Trump winning supports the genocide of every LGBTQ+ person in all of North America, be it directly or indirectly. No one wants what is happening in Gaza. But, I have to say the potential genocide (in the sense of complete erasure of culture as well as open murders with little to no consequences sense) here is even higher.
I have the unfortunate circumstance of being a trans woman in GA. I already have had to completely shut off most contact with people, both work and personal.
I’ve already had rocks thrown at me in an attempt to kill me (this was years ago, even). I already feel like I have to carry a gun. If things go the way they seem, I will even have to order in groceries because it will further empower the people that hate my existence.
The foreign policy is shit, no question. However, I don’t like the possibility of being raped and murdered by some asshole that thinks he understands Co² emissions after watching some video.
I have a lot to say here, especially as a very blue collar machinist. I will refrain, though.
In conclusion: by “avoiding” the genocide in Gaza (which would have in my opinion had a much higher chance of being resolved with Democratic policies), you have also doomed people like me to maybe live in fear for the rest of our lives.
Trump doesn’t have the competence to implement a genocide. He doesn’t even have the competence to book a room at the 4 seasons.
How about we stop the blame game and stay focused on fighting for both (and to be honest many more) causes?
There was always going to be a fight, it was only a matter of how we were going to fight.
stay focused on fighting for both
We’re going to see both ends played against the middle. I fully expect to see wave after wave of (often AI generated) images and testimonials, depicting Arab men and Trans Women fighting each other tooth-and-claw, while I’m told I need to apologize for the savagery of these two groups.
There was always going to be a fight, it was only a matter of how we were going to fight.
The conflict lines are already shaping up. Palestinian Rights Activists robbed Trans people of their freedom and dignity. Trans Activists sacrificed POC on the alter of convenience. The only way forward is to abandon both causes and accept a compromised second class citizenship mediated by a bunch of straight white wealthy bureaucrats. Otherwise, we’ll get the business end of the police baton while the media reports us all as violent dissidents and human shields.
All three branches of the federal government is under MAGA control. There is no fighting back.
Maybe you can realize that comparing genocides doesn’t really help you.
“I don’t care about that genocide because it is happening thousands of miles away and doesn’t affect me even though it’s my money funding it, but I do care about this genocide that’s not yet happened but might happen to me”
If you can excuse one genocide then you can excuse them all. It doesn’t suddenly matter because it’s your life at stake.
Yes, noone has ever prioritized their own safety or sacrificed for the sake of political gains: these are psychologically impossible positions
All of these so called anti fascists sure do seem excited about a fascist being elected
None that I can see, but you keep beating that strawman.
How about both. 2 in 1 combo
Yeah where’s all the fucking dipshits that were on here before yelling nonstop about Kamala not getting their vote because of the genocide in Gaza, hmm? I guess Russia doesn’t need to employ them anymore.
They’re still here, for some reason. Maybe everyone thought the election would take a few days to call and so they paid for a few more days of disinformation?
More like canceled their ChatGPT subscription
Oh trump is going to help flatten Gaza with such a raging boner. Everyone that voted “uncommitted” has the blood on their hands they blamed others. Fucking repugnant
Uncommitted to democracy, uncommitted to secular society, uncommitted to global stability, must I go on.
Everyone that voted “uncommitted” has the blood on their hands
Once again, the peaceful protesters are responsible for the state violence inflicted upon them. Its just like when the BLM protesters cost Hillary the election. Or when the LGBTQ community and the anti-war movement handed Bush a second term.
Just stop resisting! Stop resisting! Stop resisting or you will be hurt much worse! And then you will have only yourself to blame!
You voted for trump. You’ll get what you deserve.
Nope. Try blaming the right people for a change.
I too am over all the genocide Joe dipshits on forums. Congrats you handed the country to a dictator.
I sincerely hope you get the policy on Palestine that you voted for!
Trump literally said Israel should finish the job. You’re getting both genocides and probably a few on top!
Ukrainians in Ukraine too. And immigrants in US. Interesting times.
A genocide of brown people too. And not just the ones in the U.S. illegally. Anyone who is brown and happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time either without ID or with an ID that a cop thinks is fake or stolen is going to be sent to a camp. That’s not even a “potential” thing. Trump has promised to deport millions of people. There is no way they can do that without accidentally deporting plenty of citizens and putting them in concentration camps first while they work out extradition deals.
Its always amazing to me.the lengths someone will go to to avoid blaming their party or candidate for a loss. The blame is not even directed to the millions of people who actively voted for the fascist, but to the political minority with the least impact on the result.
Lets face facts. The DNCs strategy to move to the right and court the mythical moderate Republican failed again. Their strategy to fund extremist Republican candidates in local races was another bet on the goodwill of the GOP voters and look they lost the Senate. They failed you.
They failed the country. They had a huge hand in creating the trump mess for their own assumed gain and yet, none of the average libs will acknowledge it. They took the votes of independents and leftists for granted and decided Liz Cheney and AIPAC would bring them victory and they failed again. Face it.
Hear hear.
Trump won against Harris by a margin multiple times the size of all the third party votes combined. Blaming Stein or Gaza protestors for the loss is false. Heck, this shows that Harris lost Michigan by far more than the total number of Arab-American and Muslim voters in the state. But we get blamed anyway, it’s an American tradition by this point for both parties to hate us.
Do you think Muslim Americans are the only ones who sat out over Gaza?
I indeed blame voters. It’s your damn civic duty
I don’t see why it’s exclusive though.
First and foremost, Republican voters are to blame.
Voters who didn’t make the choice of voting for the milquetoast liberal instead of the overt fascist are to blame.
People who argued for the both sides are the same rhetoric ad nauseam are to blame. I wholeheartedly agree that both sides suck, but let’s not be delusional there’s obviously one that’s worst.
The Democratic party which propped up the most extreme fascists while courting anything supposedly both undecided and to their right instead of all the leftist voters are to blame.
Even if it’s conceptually easier to handle, in such a shitty situation there’s usually a lot of blame to go around.
Big principal Skinner energy
The number of people who essentially told me that my kid’s life didn’t matter because of Gaza before this election was just disgusting.
And they’re going to stand there as queer people are marched into conversion camps and say it was your fault.
I will put money on the fact no one gets marched into queer camps enmass and forcefully in America
Odessa, Texas has bounties. Trans person uses the “wrong” bathroom, they can be sued for 10k by any private citizen. Also a misdemeanor crime.
Nex Benedict was jumped and murdered in a high school bathroom in Oklahoma, and the murder was covered up with cooperation between the Owasso PD and the state board of education.
Many states have already invalidated trans licenses. My state has legally defined me back to female. My drivers license says male. That could probably get me sent to jail.
What about trans people getting marched one by one into prisons with the wrong gender because they got reported for pissing in a public toilet?
Because it’s already the law to do that in some states. I can tell you more about what happens to trans people in prison if you don’t already know, but suffice to say it’s bad.
I mean, we’ve already had conversion therapy camps that families throw their queer or questioning kids into. Who’s to day that’s not a solution dreamed up here: Project 2025
Forgot this part: LGBTQ+ and what they are already doing now: mediamatters
Believe it or not, you being willing to gamble on a child’s life is not an especially good look for you.
One is occupied, in an open air prison, being bombed, no food, no water and no one to aid them. The other may have some of their rights taken. Don’t compare the two.
The other may have some of their rights taken.
They may also be barred from exercising certain professions and be treated as all around second class citizens.
They may also be barred from life saving medications and procedures.
They will be subject to more violence up to and including murder and it may be swept under the rug.
At least be a bit more exhaustive. And they isn’t restricted to queer people. They’re also racized folks, muslim, jewish, or simply women.
And while I agree that there aren’t many situations which remotely might compare to the literal hell on earth that is Gaza, let’s not forget that a lot of other people are in sucky situations which will get worse as a result of that election.
I feel really sad for Americans right now, especially anyone who needs/might need any procedure that could be construed as “abortion” (like the many reports of women who died because hospitals wouldn’t take on the liability of terminating a clearly unviable fetus), and those in the LGBTQIA+ communities.
I feel the worst for those groups, though all of you have my sympathies.
As you might infer, I am not an American, and I am unable to vote in US elections. I am Canadian, and while I can’t speak for all Canadians to invite you to come join us, I will say that, abortion is legal here. Every major city has a pride event every year. There’s always protests to both, as you would expect (people exercising their rights to free speech), but there’s no criminality in being LGBTQIA+ nor in getting an abortion.
Personally, anyone who wants to abandon this fight and flee to the north, I don’t blame you, and if we ever meet, you will be accepted by me and the people I know for who you are.
Be safe, take care of yourself.
Just avoid the province of Alberta at all costs. Alberta is currently making access to transgender healthcare difficult, starting with a legislation to ban minors under-16 from accessing lifesaving medical care
I can’t even enter Canada because I got a DUI 21 years ago. Thanks for the kind words though.
I hate that a single DUI can disqualify someone from entering Canada. I understand why the rule is there, and I strongly disagree with the way it is applied to DUIs.
The way I understand it is that you cannot enter Canada if you have a specific severity of criminal conviction on your record, which a DUI barely makes the cut for. The underlying rule is good, we don’t want a bunch of theives, muggers, and killers to be given a free pass into Canada, but DUI? Especially if it was once, a long time ago? C’mon.
I hope the pardon thing pans out for you, friend. Stay safe.
FYI, you can apply for a pardon in immigration court. If you’ve had a clean record since it is highly n likely to be successful.
How accepting of immigrants is Canada? Last time I looked I got really discouraged, because it doesn’t seem like they’ll let someone like me* actually immigrate.
- (I’m not a doctor or engineer, or rich or anything. I’ve just worked in customer service my whole life).
It’s a point system, and yeah without an advanced degree it’s not easy. You can see here how you would score: https://www.canadavisa.com/comprehensive-ranking-score-calculator.html
What I was talking about with the person above was simply for entry, like as a tourist or via NAFTA business entry.
Yeah, looks like I have less than 300 of the maximum 1200 points. So that’s probably not going to happen unless Canada starts opening up to refugees from the US.
Thank you, I will look into that.
It’s not easy, but if you’re good at paperwork and don’t mind taking the time it’s absolutely doable. Here’s some more details on how to go about the Criminal Rehabilitation process:
https://www.zuanichlaw.com/how-do-i-apply-for-criminal-rehabilitation-to-enter-canada
I feel for your very unfortunate situation, but maybe you should’ve demanded more from your party, instead of putting the blame on people who draw the line at genocide. If the choice is between the number of genocides, maybe we should take a step back and reflect a little because this doesn’t stop anywhere. Next time there will be two, three…
Republicans can go as fascist as they want, but if the Democrats are drugged in this race to the right, they will lose. They endorsed the wall, they did nothing about the immigrants and they 100% backed a genocide no questions asked, ever, what difference is an immigrant or Arab supposed to see from this?
No matter how much you accuse the people who didn’t vote, the truth of the matter is that nothing will change if you don’t demand from your party to stand for some values. For now, they follow Trump moving to the right.
I wasn’t the first to ask the question, but I haven’t heard an answer: If the genocide of Palestine is an acceptable price to pay to get a Democrat elected, then why wouldn’t trans genocide also be an acceptable price because of the threat to cis women? The utilitarian ethical calculation still works just fine.
You could ask that question, but the answer doesnt matter politically. Women, cis and trans, are on the same side in that if the genocide of the latter is plausible, the former is already pretty hard done by. A worsening of one position necessarily accompanies the other. Gaza does not work like this. Republicans are obviously the worse choice there too. You can argue about red lines and such, but thats not how realpolitik works. We get two options, nothing more or less, zero alternatives. The consensus necessary to change this is not possible in the current political climate. Denying support to the lesser evil on the basis of said evil when their opponent will do that same evil but more is not logical.
Tangentially relatee, there are those who sacrifice trans women for the sake of cis women. We call them terfs, and they’ve largely backed rightwing parties
I think you are asking the wrong person, I’m the one saying the Palestinian genocide crosses the line. Although I don’t 100% understand the logic behind this. What’s the threat to cis women?
Although I’m suspecting the answer someone would give you is that it’s because the trans genocide will happen to “us the US citizens” not some Arabs at the other side of the world we don’t really care that much about.
I don’t understand why only one group of people can be blamed.
Trump voters, non voters, the democratic party, etc all have varying amounts of blood on their hands. Be it the blood of Gazaouites, queer folks, immigrants, or simply women.
Because the democrats didn’t stand by any values that supposedly differentiated them from the republicans like I explained, but you don’t seem to really care. You can put it on non-voters or third party voters all you want, the truth is that Netanyahu got anything he ever wanted and asked for by the US under Biden and Harris and not acknowledging this is part of the problem. Immigrants got the same treatment under them as well, which I also mention and you don’t really care.
That’s the issue with not having any red line, you will always play by the rules of the far right. And that will make you indistinguishable from them which will alienate the people who want change. They don’t see an alternative to a very very dark situation. In good faith, you would very much understand why endorsing the wall, genocide Gaza and standing proudly by it, supporting Israel unwaveringly, not promoting any substantial progressive economic or ecological policies and in general why having an extreme neoliberal agenda would not compel people to vote for you.
It’s not on the disappointed voters that you people can’t understand what having a red line means. Consequentialism simply does not hold up when the difference are so miniscule and the evil is so big.
I’m really tired of going over this again and again, if you could feel a fraction of the pain the democrats and their oligarchs brought by committing the worst crime against humanity of the 21st century and how the millions of pleas for embargo went ignored this past year and a month, you wouldn’t be asking this.
I think there’s a slight misunderstanding. And a good part of it is on me.
First and foremost: democrats sucks. They suck so hard it’s honestly mind boggling that the republicans manage to beat them to the punch.
My point is that in that instance of first past the post election they’re the slightly less worst choice on a lot of issues, including Palestine (and yeah that previous slightly is doing a lot pf legwork). This is why one should vote for them. This is also why they need to be shamed and harassed into better stances.
I know it’s a heart wrenching choice. I should have worded my previous comment differently in order to establish that non voters where on the very bottom rung of the blame ladder.
But the US is a reprensentative Republic with a fucked up version of first past the post winner takes all voting (which is already fucked up in its own right). There are absolutely no good choices in that election. Only slightly less bad ones and whatever one can get away with while still retaining a modicum of sleep.
There should be riots about the Democrats, riots about the republicans, riots about how fragile the entire American political system is, riots about the election system where your vote only matters in a few select states, and some more riots for an unending list of reasons.
I do care, even if I’m not a US citizen and live in one of the regions where I’m the most sheltered against American tomfoolery (western Europe).
I just think that voting democrats in this election was the least uneffective way to do harm reduction.
I’m not disagreeing on the facts. The democrats truly are the lesser evil and they truly are very evil. They did awful and Trump will do worse. There should be protests and everything.
All that is good. I don’t know about you, you seem more open minded than the average user here, but most democrat supporters cannot understand the idea that someone can decide whether to vote and what to vote for with a different logic/philosophy - not with different facts.
Most of the time we judge things with a consequentialist mindset, it’s the default for most people. It goes like this: what action out of all the possibilities produces the best results, positive or negative, it doesn’t matter as long as one is above the other? I choose that. That’s very standard but it has problems and there are a lot of philosophers who have criticised consequentialism/utilitarianism. One criticism is what time in the future are you assessing the consequences? It can be a year, it can be ten years. If Harris had won, would the LGBTQ rights be protected more? Yes, but would the democrats become more unhinged in Gaza, as they basically got away with a genocide? Also yes. Would that further move them to the right(because that’s what the oligarchs who fund them want and since they met no resistance), adopting extreme far right policies, like endorsing the wall? So would they in the long term turn out worse and worse? Yes. Someone can argue therefore, that a crushing defeat can maybe help them move to the left even a little bit finally, which in the long term can be more beneficial.
Another criticism is that for a lot of people like I said there is a red line. That’s following the deontological framework, where basically the means justify the end, the opposite of consequentialism where the end justifies the means. I’m not saying one framework is better than the other, I believe both have their merits and can be applied in different contexts. In this particular example where the democrats have done so absolutely horrific on all fronts but especially on Palestine, voting for them cannot be justified. They have crossed too many lines to be justified by the end. That end being miniscule differences, basically non existent on anything other than a handful of social issues.
It’s ok if you disagree, I’m not going to tell you what to believe, the issue is not recognising the different perspective, which is just not going to lead you anywhere. I’m going to keep explaining this and you(or anyone in your place) will keep repeating the same consequentialist argument. It will not get you anywhere cause it’s not a matter of misunderstanding or not realising the consequences, it’s a matter of framework and a matter of ideology at the end of the day.
Our party? Democrats are no more my party than Republicans are. They are objectively the better option for someone like me given the alternative, but in no way do they represent me. They are just another element of the capitalist corporate hegemony, and I’m just a consumer to them.
I don’t know why Jordy is no posing the war on Gaza. When both panels should show the yes posing.
