I think the bit most people miss here is that most of these weirdly obsessed homophobic types dont think its “just a matter between two concenting adults”. Most of them, either on a consious or subconsious level believe gay marriage etc is somehow causing harm to society as a whole. It doesnt just disgust them, it quite literally terrifies them.
In the case of religeous folks, that terror can extend as far as divine retribution (i.e. floods, hurricanes, natural disasters). In non-religious folks, the terror is probably more akin to stuff like “the breakdown of law and order” or some nebulous threat of societal upheival creating chaos. But in a sense, both are effectively the same because it wont ever work to tell them to “just ignore it”.
When was the last time that calmly explaining to a religious zealot that their god doesnt exist actually succeeded in convincing them?
I dont know the actual solution to this problem. At least for the religeous folks, it will have to involve religeous figures demonstrating acceptance and disavowing sects that refuse along with a lot of actual progress and exposure to get people to empathise and humanise lgbtq+ people and realise that theyre not a threat. Its possible, its actually quite easy once the balls rolling, but its a difficult thing to do to start i think.
And this is obviously not to excuse or diminish the actions of homophobes and anti-progressives. But its important to actually understand the root of the problem if its going to be possible to change them for the better in the future.
Homophobia is the fear that a gay man will one day treat you the way you treat women.
The solution to religion is public welfare. The better people have it, the less need they have to go to something devine to search for answers or have hope because of it. They will also have the ability to learn more about their religion and other religions. That’s the reason religion has been in decline in some countries, or at leas the original religion has been declining in a favour of another religion increasing. Cough Muslim cough. Like we have here in NL.
I dont know the actual solution to this problem. At least for the religeous folks, it will have to involve religeous figures demonstrating acceptance and disavowing sects that refuse along with a lot of actual progress and exposure to get people to empathise and humanise lgbtq+ people and realise that theyre not a threat. Its possible, its actually quite easy once the balls rolling, but its a difficult thing to do to start i think.
In that regard, especially protestant churches are like the open source community: You don’t like what your church is doing? Just fork it and create a new variant that is even more radical.
In the case of the catholic church and other churches with centralized authority it’s more like “Let’s ignore what the Pope says and instead be holier than the Pope, but with holy we mean radical”.
Tbh, I don’t think the base problem is religion/churches here. The base problem is that a huge portion of the population are incredibly fearful and insecure, often bordering (or venturing deeply) into the territory of anxiety disorders. And instead of that getting addressed in therapy, populists (both political and religious) abuse that fear and insecurity to gain power.
The real solution would be easily available free therapy for everyone, preferably during young age, to make sure that at least the large majority of people enter adult life without being petrified of their own shadow.
Lemmy is so gay and I’m here for it. ✌️
But legalized gay marriage = mandatory gay marriage! /s
This is funny and I agree with the message, but the logic doesn’t work. If you apply it to anything other than gay marriage, it’s clear why: homophobes oppose gay marriage on (allegedly) moral grounds; telling someone to simply not engage in (what they see as) immoral behaviour rather than opposing those who perform said behaviour falls apart if you substitute anything generally regarded as immoral, such as stealing or murder. “If you don’t like it, don’t do it,” is fun to say to fellow allies, but a genuine homophobe can just reply, “well if you don’t like assault, don’t assault someone” as they attack you. I think a better argument would note the fact that any marriage only concerns those getting married, and doesn’t harm anyone. “If you oppose gay marriage, mind your own damn business”.
They are too afraid they won’t say no. Within every crazed bible thumping conservative is a closeted gay that will eventually get caught having sex with a guy in an airport bathroom.
Great. Go post it on twitter. I can’t think of a more pointless place to post this than lemmy
Wait, I’m allowed to say no? I didn’t need to marry him? That’s not what my bro said when he proposed! I should divorce him, but well… Too late now to turn back. 💀
I would be compelled to say yes. Not because I’m gay but because I respect their bravery putting themselves out there by asking the question.
I would be compelled to say yes. Not because I’m gay, but because I really hate to displease people.
Yes, but the problem is gay media will turn our children gay and the secret magic formula from SATAN is so clever that it only works in one direction and watching straight media doesn’t turn gay kids straight! Look, it makes sense when you don’t think about it!
But what if an extremely pretty women proposes to me :3
(Ik an extremely horrifying scenario)
Depends. If you’re a straight male, haha no that will never happen, we have done everything as a society to ensure it will be a thousand years before gender roles are abolished enough that we will treat men and women as equally-powered individuals in any relationship.
If you’re a straight woman, then congratulations, you’re in a “brave” hollywood perspective of homosexual relationships where gay people are never allowed to have a “normal” relationship, and it always has to be either tragic or unrequited, because we broadly associate being gay with something negative and we never want to see gay couples live happily ever after, particularly lesbians, they die faster than people of color in a horror movie.
If you’re a lesbian or bisexual woman, then you’re entering some world of mystery and fear that mortals will never know without the aid of a warp navigator and a series of ancient artifacts that grant protection from the arcane.
How does nonbinary fit into this scenario?
If only it was that easy for their weak minds.
Those stupid sexy gay people! Being so attractive!
I’m actually opposed to all state recognized marriages in the Unites States. I believe it violates the separation of church and state clause of the 1st Amendment. This is the same reason that people who (genuinely) oppose gay marriage oppose it.
If adult couples want to enter a legal contract joining their assets and income, then that should be available to everyone regardless of gender or sexual orientation, but that should also be separate from the religious covenant of marriage and associated ceremonies performed in a church.
So I’m opposed to state recognized gay marriage, but I’m also opposed to state recognized heterosexual marriages for the same reason.
What about Civil Marriage ?
The sky man don’t need to be involved at all.
The Libertarian Mind everyone. Functional normal people can’t even imagine.
Wouldn’t a legally binding contract be “state recognized”?
Absolutely. What I’m saying is that all couples can apply for the same legal contract, call it a civil partnership license, civil union, joint household contract or something to that extent. Marriage licenses no longer exist.
I can attest to this. I’m a cis man and not ever has another man ever proposed to me in a gay way. I’m what you would call “ugly looking”. I might find it flattering if someone did propose. But my wife would not be amused. I do understand that other men might be offended by someone telling them how strong their friendship is and that they want to be with you always. But that’s just some men (the dangerous one probably)
Some dude carrying most of a bicycle said hello today and then told me I looked good.
It was nice to hear. Since I don’t want to fuck someone who could very well have been homeless and, judging from the parts of the bike he had was probably on meth, I just said thanks and moved on. Like, I could have taken is a compliment or been like so many insecure jerkoffs and got up in arms about it, but just because you’re straight doesn’t mean a compliment stops feeling good.
Look this won’t work because the people who oppose gay marriage are the same people who do not understand the concept of consent.
As usual it can be boiled down to projection. They think they’ll become the victim of what they fantasize of doing to women.
Can they, though?
