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- cross-posted to:
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- [email protected]
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Hiring is working as intended*
Poor people always land the most competitive salaries…
The salary competes with the bills
And by competitive, we mean it will make you compete for the last scraps at the food bank.
i wonder if family structures will change to be closer to that of India as children are forced to stay with their parents longer and longer
“Our company develops AI. It has many uses and should substitute for human labor whenever possible.”
“USE OF AI BY APPLICANTS IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED!”
As funny as it is when presented that way, it does make sense. After all if a company is using AI wherever possible, and yet hiring a person, then presumably it’s because they want that person to do things they don’t want to be using AI for.
OTOH assuming the hiring process is competent at assessing job fitness, an applicant who gets through it using AI should be fit to do the job with AI.
Using AI is very different from developing AI.
And…?
Yes, developing AI is different from all sorts of things - that’s why an AI dev hiring process would assess competence at AI dev. If a candidate demonstrated competence doing that job, using tools they’ll have available at work, what’s the problem?
I don’t know why people simply say, “Thing A is different from Thing B,” as if it’s a mic drop.
Tell me you know absolutely nothing about the work we actually do without telling me huh.
The top level comment is about AI development not AI use.
Speaking as someone with more than a decade of experience developing AI: prompting ChatGPT to write your cover letter for an AI dev role is at best neutral to your ability to perform the job, at worst a sign of total incompetence.
It’s fucking funny to me how every two years people dream up new and novel ideas of what it is we do based off nothing but vibes lmao
Real conversation, not exaggerated. Actually slightly toned down:
“We offer a competitive salary! It’s $number!”
“I have 2 offers 10% higher, from a shipping company and a finance company, in the same city”
“We don’t compete with the finance and shipping sectors”
“And 15% higher in one of the consultancies”
“We don’t compete with consultancies either”
(I think I’m going to put Reigninh Monarch of Norway on my CV. I just don’t compete with King Harald.)
LOL I hope you told them “Dude you ARE competing with those companies for my skills, so are you in or not?” It’s really that simple.
At one interview I wasn’t really sure about my answer to a question, so after giving it I asked how they would do it, and the guy who asked said, “Well, I’m not the one being interviewed.” I kept my mouth shut because I really liked everybody else I had talked to, but I wanted to go all Jules on the guy like, “Oh yes you are, Brett, yes you are!” Some employers don’t get that an applicant is also interviewing them (at least I always was).
Haha, that’s the attitude :)
I did say, in a nice way, that “they are your competitors either way”.
And yeah, companies treating interviews as a one-way evaluation is a red flag.
There was this book that was hype around 2010, called “Are you smart enough to work at Google?”. It was full of interview questions and brainteasers that I strongly suspected I’d find interesting, but I couldn’t get over the title. I wanted to scream “Fuck you, book! Is Google smart enough to hire ME?!”
We are, as a profession, systematically manipulated via these interview processes to feel stupid and inferior to drive down wages. I’d rather come off as slightly too arrogant now and then, rather than submit to that.
I’m just glad I never had to put up with corpo shit like that. I only work for smaller businesses with like at max 20 people. Pay is usually a bit worse at the start, but it’s easier to ask for raises down the line and at least I’m treated like a human, not a number in lexware.
Had a job interview once where they asked me how much I was expecting to make. I told them and they responded with “Yeah, I think we can do that.” Then when they called me to offer me the job they had lowered it by a few bucks an hour. I took it because I had to at the time. They knew that people are desperate and this was their strategy with everyone. Fucking scum.
LPT:
“What are you expecting to make?”
Correct answer: Your real target (based on your own market research for the position) +15%.
Why? Because they’re going to target your acceptable range at -10%, and make the offer right around there.
Then, you can come back and say “I might be able to make that work, as long as X, Y and / or Z are part of the package” where XYZ is anything from remote work to reimbursement for commute mileage.
If they say no to the added XYZ and you’re desperate, well go ahead and accept, because you’ve just earned yourself +5% of what you were targeting. If they say yes, well, even better.
Don’t go higher than 15% - this could kill the offer entirely if you misjudge the interview. 15% seems to be the sweet spot in my experience, based on a 30 year career.
A system cannot fail those it was never meant to protect.
I’ve also noticed “competitive” seems to mean “just above what they believe the competition’s minimum is”, and together they and their competition drive the wages down.
There was an article about staffing agencies spamming LLM generated CVs to companies to saturate the market and convince companies that hiring is impossibly hard
Hell even without that hiring is really really hard. Im the IT manager for my company and I’m looking to hire for some level 1 help desk type positions. They don’t need to be super experienced, but they do need to know things like “what is group policy” or “how would you troubleshoot this hypothetical issue”. Basically they should be able to pass the Comptia A+ test, even if they dont actually have it.
My God I got over 600 applications within a business week! The vast majority of those applicants were from people with no experience, lots of experience in a different field!
Like I was getting these applicants from people who have 15 years of plumbing or machining experience. Or people who clearly haven’t been able to hold down a job (if you bounce from minimum wage job to minimum wage job every other month, that’s a bad look). Or on the other end of the spectrum, I was getting people with decades of sysadmin experience applying too.
I had to start having HR filter the top and bottom out of the stack so I could actually see useful data.
I wonder if a staffing agency might have spammed you with LLM generated CVs.
One of the best ones I ever got was an ‘engineer’ who described driving around in his van ‘fixing things’ applying for a machine learning engineer position.
I once saw an ad looking to hire someone with a BA that knew 3 computer programming languages for $8 an hour.
I know JavaScript! JS! ECMAScript 5! ECMAScript 6!
I know word, excel, powerpoint
/s
(but then again macros are a thing)
I know JavaScript, TypeScript, and ECMAScript.
entry level job; salary range $30,000 - $150,000 depending on qualifications and experience; 10 yrs experience required; high school diploma required, Phd preferred
apply today!
Phd preferred
Weird way to spell required
My last job had close to that range. There is a hiring range is typically 50-70% of the maximum. Below 50% is the developmental range for laddering underqualified internal hires. Over 70% is for very experienced, overqualified candidates. Generally employers won’t go more than 85% of max because they need a couple years of cushion for salary increases. If they hire at max they know the candidate is going to be back on the market in a year.
It almost seems like it would be better to quote only the range at which they intend to actually hire, rather than dangling the best case maximum you could ever potentially earn at the absolute pinnacle of your tenure in the position. But maybe other smarter-than-me people expect the top number to mean that?
(We will always offer you pay on the lower end of the scale)
High school diploma is barely an entry barrier, completely reasonable IMO for anything other than a factory button-pusher.
“High school diploma required; PhD preferred” translates to “we’re only reading this application if you have a PhD or we get no other applicants”.
You missed the point
Sorry we’ve decided to move forward with other candidates (You’re not the VP’s son).
1 month later, the exact same job posting is listed again
New recruitment process, who this?
The fact that the majority of us are essentially forced to participate in the capitalist market means that we will always be at the mercy of greasy, compliant, ass-sucking ‘bosses.’
We don’t have any freedom with work unless we have the freedom not to work.
We don’t have any freedom with work unless we have the freedom not to work.
What are you talking about? We have the freedom to not work and die cold and hungry in the streets just like the founding fathers intended!
Capitalism is slavery with extra steps.
Survival takes effort, whether that means working in an office or in a hunter gatherer tribe
Like gdog said, no, you don’t actually. Being homeless is illegal in a ton of places.
We don’t have that freedom either. We have the freedom to be constantly harassed or imprisoned for not having a paid residence.
We need to have 4 years expirenece on techology version {current_year}
