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Obligatory Babylon 5 Swedish meatballs
It is a curious fact, and one to which no one knows quite how much importance to attach, that something like 85% of all known worlds in the Galaxy, be they primitive or highly advanced, have invented a drink called jynnan tonnyx, or gee-N’N-T’N-ix, or jinond-o-nicks, or any one of a thousand or more variations on the same phonetic theme. The drinks themselves are not the same, and vary between the Sivolvian ‘chinanto/mnigs’ which is ordinary water served at slightly above room temperature, and the Gagrakackan ‘tzjin-anthony-ks’ which kill cows at a hundred paces; and in fact the one common factor between all of them, beyond the fact that the names sound the same, is that they were all invented and named before the worlds concerned made contact with any other worlds. What can be made of this fact? It exists in total isolation. As far as any theory of structural linguistics is concerned it is right off the graph, and yet it persists. Old structural linguists get very angry when young structural linguists go on about it. Young structural linguists get deeply excited about it and stay up late at night convinced that they are very close to something of profound importance, and end up becoming old structural linguists before their time, getting very angry with the young ones. Structural linguistics is a bitterly divided and unhappy discipline, and a large number of its practitioners spend too many nights drowning their problems in Ouisghian Zodahs.
That reads like it’s straight out of one of the Hitchhikers books
Ironically enough other standards appeared because of the need of more torque.
Where do you think we got it from?
You’d think that they would have switched to Pozidriv.
Why? Torx is better in every way. If you are going to change, why half ass it to Phillips 2.0
You’re right - Torx is definitely a better option. I just mentioned Pozidriv because people seem to love Phillips head so much for whatever reason, so Pozidriv seems like a logical increment from there.
Backwards compatibility
Pozidriv is intentionally not backwards compatible, and one of the biggest problems it has is looking enough like Phillips that people assume it must be compatible, use a mismatched screw and driver, and strip a head.
Which is why it sucks. I go to work and I see a cross cut, I’m going to use my Phillips head of appropriate size to pull it out or put it in. Does pozidrive have any indication it’s not Phillips? I’ve honestly never seen one. I might be working on brand new stuff or 60 year old stuff.
I don’t have any pozidrive bits but I have two sets of long torx, some double sided torx for my hand driver, and a bunch of little torx bits in my bag to hand out to the kid that came to his first day of work with nothing but a #2 Phillips.
Yes, the head is visually distinctive from Phillips, with four smaller cuts in between the main ones.
Good to know if I ever see one.
I think it’s pretty likely that you’ve seen loads and never known they were different. The difference is small enough that you wouldn’t realise it was significant until you were told:
TIL
May the Philips be with you.
Its all fun and games until the Canadians show up.
Ze Germans would like a word with you.
We have to go deeper.
I’ve stripped more internal hex than all other types combined
The internal hex on sway bar end links are useless after any time in the salt. Last time I had to remove them I went straight to the angle grinder and ordered a new pair. Didn’t even attempt it.
As an American, we made a mistake in not adopting those. Torx or whatever isn’t even as good.
Torx is better than whatever this Canadian abomination is. You’d only put pressure on the corners in a realistic setting. These would get rounded so fast unless they are massive, like on some differentials or gearbox oil drains.
Never had or seen a stripped Roberson, they are robust AF. Don’t ask me the physics. (They go deep into the screw head because of the simple shape, maybe that has part of it. And they are tapered, it’s not just a square, so they manage to grip the bit like a mofo.)
I’ve snapped so many Robertson bits in my life. Screws are fine.
1 5/8" cement board screws
They used to be Robertson. They switched to Torx.
Night and day difference
Like you said, they do grip like a mofo, and with an impact driver, the bits snap.
I tried dozens of different brands of bits. Even paid top dollar for special Milwaukee ones.
I was at a point where I had to pre-drill and counter sink the screws because I was breaking too many bits.
I could probably drive a torx head one through a board
Hex already fit that niche.
Torx was just so they could make wood screws that weren’t Robertson and it bled out from there.
Torx bits are waaaay stronger than hex. Like double the surface area and tapered to work when corroded.
My 30 year old VW axles with hex bolts were a nightmare. The new ones are all Torx or 12pt.
I ended to driving an oversized Torx but into the nearly stripped hex bolts to finally remove them.
This guy mechanics
Indeed torx is so good because it attempts to maximize the surface where pressure is applied to. This is good on smaller sized bolts that are more prone to being rounded, but especially amazing when removing bolts that may have been exposed and potentially corroded
Hex was for that before.
Yeah, hex is very nice but torx is improvement over it.
I have not checked on it, but I’m like 97.25% sure wood screws jumped from Philips to torx however because of corrosion resistance. Hex is very easy to round already as is on smaller sizes, but even more so if the head is exposed to elements and corroded. Of course material matters a lot, but even stainless corrodes over time.
Torx has to be very, very bad condition for it to round, it’s more likely for the screw to snap
Sorry for drunk rambling but I really like bolts. And bearings for what it’s worth
Curious how “really like bolts. And bearings!” is working out on your Tindr profile?
Luckily I’ve never had a tinder profile. And my wife liked my nuts so we’re good
Oh okay. So just like with everything else we’ve failed to do
Why wouldn’t they? It’s an efficient design, and aside from the whole force thing they seem to be working with the same physics that we are. Why wouldn’t they invent philips head screws?
Because it’s a fucking stupid design! Fuck Phillips, long live Robertson!
They strip like a mf.
This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine - it’s designed purely for automation. That’s why it’s tapered, to allow power tools to slip out before they break. That’s good for automation in the 30s, not so good for hand tools or any modern tool with a torque limiter.
You’re much better off with hex or torx, or even the square driver, which is much more tolerant of imperfect handheld tool usage.
The only reason phillips is still used is because it’s ubiquitous, it’s very much a historical oddity. It’s okay for many tasks but unfortunately the slipping out behaviour can destroy the screws very quickly.
https://www.ifixit.com/News/9903/bit-history-the-phillips
I mean it’s conceivable they’d come up with something similar, and it would be weird to expect a props department to find different screw heads just to be lore accurate.
A good balled hex driver is such a joy to use. Somewhat align it with the screw, and you can use it at weird angle.
I prefer to only use them when I can’t get alignment. They’re far more likely to round out the head in my experience, but they have their uses.
Maybe I didn’t use them enough yet, but I bought some Wiha balled hex driver and I haven’t stripped a screw yet, and I use cheap screws.
I also had to dismantle my 3d printer hot end with a lot of weirdly placed screws and it wasn’t even an issue.
Fair enough, I’m talking about big H5 construction screws and impact drivers, so a different use case maybe. Also it turns out when ARRMA uses too much threadlock on their axle set screws you can strip them really easily, and I needed more expensive special hex drivers with tight tolerances to work with them.
If you have ever used torx once in your life you can’t say that Philip is great anymore.
Torx is cool and all but all the touted virtues such as less cam-out go out the window if you have to drive them in at wonky angles, like tight fitting spaces. If you gotta angle the driver it’s not gonna seat well at all, apt to jump and wear out your bit. And if your only T20 rolls away and falls under a deck, yuck, 10mm problems.
Phillips has a place and that place is ‘a wonky place to hold a power drill’. That said I’m a huge fan of square head because it’s a happy medium between those two
Angled screws only work halfway well with Pozidriv
or Torx, standard Phillips 
slip too.Btw, why is Torq-set
or Tri-wing 
so uncommon? They seem the best mechanically.Edit: no way to change image size in markdown?
Efitedit: why does this exist?
OvalI have used torx in weird angle with less issue than Phillips . My heart is fully sold to torx and Allen keys ❤️
Huh always thought that was a self sealing stem bolt
Wrong universe
See that whooshing over your head its the Clear Air Turbulence.
I thought it was going to say “IG-88 was a dildo.”
He certainly looks like one
Oh man, this is 100% real. Disney is such garbage…
Meh, it’s one of those things that’s going to be around forever. I would be absolutely unsurprised if crosshead screws were still a thing in 4800 ce.
You’re building a light saber.
Do you:
A. Weld everything
Or
B. Drill holes and thread the holes for a bolt
I’m sure they have some kind of crazy riveting technology. Is she installing screws because she wants to be able to easily take apart her lightsaber if needed?
I mean, supposedly some lightsabers were built in a cave. They probably used whatever was on hand, and I’m thinking screws are more common in rubbish strewn pits and rankor caves than welding machines.
Well, the option with screws makes it more repairable.
Even in a galaxy far far away everything is still made in china
Edit: at least they didn’t use Phillips screws
That’s because they were worried someone would have taken them off.
Can’t get more spacey screws than those. They basically look like galaxies
No wonder the Jedi failed.
I feel like a + shaped screw head would be as standard as a pyramid if multiple civilizations had developed screws independently. It wouldn’t be the last kind, but it would be there somewhere. Maybe even a long, long time ago.
There are at least 3 standards for the + shape already. Phillips, Pozidrive, and Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS). They do not play well together.
insert obligatory xkcd standards reference
This bugs me so much more than it should. Why do we have three different standards for + shaped screws? You know what doesn’t have this problem? Flatheads. There’s exactly one way to make a flathead screwdriver, and I won’t be looking it up to make sure I’m right
Should the slot be partial or go all the way through? If partial, is that standard for the size of the screw, or universal?
How wide should the slot be? Should that change based on the size of the screw?
How deep should the slot be?
Should the sides of the slot be perfectly straight, or angled to perfectly fit the wedge shape of the driver? If angled, what angle?
Should the bottom of the slot be perfectly flat or slightly rounded so a coin or something could be used in a pinch? If rounded, what radius?
Should the top of the screw be perfectly flat, or domed, or raised?
Should the bottom of the head be flat, angled (at which angle), smooth, rough.
Should we use metric or freedom units for the thread pitch?
Should the threads go all the way to the head?
Should the point of the screw be flat or tapered (at what angle)?
Ok, only the first half of those were about the driver used, but I’m sure there are things I missed in that!
Their isn’t one way to make a flat head screwdriver. Some a chisel and some are slots. The slotted ones are better but more expensive.
Both still slip from the screw and are a pain to manually screw (slotted less so).
Pozi is the best + type screw. It’s pretty much standard for UK construction. The only time a different type is used is sometimes Phillips for plaster board or external hex and internal torx for long or large screws.
JIS has been obsoleted and replaced in Japanese products with the ISO Phillips bit shape. It still exists on lots of products pre 2000 though.
Kawasaki is still holding on strong to JIS screws in it’s machinery.
That’s just galvanic corrosion from using cadmium plated bolts in aluminum fuel injection hardware. It’s basically free loctite.
Are you sure they’re JIS? Because JIS and ISO are interchangeable and effectively the same; the ISO adopted standard used most of JIS’s rules.
Yeah. I keep one of these around just for older Yamaha and newer Kawasaki equipment. You’ll end up drilling half of them out if you try to use #3 ISO.
I’m in the powersports/agricultural industry, so we tend to lag behind everyone else.
I think a single slotted screw head would be more universal and easy. You just cut one line into the top of the screw head and your ready to go. A Philips head would need to be cut twice and once you did, you’ve weakened the head one degree more by removing more material
I have never seen a crosshead screw cut out to the edges…
Neither have I but we were talking about how to make a basic screw without needing to forge or stamp or manufacture screws … if you ever had to make a screw yourself, you take a hack saw and cut a slot in the screw head … then a second cut crossing the first to make the (+) shape
You clearly haven’t had to screw a flathead screw.
Anyone that’s dicked around with those little bastards starts hating life after about thirty seconds. A fastener I can screw in a without having to be perfectly in line with the shaft? Yes please! I don’t care if it’s a shitty Phillips screw, sign me up. I’d even take those goofy square Canadian screws. Hell, anything is better than flathead.
I challenge you to find a screw worse to use than a flathead screw.
Obligatory ‘yo momma’.
This probably doesn’t exist but is probably worse the a flat head. What about a friction screw where the top is like rubber and to unscrew you need to rotated using a driver with another flat rubber head
So ironically I’ve used a rubber band similar to what you describe to break free and remove screws on several occasions. It’s not fool proof but worth a shot to avoid drilling and tapping.
Pics or it didn’t happen
(lol just kidding. what you’re describing is almost as bad as unscrewing a security flathead screw. look it up. invented by Satan, with help from Brian Thompson)
I agree … and if I ever had the choice … I’d go with Robertson or Torx for all my screws
But we were talking about (I thought that is what we were talking about) is what common basic screw design would be common to appear in a world where no screws existed. A slot is simple and easy to make … just take a metal saw and cut one slot and voila you can turn it with a simple flat screwdriver head … simple to make, simple to reproduce … a pain in ass? yes? a universal torture device that will make your life miserable? yes?
But if we ever end up in a situation where we have no hardware stores, no manufactured supplies, no heavy machinery, no metal stamping equipment, no heavy duty presses then cutting a simple slot across the top of a threaded rod is the easiest way to make your own screwhead and start working with using your own homemade screw driver … a pain in the ass? yes … but at least you can screw things together after the world has ended.
How tf can hyperdrive exist but screws haven’t been invented lol
I think the real issue is that prop design has fallen so far from the ILM heyday. Now it’s best described as follows:
In my experience, Phillips heads strip more often than Robertson.
Torx > Hex > Robertson > Pozidriv > Phillips > Slot.
This is not (just) the ramblings of a mad nerd, but objective fact derived from contact area between screwdriver and screw.
In practice hex does have one situational advantage over Torx, namely that they are almost always tightened with Allen keys which are more torque-y and can be used in tight spaces. For every other application Torx wins. Every other head type is strictly inferior and only exists for legacy or penny-saving reasons.
What they don’t say is that the smaller the features on the contact, the easier it is to strip them. This almost reverses the order on your post depending on the way you tighten the screw.
For hex yes, for Torx no. Your smartphone’s itty bitty screws are quite possibly T4 or similar.
Easiest to manufacture tho (probably, I’m not an expert. But if you were to make a fastener with rudimentary tools, Phillips seems like it would likely be the easiest.)
Easiest, yes. And wheels are easier than repulserlifts. If sometime said “Ya know, greasing axels sucks balls. Let’s invent something better”, they probably developed something better than the shittiest screw head in the history of sentience.
But that’s just, like, my opinion man
Absolutely the only benefit to slot headed screws is how easy they are to make, which is why they’re what a home machinist would make when creating his own fasteners, and why any aliens out there that use threaded fasteners have probably also tried and learned to hate them.
Most other shapes of driver aren’t cut, they’re stamped.
Ohhh no… As a person who regularly builds random shit for film and television, the single slotted screw is the bane of my bloody existence. Some designers fucking love em for the aesthetic but the cam outs on them are terrible. Is it technically easier to produce? Yes, is it viable to use for construction purposes comparitively - fuck no. Every time you cam out ( lose traction on the screw) you risk accidentally damaging whatever medium you are screwing into.
Locally there is an insane institutional preference for the Robertson screw (which is basically a square) because it doesn’t cam out much, drives in well and arguably resists stripping better than a Phillips… This is believed in so much that any screw not seen by the camera is a Robby (usually size 2) while anything that is perceived by the audience is a phillips or a single slot screw. Given a choice nobody wants to handle single slots and chances are good you only find them in period specific builds or when the designer is a psychopath.
The only thing slotted was good for was on old ships. When water grime built up on them they were easy to scrape out with your screwdriver and use the screw. That is THE ONLY good thing about slotted screws. If they get full of shit it’s easy to clean out. Other than that they fucking suck in every other way.
☝️ this dude screws
Slotted screws are the proof that Satan is real.
A 500+ million dollar budget and you can’t even take a proper picture.
What’s wrong with the picture?
Preventing cam-out with a Phillips screw is like learning the ways of the Force. It takes patience and skill, something the Empire’s rigid Torx would never understand.
