Seriously, read the insert. Indications, warnings, dosage, expiration date. Every single time.
… Is the expiration date that important ? I always thought the drug would just lose effectiveness but not really become dangerous
Yes, some drugs break down into other compounds that can be toxic after their expiration date.
then why to the others have it?
Well that is a permanent solution to some kinds of pain
American here: I know paracetamol is acetaminophen, but how much is a packet?
paracetamol packet
It looks like it’s a sheet of 6-8 pills
https://www.nps.org.au/news/paracetamol-ibuprofen-combinations-for-acute-pain
Reading the meme it seems like a packet is five times the dangerous dosage.
I don’t think there’s a standard size, but I know they sell them in packages of 3x10 where I live. Eating 4 full packets of those in a day would put you at 15 times the upper recommended daily dosage, for what it’s worth, which is calculated slightly conservatively to not be lethal for any adults
You can also often get high-strength pills for chronic pain that are 665mg instead of the regular 500mg.
I believe I’ve seen them sold in 1g pills where I live as well.
Well, generally you’re only supposed to take ~2 tablets at a time, so 10? 40 pills a day is 13,000mg of acetaminophen, or 20,000mg if they’re extra strength.
That’s, uh, bad. You’re recommended to take under 4000mg per day, so that’d be a bit over a packet? Makes sense to me.
For the record, mixing two painkillers without consulting a doctor is also usually a bad idea but way fucking less of a bad idea than taking 13000mg of tylenol in a day. Afaik, acetaminophen with other stuff is probably fine but napoxen, ibuprofen, and aspirin all work roughly the same way and shouldn’t be mixed.
Don’t take my word for it but I think paracetamol and ibuprofen with added codeine can be taken together despite the double codeine as the amount they have is low enough that double is still safe.
Check with a pharmacist first, dosages are going to vary and I am just some guy on the internet.
For the record, mixing two painkillers without consulting a doctor is also usually a bad idea but way fucking less of a bad idea than taking 13000mg of tylenol in a day.
Basically, if something hurts so much that you might take enough paracetamol/acetaminophen to fuck with your liver then you yes, you should be under a doctor’s care. That said, between my wife and me, we’ve had three or four doctors over the years all be very chill with the idea of alternating Tylenol and Ibuprofen after surgery or the like. I guess they work on such different chemical pathways that they don’t have much interaction potential, and keeping under the daily dose of Tylenol in particular is incredibly important, as we’ve seen in this thread.
tyelonol works on the liver, the others like ibuprofen, naproxen,etc works by inhibiting the cox1 and 2 enzymes. of courses take 2 much of the inhibitors is very similar to aspirin, it can prevent clotting(which in itself is a therapeuthic uses for clotting disorders)
They act on different systems, yes, but this is more about the metabolism of each.
Non-steroidal-anti-inflamatorirs can cause damage to your stomach and kidneys.
Acetaminophen/Paracetol metabolizes in the liver a similar way alcohol does, and like alcohol has a maximum rate of clearing the toxin.
yes, you should be under a doctor’s care.
That’s not always an option, unfortunately, but it’s definitely accurate.
Various countries limit painkillers to small packet sizes and pharmacies only hand them out one at a time, so you can’t overdose as easily/spontaneously, either like the person in the post did due to pain, or for suicidal purposes.
It’s not perfect protection, as you can just go to multiple pharmacies to buy multiple packets, but yeah, you will have to actually go do that and will get told at the pharmacy that you shouldn’t take more, if you’re not aware.America… I remember seeing “value packs” of Tylenol containing 300 pills… that’s their idea of freedom… to cause slow and agonizing suicide by liver failure
Ironically, for America, this is one area where you are expected to read the label and not be an absolute idiot.
Exactly, I know I can take 2 a day and a couple days and if the pain persists I ought to seek out medical help.
We know how to follow directions, we’re just not fucking gonna
kids were trying to robotrip on dextrotomorphan, and now they require ID to buy any cold medicine that contains it.
The bottle on my shelf has 350 (new, Costco brand) but I don’t take over the recommended dose for obvious reasons. Guess it expired last year now that I look heh. The smaller bottles cost more per dose so no reason not buy a larger one. This is in Canada, not the US for people curious about other countries.
That math doesn’t quite add up. Sure less per dose sounds good, but if you’re wasting half the bottle then paying a little more per dose but less total cost is still more economical.
i buy the larger ones online. better than buying the small ones. i do this for anti-histamines too, because i got allergies, i can get 1000tablets for the 1st generations easy, and cheaper pricing for the 2nd generation ones years worth. kirkland has the quality to it, im trying some off-brand(probably chinese made) doesnt seem as effective, and it was a wierd shape.
It may be less effective but you use it till the bottle is done, it’s not like milk it still works.
they sell larger bulk bottles, usually i buy them on amazon, in-stores are usually more expensive. i also use naproxen too.
Yikes! The use of the term “packet” was initially confusing to me. Here in the States it’s not uncommon to see small packets of a single dose of over the counter medicines in gas stations and convenience stores for when you’re not at home and something comes up. The directions for extra strength Tylenol are 2 every 6hrs (1000mg dose) not exceeding 3 doses per day.
I was thinking “4 packets over 3 days, what’s the big deal?”
Worth noting as well that the OP said four packs a day for three days.
i heard some people fitness takes these so they can train excessively longer than normal. it was a news article a certain group was discussing, and they were tellinig a story of a dude doing that, that guy got addicted for sure to the pain meds, because they said he couldnt do anything without them.
according to the acetaminophen i’ve got at home, dangerous dosage is >4g per day. that means that if 4 packets was 20x that, each packet would be 20g, which, if they’re normal 500mg pills, would be 40 pills per packet.
And a maximum of 2g/day if you weigh under 50kg (which not a lot of people know).
you should stick to 3g a day if you’re overall a small person, some bottles will recommend this as the max to be safe
3-4000mg is toxic to the liver.
Therapeutic dose of acetaminophen is 15 mg/kg q6h prn. That dose of 4g/day ==> 1g/dose. 1000mg/(15mg/kg) = 66.67kg == 145lb.
That’s the minimum weight for that acetaminophen dosing. If you’re under that weight, you can consider the reduced dose. If you’re over 145lb, no need to worry. And honestly, I think I’m the only one who actually doses this stuff q6h anyway. I think most people end up doing TID dosing because that allows uninterrupted sleep.
Not “even paracetamol”. ESPECIALLY paracetamol.
Tylenol/acetaminophen/paracetamol is both weak ass painkiller and really dangerous because the overdose line is low. Here they put it in synthetic opioid drugs, it doesn’t help with pain but does make them more dangerous.
Opioids are fir suffering whereas acetaminophen is for pain signals. A combination of ibuprofen and acetaminophen have been demonstrated to be the most effective pain killer we currently have.
Pain and suffering are different things.
oh yea it isnt as good as other otc nsaids, like ibuprofen and naproxen, or aspirin. oh and that fake pseudoephedrine mimic(phenyleprine) for cogestion, they already said it has no effect whatsoever. its mostly the 1st generation antihistamines doing all the work for your sinuses when you have the cold anyways.
isnt as good as other otc nsaids, like ibuprofen and naproxen, or aspirin
The do different things. It all depends on the type of “pain”.
It might not get you high, but it absolutely does help actual pain when combined with opioids.
It’s good at reducing fever
Isn’t this why they specifically put acetaminophen in opioid+nsaid prescription painkillers, instead of ibuprofen or aspirin or naproxen? Just to discourage abuse because if you take too much it’ll destroy your liver. Has always seemed a bit fucked up to me.
This is one aspect which is stupid, agreed, and based on a terrible and possibly willful misunderstanding of how addiction works. It’s also based on an assumption that the average person is educated on medicine in a way that is wholly out of touch with reality (“you mean the average person doesn’t know the max dose of acetaminophen off hand and keep meticulous track of dosage? But I do that, of course, I’m a doctor/pharmacist”)
but in addition there is added pain relief from the combo of acetaminophen + hydrocodone/oxycodone vs the opioid on its own so there is some justification for it outside of punitive approach for addicts. If you’re going to prescribe both anyway after something like a broken arm or wisdom tooth extraction there are also benefits to this: cheaper overall to just have one pill, easier to manage for the patient, etc
not sure what you mean by opioid+nsaid prescription painkillers, so I’ll assume it’s a mix of opiods plus NSAIDs. wouldn’t make much sense to add aspirin/naproxen/ibuprofen on top of that, as they are also NSAIDs and that role’s already been filled
paracetamol is also a fairly good painkiller so my guess is they’re probably going for some synergy there as well
They probably mean stuff like Tylenol2, which is acetaminophen and codeine.
I think the reason is that both acetaminophen and opioids are processed by the liver and that acetaminophen will overwhelm it allowing more time for opioids to be effective.
You can take acetaminophen and nsaids together because they work differently and are processed differently.
But, if you’re a heavy drinker, both are dangerous for very different reasons. Liver vs digestive tract.
Everyone’s discussing ODing on OTC pain meds but the bigger part of this story is why he’s in so much pain for so long without being able to see a Dr and receive treatment for chronic pain.
Some people are just stubborn about seeing doctors. My guess is that this is a british guy, and dental coverage under the NHS is spotty at best
ITT: People who don’t know the difference between acute and chronic ODs and how a smaller amount over a long period can hurt you. 325mg APAP x4 will not kill you short term.
The problem was taking it every day over a long period.
Its still fucking stupid though.
I think the problem here is the word “packet” and what that means here exactly. Would be much more clear if they listed the amount of MG, or at the very least, how many pills are in a “packet”
I’m like 99% sure they took way more than just 4 Tylenol.
I’ve only ever seen “packets” contain two pills or capsules. 325x2x4= 2,600mg or 2.6g, well below the 8g average one time adult OD dose.
Taking less than 3g a day for <3 days is fine, although if you’re needing that much you probably should see a medical professional about something more tailored to your type of pain.
Really though way too many people in general have the idea pain killers of any type should remove all pain and in many cases, that’s not realistic without long term health complications.
Edit: lemmy did not like me using asterisks for multiplication.
Are you in the US too? Because I’ve only ever seen 2 pills in anything resembling a “packet” here as well.
However, other comments here seem to be implying that “packet” might have a different meaning in this context in Europe, with some suggesting it could be referring to an entire blister pack…
Just by the context in the OP itself, the implication is that this person took an absolute shit load of acetaminophen. Seemed to imply more than “just” 8 pills, which is still a lot but as you say, doesn’t seem like enough for an acute OD.
So I’m wondering if they have packets with more than just 2 pills over there.
325mg APAP x4 will not kill you short term.
Yeah I’m p sure the daily maximum on the package is 4k
My brother in Christ, the paracetamol box LITERALLY says to never go more than 4 grams (4000 mg) in a 24hs period on any mg pills presentation
And as far as I see, that’s a general rule with everything. Even those caramels for sore throat or reflux pills, where you’d need to eat thousands in a day to overdose, say the same
Don’t fuck with medicine dudes
You’re assuming he can read.
I mean this is just dumb. Like I’m sorry but this would happen with basically every medicine or drug. They aren’t made to be taken at higher doses than advised.
(Imagine you took 8 liters of beer per day for 3 days, you’d be half dead too.)
Moderation people…
Moderation people…
We don’t do that in Eastern Europe™
You haven’t seen the ridiculous quantities that some alcoholics will consume
Paramedic here, once brought someone in who ended up having a blood alcohol of .64. Dude got to sober up in the ICU.
On the medical board exams, you get questions talking about patients that drink pints or liters of liquor every day and you’re expected to know all the various health problems that come with alcohol use disorder.
Tolerance is a different beast. But 8 liters of beer is ridiculous.
Humans drink 2-3 liters a day. Of water.
Should*
Yup. Didn’t say it was good for them
8 liters is like average for Oktoberfest visitors
It all comes back up.
It’s bizarre to me that someone can make it to adulthood without knowing that paracetamol specifically is no fucking joke.
People look up resources on them and see that the recommended max dose of ibuprofen is lower than paracetamol per day in weight of the active ingredient and stop reading.
They don’t get to the part about how the effect per weight isn’t the same. Or how damaging paracetamol can be for the liver if you take it regularly or go over the recommend limit. Heavy drinkers especially don’t take into account the extra stress on their liver, which is a contributor to the 400-500 deaths it causes every year in the US alone.
Meanwhile ibuprofen makes you feel sick and want to vomit once you start to go over the recommended limit. And if you reach that stage, you basically just stay hydrated to keep your kidneys going and wait for it to pass. Since it usually takes another 2-3 times as much to for the severe effects to occur.
To quote Scrubs:
Dr. Cox: Did you just page me to ask me how much ibuprofen to give Mrs. Lenzner here?
Sunny: Well, I was worried it would exacerbate the patient’s
Dr. Cox: It’s ibuprofen! Here’s what you do. When she wakes up, get her to open her mouth nice and wide, then get some of those ibuprofen pills in your hands and throw them at her. Whatever sticks in there, that’s the correct dosage.
And in the pilot episode, it was J.D. and regular strength Tylenol.
not everyone studies drugs
I was taught this as an actual child because it’s so important and paracetamol is so common. It’s nothing to do with “studying drugs”.
It is absolutely imperative that you understand the safety profile of ANY substance entering your body.
I was about to make a joke about understanding the safety profile of the air you breathe, and then I remembered I work near various chemicals… Mfs have mixed clorox and lysol at my workplace before. Safety is no joke
not following safety is frequently funny, almost no safety procedures are funny, not following safety wins.
there is a stark difference between “studies drugs” and “does the bare minimum research on the pharmaceuticals one puts into their body”
Acetaminophen (paracetamol) is definitely tough on the liver. I remember during EMT classes (well, I kinda remember, was 20 years ago) having one of the paramedics in the class talking about how it was worse on the liver than heroin. Now yes, heroin obviously has other downsides, but it’s just crazy to think about. I have always limited my intake of it, never take it if I’ve been drinking, that sort of thing. The issue is that it’s not exactly common knowledge. I know plenty of people who would drink and take some Tylenol at bedtime to kill the hangover. Not a good habit.
It’s not common knowledge?
Not in the US.
On an informal survey of several hundred men aged 18 to 60 at or below the income cutoff for recieving free medical insurance from the state they were living in, less than 10% knew Tylenol was bad for your liver at all and just over 25% knew that long term ibuprofen use was bad for kidneys.
The number goes up when income does, but considering the number of people working for minimum wage over here…
We have a culture of ADVERTISING medication here, every possible attempt at minimizing public knowledge of medical side effects is made at every legal turn because fear cuts profits.
Edit – I should add that I’ve met multiple educated people who heard that the Brits had some super dangerous liver killing over the counter painkiller that they just LET people have who were glad we didn’t allow that kind of nonsense here.
Very few people know what paracetamol is and would be surprised to learn it’s another name for Tylenol.
I would say most people are like this. Knowing it’s super dangerous in high doses is the minority because it’s sold OTC and everyone knows and trusts it.
Just tell them you believe a billionaires earn their money, climate change is a hoax to sell books, and the solution to mass shootings is to sell more guns to more people.
You know, express the nonsensical opinions only a well deluded American is propagandized from birth to express with a straight face when they should be embarrassed at their belligerent ignorance.
holy fuck how did that guy make it to adulthood without braincells…
Pain is a hell of a drug, and if the first time you’ve had pain so bad you’d shoot yourself to make it stop is terrifying.
That, and tooth pain is particularly bad.
I had a wisdom tooth come in, smash itself against the molar next to it, and then start grinding the nerves together.
Literally blinding pain, like my vision went white and it overrode every other sensation in my body.
That being said, what ultimately helped me cope was a maximum does of ibuprofen and acetaminophen. Fair warning, I am not a doctor, and I was a young healthy man with no liver issues. I was able to take both at the same time and it cut the pain. The two meds work in different ways that compliment each other. This is not a long-term solution, this was to last 3 days for a dental appointment to have both teeth pulled.
but then you combine differently acting painkillers, not just take 20 times the safe dose of one O.o
like Ibuprofren and Paracetamol can be safely combined up to their allowed doses, which is what I did after surgery, spaced them out to half-time between each other’s next allowed pill 🤷
It sounds like you’ve never experienced the pain I’m describing.
Hah, im a psycho so i usually rawdog everything you would have to take painkillers for. Also i prefer not to get addicted to painkillers but thankfully that is pretty rare here in europe especially compared to the us.
Not traeting pain can lead to chronic pain.
Wait what
I mean if my doctor says that i have to take something i do but i usually ask if taking pain killers are necessary and its usually only for the pain. There are also painkillers that are anti-inflammatory and of course i take those.
I’m mostly the same way.
Opioids make me physically ill and do not interact with my system well at all so I avoid them as much as I possibly can. I take it as a blessing that it puts me away from addiction risk, but it sucks when the rare Tylenol (acetaminophen/paracetamol) doesn’t cut it as my asthma makes NSAIDs a no-go.
Still, I’ll take swearing-pain over dizziness and breathing issues. Been tempted to take a knife to the problem areas myself though.
In the US, the FDA tried to limit how strong the individual capsules can be (325mg), but you can still buy it in 500mg strength. There are mandatory warnings on the label, but you can buy it in 500-tablet (at 325 or 500) bottles over the counter. It took almost 60 years before the FDA did anything, so a lot of people grew up thinking it was harmless.
