I can’t really remember of all time, but recently I started reading Dune: Messiah, and I had to stop reading it was so bad. I might be in the minority but the tonal shifts, changes in character attitudes, and jumping right into these assassination plots, all of it just came out weird and misplaced. Definitely did not slap with even 1/4th the power of Dune.
Wait until you get to chapterhouse!
Herbert didn’t want to continue Dune and was pressured to write a follow up. It was an era when most science fiction was still published in periodicals. The first half of Messiah are the results that were then compiled into the start. It is like a really shitty draft. Everyone experiences the same thing. I put it down for quite a while too. If you can make it to the second half, it will become one you can’t put down, like the first. It does setup well for what is to come. After I got back into Messiah, I read all the way to the end of the entire series, even the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson stuff. Those last two are not like Frank’s writings, but are their own thing and still more readable than the first half of Messiah. IMO the first half of Messiah is a great example of what happens when Art takes a back seat to an anxious banking type mentality. Bankers make terrible artists and advisors.
GEoD is IMO the best book in the series as it eviscerates many cultural norms and deep assumptions like fascist altruism, eternal boredom, the coexistence of misogyny and feminism, manipulation that is both brutal and kind, and if an alien can be human. It even infers the question of potential delusional prescience in my opinion. It will make you think about the motivation of leaders and what you may endure because of their vision of a future.
Hell yeah this is great to hear, thank you. I’ll have to open it back up and try again. Then its time to read the Foundation.
Don’t read the prequels by Brin and Bear, they are not only awful but also steer the lore into really dumb place which i’m pretty sure was not intended by Asimov. Though to be honest the two prequels by Asimov are also much worse than the main series.
The two prequels to foundation are awesome, don’t miss them.
I mean, none of that is true, and Herbert stated he had parts of Messiah and Children written before Dune was even finished.
In the forward to Heretics of Dune: “Parts of Dune Messiah and Children of Dune were written before Dune was completed. They fleshed out more in the writing, but the essential story remained intact.”
A sequel to Dune (1965), it was originally serialized in Galaxy magazine in 1969, and then published by Putnam the same year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dune_Messiah
I forget where the rushed admission and poor quality was blamed on the periodical and premature release, but am certain that is somewhere out there.
Parts of theserialized story were fleshed out and became Dune.
I read the first four dune books this year and I think they all suffer from the same problem, that is they have interesting characters, original lore, great world building, but nothing interesting happens until the very ending of the book. They all felt like a slog to get through to me.
I am not sure about ‘ever’ (I am old and have been reading for over 4 decades now), but a book I hate-read recently was Foucault’s pendulum by Umberto Eco. It is meant to be a satire on conspiracy theories and as such it is still a relevant book after 35 years or so. However, the point of satire is to get to the point eventually, preferably within 500 pages. It was pompously written and sometimes felt like a showcase of ‘look how much I know!’.
Probably Don Quixote. It started off really well, but it devolved towards the end into this long-unending self-referential rant full of name-drops and exposition, and I could barely follow any of it and pushing through that was a huge chore.
I later learned I had read a bad translation, and that there is one good translation out there I should try, but the whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth and I don’t want to go anywhere near that book again.
I don’t even remember the title, but it was written by Clive Cussler.
It was the dullest, most stereotypical adventure book with the bog standard protagonist and plot, with no interesting twist or unexpected event at all.
An introduction to organic chemistry
I feel you. Sorry you had to go through that experience.
I haven’t read a whole lot, but so far: Madame Bovary. We had to read it in high school, because it was culturally significant and because it caused a large amount of controversy when it came out due to its subject matter. When I was reading it though, it felt like I was reading a literary version of every TV soap opera ever. It was a slog to get through and I was bored and annoyed throughout.
Catcher in the Rye. I try it again every couple of years just to see if I can relate to it, and nope - it’s still just as stupid as the first time I read it.
Is it just the (lead) character or do you think the book itself is also shit?
Everything about the book is just dull and frustrating.
I felt the same way (spoilers for whoever hasn’t read it). The protagonist just kept encountering significant people where it seems like there’s going to be a struggle to overcome, leading to character development and newfound maturity, but no. He just moves on to another scene instead and they’re not seen again. It was just annoying.
The teacher that feels he’s not living up to his potential? The private school friends that he hangs out with but often finds frustrating? The childhood friend who he shares unexplored romantic tension with? The nuns whose meals he pays for despite having dwindling funds? The prostitute he just wants to have a conversation with? Her pimp, who attacks him? The potentially rapist family friend? For pretty much all of them a relevant conflict is initiated just for him to leave it unresolved, probably after labeling them a phony.
The only exception is his sister, who he sees like two or three times. And then the final conflict at the end is like: “Hey sorry for taking your birthday money so I could keep wandering around these past couple of days instead of talking to our rich parents.” “That’s ok, I forgive you. You’re my brother and I love you. But I worry about you sometimes.” “Yeah anyway, I’m bitter about the world so I kinda want to disappear into the wilderness.” “Please don’t do that.” “Ok I won’t.”
Tom Sawyer. I don’t think i’d hate it as much if I read it today, but having to read it in middle school was a bitch
Hmm, maybe that’s why my English teacher assigned Huck Finn instead (which I remember liking).
‘How to write with style’
me, clueless thinking its going to be a good resource to help with my fiction writing
Author in the first 50 pages;
So heres why the USSR was evil
bro who asked
Ready Player One
The cringe is massive with that one.
The entire thing is the author wanking himself silly over his knowledge of pop culture references from his childhood. Some of it reads like it was written by a 14 year old who isn’t all that into books.
The bit about the gaming suit that wanks the user off but also means you’re exercising so you get fit from wearing it was honestly one of the cringiest things I’ve ever read. If I thought the author was capable of the level of self reflection required, I’d have thought writing that part of the book was him acknowledging that the book is literally a work of literary masturbation.
It should have received the same response as The Room; a bad book only made into a cult classic by the people laughing at it.
I enjoyed Ready Player One at the time even though some of it was just ridiculous. Re-enacting Ferris Buellers Day Off for example.
Armada, Cline’s next book was awful. So many references on every page, I stopped reading. I remember a line that was something like, “my mum wouldn’t let me past, like Gandelf in the mines of Moria.” Sheesh! Let it go!
I fully read Ready Player Two but the guy has no story telling abilities. Every time the main character encounters a problem, e.g. I need a level 49 sword to get past this problem, but there’s no way to get one, it was always solved with the same solution, “oh, I own the game and all Admins have level 1000 swords because we do!”
I think I reached my limit when he managed to shove in a Shaun of the Dead reference just because he mentioned a cricket bat!
War and Peace. Heard so many good things about it. Despite everything, went in not having super high expectations.
The whole book turned out like a reality tv show. All the characters had some petty drama that they blew out of proportion. Hundreds of pages where nothing really happens, people just complain or bad mouth other characters.
I had to stop half way through.
I could only make a few pages in to the first chapter, it was hard to read, very, very detailed, which should be a good thing but I found myself losing track of where we even were or what the scene was about for all the detail. Once they started describing the buttons on the coat of one of the characters and how it had been the fashion some years prior at some point in the 19th century to wear them that way… I gave up. I’d like to try again some time but I can’t see myself experiencing it differently. Curious about the 7 years in the making Soviet film adaptation, but its also 7 hours long.
I really liked the series with Paul Dano
That looks really well done. And a lot of stuff would be condensed by having viduals.
Doesn’t look like my preferred style… Maybe that’s why I couldn’t get into the book either 😅
I tried reading the book but it was too much for me, so the series was easier to follow. I also tried listening to an audio book of tale of two cities but couldn’t get past the narrator constantly changing voices and accents for characters. I prefer when they just read
True, he straight up admits many times in the books that he would lie about his wealth so that other people would work with him. I assume that came out during his fraud case in NY.
He had a few deals that worked out - all starting with dad’s money. He managed to squander 4 out of 5 of everything he tried. Casinos in Atlantic City, Trump University, Trump Steaks, Trump Ice, Wollman Rink, etc. It’s a long list. But the 1 or 2 that worked is why he has any money at all. If I remember correctly, it’s mostly the golf courses and an option he bought in the 70s for an old railroad yard in lower west side Manhatten I think. He really fucked someone over on that one. He bragged about how much he screwed them for pages and pages. Like it brought him more joy to fuck someone over than it did to have a success. He’s a complete psychopath.
The Casual Vacancy
I forced myself to finish it at the time, but I hated every single moment. They were all bad people and I had zero sympathy for any of the kids or adults, except for the one girl who died at the end. Obligatory Rowling can jump off a cliff too.
It’s been quite a while since I’ve read it, so this may not be a fair assessment. But, I fucking hated The Catcher in the Rye. I wasn’t even required to read it for school or anything, I just did. Perhaps I just found Holden to be insufferable. I think that was the point, but it did not make it a particularly enjoyable or insightful read at all, save for the overwhelming supertext of DO NOT BE LIKE THIS GUY. The part where he hires a prostitute and just cries in front of her really stuck in my mind. That was when it really sunk in for me that someone read this book and decided that Holden’s views were so accurate that he had to go shoot John Lennon with a gun for being phony. Almost unbelievable.
I’m curious at what age you read it. Because I first read it at 15 and thought it was the best book ever. I would even recommend it to people for years.
Then I read it again in my late 20s and had the same reaction you did. I thought he just came off as a whiny little shit. I still feel embarrassed that I recommended that book to people for over 10 years.
I remember telling my wife this after I reread it (she was someone I recommended it to) and she was like, “yeah, I didn’t want to say anything at the time, but I hated it.”
It was the end of 9th grade, so I was 15 or 16. I read it immediately after To Kill a Mockingbird, which did not make it look good in comparison 😂
Well 15 year old you had much better taste than 15 year old me
It’s gotten worse over the years, don’t worry ;)
My top recommended movie right now is Freddy Got Fingered
When I was 13 I thought “You go Holden! Tell off all those phonies!” At 18 I thought “This whiny asshole won’t stfu.” Then as an adult I realized “Oh, poor kid was dealing with a lot of unaddressed trauma.”
Then as an adult I realized “Oh, poor kid was dealing with a lot of unaddressed trauma.”
I hadn’t thought of that angel before. That’s actually a really good way to look it.
the Piers Anthony novelization of the movie Total Recall. it’s very bad!
I haven’t read that, but his original novel Firefly is the only book I ever threw away instead of adding it to my collection shelves or trading it back to the used book store. It’s horrifically gross. One of the main characters is shown in a flashback enthusiastically participating in her rape as a five year old. Anthony is a problematic writer already, but this was way worse than I could have guessed.
I read all the Xanth novels as a teenager and it probably made my brain mushy. More mushy.
My brain is just very mushy. The first few books were okay…ish, but they just got worse. And not just in a sexist way, but also a poorly written way.
Read the first book as a kid, thought it was pretty good, but was put off by all the sex stuff. Started reading the second book when I saw it in a library when I was about 15, and couldn’t get through the first chapter because of how sexist it was.
Yeah, they were fine for my low standards as a young teenager, but I reread a couple and they aren’t great. Heck, book one has the MC on making an amicus brief on the wrong side of a rape trial.
Yeah, its a book series I’ll leave in the past where it belongs!
