and sisters in Palestine and Lebanon with utmost lethality are redfash, and are the reason for the pickle we’re in now. Ignore the last 200 years of history that led us here.”
Yep, checks all the liberal boxes. History only starts where it is convenient.
So many fucking internet tough guys.
Remember when Trump wiped women and people of color from DoD and other government documents in his DEI sweep? Fucking sucks man.
It’s not just Trump. It’s the state that he operates just like his predecessor and current collaborators in both “parties”.
It’s a big mistake to assume this is some kind of break rather than a smooth continuation.
Biden did not use deportation as a weapon against legal permanent residents, green card holders, infants, and political opponents.
I think you know what you’re doing. You’re all over this thread. I just realized that all of the bullshit here is you.
Technocrit is all over every political thread, doing his best to spread apathy with the progressive voters, helping to keep the fascists in power.
He’s been slinging this same tired BS since the election, back when the Russian ops trying to get Trump elected would give him upvotes and keep him out of the red.
Removed by mod
Are you incapable of grasping nuance, or do you just refuse?
I have a relative who has been on medicaid on and off who “doesn’t pay attention to politics”. I frequently explain current events to them- like efforts to cut medicaid that may cause them to lose their coverage.
The obliviousness (or complacency, in many cases) of some people is unbelievable.
the “dont pay attention to politics” are the low information voters of trump, there are 2 types of conservatives: one watches fox news, or any right wing related media and consumes current events in a skewed way and somewhat up to date and the other are low info voters people who just take snippets and take the talking heads of (fox or right wing grifters like shapiro) out of the context because they dont understand the full story,
i think most are the latter, i know 2 people that are like this(still supporting ye and believing hes not actually BIPOLAR AND JUST TROLLING)
If only they had voted!!! It would be a totally different world!!! jfc…
Some of us are old enough to remember what things were like before Trump. Things would be completely different if Harris had won, and you’re a fucking naive child if you believe otherwise.
This is sending me
TBH I don’t want to talk to a bunch of libs who put me in a boiling pot. It’s annoying, condescending, and it does absolutely nothing to change the water temperature.
Dude nobody put you there. You were comfortable in an aquarium. You saw the boiling pot, then went and jumped in by yourself. Now you’re mad at those who warned you about the pot.
I didn’t vote For this at all, but I did know when I voted that this was still the most likely outcome, regardless of whether my candidate won or not. When you are forced to pick between Hitler and Vichy France, you know you are going to lose whoever wins, it’s only a matter of time.
Of the things listed in this post, I don’t think Harris would have pursued any of those. There are other negative outcomes that may have been the same, but I don’t think any of those.
Harris wouldn’t have, no, but she would’ve left the door open for Republicans to do it anyway 4 years from now. There is a reason Democrats never stop Republicans, and never try to ensure they can’t take away our rights.
Didn’t vote for it isn’t good enough. 90M people didn’t vote. We needed 2M more to vote against it. Remember this when the midterms come around next fall.
what we need is for people to start exercising their second amendment rights
There’s no way to vote against something that both candidates support (eg. genocide).
If they cared about genocide so much, they should have voted to prevent the one they would trigger back home.
Your insistence on seeing black and white in a gray world will be your end.
Unfortunately it’s also my end.
They didn’t vote for trump, but they sure as hell voted for this.
You’re the one stuck in black and white thinking. Any Democrat is better than any Republican, by definition. You would canvass for Mussolini if his opponent was Hitler.
That’s entirely false. Read my comment history. I spend most of my time on Lemmy trying to engage people in the primary process to unseat the corporate centrists.
Regarding the 2024 election, the Palestinians had two options. Bad, and worse. By refusing to choose, you were going to get worse. People like you would rather not put their names on bad, and let the Palestinians get worse, so they’d have a clear conscience.
I have no respect for the self-righteous.
You still don’t have any red lines though. There’s nothing a candidate could do, no behavior so monstrous, no atrocities so grand that would ever make you not vote for the lesser of two evils. Again, you would vote for Mussolini if he was running against Hitler.
If not, where is your red line? What would a Democrat have to do before you would refuse to vote for them, regardless of who they were running against?
I’m not entertaining a philosophical debate with someone who equates Mussolini and Hitler.
We can try again when you’re older.
[email protected], c. 1939
Primaries!
If more people voted in primaries we would have probably had president Sanders instead of Trump the first time around
If 2M more voted Democrat, Musk would have donated a bit more to make up the gap. I think we’re flying past actual Democracy pretty soon. We’d need 20 million more before skewing the vote is prohibitive.
Campaign money is important, but it also has it’s limits. At some point, more spending has diminishing or even negative returns. We just saw that with Elon in Michigan.
We also need a political party that also understands this. The entrenched democratic advisers lost 2 times to Trump and I havent seen any mass firing. If anything, the establishment dems are attacking anyone trying to change.
It doesn’t work like that. I’ve been saying this for decades, but maybe this explanation from a political strategist will do a better job.
Simply put, the donors want to win. They base their data on past voters, not the entire electorate. If you don’t vote, you don’t influence. It’s really always been that simple.
We need to stop rewarding those who have the financial means to reach us in our living rooms, and actively seek out the progressives in every primary. Vote in every election. That’s how change happens.
I saw a great quote somewhere that said something like, “You will understand modern American politics if you realize that GOP politicians fear their voters and Democratic politicians don’t fear their voters.”
A lot of progressives and leftists use this as an excuse to not vote and act like withdrawing from politics means they’re not complicit. What they don’t realize is that is exactly what creates this atmosphere where the Dems cater more and more to the center and right to get votes.
Not to mention the general atmosphere like we have on this very thread where the left eats itself alive and divides itself with purity tests that could never work in reality.
But that video basically tells you straight-out… the usual campaign strategies are clearly wrong. You put out a campaign that gets people excited and suddenly way more people get out to vote. It’s not a complicated theory. It clearly works in practice.
All of this conversation though, just shows how fucking poor democracy based around voter turnout is. Put elections on a weekend or make it a public holiday, and make voting mandatory (with the option of a blank ballot for those who really object to voting). It doesn’t solve all your problems. But it sure does help a lot.
Bruh. If you voted, they’d cater their advertising to you. The candidates are still there, you’re not voting for them, and blaming the lack of advertising. That’s like blaming lettuce for not advertising salads and complaining about always eating McDonald’s.
Do you want to take control of your government or not?
I’m not sure why you’re so hell bent on keeping a strategy that objective reality shows doesn’t work. DNC needs to evolve or they will die.
They absolutely do. That happens as soon as we start voting in primaries.
I vote. I’m not American, in case my instance name didn’t give it away. I’d vote even if I didn’t want to, because it’s mandatory to do so, one of several vast improvements my country has over yours in the quality of our democratic processes.
But did you watch the video you linked in the last comment? Because it completely turns your argument on its head. You say “if you voted, they’d cater to you”. But that video clearly demonstrates that the exact inverse is true. If you want to get out the vote in a large segment of the Zero Primes, all you have to do is run as exciting campaign with bold progressive policies. The evidence is all laid out there in front of you, even in common sense couldn’t get you there.
Both things can be true.
A good campaign can get people into the voting booth.
A demographic that fails to show up when you think you’ve done everything that makes sense to get them out can cause them to give up on the demographic. They may be woefully misinformed about what they should be doing, but since they don’t know any better, they are likely to just give it up as a lost cause.
Show up in the primaries for the candidate you want, it’s the only realistic way to break the chicken and egg of the establishment ignoring the voters that don’t show up and the voters not showing up for the establishment that ignores them. If the establishment is surprised by the primary outcome, that’s the strongest wakeup call for them.
Of course that’s all they have to do. That’s how we get wolves in sheep’s clothing. We need grassroots primary candidates, and they run all the time. We just don’t do our civic duty and vote in every election.
To give you an idea of how bad it’s gotten, the average turnout for congressional primaries is less than 15% for the last 30 years. That’s why we have this government. We’ve been letting retirees pick conservative centrists and push the Overton Window to the right for decades.
You’re going to downvote my factual information in favor of your disenfranchising bullshit? Bruh. You don’t even go here.
Nope. I didn’t even see your comment until after the edit. I am going to downvotes because of the edit, though. Probably woulda upvoted otherwise.
I do this but we can go even further. If you are a US citizen looking to change the DNC please look into your local DNC delegation. Taking over the party at the local level is a part of how the mentally challenged were leveraged by the Koch network to effectively take over the GOP.
I definitely agree with your last paragraph here. Try to vote in progressives in every primary we have access to in order to use voting to make a difference, yes.
However,
the donors want to win
You mean they want everything for themselves by buying politicians, right? Because often times Dem strategy is so incredibly tone deaf the only thing that’s clear about it is that they aren’t trying to win an election, they’re simply doing what the donors tell them to do. In this case, it’s the classic pretend fight, send strongly worded letters, and then let the republicans narrowly pass the massive tax break for the rich. Which is in fact a win for the donors, but nobody else.
That’s not the case if we get behind candidates with good ethics in grassroots campaigns. They choose to accept donations, and can refuse contributions from unsavory donors. We have several clean donor Representatives in the house. It’s not impossible. It just takes our participation.
What do you think fascism is, and what are its causes?
Do you seriously think the German descent into fascism was a result of poltical apathy?
I’m not entertaining a philosophical debate with someone who equates Harris and Trump.
We can try again when you’re older.
If you don’t vote, you don’t influence.
That’s the stupidest strategy you could have when you know WHY a lot of people aren’t voting at all. The only purpose of this strategy is to participate in the degradation of voting shares, and by extension, fascism. You want new votes, you get new people to vote, and you know how to do that. The GOP figured it out (I don’t want to say Trump figured it out).
The purpose is you have to stop supporting bad parties from somewhere, otherwise you can be coerced into voting against your interests every single time.
It had to end at some point. Now there is a socialist candidate.
How do you think the GOP got those candidates in the election? They enter through primaries. We don’t need to figure it out. We have the goddamn answer. We just need to vote in primaries and stop allowing retirees to pick corporate centrists for us.
Look at the Cuomo / Mamdani primary for NY mayor, the DNC really tried to kill the socialist campaign. Most primaries like that don’t get that much support against the “old guard” among Democrats, so most of the time, the actual good non-centrist option gets swept away like dust. The work that’s needed to push a socialist through the primary is so much more than “you just need to get out and vote” because those like Cuomo have so much more weight to shut them down, it’s so rare for that to fail like this.
They didn’t try to kill anything. They just didn’t put support behind Mamdani. If we did our civic duty and voted in every primary, the candidates that represent us, like Mamdani, would always be in the general election.
We can’t keep blaming big lettuce for not advertising salads while buying McDonald’s every day. We know it’s out there. Go get some lettuce.
By not voting you did vote.
First pass the post system and all of that.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
Thank you, now Rush is going to be stuck in my head.
(No seriously, thank you. Prior to this, my head was stuck with nursery rhymes.)
I read it as they voted blue.
Considering how many enlightened geniuses said that they just couldn’t vote for Harris over Gaza… I don’t actually think that’s a safe assumption.
michiganers protest voted against her, i think thats the place that had the most effect on her votes, everywhere else is less affected by foreign policy issues.
michagan is important because it has large muslim population, but not all muslims like palestinians, its another history behind that too.
You don’t have to be a genius to oppose genocide, just a decent person.
Absolutely.
Unfortunately, as a result of Trump’s win, expressing that specific opinion can get you deported.
Enlightened Geniuses:
And did helping Trump win helped, right? He definitely put a stop to the Israeli aggression.
Not voting Harris was voting to strip trans rights, destroy jobs with tarrifs, entrench fascist federal judges for a generation, major intensification in climate change ,help the genocide in Ukraine, greatly help the genocide in Gaza.
I put the blame squarely on the non voter.
Edit: vote Harris in THEN protest for better changes.
alot of conservatives do that, yes many dont vote at all because they cant be bothered, those are the low info voters.
It’s fucking depressing though. I voted for Harris, went to college, worked in IT and was a good little worker, got a decent credit score, barely got a starter home…
By all accounts I did everything right. But I’m still fucked. Going to be laid off this year and this IT industry is fucked. We all are. We can’t do anything because the wealthy always win. I’m depressed most days and only find joy in reading sometimes but other hobbies don’t feel the same.
Every time I’ve voted, my candidate of choice loses. I’m powerless. I’m not well.
By all accounts I did everything right.
Maybe the actual problem is your definition of “right”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_religion
Every time I’ve voted, my candidate of choice loses. I’m powerless. I’m not well.
Maybe you should start acting on your own instead of placing your life/future/trust in the hands of some sociopath.
What are you suggesting Americans do to survive? This is some bullshit reply.
Obviously instead of voting you should just go be president yourself.
Removed by mod
How is Kamala a genocider? A scum?
You have a lot of judgment and anger. You need to grow the parts of understanding, conversation, and kindness.
What kind of genres do you read? If you dig speculative fiction I’m happy to share recommendations and am happy to talk books. It’s not much, but just nerding out about stuff somtimes helps.
I’m not op, but I like speculative fiction. I was really into Ministry For The Future. I also liked Termination Shock.
What have you got?
I think it’s pretty rad that you offered to recommend books. You’re alright.
Two other favorites from last year. The Island of Dr. Moreau by H. G. Wells but you should follow it immediately with The Daughter of Dr. Moreau by S. Moreno-Garcia. It’s sort of a companion piece written by a female, indigenous author. It bookends the sci-fi by a white guy nicely.
Also, I’ll always tell people they should check out the book that is credited with starting sci-fi as a genre. Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus by Mary Shelly. It’s horror, it’s sci-fi, it’s speculative, it’s fucking awesome.
And the Blue Ant trilogy by Wiliam Gibson. He’s deff not for everyone. He can be really hard to get, and he just dumps you into his world and starts. There is no tutorial. But if he clicks for you, you’ll love it.
I used to be dogshit about reading but I’m trying to finish the Fourth Wing series. I’m on the last book.
But I noticed I generally enjoy thriller genres. Like The Silent Patient which was a thriller murder mystery.
And another thriller I liked was about a very thin haunted house. God the name escapes me.
Yes any recommendations are welcome and appreciated.
I’m not super versed in thriller but my friends have me dipping my feet into horror.
Sister, Maiden, Monster by Lucy A Snider was a favorite last year. Creepy, timely, and let’s say visceral.
I’m in the first 3rd of Perdido Street Station now from China Mieville. He’s credited with helping start the New Weird. Not horror as such but it’s marvelous.
And Light From Uncommon Stars by Ryka Aoki was just a rad read. It’s roughly about donughts, violins, and selling souls.
So you voted Green.
No, they said they didn’t help Trump get elected.
FTFY
ots upsetting how far down I had to scroll to find this comment
How do you vote against concentration camps when both candidates are genocidal?
Lemme guess…Whoa whoa genocide joe where did you come from where did you go, where did you come from genocide joe
Exactly. The key to remember is that “vote blue no matter who” is a one-way street with one-way loyalty. Centrists demand loyalty from progressives, but they will never offer the same in return.
Poor technocrit. Your attempt to keep Republicans in power by infecting progressive-leaning voters with apathy, it just keeps getting weaker and weaker, doesn’t it?
Removed by mod
By trying to minimize the amount of ethnic cleansing happening and slow it the fuck down so we have a better chance at stopping it rather than let it go unchallenged electorally and via direct action.
Removed by mod
lol this nonsense again, let me guess you didnt vote in protest.
Disingenuous bullshit.
Both candidates support israel, how is that disingenuous?
You know. I don’t need to explain it to you.
Removed by mod
Tell me more about who I am please.
you vote for the party that’s open to negotiations on the subject, i stead of the part that is committed to genocide at all costs
Show me one who wasn’t “pro genocide”.
That’s the point isn’t it? No matter who you voted for you voted for genocide.
Might as well vote for the one that follows the law, won’t deport people without due process to an extra-national torture prison, won’t demonize and harm LGBTQ citizens, and is willing to be held accountable.
Sure. Though I don’t know about that last part exactly. Since we all support genocide we should at least have some other stuff.
Since we all support genocide…
Your words not mine.
we should at least have some other stuff.
That quick list is in no way comprehensive.
There it is. Every time. They always get defensive. Yeah they were my words. They were factual words. You voted for genocide. I voted for genocide. Most of America voted for genocide, the ones that didn’t vote? They also voted for genocide. Get off your high horse, that’s what you voted for if you can’t accept it then you have no business talking about anything else.
Yeah… Single issue voters like this is what brought this orange demon upon us (again). Israel is really influential; they are going to genocide no matter what with the help of all their allies. By voting (or not voting) on this one issue, you risk huge economic stability and more war, as we’ve seen.
The entire world knows your political system is rubbish but, whether we like it or not, USA is the world police. And when the world police no longer polices we get emboldened actions like bombing Iran for no good reason.
And when the world police no longer polices we get emboldened actions like bombing Iran for no good reason.
I think you have a mistaken idea of what the policing has looked like in the past 78 years. The US bombed Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Indonesia, Guatemala, Afghanistan, Yemen, Somalia, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lybia, and they’ve armed plenty of regimes doing the bombing for them (Saddam Hussein, for example). America has been destabilizing the globe for decades, and there is a lot of blood on their hands (on the order of 12 million, if we count direct casualties).
You think there was a good reason for invading Iraq?
Nope. Not at all. I don’t think any of it is good at all.
However, it doesn’t matter because the US has the biggest military in the world and maintained some semblance of global order. Now that the US has essentially flipped sides, it’s caused all sorts of instability with the global economy.
I’m being selfish here because your orange idiot and the sheer greed of your richest people has caused issues in our economy. It honestly would’ve been better under Harris.
Removed by mod
Oh please. Genocide denial? Of course there’s a genocide going on in Palestine that’s being driven by Israel and their allies. That’s not the debate here.
Get off your high horse. Your political system is absolute rubbish and you’ve cornered yourselves onto picking status quo and a lunatic. And unfortunately, your elected president pretty much determines a lot of what the Western sphere does.
I wish the US didn’t have anywhere near the amount of influence it has but it was lucky that they were largely untouched in WW2 which provided a developmental advantage.
You might sleep better for not having taken part in your democracy or whatever, but the fact that the rest of us now have to deal with the international fall out is so, so frustrating.
Removed by mod
What would you have me do?
Harris said she would work toward peace talks. Whether this was true or not will never be known. But from what I’ve read, despite what she really wanted, she had to “toe the line” and not stray from Biden’s policies if she wanted to keep her campaign alive.
trump campaigned to not only let Netanyahu “finish the job,” and to write Israel a “blank check,” and to build a resort in Gaza, but also to build concentration camps ON AMERICAN SOIL, and to send Americans and immigrants in the US to foreign concentration camps.
Not voting for either is essentially a vote for trump, in this current political climate.
So voting for Harris is the closest we get to voting against concentration camps.
Removed by mod
Then you’re a fucking moron. “lmao”
The dems in congress are still supporting Israel as hard as ever. Why do you think Kamala, who hasn’t done or said anything since losing, would be any different? Are we forgetting she was VP and did nothing for an entire year of slaughter?
So then it’s literally a no win scenario, and I had to pick the least bad. My point stands.
Yes you did. You just convinced yourself that your team was powerless when they didn’t do anything to stop it.
Lol what should Harris have done to stop this? Please be specific.
Jesus, so many things.
- Stop simply handing out subpoenas and arrest Trumpers for ignoring them, and then go on every news show and hammer the message that Republicans are not above the law.
- Go after Joe Manchin’s daughter for being part of the leadership of a company that price gouges people for prescription drugs until he starts voting the way the party wants him to.
- Remove all of Kirsten Sinema’s committee seats so she can’t personally profit off of lobbyist cash, until she starts voting the way the party wants her to.
- Refuse to support genocide. Revoke aid to Israel.
- Have the president hold a press conference, every single day, Donald-style, where all he talks about are the things we can’t have because of the Republican-controlled Senate and hammer home the message that obstruction is the reason why food is becoming cost-prohibitive.
- Revoke any federal contracts to gun manufacturers that sell AR-15’s to public vendors, and make it very publicly clear that he will do everything he can to bankrupt gun manufacturers who do.
- Pressure RBG endlessly to retire while Obama has control of Congress.
And that’s just off the top of my head.
It’s astonishing that you’ve sat through six months of this presidency and you’re still able to gaslight yourself into believing that Dems had no power when they had the presidency and Congress. They just didn’t give enough of a shit to fight but the hardline fascists do.
Christ, Biden’s presidency did nothing meaningful except make people poorer and angrier, and made himself out to be an egotistical, demented buffoon.
Removed by mod
With the benefit of hindsight? Raise hell, break away from Biden, and acknowledge that our economy is not fine.
The Electoral College System: ‘I don’t really care, do u?’
Something something first they came for the something something
And a bunch of people didn’t vote for hitler. Nazi party got 43% of the votes on 1933.
I’m sure that’s of great comfort to the people in concentration camps. Legit so gross to acknowledge concentration camps currently existing and being run by your own government, and somehow still making it about you.
What can the average US citizen do about concentration camps that are outside the US but controlled by the US?
Did you phrase it this way to avoid talking about the ones in the US?
At bare minimum they could not turn the existence of these camps into the opportunity to talk about how morally pure they are. Useless and obnoxious at best, callous and heartless at worst.
Forgot about the new ones popping up, so I will lump them in as well: what concrete actions can US citizens take in regards to the concentration camps being set up by their government? A government that has the largest amount of military spending on the planet, and has now started deploying that military against it’s own citizens.
Why are you asking me what to do when my criticism of the sentiment in the OP is that it’s self centered and cruel?
If you need to be led around by the nose, probably literally anything else is going to be better than publicly jacking yourself off about how you didn’t want this to happen. I’m sure you can think of something other than self congratulatory meme posting.
I’m asking as you’re the one complaining. Don’t bring me a dead cat without bringing me a shovel.
Drones… Certain funds from the construction market… (Although, I don’t know if they stock other stores in your area.) , start hunting terrorists, Badaboom
Taking some of the millions and millions weapons in US…
But has to be done some time ago. Now ist over.
Removed by mod
Never forget. /S
2A exists for a reason
I’m doubtful that an armed US populace will be effective against the militarized police forces and literal military being deployed against Citizens.
The second amendment was more realistic when society had roughly the same fire power as the military, but not so much any more.
They have predator drones, we have AR-15’s. These are not the same.
Did they have predator drones in Afghanistan?
The number of Americans who showed up to protest in the streets on No King’s Day was at least 1 million more than the sum total of US military and police members.
I find this sentiment very funny, considering the United States terrible performance in asymmetrical warfare.
I don’t think we won a war against an insurgency on their own soil in…… ever?
And that’s with the benefits of untouchable supply lines, and war production, unparalleled intelligence apparatus, and the ability to print money.
Exactly. Proving you ultimately can’t control an armed populace who are willing to take up arms against you.
This all falls apart when most of the country is mass surveilled and production is automated. If only 10% of the workforce are required, it’s easier to control the 10% you need by killing the other 90%, ever shrinking the population of proles until only the < 1% remain.
That’s why fascism, billionaires, and all oligarchs must be eliminated before general AI and mass automation are realized, otherwise the 99% face genocide.
You nailed it, also why the next step for Silicon Valley is military robotics
so why even try to resist right? Lets just say we are sad about it
Or be smart about it… op was just being honest and realistic… That’s how you need to be when you are at war.
Start with small groups of ICE agents?
Weapons manufacturing facilities?
Infrastructure? Hacktivism?
Economic targets?
Rich mansions?Anything’s better than shoulder-shrugging after decades of molon labe.
And the worst part?
They probably sleep sounder than you.
