Try as I might I don’t think I’ll ever understand people who like manual transmission. I think it’s like some kind of elitism thing? I can drive the annoying esoteric vehicle so I’m better than you?
It’s not like it actually makes you go faster, automatic transmissions are pretty good these days. I’ve tried to drive manual vehicles and it just required way too much of my attention for what should be a simple means of conveyance.
At some point in time it was argued that manual allowed finer control of engine efficiency to automatic which simply shifted at certain speeds or rpms that weren’t always ideal. So properly driving a manual meant you saved gas.
I dare say in the decades since that argument began, automatic transmissions have gotten way better and reasonably as efficient as the average manual driver.
Also, when manuals were more generally common, they were generally cheaper than automatics. I don’t know if that’s true anymore, but I think the average person will have a hard time finding a manual new (consumer grade) vehicle in any given dealership in the US these days – you’d have to get it ordered.
I’ve tried to drive manual vehicles and it just required way too much of my attention for what should be a simple means of conveyance.
Driving a manual doesn’t require any more attention than an automatic. Here almost everyone learns in a manual and by the time you get your license it’s something you don’t need to think about.
If you’re used to manual, driving an automatic for the first time is a pretty scary experience. Half the controls you need to operate the car are missing.
It’s not an elitism thing as almost everyone drives a manual. My late mom drove a manual at 72, including dragging a big caravan all across Europe.
Used to be that the only people who drove an automatic were people with (mental) health issues. If you got a manual-only license it used to have a big stamp across it that said ‘AUTOMATIC ONLY’. If you got one of those as a physically healthy 18yo it might as well have said ‘RETARDED’, as that would have been the only reason to get one.
Nowadays with electric cars becoming more common having an automatic-only license has become socially acceptable.
It’s weird to me that y’all don’t appreciate the convenience of advancing technology.
It’s like going “only mentally disabled folks use microwaves, the rest of us light the wood stove and let it simmer for a half hour”
Especially when Europe is known for its electric kettles, which are only recently becoming common in the US, who have traditionally used range-heated kettles.
Shit… are you also all still on Nokia 3310s and connecting to the internet with SLIP/PPP too?
It’s weird to me that y’all don’t appreciate the convenience of advancing technology.
You’re operating from the incorrect assumption that an automatic is more convenient while it isn’t.
Try this: stand up, walk to the other side of the room and back. Was that inconvenient? Did you have to consciously place your legs and think about how to use your feet? No. You just want to go in a certain direction and your legs just move without you needing to think about it.
Driving a manual is the same. You don’t consciously operate the gearbox, you just drive. Shifting gears doesn’t require conscious thought. An automatic isn’t convenient, quite the opposite, as it gives you less control.
Why don’t you use a wheelchair? Surely rolling around is more convenient than balancing on two legs? It’s because balancing on two legs isn’t actually that inconvenient once you learned how. It was when you were a baby, but we help babies learn to walk instead of putting them in a wheelchair. Same goes for driving a manual. Once you learn to a point where you no longer need to think about it, it’s more convenient than an automatic.
It’s like going “only mentally disabled folks use microwaves, the rest of us light the wood stove and let it simmer for a half hour”
Good analogy. Now go microwave a steak while I cook one over a wood fire, which steak do you think will turn out the most delicious?
Actually there used to be another, more important reason:
Back in the old days, automatic transmissions accelerated pretty slowly. It was not possible to accelerate normally – or what we thought to be normal. No one in their right mind would pay ~5–10 % more (automatic transmissions used to be expensive) to get a lame car and annoy everybody at every traffic light. I don’t know when automatic transmissions got as fast as manual shifting, but this memo hasn’t reached Europe yet.
And, last but not least, and only still valid argument: automatic transmissions are still more expensive than manual ones. Why should I pay extra money for some fancy tech with no extra benefit that takes away my illusion of control and feels horrible to drive?
Manuals are more engaging. Getting a smooth shift or a perfect rev match on a downshift is very satisfying. Shifting gears when your have a car with smooth, very mechanical shifter feels even more satisfying.
If you ever have to gun it in an emergency with a manual the acceleration is instant. In an automatic you have to wait a few seconds for the transmission to figure out what gear it wants to be in before anything actually happens.
Generally, in an automatic, the connection between the engine and the wheels doesn’t feel very mechanical. It feels like they are connected but a rubber band.
In a manual you feel much more like the car is an extension of you.
Going back to driving an automatic usually feels like you’re being handed a children’s toy. The whole experience feels hollow like it’s missing something substantial.
I guess there can be some elitist mindset to being able to do something that fewer and fewer people can do. But thinking that this is the main reason why people love driving stick is downright ignorant.
The “satisfaction” is probably novelty. UK/EU, nobody thinks about it.
I think there’s a kind of fetishisation of manual transmission in the US. Like your emergency scenario: I guess if you need to accelerate away from 30-50 feral hogs then you might welcome it.
Manual: floor it, instant pull. If I want to downshift I will.
Automatic: floor it, hesitation, downshift, revs go higher but nothing happens because it isn’t sure if it wants to downshift again, hesitation, downshifts, revs go crazy and outside of power band or just at the top end of it, shitty pull, upshifts almost right after. Finally some pull after wasting three seconds.
I’ve driven countless various automatic vehicles. They all do that to varying degrees of disappointment.
The only time I had a delay was when I had a car that took half a second for VTEC to kick in, I’ve never had an automatic that took SECONDS to go vroom
Well then you are misunderstanding what I’m talking about because you’re trying to tell me that a behavior that I have noticed to be common on dozens of automatic vehicles that I have driven over two decades doesn’t exist.
It’s just more fun dude. Manual transmissions make shitty cars bearable, and nicer cars exhilarating. Plus I really like having that direct control over the car. Plus they tend to be more reliable and cheaper to repair. There’s not much else too it.
I’ve tried to drive manual vehicles and it just required way too much of my attention for what should be a simple means of conveyance.
That just means that you haven’t developed the muscle memory yet, you had that same learning period with every other aspect of driving, operating a manual transmission is just one more. So you know, if you’re serious, practice.
I’ve been driving manuals exclusively for so long that I actually have the opposite problem, In the rare situations that I need to drive an auto, I have to be super careful and mindful. I’ve literally stabbed the brake before in an auto with my left foot instinctively looking for the clutch, so I have to conciously keep that foot still.
You’re making it sound a lot harder and more painful than it is. Do you also judge people who ride a 2-wheeled vehicles that “require attention” for staying balanced?
Had a previous car that was manual. Then I bought a car with a CVT (continuously variable transmission) and it’s such a nuisance because it is always unpredictable when it will shift. So you go to pass someone, step on the gas and sometimes it takes off and other times it fiddles with shifting for a second before giving you any power. Can also be a real pain in stop and go traffic because it will have unpredictable amounts of power when starting from a stop. I’ve had this vehicle since 2017 and it’s always been this way. I don’t miss having to shift constantly but I do miss having a reliable amount of power when I’m in a certain gear - that’s what is so nice about a manual transmission. You feel more in control of the car. That said, my daily driver now is electric with no transmission and that is the best of all.
Is your CVT vehicle a Honda? I know Nissan CVTs have had their issues but the Toyota ones have a fixed/real first gear before they switch to the CVT to give you that reliable start from 0 mph/kph.
It’s more enjoyable is the main thing. It’s more fun to drive a manual car to many people and that’s their appeal. There are a few other advantages to it as well. They’re generally more reliable and have better fuel economy and performance than automatics that were offered until the 2010s.
Esoteric? I’ve only encountered a handful of automatic cars in my life here in the UK. Having a licence that only covers automatic has historically been rather limiting here. The only person I know that has that has dyspraxia.
For me the appeal of a manual transmission is in engine braking. When driving an ICE car I barely need the brakes because the majority of my speed management is through engine braking. Fortunately my electric car has the option for pseudo engine braking - and it charges the battery too!
Yeah but it’s not really feasible to use it at every corner and stop like you can a manual car. Engine braking in an auto is mostly just for doing long descents without riding the brakes too much
When I’ve driven an automatic I could only manually set the gears for first and second. I’m sure that’s not universal as nothing is, but I can only speak to my own experience.
I would usually use fourth when decelerating up to a junction and then switch directly to second as I get close, as an example.
Most people have manual cars in the UK. Automatics are the weirder, more esoteric ones to us.
I think it’s more or less a cultural thing at this point
FWIW I believe competitive drivers prefer manual control (even if the gearbox itself is automatic) because controlling when the gear change happens can make a difference in a race
I believe they’re just cheaper and technically they allow you to get a bit more from your car, but yea apart from that, not much
In some countries there are more manual cars so I get them, but trashing on automatic is just dumb. It’s much more enjoyable (people I know told me that). Most manual drivers have muscle memory so it’s not really something that takes too much place in their mind, but I guess having to remember less could make you more focused on the road.
Disclaimer: I have an automatic driver license, and no manual driver license haha
having to remember less could make you more focused on the road.
On contrary, in my opinion. Especially in cities, where manual forces me to anticipate the next turn, light or other drivers. Automatic makes me zone out and focus on everything but driving.
Try as I might I don’t think I’ll ever understand people who like manual transmission. I think it’s like some kind of elitism thing? I can drive the annoying esoteric vehicle so I’m better than you?
It’s not like it actually makes you go faster, automatic transmissions are pretty good these days. I’ve tried to drive manual vehicles and it just required way too much of my attention for what should be a simple means of conveyance.
At some point in time it was argued that manual allowed finer control of engine efficiency to automatic which simply shifted at certain speeds or rpms that weren’t always ideal. So properly driving a manual meant you saved gas.
I dare say in the decades since that argument began, automatic transmissions have gotten way better and reasonably as efficient as the average manual driver.
Also, when manuals were more generally common, they were generally cheaper than automatics. I don’t know if that’s true anymore, but I think the average person will have a hard time finding a manual new (consumer grade) vehicle in any given dealership in the US these days – you’d have to get it ordered.
Driving a manual doesn’t require any more attention than an automatic. Here almost everyone learns in a manual and by the time you get your license it’s something you don’t need to think about.
If you’re used to manual, driving an automatic for the first time is a pretty scary experience. Half the controls you need to operate the car are missing.
It’s not an elitism thing as almost everyone drives a manual. My late mom drove a manual at 72, including dragging a big caravan all across Europe.
Used to be that the only people who drove an automatic were people with (mental) health issues. If you got a manual-only license it used to have a big stamp across it that said ‘AUTOMATIC ONLY’. If you got one of those as a physically healthy 18yo it might as well have said ‘RETARDED’, as that would have been the only reason to get one.
Nowadays with electric cars becoming more common having an automatic-only license has become socially acceptable.
It’s weird to me that y’all don’t appreciate the convenience of advancing technology.
It’s like going “only mentally disabled folks use microwaves, the rest of us light the wood stove and let it simmer for a half hour”
Especially when Europe is known for its electric kettles, which are only recently becoming common in the US, who have traditionally used range-heated kettles.
Shit… are you also all still on Nokia 3310s and connecting to the internet with SLIP/PPP too?
You’re operating from the incorrect assumption that an automatic is more convenient while it isn’t.
Try this: stand up, walk to the other side of the room and back. Was that inconvenient? Did you have to consciously place your legs and think about how to use your feet? No. You just want to go in a certain direction and your legs just move without you needing to think about it.
Driving a manual is the same. You don’t consciously operate the gearbox, you just drive. Shifting gears doesn’t require conscious thought. An automatic isn’t convenient, quite the opposite, as it gives you less control.
Why don’t you use a wheelchair? Surely rolling around is more convenient than balancing on two legs? It’s because balancing on two legs isn’t actually that inconvenient once you learned how. It was when you were a baby, but we help babies learn to walk instead of putting them in a wheelchair. Same goes for driving a manual. Once you learn to a point where you no longer need to think about it, it’s more convenient than an automatic.
Good analogy. Now go microwave a steak while I cook one over a wood fire, which steak do you think will turn out the most delicious?
Actually there used to be another, more important reason:
Back in the old days, automatic transmissions accelerated pretty slowly. It was not possible to accelerate normally – or what we thought to be normal. No one in their right mind would pay ~5–10 % more (automatic transmissions used to be expensive) to get a lame car and annoy everybody at every traffic light. I don’t know when automatic transmissions got as fast as manual shifting, but this memo hasn’t reached Europe yet.
And, last but not least, and only still valid argument: automatic transmissions are still more expensive than manual ones. Why should I pay extra money for some fancy tech with no extra benefit that takes away my illusion of control and feels horrible to drive?
I guess there can be some elitist mindset to being able to do something that fewer and fewer people can do. But thinking that this is the main reason why people love driving stick is downright ignorant.
The “satisfaction” is probably novelty. UK/EU, nobody thinks about it.
I think there’s a kind of fetishisation of manual transmission in the US. Like your emergency scenario: I guess if you need to accelerate away from 30-50 feral hogs then you might welcome it.
No automatic takes “a few seconds” to gun it, I think you might be the one with the flawed experience
Manual: floor it, instant pull. If I want to downshift I will.
Automatic: floor it, hesitation, downshift, revs go higher but nothing happens because it isn’t sure if it wants to downshift again, hesitation, downshifts, revs go crazy and outside of power band or just at the top end of it, shitty pull, upshifts almost right after. Finally some pull after wasting three seconds.
I’ve driven countless various automatic vehicles. They all do that to varying degrees of disappointment.
The only time I had a delay was when I had a car that took half a second for VTEC to kick in, I’ve never had an automatic that took SECONDS to go vroom
There is a difference between engine noise and actual acceleration.
I was referring to acceleration.
Well then you are misunderstanding what I’m talking about because you’re trying to tell me that a behavior that I have noticed to be common on dozens of automatic vehicles that I have driven over two decades doesn’t exist.
It’s just more fun dude. Manual transmissions make shitty cars bearable, and nicer cars exhilarating. Plus I really like having that direct control over the car. Plus they tend to be more reliable and cheaper to repair. There’s not much else too it.
That just means that you haven’t developed the muscle memory yet, you had that same learning period with every other aspect of driving, operating a manual transmission is just one more. So you know, if you’re serious, practice.
I’ve been driving manuals exclusively for so long that I actually have the opposite problem, In the rare situations that I need to drive an auto, I have to be super careful and mindful. I’ve literally stabbed the brake before in an auto with my left foot instinctively looking for the clutch, so I have to conciously keep that foot still.
You’re making it sound a lot harder and more painful than it is. Do you also judge people who ride a 2-wheeled vehicles that “require attention” for staying balanced?
Had a previous car that was manual. Then I bought a car with a CVT (continuously variable transmission) and it’s such a nuisance because it is always unpredictable when it will shift. So you go to pass someone, step on the gas and sometimes it takes off and other times it fiddles with shifting for a second before giving you any power. Can also be a real pain in stop and go traffic because it will have unpredictable amounts of power when starting from a stop. I’ve had this vehicle since 2017 and it’s always been this way. I don’t miss having to shift constantly but I do miss having a reliable amount of power when I’m in a certain gear - that’s what is so nice about a manual transmission. You feel more in control of the car. That said, my daily driver now is electric with no transmission and that is the best of all.
Those shift points are artificial, unnecessary and only programmed that way because people are used to it.
Is your CVT vehicle a Honda? I know Nissan CVTs have had their issues but the Toyota ones have a fixed/real first gear before they switch to the CVT to give you that reliable start from 0 mph/kph.
It’s more enjoyable is the main thing. It’s more fun to drive a manual car to many people and that’s their appeal. There are a few other advantages to it as well. They’re generally more reliable and have better fuel economy and performance than automatics that were offered until the 2010s.
Because they like it. It’s engaging.
But it also forces you to pay better attention, I’m just not going to get snippy about it.
You complaining about the attention… Terrifying. Jesus, you can kill someone.
Esoteric? I’ve only encountered a handful of automatic cars in my life here in the UK. Having a licence that only covers automatic has historically been rather limiting here. The only person I know that has that has dyspraxia.
For me the appeal of a manual transmission is in engine braking. When driving an ICE car I barely need the brakes because the majority of my speed management is through engine braking. Fortunately my electric car has the option for pseudo engine braking - and it charges the battery too!
Automatic cars also have engine braking.
Yeah but it’s not really feasible to use it at every corner and stop like you can a manual car. Engine braking in an auto is mostly just for doing long descents without riding the brakes too much
Some cars have ‘hard’ regenerative braking but yea, it’s rare (thinking about Tesla)
Regen is just an electric car thing though, no? And EVs (with very few exceptions) don’t have a transmission at all?
Regen has been on trains for a long time, fwiw.
Uhhh that sounds right
To be fair I know close to nothing about cars and mechanics
Haha no worries
When I’ve driven an automatic I could only manually set the gears for first and second. I’m sure that’s not universal as nothing is, but I can only speak to my own experience.
I would usually use fourth when decelerating up to a junction and then switch directly to second as I get close, as an example.
Most people have manual cars in the UK. Automatics are the weirder, more esoteric ones to us.
I think it’s more or less a cultural thing at this point
FWIW I believe competitive drivers prefer manual control (even if the gearbox itself is automatic) because controlling when the gear change happens can make a difference in a race
I heard that automatic cars were more common in the USA but idk if that’s true
Nearly 98% of cars sold in the US are automatic. Manual transmissions are often not even an option for a lot of models.
That explains it then! Thanks :)
I believe they’re just cheaper and technically they allow you to get a bit more from your car, but yea apart from that, not much
In some countries there are more manual cars so I get them, but trashing on automatic is just dumb. It’s much more enjoyable (people I know told me that). Most manual drivers have muscle memory so it’s not really something that takes too much place in their mind, but I guess having to remember less could make you more focused on the road.
Disclaimer: I have an automatic driver license, and no manual driver license haha
On contrary, in my opinion. Especially in cities, where manual forces me to anticipate the next turn, light or other drivers. Automatic makes me zone out and focus on everything but driving.
ADHD?
Not that I know of.