In our electoral system, a vote for a third-party is a waste, and any resources dumped into them is a bigger waste.
A socialist is going to prefer Harris over Trump, but by voting a third party instead of Democrat they’re effectively supporting Trump. When the election comes down to the wire, they’ll be the ones responsible for a second Trump term.
This has already happened. People voting for the Green party over Al Gore are the reason we got 8 years of Bush.
I don’t mind the odd asshole who refuses to play ball, so far up their own ass they think they’re so special and that the spoiler effect doesn’t apply to their vote.
If that is, they’re silent about it.
The second they start advocating for others to join them in their stupidity, they go from a harmless idiot to an active threat to democracy, exactly as bad as the MAGAt they likely are.
My vote isn’t a waste. It is counted like any other.
My vote for psl isn’t support for trump. It doesn’t count towards trumps total. Would you say the people unwilling to vote democrat are more responsible for the events of a trump term than the people who didn’t vote at all? Than the democrat party for running a bad campaign? Than the administrative regime that puts its plans into action?
You are mistaken about bush v gore. The Supreme Court installed bush and the Florida recount wouldn’t have changed the result because it wasn’t the whole state recount needed to actually flip the electoral college. Gore won Florida but the recount wasn’t in enough precincts to show that. I have no love for the greens, but they’re not why we got bush.
By voting for a third party you’re worse than someone who doesn’t vote, because you use resources that could be directed to literally anything else and be more effective. Taking all that third party campaign to a casino money and betting it all on a double-zero is more responsible use of the money than spending it on a campaign that will serve no purpose but wasting resources and pulling voters from a candidate that may actually win.
The only excuses to support a third party candidate are being an idiot or a bad actor intentionally trying to spoil the vote. Which one are you?
They have a literal zero percent chance of winning. Hell, most aren’t even on the ballots. Therefore any effort or resources used on their campaign is waste. A vote for them is a waste because it’s impossible for them to win, and that vote could be used to support the better of the 2 major party candidates.
The most famous Democratic Socialist who does the most for the movement and achieves the most for the country is Bernie Sanders.
Note that he runs on the Democratic ticket in order to stay relevant even though he and the party aren’t always in alignment. And when he didn’t get nominated in 2020 he threw his support behind Biden even though he could have easily run third-party. He knew that running third-party would have guaranteed a Trump victory.
Ralph Nader ran for the Green party and spoiled the vote when Al Gore - the most famous environmentalist in Washington -was running and handed the election to Bush.
The GOP doesn’t actually want Trump, but they know 100% that he’d run third party without the nomination and kill the GOP, which is why they back him.
The spoiler effect is real and, until we have a better system, running or voting third-party is political malfeasance.
You’re mistaken about bush v gore. The Supreme Court gave us bush because gore didn’t want to do a whole state recount (which is what would have been necessary to show that Florida went for him, which it did. the handful of counties they settled on wasn’t enough to change the results by themselves).
Why are you talking about sanders? He’s not running and if he were I wouldn’t vote for him.
Bush defeated Gore in Florida in the final count by 537 votes.
Nader received over 97,000 votes. Had he not been in the race, his supporters would have overwhelmingly preferred Gore to Bush. Yeah, some of them would have chosen not to vote. But even if 99%of them had stayed home, that remaining 1% would have been enough to win Gore the state in a manner that would have kept it from ever going to the Supreme Court.
The Bush administration was a horror show for the US and the world. The economic, diplomatic, environmental, and human cost of it is unimaginable, and people like you are why it happened.
Maybe you can’t speak for what socialists prefer. It’s really odd to say it’s third party voters’ fault your preferred candidate didn’t win rather than your candidates fault they did not attract enough voters.
If everyone left of the Overton window promise to vote for the Democrats regardless of what policies the Democrats propose, what prevents the Democrats from moving to the right?
All the other elections every year. The party pays attention to the local and state elections. It matters tremendously. And in the mean time you are improving your local government that effects your everyday life.
Voting 3rd in the presidential election is a waste if the party hasn’t spent any time building support in existing government structures of power though.
Does a third party have some special avenue around an obstructionist house and senate that we all haven’t seen so far?
No… THAT is my answer. You asked what would prevent the Dems from sliding right and that was my answer. It’s the same thing that caused the Republicans to slide right.
You have the example in the Tea party movement to see how it effectively changes the party when down ballot voting shifts.
Nobody said that a third party would win the presidency, so that’s a weird question. The answer is no, but you already knew that.
The tea party is a great example of Republicans listening to their base. Democrats should do the same. I don’t see anyone telling the far right they HAVE to vote for Republicans even if they run a liberal candidate. Democrats don’t own the votes of the Left either.
Voting for progressives down ballot is not a real way to influence the party, and I don’t believe you really think it is. Also, like I said, many progressives do that.
It’s just another line from the DNC to tell the progressives to shut up. When Dems start treating progressives like Republicans treat MAGA (worship, adoration, and fear) then you can expect that progressives will vote for Dems at the top of the ticket.
So you are knowingly throwing your vote away then. Ok. If your voice matters so little, no need to engage on a forum. Look in the mirror and ask what the point of wasting your moments literally telling everyone you don’t value your own vote.
In our electoral system, a vote for a third-party is a waste, and any resources dumped into them is a bigger waste.
A socialist is going to prefer Harris over Trump, but by voting a third party instead of Democrat they’re effectively supporting Trump. When the election comes down to the wire, they’ll be the ones responsible for a second Trump term.
This has already happened. People voting for the Green party over Al Gore are the reason we got 8 years of Bush.
I don’t mind the odd asshole who refuses to play ball, so far up their own ass they think they’re so special and that the spoiler effect doesn’t apply to their vote.
If that is, they’re silent about it.
The second they start advocating for others to join them in their stupidity, they go from a harmless idiot to an active threat to democracy, exactly as bad as the MAGAt they likely are.
My vote isn’t a waste. It is counted like any other.
My vote for psl isn’t support for trump. It doesn’t count towards trumps total. Would you say the people unwilling to vote democrat are more responsible for the events of a trump term than the people who didn’t vote at all? Than the democrat party for running a bad campaign? Than the administrative regime that puts its plans into action?
You are mistaken about bush v gore. The Supreme Court installed bush and the Florida recount wouldn’t have changed the result because it wasn’t the whole state recount needed to actually flip the electoral college. Gore won Florida but the recount wasn’t in enough precincts to show that. I have no love for the greens, but they’re not why we got bush.
By voting for a third party you’re worse than someone who doesn’t vote, because you use resources that could be directed to literally anything else and be more effective. Taking all that third party campaign to a casino money and betting it all on a double-zero is more responsible use of the money than spending it on a campaign that will serve no purpose but wasting resources and pulling voters from a candidate that may actually win.
The only excuses to support a third party candidate are being an idiot or a bad actor intentionally trying to spoil the vote. Which one are you?
What resource am I redirecting?
What isn’t effective about a third party vote?
How are third party resources a waste?
They have a literal zero percent chance of winning. Hell, most aren’t even on the ballots. Therefore any effort or resources used on their campaign is waste. A vote for them is a waste because it’s impossible for them to win, and that vote could be used to support the better of the 2 major party candidates.
I think you’d have a good point if winning was all that mattered in an American election.
Winning isn’t all that votes decide.
Poll turnout is used to decide ballot access, funding, event presence and of course for the two major parties policy triangulation.
That’s not even touching the amount of public awareness that will be built by a third party making a strong showing.
The most famous Democratic Socialist who does the most for the movement and achieves the most for the country is Bernie Sanders.
Note that he runs on the Democratic ticket in order to stay relevant even though he and the party aren’t always in alignment. And when he didn’t get nominated in 2020 he threw his support behind Biden even though he could have easily run third-party. He knew that running third-party would have guaranteed a Trump victory.
Ralph Nader ran for the Green party and spoiled the vote when Al Gore - the most famous environmentalist in Washington -was running and handed the election to Bush.
The GOP doesn’t actually want Trump, but they know 100% that he’d run third party without the nomination and kill the GOP, which is why they back him.
The spoiler effect is real and, until we have a better system, running or voting third-party is political malfeasance.
You’re mistaken about bush v gore. The Supreme Court gave us bush because gore didn’t want to do a whole state recount (which is what would have been necessary to show that Florida went for him, which it did. the handful of counties they settled on wasn’t enough to change the results by themselves).
Why are you talking about sanders? He’s not running and if he were I wouldn’t vote for him.
Bush defeated Gore in Florida in the final count by 537 votes.
Nader received over 97,000 votes. Had he not been in the race, his supporters would have overwhelmingly preferred Gore to Bush. Yeah, some of them would have chosen not to vote. But even if 99%of them had stayed home, that remaining 1% would have been enough to win Gore the state in a manner that would have kept it from ever going to the Supreme Court.
The Bush administration was a horror show for the US and the world. The economic, diplomatic, environmental, and human cost of it is unimaginable, and people like you are why it happened.
Maybe you can’t speak for what socialists prefer. It’s really odd to say it’s third party voters’ fault your preferred candidate didn’t win rather than your candidates fault they did not attract enough voters.
If everyone left of the Overton window promise to vote for the Democrats regardless of what policies the Democrats propose, what prevents the Democrats from moving to the right?
All the other elections every year. The party pays attention to the local and state elections. It matters tremendously. And in the mean time you are improving your local government that effects your everyday life.
Voting 3rd in the presidential election is a waste if the party hasn’t spent any time building support in existing government structures of power though.
Does a third party have some special avenue around an obstructionist house and senate that we all haven’t seen so far?
People can vote for the candidates they like locally even if they don’t like the top of the ticket. I didn’t say anything about down ballot elections.
And you still don’t have any answer for my question.
No… THAT is my answer. You asked what would prevent the Dems from sliding right and that was my answer. It’s the same thing that caused the Republicans to slide right.
You have the example in the Tea party movement to see how it effectively changes the party when down ballot voting shifts.
That’s how it’s done. There’s recent proof of it.
PS: You didn’t answer MY question.
Nobody said that a third party would win the presidency, so that’s a weird question. The answer is no, but you already knew that.
The tea party is a great example of Republicans listening to their base. Democrats should do the same. I don’t see anyone telling the far right they HAVE to vote for Republicans even if they run a liberal candidate. Democrats don’t own the votes of the Left either.
Voting for progressives down ballot is not a real way to influence the party, and I don’t believe you really think it is. Also, like I said, many progressives do that.
It’s just another line from the DNC to tell the progressives to shut up. When Dems start treating progressives like Republicans treat MAGA (worship, adoration, and fear) then you can expect that progressives will vote for Dems at the top of the ticket.
So you are knowingly throwing your vote away then. Ok. If your voice matters so little, no need to engage on a forum. Look in the mirror and ask what the point of wasting your moments literally telling everyone you don’t value your own vote.
Worthless…
Voting for genocide is much worse.