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I have a much lesser ww3 vibe than when the Ukraine thing started. It hasn’t even crossed my mind but it keeps popping up everywhere. Perhaps I’m missing something crucial here.
Perhaps I’m missing something crucial here.
For me, the crucial bit here is political ideology vs. religion. Russia invading Ukraine is purely political in my opinion, whereas the Israel/Iran conflict can’t really be separated from religion. Might be spitballing here, but religious fanatics might be more extremist (willing to escalate war to defend their beliefs) than political fanatics. I also think USA’s historical defense of Israel is in play here, whereas USA’s involvement with Ukraine hasn’t really been a thing.
Yep I’ve got anxiety and I honestly thought something awful would happen. For about 6 weeks I was taking a rucksack with clothing, food and wind up radio wherever i went.
It’s probably because Iran doesn’t have any nukes
Or friends. Nobody’s going to war over Iran. Suggesting this is WW3 is quite the stretch. America bombs places. It’s just what we do. Dropping bombs on poor brown countries is as American as apple pie, and it crosses the aisle.
Am I numb or am I exhausted? Maybe I’ll find out after another nap.
This is why I don’t believe people who say things can get better.
Yeah it’s not like our ancestors went through two world wars in a period of 20 years along with the first Global economic depression or anything like that, and the realization that Humanity can now wipe itself off the planet.
No it’s definitely us that lives through the most interesting time
It doesn’t have to be the most interesting time. Just an interesting time.
Still sucks and we’ve got climate collapse to worry about in addition to nukes. And PFAS. And microplastics.
Oh 100% I agree. We do live in trying times. But we also live in probably the best time to be alive at least if you live in the western world.
I just want to bring some context from the past because when you look at history we’re doing quite a bit better than we used to.
While the no Kings protest didn’t really achieve a whole lot mobilizing up to 10 million people is a huge achievement and not one that many organizations could have dreamed of doing 50 years ago.
Yes, this shitty world is definitely the best we could reasonably hope for.
Oh I didn’t say that. The world could be a lot better.
Only that we generally live in the best time historically wise. Most of us have a roof over our heads and steady food in our bellies which is not historically how things have been.
It’s foolish to try and look back in history for a better time because there is none. It is up to us to create a better future going forward.
Yeah sorry, it may be better in some ways but a large amount of powerful people want us back in serfdom/slavery, instead of actually improving life. 90s was peak, it’s downhill from there.
I know quite a few minorities that would disagree with you. Also I think a lot of people in poverty probably have a better now with the institutions and systems we have then they were in the 90s when after they had been gutted by the Reagan Administration and not restored by the Bush Administration or the Clinton administration.
Most of us have a roof over our heads and steady food in our bellies which is not historically how things have been.
I don’t have the outright stats to say so definitively, but I wouldn’t be surprised if this is true for the smallest percent of the US population since the Great Depression. The average American has less than $300 in their bank account. Credit card debt is increasing as fast as it ever has, and people are defaulting on that debt at the highest rates of all time. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck (at least 60% of the population), and there is not a single county in the country where a person making the median wage in that county can afford the median cost of a home in that same county. We lost more money during the 2008 recession than during the Great Depression, and most people never recovered even though the economy recovered that money in about a year - 90% of it went to the wealthy, who had also lost the least. The homelessness crisis has become so bad that it’s called the homelessness epidemic, and the homeless population is also increasing at the fastest rate that it ever has. Wealth disparity is worse in the US today than during the French Revolution, where the price of a loaf of bread hit an all-time high of a day’s wage for the average worker.
The average American is one medical emergency away from going bankrupt, and diseases that we had thought were on the verge of eradication are making a comeback while we continue to ignore the ongoing COVID pandemic that we still don’t know how it truly affects us. COVID has been found in everything from the brain to the testicles and is linked to infertility and a million other issues that will cripple the size of the workforce in the years to come due to Long COVID symptoms preventing people from working.
These are hard times made by weak, greedy men who refuse to hand over the reins and want to make things even worse.
Things have always been worse if you weren’t a straight, white, able-bodied man, but I think it’s been a long time since it was this bad for such a large swath of the population on the basic metrics of food, shelter, and financial security - at least in the US.
I think things are getting worse for white people exactly the way you say. I think for minorities though it’s kind of always been this bad or even worse made by people being far more racist.
Things are still pretty systemically racist but there has been somewhat of a correction and that probably does result in things being a bit better for some minorities.
Ultimately I think that means that We live in better times today because they’re more accepting than we did Even 20 years ago.
As far as getting by I think things have been like this for a really really long time and people were patient and sold a crock of shit and with covid it’s forcing a lot of these things to come to a head.
Not only that Trump himself is a governmental crisis and when there’s chaos in the government there’s absolutely chaos in society. Simmering tensions tend to get exposed.
But we won’t. We could have been creating a better world for the past 30 years and we didn’t.
And now it’s too late to prevent the Ross Ice shelf and all of Greenland from falling into the sea.
True irreparable harm has been done to the world through climate change.
But I see a second wave of people’s revolutions coming. Hopefully it’ll be in time to react to the changes of the world.
Even in Hopeless times we must have hope comrade.
They certainly can - post-WWII was certainly an improvement for most people - but there’s no guarantee that they will.
lol, yep, things have only became worse over time through my whole life, and I just got laid off from a sick job I scored during the Covid chaos, so i’m job searching on top of all of that
Certainly job search got worst during and after COVID. Especially people recently graduating finding out stems are not very easy to get into
Just have to vote for Dems and there’s a decent chance 9/11 wouldn’t have happened, Iraq wouldn’t have happened, pandemic would’ve been handled better and the pandemic response plan wouldn’t have been axed, and we wouldn’t have bombed Iran. Not to mention women would still have health care.
I’ve been voting D for years and it still didn’t help.
- It obviously would have been worse. 2. Convince your fellow voter or non voter.
Iraq War resolution vote in the Senate.
Dem President wouldn’t have been pounding the war path, with lies, and pretty much the entire nation pushing their representatives for it.
Where do you get that idea? The Trump admin has only been in place for five months. The strike the US just carried out took years of planning. Trump’s attack on Iran was just a continuation of Biden admin policy.
All the evidence I’ve seen my whole adult life is that the Democrats, or at least the Democratic leadership structure, are just as bloodthirsty and warmongering as the Republican leadership.
We don’t actually know that Dems wouldn’t have been pushing an Iraq war. Ultimately the real push for the war came from the Israeli leadership, and the Israelis control both the Democratic and Republican parties. Israel ultimately decides US Middle East policy, not the American citizens. What party you vote for has very little impact on it. That’s the conclusion you reach if you look at the actual evidence, not just the vibes that each party likes to portray. The Dems like to portray themselves as some 1960s peace-nicks, but both parties let Israel control their entire Middle East policy. Israel wanted to invade Iraq, and that was going to happen regardless of what party was in power.
Maybe the Dems would have handled the Iraq war a little more competently, but Saddam had been a villain in the US media for years. People were talking about invading Iraq while the bodies at ground zero hadn’t even cooled off.
Most damning of all? Al Gore supported military intervention in Iraq. He just wanted a more international effort than what Bush did.
Gore supported invading Iraq. The majority of Democrats in the US Senate supported Iraq. What evidence do you have that a Democratic president wouldn’t have invaded Iraq? I think the only case is vibes-based.
Dude, militaries work on plans for everything. I would be surprised if they didn’t have a plan to invade nearly every country on Earth. It’s what the military does. The decision is made by the politicians. Vastly different things that you’re trying to hammer together.
Israelis control both the Democratic and Republican parties.
Thank you for showing me you’re nuts. No point in real discussion, this will be my only reply.
But to address
Most damning of all? Al Gore supported military intervention in Iraq.
That reads nearly like an academic discussion on the topic and that he was actually focused on WMDs. Sounds like he wouldn’t have done it without people/nations researching and agreeing that Saddma Hussein had WMDs (or was trying to make them), which would have lead to international cooperation and support. Not quite to the point of wanting UN agreement (because vetos) but he keeps discussing the UN. And sounds like if he didn’t have both the domestic and international agreement, it wouldn’t have happened. This is just another thing you’re trying to hammer together. I thought this part was cool “the president is publicly taunting Democrats with the political consequences of a ‘no’ vote”, he was obviously not a fan of Bush’s browbeating - which along with Bush’s lies is how the Iraq war went through. And the whole thing is just ripping Bush’s administration and approach apart.
That you keep trying to hammer different things together shows me you either can’t separate them yourself, or that you’re discussing in bad faith. So ciao.
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Winning is binary, so me voting doesn’t make Trump any less the president.
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I’ve been trying to do that too and people are too stupid to convince and I’m bad at it.
- If GOP won more often, it would be even worse. 2. Yeah.
In the rare cases a Democrat I vote for wins they’re either hamstrung by Republicans winning everywhere else or have a stroke and turn into Republicans.
So we’re back to 1. More GOP wins means it would have been even worse and 2. Convince your fellow voter and non voter to vote.
Seriously what is the purpose of your moaning.
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The problem is the Democratic Party isn’t a working class/labor party. The Democratic Party’s primarily purpose is to occupy space on the political spectrum and prevent the rise of a true workers party. There will never be a time to walk away, abandon a clearly irredeemably broken edifice, and build something new. It will always be the most important election of your life, and you will always be a traitor to your nation for daring to suggest it’s time to scrap the morbidly obese old man, fused into his couch, sucking up all the oxygen out of the room on the left side of the political spectrum.
No, the entire structure of our government is unable to deal with the world it exists in.
Jokes on you. I watched 9/11 in elementary school.
I think we’re called Z-llenials
Probably “Millennials” hating that you’re too young to claim their tag, and “Zoomers” hating that you’re too old to claim theirs. Whatever. We are the mid-90s (even 90s) babies, and that’s a cool name even if a little longer.
Millennials, anecdotally, do get really mad at you if you bring up being part of the Zillenial cusp. I had a whole group of them freak out on me for it once and insist that no, I was a millennial only. It was weird.
5th grade. I remember pre-9/11 I wasn’t really scared of much, cause you know, there wasn’t a lot to be scared of.
Watching it on live TV and everything devolved very quickly.
I was in my geography lesson, so I don’t identify either.
I was in social studies class and we always watched the morning news so it was on tv before anything even happened. Got to watch the second plane hit live and then in science class the buildings collapsed.
Then we got sent home early so my mom drove us over with the neighbor to see if her coworkers were still alive and have me take pictures.
Live during jr high but yeah
actually I was sleeping through study hall, but the rest checks out
WWIII isn’t starting, NATO doesn’t give a fuck about Iran and Iran doesn’t have a nuclear weapon either. Calm down libs.
Roe v Wade will never change, calm down libs. The climate isn’t changing, calm down libs. Project 2025 isn’t real, calm down libs. Our economy will get better, calm down libs. Our government will follow the law, not break every law so fast the courts can’t keep up, calm down libs. Maybe, just maybe, instead of just acting so blaise and dismissive over Liberal thoughts and opinions, and attempting to perpetuate this stupid game of “owning the libs” you actually listen and think critically. Liberals may not have all the answers, and maybe their beliefs don’t fully align with yours, but this country used to operate on a few core ethics and beliefs, but saying “calm down libs” like it’s a goddamn video game and keeping score is just putting us further into a shithole. So use your head, come up with some formal argument and supporting statements, and stop playing the fucking game and use your brain to fix the machine instead (or at the very least, step aside, drop the pompoms and stop playing cheerleader for the people who keep fucking shit up).
It’s sort of like a pre-emptive exaggeration. It’s definitely possible WWIII starts with this. Ukraine, Trade War, Iran, then Taiwan and India-Pakistan. There is a non-zero chance it will escalate without stopping.
But by making fun of this “hysterical overreaction” now you prevent any serious anti-war opposition from gaining ground. At least that is what the psychological effect of this is: calming down the libs.
I mean, I doubt many people thought that a failed and then successful attempt on Ferdinand would result in thousands of men playing with new killing machines against dated formation ranks but it ended up there regardless (WW2 was gonna happen, and everyone knew it, it was just a matter of when)
I don’t know enough history of WWI but it certainly feels like this to me. Like the climate wars have started, but everyone is being gaslit into thinking it’s just this or that reason or bad guy.
You can just feel this tension in the zeitgeist, like “oooh these liberal cucks don’t want us to nuuuuke someone, oh no, they’d really get soooo maaaad about nuking a little, would really be a shaaaaame hahaha”
Like if you’d make a referendum on whether or not to sell a few nukes to Ukraine, it would totally go through.
The long and short of WW1 was a bunch of inbred cousin monarchs were bickering about territories during the height of colonialism, and factioned up. One thought another country killed one of their Dukes, they denied it, were attacked anyhow, and then a barfight turned into a brawl, with the peons of each country being run into grinding machines (automatic machine guns were brand new and at the time old school block and line formations were still the normal way to group up and fight. So yeah, hundreds killed in seconds). After a few hundred thousand were dead from all over the world, the inbred officers realized war strategy had to change, and no one really knew wtf to do for awhile. More died, disease spread and killed even more, and eventually almost all blame fell to Germany (which was new and formed from various countries), and Germany got kinda punished unfairly, resulting in WW2 as Germans felt like they were punished so unfairly everyone else should pay. Very short version. Also Israel was formed at this time based on a whole shitload of reasons, that can be summed up with the British being narcissistic and doing whatever they thought was best while ignoring the political/religious minefield of their actions.
What do librarians have to do with this?
Calm down libs.
Ok nazi.
This interaction is a certified Lemmy moment
Ah, but we have the benefit of never being able to buy a house, and having the same minimum wage for 16 years.
My daughter was in kindergarten and saw a man fall to his death on 9-11. Its stuck with her. Nothing was done to those assholes who allowed this to happen.
I was 15 when I watched a guy blow his brains out on a freeway overpass on broadcast TV. That’s always stuck with me.
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No. You should be able to figure out who I meant now. Right?
The blessed generation.
Yeah, pretty much. We burned up the middle class trying to bomb Iraq because of Bin-Laden. Billionaires won’t spend their money, poor people don’t have money to spend, not sure where republicans think the cash is going to come from for this crusade.
Math class.
Three recessions. People always forget the dotcom bubble that was made worse by the market going down after 9/11.
Pre 9/11 you could also get like 10% interest on a savings account.
OJ Simpson murdered his wife, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman.
One of OJs lawyers was Robert Kardashian, Kim Kardashian’s father.
US President Bill Clinton impeached over abusing his power by getting a blowjob in the Oval Office from an intern. Then lying about it.
Y2K. Remember that?
AIDS.
And in my country, a coup, a toxic syndrome, a housing bubble, terrorism, …
It’s amazing to me the strides in medicine that have helped reduce the deaths associated with HIV in such a short time. I remember that shit was like a 1 to 2 year mortality rate, and people are now able to live much much longer.
AFAIK drugs can control HIV and prevent AIDS, so people aren’t dying from it if they’re treated, and I think they can also make it much less contagious. It’s really amazing.
Some millennials are over 40. Doesn’t change the point but let’s be factual here
Fuck I’m old :((((((
Oh shut up.
—GenX
I envy gen x. Last generation to be home owners.
Not all of us.
Yeah, you can change high-school to college, and 40 to 45 for me, but the point doesn’t really change.
I’m here with you on that. We got to see Biff in back to the future and now we get to see a Biff Larper as president.
All Biff and no hoverboard? Bogus!
Fake Biff and fake hoverboards!
totally not not-heinous
Considering Biff was based on Trump in the 80s…
They almost nailed it…
He wasn’t quite evil and stupid enough.
I’m 43. Look at me go.
I was trying to think of some shit going down in the 80s.
All I can think of is Chernobyl melt down in 86.
Mutually Assured Destruction was pretty big at the time. The rot really started to set in with Reagan.
Not the 80’s, but the early-mid 90’s were rife with evidence of the U.S.’s decline.
Rodney King beatings, the highway of death in Iraq, the rise to prominence of Fox News, the mass destruction of the ‘93 floods, all those communities destroyed by the shift to zero tolerance policies, and the deevoludtion of national political debate into contentious identity politics by 24-hour news channels.
In the 80’s you had Bhopal and 3-mile island, too. And the savings and loan crisis, I think.
Challenger explosion, televised straight into so many classrooms
Wow. Looking into this for a few minutes I now realise I’ve been completely naive to this for most of my life. It’s an awful but fascinating disaster.
This isn’t about them.
