It’s nice of you to leal to Israel but that’s not what I was referring to.
There’s other policies that the Democrats could have absolutely pushed for. For instance reinstating the protection plans under the American relief plan that they allowed to expire in 2022. You know the thing they said massively reduce child poverty only for it to go immediately back up when those protections ended. I feel like that would have been a great place for the Dems to start. We’re talking basic fucking things like a Band-Aid fix on Healthcare would be enough to mobilize the base but they’re not even willing to do that. Kamalas pathetic approach to Home Care was to give first-time home buyers $12,000. This is stupid because nobody can afford a house or get the mortgage for the house because the banks aren’t satisfied with their debt to income ratio. Nothing about dealing with rent nothing about promising that linacon would stay on. Nothing about dealing with that internet driven rent demand bullshit from that company called real price. These aren’t leftist points either just broad liberal points.
Yeah. You’re right honestly, it was too much to ask the Democrats to stop funding and arming a genocide. It’s not their fault at all, no sir no way. It’s the fault of the plaestinian Americans who refused to vote for people committing genocide against their communities.
Youre so smart. So principled. You know exactly who’s fault this situation is. It’s those damn Palestinians not wanting to vote for people arming genocide against them. How dare they.
The democrats had no choice. They HAD to keep committing genocide against Palestine. Poor Joe, he felt so bad for the Palestinians whenever he signed off on the next missile shipment to Israel. :( He even shed a little tear each time. The poor boy he just had no choice he had to keep arming genocide. He really felt so awful about it the whole time 😔 he’d sometimes even forget that it was happening at all and then remember and feel bad all over again.
It’s so normal that you blame the Palestinian Americans who wouldn’t vote for people arming the genocide of their people. Yup. There’s NOTHING the Democrats could’ve done differently. You should just keep on defending them forever. You know what, you should do one even better and support them as they continue to slide to the right. Instead of fighting for the party to change, you should continue to blindly support them even as they support the indiscriminate slaughter of starving Gazan children.
I should hope the /s isn’t needed here. I’m so fucking tired.
Hey Kamala, just say Genocide bad … just once, you don’t even need to action it, we all know politicians lie as easily as breath. Just once and you make history.
The walking special K ad throwing salutes is the result of protest votes not the continuing genocide. Palestine would burn under either administration.
So , like always, the problem is made worse because single issue voters lack the mental capacity to think about more than one thing at a time.
If you think the Dems were only a bad choice on a single issue then you might be interested in this bridge I have for sale.
Yeah, and the last several days hasn’t told us anything about how different things would have been.
Fucking delusional…
The delusional ones are still dreaming about how different things might have been if they turned out differently.
The clear-eyed ones have been preparing to run, hide, or fight since long before November.
single issue voters
I hate how people see a single criticism about the topic at hand and claim that’s all someone has issues with…
Like, it just makes no rationale sense, and when someone does start listing multiple reasons, they get screeched at because it’s off topic.
I just legitimately don’t understand how people don’t understand and legitimately believe what you just said…
But here we are again.
I hate how people see a single criticism about the topic at hand and claim that’s all someone has issues with…
Numerous people on here openly said that genocide was the ‘one issue’ stopping them, supposedly, from voting Dem.
You’ve been active on here. You’ve seen them. Don’t play stupid.
His username givesomefucks is an oxymoron
Maybe, maybe not, but either way now we have a situation where anyone who’s not a white+male+cis+het+christian just got a big target painted on them in no small part due to those protest votes and the push to have democrats stay home.
Democrats didn’t stay home, that’s pure cope. They failed to swing undecided voters.
I totally agree that voting in your broken system is just harm reduction at best; but Kamala could have walked it in if that was the goal.
I totally agree that voting in your broken system
Are you not a US voter?
Oops.
Netanyahu wanted Trump to win, that should tell you ALL you needed to know
Yet Biden continued to put Israel over America…
And Kamala pledged to be the same as Biden.
So why aren’t you blaming them for continuing to support a genocide even though literally every poll said it was going to get trump elected?
It’s not a genocide.
Yet Netanyahu continued to publicly and explicitly support Trump…
And didn’t cop out with a “I have no opinion on the matter”, as he would have if it didn’t matter, like you say
Yet Netanyahu continued to publicly and explicitly support Trump…
And I’d call him an idiot for it, because I couldn’t and still can’t understand why Biden and Kamala put up with it.
Like, Bibi is an asshole. trump is an asshole.
No one is debating that.
But Biden and Kamala either couldn’t see that, or understood that and for some reason kept supporting Bibi and his genocide.
They were Charlie Brown lining up to kick the football over and over again. Except this time with Lucy openly saying she’d yank the ball and calling Charlie an idiot for continuing to try.
Well many did, but acknowledged a trump presidency would be worse.
At worst, on the topic of Israel it was a net equal position. Time will tell if trump is even worse than Biden on Israel. (I personally expect so, as Biden wanted status quo, trump wants American invested condos in gaza once it’s “cleared out”)
So why aren’t you blaming them for continuing to support a genocide even though literally every poll said it was going to get trump elected?
“Palestine wasn’t important enough to throw the election to literal fascists who will ensure that there’s a genocide both here and in Israel, so don’t be mad at Palestine protest voters!” + “Palestine was the issue which threw the election, if only the LIBS had listened to us!”
There is simply no contradiction there. Supporting fascism and genocide cost Dems the election. Their ideology wasn’t different enough from Trump to offer anything of value.
Harris, you might remember, proposed and supported border legislation that is still further right wing than what Trump has implemented or has stated he’s planned on implementing.
Exactly what freaked me out in the later months of 2023. He wanted to tank Biden, the guy sending billions, because the next guy would be worse.
I would be curious to see the numbers but I don’t think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn’t help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
It wouldn’t have been a landslide, but it certainly assured the worst case scenario, MAGA sweeping all 3.
Who knows how it would have gone down otherwise, maybe the Democrats regained the house, maybe held onto the Senate. Maybe Trump would have lost, but Republicunts held onto Congress.
Who knows, but any of those would have been 10000x better than letting Drump get a hold of all 3.
Now everyone is screwed in some way.
MAGA sweeping all 3.
A lot of the House Senate races are likely due to the “victory fund” nonsense Hillary started and was then passed down to Biden and Kamala
The way it gets away donation limits is using the max from state parties. The last time we got to see the books was after 2016, and states got like 1% of what was donated “for them” to the DNC and Clinton campaigns
There’s no sign anything has changed, and the neoliberals running the party have no requirements to disclose them
So I just assume if they’re hiding the books, they’re hiding grifts at this point.
If they did, then all the neolibs were wrong that voters don’t care about Palestine…
Which logically means the party needs to move to the left at least enough so that genocide isn’t acceptable.
Instead, they act like fucking trump supporters and brag that a genocide is still happening.
There’s zero logic or empathy with them, which is why some people call them “blue maga”.
They’re the ones that didn’t stop watching CNN even after the new buyers blatantly and publicly said their goal was to become the fox news if he left.
You are aware that people can hold two beliefs at once, right?
- Democrats are not doing enough and were actively allowing a genocide under their watch.
- Inside our current system, the most powerful act a citizen can perform is voting.
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
See, this is where communication always breaks down…
If a progressive is politically active right now it’s safe to assume that they held their nose and voted D.
Which I’ve done just like I’ve always done.
But we tried to warn people trump was going to win if Dems kept moving right…
Dems kept moving right, and we were right. Then when we try to talk about how to win next time and how to gain back all the votes moving right cost us…
We get people trying to say we’re the problem because we want to fucking win.
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
I got a big post history, plenty of opportunities for you to find a single comment where I’ve ever advocated for not voting for the least evil candidate in the general.
But if you got a little faith you can take my word it’s not in here.
Yes, it is possible to be extremely ignorant of the effectiveness of various political actions.
Whether you are for or against voting, claiming it’s the most powerful act a citizen can perform is completely absurd. I don’t know a single informed person of any ideology who thinks this.
Phrasing matters. There is a reason I put “Inside the system”.
What is the reason?
Maybe I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. The way I understand it, it’s very misleading or incorrect. There are plenty of actions people can take that are far more impactful than voting. I guess whether those various actions are categorized as inside or outside of the system might be up for debate in some cases. But I’m not sure why you would even be imposing that restriction in the first place.
The reason I said, “inside the system” is that we need to use the avenues provided to us to try to fight back along side other means, such as protests. We need to unify now more than ever, so lumping everyone who uses the system to affect change into “blue MAGA” is only harming progress.
I agree completely with the need to unify. I just want people to stop thinking politics begins and ends with voting. Even if you don’t want to do anything disruptive there are still things you can do like canvassing or letter-writing or becoming local party delegate and influencing parties from the inside. I largely agree with leftists that the system will never be completely transformed from the inside but it’s better than doing nothing.
However I also think we’re getting to the point where more disruptive civil resistance actions will be necessary.
Inside our current system, the most powerful act a citizen can perform is voting.
That “inside” is doing increasingly heavy lifting these days. Seems to me that increasingly the only successful change comes from working outside the system.
How do you define that? Because all I’m hearing is you want to be the unibomber.
Id say anyone with half a brain, paid attention and was an informed voter knew exactly this is what we were in for - but it’s clear most Americans are not informed because of the huge number of people who didn’t participate (for whatever reasons)
Highly engaged voters voted overwhelmingly for Kamala. Not because they liked her, but because they knew the alternative was dog shit. This is not an ideal situation.
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn’t cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
The dimbass games are posts like this instead of arguing for civil disruption and actions beyond elections. The protesters entire point was the election won’t stop the genocide either way and further action is needed. Trying to bait them into an argument about an election that’s already fucking over serves nothing. Unless you don’t care about the issue in the first place and just want to be divisive about it.
What actions do you suggest?
Any direct action and organizing, frankly. From mutual aid and disruptive protests to boycott, sabotage, and strike(which would take years to organize).
The protesters entire point was the election won’t stop the genocide either way and further action is needed.
And in the interest of furthering that point, they did everything they could to ensure a Democratic defeat. After all, if Palestinians are genocided by Israel, it’s only fair that American minorities get genocided by Republicans, right?
Trying to bait them into an argument about an election that’s already fucking over serves nothing.
I’m not trying to bait them into any sort of argument. They’re long past help. They’re out here on Lemmy already praising Trump as the ‘lesser evil’ and insisting, even now, that there’s no difference between Trump and Harris in terms of policy. Any argument with them is fucking pointless.
But I’m sorry that you don’t like that I’m not giving them asspats for their ‘principled’ stand against American minorities over an issue that, even according to your summary of their motivations, they realized would not be changed by their attacks on the non-fascist candidate in the election.
After all, if Palestinians are genocided by Israel, it’s only fair that American minorities get genocided by Republicans, right?
Solidarity for me, but not for thee. It doesn’t work out well.
Yes, this is why the smartest choice for LGBT folk in 1939 Poland would have been to welcome the Nazis, what with Poland being, at the time, far from LGBT-friendly. Because if there’s not solidarity for everyone, there should be solidarity for no one.
/s, for all of those out there patting each other on the back over ensuring the fascist won the 2024 American presidential election.
Or maybe when voting makes it impossible to achieve justice you should move towards other forms of resistance, like my original point was.
Or maybe when voting makes it impossible to achieve justice
Oh, of course, when you can’t achieve justice by voting, the correct decision is to ensure that voting results in the worst possible resolution. If you can’t have justice, you must have as much injustice as possible. The only moral choice, of course. Basic accelerationism. Every good revolutionary knows this.
you should move towards other forms of resistance, like my original point was.
Like fucking what? The easy answer of “We’re going to rise up and firebomb the rich any day now :‘’')” has been parroted by leftist wannabe suburban kids since the 70s; fuck’s sake, I’ve heard the line myself for the past 20 fucking years. And what has happened? Where are these masses ready to rise up, since they find voting no longer radical enough for their tastes?
They aren’t exchanging voting for more effective forms of change. They’re just abandoning voting, and replacing it with jack fucking shit. They continue to sit on their fucking asses, like always. They don’t organize en masse, they don’t take up lone wolf violence. They do nothing, except play at purity games to jerk themselves off over how pure they are for abandoning as many minorities and oppressed groups as they can to literal fucking fascists. And you know who suffers for it?
All of us.
Fuck’s sake.
Part of that resistance is nonparticipation. It’s an expected outcome.
Are you fucking kidding me? “Resistance is nonparticipation”?
What a fucking joke. Am I suppose to thank these twats for nonparticipating us into camps? Should I thank them for nonparticipating Ukraine into a potential genocide? What did nonparticipation gain us ‘revolutionary’ elements? Are we better poised to strike against the system now? No? We’re actually worse off? Fucking fantastic.
I voted for Harris but you don’t see me clutching my pearls over the idea that maybe this system just needs to go.
“This system needs to go” does not need the addendum “Therefore, I’m going to make the system as terrible as possible”.
Well said. I really wish people understood that blame can be shared because they really don’t seem to understand that and haven’t since November.
They understand. They just don’t want the blame and want to shift the responsibility for their irresponsible actions to anyone but themselves.
single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
Except they didnt vote for trump and it’s disgusting to pretend otherwise
Except they didnt vote for trump and it’s disgusting to pretend otherwise
But they helped him become president. Do you understand that you can help someone become president even if you don’t vote for them? Is that a concept that you can grasp?
But they helped him become president
Millions of people in solid blue states didn’t vote, you think they helped Trump win?
Blanket statements like “if they didn’t vote they voted for trump” are fucking stupid when you look at literally any detailed data
Pro-Israel voters absolutely voted for Trump.
So we’re discussing a tiny portion of people now to avoid being called out for the authoritarian vote bullshit now, eh?
So we’re discussing a tiny portion of people now to avoid being called out for the authoritarian vote bullshit now, eh?
What is that supposed to even mean?
Well at least you admit to awful reading capabilities
Bruh, I explicitly made the point of “Being a small part of the problem does not absolve people of being part of the problem”, and your response is
So we’re discussing a tiny portion of people now to avoid being called out for the authoritarian vote bullshit now, eh?
Between the fact that we were discussing a ‘tiny portion of people’ from the very start and that ‘authoritarian vote bullshit’ is a vague phrase that makes no solid assertions except “vote bad >:(” for some reason, you’ve said nothing of substance unless there’s some means of clarifying. I offered you a chance to clarify. You declined.
Don’t really know how much more help you want here. I’m not here to spoonfeed you, guy.
Because the effect is the same. Sorry, again, you might finally experience what others have been.
If you think this shit is gonna be worse internally than externally; you’re gonna have a bad time.
But hey, you know best right? Nobody told you what would happen before, right? They weren’t all proven correct, right?
Haha it’s people with flawed logic like you who deserve all the blame.
People who think like you should have to pass aptitude tests before they vote since they literally lined up behind an undemocratically appointed presidential candidate who had no concrete policy position except vibez and no fundamental changes from Biden.
People who couldn’t see an obvious and humiliating loss coming for Harris and the democrats since Biden was the candidate are the only people responsible for this disaster.
The democrats could have given you options. They didn’t because they don’t care about you. They paraded around a half-dead 80 year old man as competent and made excuses for his ineptitude while telling everyone who said he wasn’t fit that they were the ones who were actually crazy. Then they do a last minute bait and switch because he is literally falling apart before the world’s eyes. They lied to you over and over and you are still carrying water for them. Does the history of the situation not matter now that Trump is president?
That’s exactly why people are being called bluemaga.
Yes, of course, how could I not see that “no fundamental changes from Biden” was a horror worth electing a literal fascist. Thank you for informing me that worsening every issue facing us was the preferable choice in order to teach those darn Dems a lesson. Many of us filthy poors and minorities will suffer and die, but that’s a sacrifice you and your’s are willing to make, right?
Why are you hung up on the idea of teaching democrats a lesson? Democrats are not owed votes. They have to earn them. They did not earn them this time for a multitude of reasons, but you want to blame everyone else except them and their weak policies, weak campaigns, weak candidates, and shattered moral compass.
You can prefer the slow unnoticeable slip into fascism the democrats were offering instead of the highway to hell version republicans are unrolling, but please just be honest about it.
Biden did nothing to improve American’s every day lives. The cost of living keeps going up and all the democrats do is say, “hey, the parliamentarian that you have never heard of says we can’t do $15 minimum wage, but we can give ourselves raises and send billions to Ukraine for a proxy war and even more billions to Israel for a genocide. oh things are getting too expensive out there? slow down on the avocado toast. get a job as a coder. see our lives are fine, why are you all complaining.”
We were going to end up in the same place whether democrats or republicans won. It’s just more pleasing to you draped in blue instead of red. I thought maybe TDS democrats would finally start fighting for Palestine once Trump came into office, but they instead turned their derangement on the people who don’t want American to fund and safeguard a genocide. Crazy times we are witnessing.
Why are you hung up on the idea of teaching democrats a lesson? Democrats are not owed votes. They have to earn them.
“Your genocide is an acceptable price to teach those damn Dems a lesson!”
Yeah, I wonder why I’m hung up on that. Fucking fascist.
We were going to end up in the same place whether democrats or republicans won.
Privileged bothsides bullshit. Fuck’s sake.
I thought maybe TDS democrats
Mask-off, I see.
You see nothing because you live in an echo chanber. You can’t see both sides are playing you because you don’t want to believe it. You need a bad guy and a good guy to come save you.
Newsflash: Democrats aren’t saving anything except their own asses.
Biden’s genocide was acceptable to you. Harris’s contiuation of the genocide would have been acceptable to you because it would mean Trump is not in office.
You accept Trump’s genocide as well as long as you think you have some moral high ground over people who did not vote for Holocaust Harris. Uou tell yourself, “Yeah, it’s somebody else’s fault. Not mine for voting for the WORST CANDIDATE IN US PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY. It has to be the people who wanted this to end before it even began. How are my coconut vibez?”
The masks are indeed coming off of bluemaga democrats. That is for certain. These people just as blinded in their rage towards Donald Trump as maga rages against marxists.
The moral highground you believe you occupy is flooded with the souls of Gaza that Biden and Harris allowed to be exterminated and somehow you are blaming Trump for it. It’s an amazing braintrick you perform there.
My advice is next time don’t throw your vote away.
What do you mean don’t blame the brown people for White America’s problems/identity crisis?
Fuckin what?
If you think white people have problems because of brown people, you’re a stupid fuck. White people collect all the money that makes white people poor.
“It’s pretty cool that MAGA Elon has so much money and my life sucks.”
Well many folks stayed home, and there’s no number for that (by intention…staying home is staying home) so it would be hard to quantify.
But apathy in the face of a trump second term is worth discussing, given what was common knowledge about him by then
Yo can do some demographic analysis on it and that points to: white suburban men didn’t shou up to vote.
That’s true but you can’t attribute exactly why, which was my point.
You can make some correlations about identifying key issues to a given group, but you can’t guarantee their absence wasn’t just due to either not being able to vote due to work or some other legitimate limitation on their ability, or just being a shitty lazy citizen, or protest absence
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I’m doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It’s not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he’s highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren’t a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn’t just happen outta nowhere.
I acknowledge that the Dems MUST change. That’s super true.
But based on real historical information about trump, plus his clear intentions for this term, I would have elected an incontinent Chihuahua over trump. At least the Chihuahua would have just shit on the floor of the oval office rather than trashing minority/immigrant rights, climate/science progress, and health research and vaccine implementation all in the first week.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
The inescapable conclusion is that, despite their rhetoric, the Democratic Party did not actually see Trump as a risk to the status quo – at least not the status quo they actually care about (their donors’ plutocratic gravy train), as opposed to the status quo they claim to care about (egalitarianism/civil rights).
In other words, “the Dems MUST change” is a huge understatement. It also has zero chance of happening – other than doubling down on the “we must court the mythological Enlightened Centrist and move right” change for the worse – under the current party leadership.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses
Dems have ALWAYS been held to a higher standard. They have to be flawless, while Republicans literally get to be lawless.
It’s absurd and is a damning condemnation of the intelligence of the average American. If Dems don’t do exactly as we want with halos over their heads, we just throw our hands up in the air and go with our direct abusers instead. It’s pathetic. It’s so childish.
Completely agree.
It’s like the al franken thing. What he did in that joking photo was 100% wrong. But was it requiring he be expelled? Further, an active, effective blue legislator was lost for something conservatives would never have done. In some cases that’s a damn good thing.
So, on the one hand, punishment and criticism was required, but the standard is so sky high that dems just lose to republicans.
Please be clear, I’m not condoning his behavior or suggesting nothing should have happened, but I think the action shouldn’t have been running him out of town without question.
True. People keep saying there was nothing different from the Harris campaign that made her different from Biden, but when you compare the status quo, even the version of the status quo that Biden’s biggest critics were inventing, it would have still been preferable to re-electing the guy who tried to literally steal the election last time. We could have only been so lucky to have the status quo.
The status quo is going to look so desirable. Even just by the end of this year. We’ll be begging for it. Just like we were at the end of 2020. But Americans have the memory span of hamsters. So here we are.
We never needed to discuss Biden accidentally declaring the entire country female.
Or raping people.
Or being a felon.
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
You make some valid points, certainly. But what people are failing to recognize is none of that matters now.
We had one day, or one vote to stop this tidal wave of evil and we did not do it. Did the DNC fail to appear on a sports talk show, or drive a garbage truck around? Did they not mobilize a nationwide caucus to choose the best candidate from every single human alive today with just four months to go? Yeah, i guess, whatever - it doesn’t matter.
People who refused to stop trump because of Palestine helped ensure that situation would get 100x worse. And they were complete ignorant assholes about it. Dog forbid they learn anything from this.
This. At the end of the day the only responsible ones are the people and whether or not they vote for good, or standby and let evil prevail.
The responsibility for this lies squarely with the American people. Not the DNC.
Yup.
Blame parties all you want. The American people failed at maintaining their democracy. It’s our fault as an electorate. Our shit government is a reflection of our shit electorate.
I’m getting real tired of the “they didn’t earn my vote” bullshit. How about those fools actually look up data over time regarding both parties and make an educated vote? Especially in this election, which was the more blatant election we’re ever likely to see. This was, in no way, a confusing election. The better option was so unbelievably obvious the English language almost lacks words to describe it.
It certainly was that obvious if you pay attention how we do, but don’t you see how blaming the populous takes this from an actionable problem to a less actionable one. ‘Improving’ the populace requires a concerted effort and time, both of which are lacking…
Surely it would be better to blame the bullshit artists stirring the pot than the general public. That is, those who push the narrative so heavily in favour of the right regardless of the individual democrats actions. Those who intentionally undermine education and control information such that false narratives can prevail.
But it is also naive to act like the DNC was entirely without fault. There can be multiple parties at fault. They need to meet people where they are at, otherwise they won’t get anywhere.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
But what does that mean when you’re up against a party entirely comfortable with outright lying, who are willing to peddle the most extreme, absurd propaganda to a nation of dunces that actually eat it up?
Does that mean Democrats should become what we hate and just start lying and peddling the craziest propaganda possible like the Republicans?
I don’t see the Dem’s campaign as being the issue. The issues are that Americans are dumb as fuck and that we have ALWAYS held Democrats to higher standards. So even if they run a cleaner campaign and have a voting history proving they are better for the middle/lower classes, we still DEMAND more of them, or else we’re going to just go with our abusers instead.
Americans are fucking dumb. That’s not really the Dem’s fault. Especially since they support our public education system WAY more than Republicans do, who want to privatize it.
Pretty much. They didn’t offer anything their constituents wanted except for escape from DJT.
Unfortunately “We aren’t Donald Trump” wasn’t a winning strategy two of the three times they tried it.
I wonder what two terrible choices we are gonna have in 2028. Watch it be like fuckin Nancy Pelosi with an exoskeleton holding her up vs Dan Crenshaw who will have replaced his eye patch with a gun by then.
“two”
I’m not really sure what you were trying to get at with that comment. Are you implying that it wasn’t two times that Donald Trump won?
Or sorry. “Two” parties.
And, remember, it almost didn’t even work the second time. Biden was the only candidate running for the nomination poised to lose to Trump and he was forced on us, seemingly as punishment for us demanding healthcare. They were willing to throw 2020 and would have lost had the unpredictable and extraordinary circumstances of Covid-19 occured, along with Trump’s absolutely bungled response. Covid-19 was the sole event that propelled Biden to the white house. And then he was exactly as ineffective and terrible as all leftists predicted and we got Trump back because of it.
I think both Trump and Biden handled COVID fucking terribly.
Really most nations handled it really fucking badly. I can forgive initial mistakes like not knowing how potent it was or how infectious it was, but once they knew the masks were pointless why the hell did they continue to push that crap everywhere.
It’s absolutely a disgrace how the Dems handled it after an entire year of Trump trying to pretend it just didn’t exist or was just a cold and using that in their campaign. Then when it became convenient for them they began to pretend it was over.
Politicians continuing to be fuckin useless yet again.
Well, whoever it is, it’ll be them running against Trump, because he’s already hinted at running for a third term, and he doesn’t give a shit if things he does are illegal. And again, whoever it is the Dems pick, they’ll be such shitheads that they’ll lose the election against Trump again, for the third time. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever they learn their lesson in the next four years, because democrats are mentally incapable of even considering they could ever do anything wrong.
He never “hinted at running a third term”. He has actually clarified his comments about never having to vote again by saying that he meant he was gonna have everything fixed so well that it wouldn’t matter if you voted for afterwards. Obviously completely insane nonsense from a habitual nonsense machine. The left thinks he’s a compulsive liar 24/7 except for when he said that one thing. That was completely true and everyone should panic. Come on now.
He specifically clarified afterwards that he has no intent to run again or touch the 22nd amendment in any way.
compulsive liar 24/7
specifically clarified afterwards
I was saying that the left says he’s a liar 24/7 but for whatever reason chose to believe him completely when he made that comment. But then they just go right back to calling him a liar when he made clarifications afterwards.
It’s not that complex if you have a handful of functioning brain cells my guy.
I thought it was strange why you were defending Trump, till you started in about “tHe LeFt”. Now it makes perfect sense.
I question even that: Did they really? Where did the party articulate a cohesive plan (or hell, even just an enthusiastic promise) to counter the rise of oligarchy?
They promised an escape from him stylistically, but the majority of citizens who aren’t political junkies weren’t sick of it, because they weren’t exposed to it, because they don’t pay much attention to political news. What did they promise that the non-informed voter would notice in they’re day-to-day life?
They promised that their oligarchs would be nicer to us. Which, to be fair, is probably true.
You’d think that would’ve been enough…
ok
I’m surprised we haven’t sortied any B-52s to carpet bomb Palestinians yet tbh
Finally I can stop wondering how the protest voters handle aiding and completing a genocide while claiming to have any sense of morality at all.
They ignore it because they never cared, that’s IT! NOTHING ELSE. ITS ALWAYS SOMEONE ELSES FAULT BECAUSE OF THEIR NARCISSISM.
Dem cheerleaders are blue maga. Nothing the Dems do are ever part of the problem; it’s always someone else’s fault.
It wasn’t non-voters who forced the Dems and Biden to do the following:
-For his first official act, Biden fought with his own party to prevent regular people from getting an already promised $600 check; completely ignoring the fact no one expected any PPP loans to be repaid.
-Pulled a complete 180 on immigration, successfully building even more of the border wall and deporting more people than Trump.
-Refusing to even entertain the idea of stopping Israel’s genocide in Gaza, even at the known expense of voters.
-Declared the Covid-19 pandemic over by simply no longer testing for it, despite it continuing to overwhelm hospitals and kill people, all so that people could be forced back into work.
-Ripped pandemic era support away from citizens that was responsible for nearly eliminating childhood poverty and food insecurity; forcing people back into $7.25 an hour minimum wage jobs with no benefits.
-Refused to do anything about the increasing violence and state hostility towards queer people, especially in red states.
-Scolded to constituents for not giving Biden enough credit because they insisted the economy was great (but only for the wealthy.) They ignored that inflation (caused solely by corporate price gouging they refused to challenge) grew more than wages. Sure, wages began to outpace inflation, but total inflation since the start of the pandemic is still higher than wage growth in the same period.
-Doing absolutely nothing to restrict the unchecked presidential powers they worked with the GOP to expand for the last several decades, even as the threat of a second, even more overtly fascist Trump administration became more and more likely.
-Dicked around for 2 years not taking the prosecution against Trump seriously and making this entire ordeal a possibility in the first place.
This election was entirely the fault of the Democratic leadership. They failed. All blue maga does is try to deflect blame from them while they continue to screw all of us.
Prrotest votersDemocratic partyOh, you mean that thing Israel had before Trump won?
Yes, keep blaming the voters and not the democratic party and candidate who repeatedly refused to give them a reason to vote for them. Blaming the voters will definitely win us the next election.
By not voting for genocide, they cost us the election! /s
definitely win us the next election.
How quaint, you think there’s going to be a next free and fair election at this point.
What do you mean “next”?
America has never had free and fair elections.
As evidenced by the lack of a viable anti-genocide candidate.
Fuck that. No more being conciliatory, non-voters need to be ashamed of themselves. Shame has its place. Every non-voter knew about Project 2025, and then made the clear-eyed, full-chested decision to be complicit with every single consequence of a Trump victory. They need to be humbled, to feel deep shame, to be wracked with literally physically painful guilt, and to change their ways. If you’re a non-voter you can work your fucking ass off for absolution, throw 110% into volunteering and activism to undo some of the mischief and horror Trump is working on vulnerable people, or you can go straight to Hell. No mercy for collaborators or quislings.
Every non-voter knew about Project 2025
I think you’re letting conversations online distort your understanding of the actual public.
Most people were not aware Biden had dropped out. Hell, most people who didn’t vote have been chronically checked out – they decided a long long time ago that it either didn’t matter or wasn’t worth the effort. Most people have no clue what Project 2025 is. That’s something only news junkies know about.
They had every opportunity, ignorance is a choice.
that’s not really a successful attitude for activating disinterested voters
like, it’s just not a realistic approach
Disinterested voters ultimately need to pull their heads out of their asses one way or another. We’ve been Mister Nice Guy with people who refuse to question the legitimacy of their feelings, and did it produce results? Care to take a guess?
It’s time for the stick. When you tell someone they’re acting like an asshole; when you tell them they royally fucked up, scorn their idiotic motivations, and then demand that they shape up; you at least treat them like an equal, a free individual capable of being selfish and stupid. Putting them on the level of children by coaxing and cajoling and borderline tricking them into insincere imitations of empathy, while stroking their hair and plying them with praise, is debasing. And it doesn’t work.I’m not saying we need to sing them sweet nothings.
The democrats, as they stand, don’t offer much beyond maintaining the status quo. You can sing people’s praises or chastise them, but if you’re not offering any actual material improvements, then it doesn’t really matter what you say.
refused to give them a reason to vote for them
If stopping fascism isn’t enough of a reason for you to vote Dems, that’s a you problem and not a them problem.
If stopping fascism isn’t enough of a reason for you to vote Dems, that’s a you problem and not a them problem
If stopping fascism wasn’t enough of a reason for Biden and Kamala to stop supporting a genocide…
Maybe they weren’t the right candidates?
I don’t get why so many people think voters always have to adapt their values to an existing politician, rather than getting a politician who agrees with voters…
Like, how fucking evil would someone have to be to risk trump taking over America rather than not supporting a genocide?
Take Biden and Kamala’s name off it, and just how the fuck can someone say that hypothetical person would be a good president?
You still think there will be a legitimate next election. Amazing.
That still leads to the question of what’s the point of blaming voters for the democratic party’s failure.
Do you think it might be possible that more than one party can be blamed for Trump getting into power and that things aren’t so simple that you can point to the Democrats and say it’s 100% their fault and absolutely no one else’s?
For example, the people who repeatedly said not to vote for Harris? Do you think maybe they have a tiny bit of culpability? Or is this a “just because we told people not to vote for Harris doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have voted for Harris, this has nothing to do with us” sort of thing?
I want the democratic party to change so it makes more sense to put my efforts into trying to change them rather than fruitlessly smashing my head into a wall over that which cannot be changed.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what I just said. I didn’t even ask what you wanted.
It could’ve been predicted if you irresponsible fucks would vote for the disgusting status quo ONE MORE FUCKING TIME. Now look how you destroyed our flourishing democracy.
It would totally make loads of a difference to the Palestinians if the first WOMAN president allowed their extermination instead.
“Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos!”
In general, let’s gently redirect anger away from protest voters.
First, I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that the volume of protest votes would have impacted the Electoral College. Harris would have likely won Michigan, but that seems to be the extent of what would have happened if all protest votes had flipped to blue. (Please feel free to correct me with evidence if this is inaccurate.)
Second, you’re directing your frustration at the wrong group. The Democratic Party ran a campaign that was basically center right and fostered mass apathy at the polls. That’s the real issue. You can continue to direct anger at non-voters, but all this infighting does little to hold the Democratic Party accountable for running a campaign that encouraged people to literally stay home.
Can vouch for Michigan, writing was on the wall as far back as 2023 when the Gaza thing started.
Although I think it still would have been close, Detroit auto was not happy with Biden handing out free money for layoffs.
Nah, they get lumped right in with the people that stayed home. They knew they were throwing their vote away because they knew there was zero chance of their party winning the election.
The real issue is that all the protest voters and protest non voters enabled this guy, on purpose, and they know it:
Kilmeade then asked Trump: “Are you on-board with the way the [Israel Defense Force] is taking the fight to Gaza?”
“You’ve got to finish the problem,” he said.
i’m super excited to see this same strategy with no changes fail a second time XD
By then it will be the third time.
oh wait yeah
Then it sounds like you’re super excited to see an ignorant electorate make stupid decisions again.
We can blame Democrats all day, every day, or we can accept that Americans are pretty fucking dumb and awful at voting.
do you know what sarcasm is
It’s the fault of these idiots. Not the Democratic party.
fault doesn’t matter. what matters is influence. the democratic party has SO MUCH MONEY to use for influence, and they used all that influence to basically make the perfect case to voters to conclude that they might as well stay home.
their conclusion was wrong of course, but to the working class american, that’s the image that was successfully projected into their minds.
the democratic party has SO MUCH MONEY to use for influence
How much does money influence matter in an election when you’re up against a party utilizing extreme propaganda and hate/fear as their tools to convince a generally very ignorant electorate?
A lot. It has a lot of influence. I wish the Dems would do propaganda. Instead they catered to suburban conservatives who were already locked in for Trump, all while capitulating to neo-Nazi fearmongering over trans people and the border. Isn’t that just a great use of their resources?
I wish the Dems would do propaganda.
I mean there are consequences to utilizing fear based propaganda to win an election. You need look no further than the Republican party for proof. They are locked in to courting racists for votes now and that’s absolutely detrimental to our society. Two parties giving up the high road and going all in the the low road would lead us down a very dark path.
But then again, how do you run a clean campaign against a dirty campaign and win when Americans are easily influenced by propaganda?
Not the Democratic party.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
First, I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that the volume of protest votes would have impacted the Electoral College.
Doesn’t matter. They voted not knowing if they were going to be the deciding factor or not.
all this infighting does little to hold the Democratic Party accountable for running a campaign that encouraged people to literally stay home.
They ran a cleaner, less hateful campaign which focused way more on policy than the Republican’s campaign.
It’s not the campaign that’s the issue. It’s stupid Americans voting against their own best interests because they fell for propaganda and because they always hold the Democratic party to a higher standard. The brunt of the blame lies squarely on the American electorate. Our government is a reflection of our ignorant electorate.
They ran a cleaner, less hateful campaign which focused way more on policy than the Republican’s campaign.
And a much more hateful campaign than the same party’s campaign four years ago. Feel like leaving that out invalidates everything else you are trying to push.
How did they run a hateful campaign?
