More dataisdepressing than dataisbeautiful
The opposite to conservative is progressive, not liberal
The opposite is Socialism, not progressivism.
Wrong
The gap sounds plausible, but I highly doubt the overall positions relative to 0.
E.g., the Federal Republic of Germany has had conservative chancellors for 51 years out of the 75 since it was founded. We did not have a constant left majority (I assume that is what they mean by liberal, since the actual sense of the term doesn’t make sense as an opposite to “conservative”).
Anyone wanna take bets that the datatrend will change once we have fully functional Gynoids?
The world lol? More like America and its vassals.
Do you have any links for surveys of other countries?
Well in dictatorships like China it doesn’t really count since you’re not allowed to have an opinion anyway
Not one of the billion people who live in China have an opinion, interesting.
Is that the reasoning for bombing civilians to smithereen across the globe if they are under something you see as a dictatorship - they doesn’t count?
As long as none of the civilians is a white cishet capitalist man, who cares?
go back to reddit liberal
I wonder why Dessalines is posting this sort of stupid charts
It’s weird that the axes of where “centre” is remain stable over time. Can you imagine comparing “left vs right” between the 1890s and the 1920s? Like a bunch of stuff happened in between, history happened, and that tends to redefine left, right and centre.
Great observation! This is called the Overton Window
Canada is so fucked. I understand the fatigue with Justin Trudeau and the Liberals but if PP wins it truly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
We deserve whatever comes from the next election. A person is smart. People are dumb.
There is no “fatigue” with Justin Trudeau.
People are pissed off and struggling because of the decisions that their municipal or provincial government make, and then misattribute that pain to the federal government.
Yet, they’ll vote conservative, not realizing this.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, traffic congestion, crime, homelessness, childcare, or even snow removal ARE NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
Rather than buying “fuck Trudeau” stickers and flags to put on their oversized pickup trucks, maybe voters should learn how our government is structured.
I highly doubt most of the “fuck Trudeau” sticker people have no clue what he has or hasn’t done. They just hate him because he’s on the other team.
On a side note I don’t think I’ve ever seen the sticker NOT on a giant truck.
There is no “fatigue” with Justin Trudeau.
I strongly disagree and anecdotally the sentiment plays out.
People are pissed off and struggling because of the decisions that their municipal or provincial government make, and then misattribute that pain to the federal government.
You’re also ignoring the litany of bullshit the Liberals have fumbled during their time in office as well as the multiple very public scandals around what amounts to a very publicly perceived “not giving a shit about Canadians”.
Housing affordability, healthcare, education, traffic congestion, crime, homelessness, childcare, or even snow removal ARE NOT the responsibility of the federal government.
They are everyone’s responsibility don’t try to pass the buck. The Fed’s have an obligation just as much as provincial and municipal.
As someone who leans left and has voted Liberal on multiple occasions making it out like they’re the victim is complete and utter bullshit.
Halp!!!
Those letters mean absolutely nothing to me
Canadian politics: red, Liberal party (center); blue, Conservative party (right); orange, New Democrat party (left); green, Green party (was kinda conservative, then had a meltdown around identity politics); BQ are kind of French separatists.
The colors are also meaningless as well since there was no global definition of each color means respective to political leanings. So it’s basically a meaningless picture. At least the OP graphic (while it has some pretty big problems) tells you which is left and which is right.
They’re Canadian political parties.
Sauce, for those interested - https://www.ft.com/content/29fd9b5c-2f35-41bf-9d4c-994db4e12998
In the US, Gallup data shows that after decades where the sexes were each spread roughly equally across liberal and conservative world views, women aged 18 to 30 are now 30 percentage points more liberal than their male contemporaries. That gap took just six years to open up.
So it might be worth taking it with a pinch of salt because I’m betting it’s using the very dumbed down “liberal vs conservative” 'murican political view. Maybe skew all results down 3-6 points.
So here’s the question - is the scale consistent over time? That is, do we consider the same ideas left/right wing in 202x as we did in 199x?
Let’s assume it is. We’re seeing men lean towards the center/right, and a lot of people are asking why. The trouble is, the answer isn’t one people like to hear - in our headlong pursuit of equity, we’re introducing a lot of inequality. You lift the ladies up, while you let the men climb - all based on the assumption that the women had further to climb so what you’re doing is levelling the field.
Countering this is a sympathetic voice, one offering to bring back equality or offer a different kind of equity. Casting gender equity as a zero sum game, and pushing for equality aimed at the ones not being lifted up.
I often hear the “uneducated men” argument, but that’s just an ugly echo from the past serving those it once oppressed in a bitter irony. The reality is that even educated people can fall for propaganda. Especially when voting in what they see as their own self interest.
If the scale would not be consistent, the results is actual worse. The whole political spectrum is moving towards the right. Traditional left wing parties here in Germany doing right wing stuff is getting normal.
And I don’t see any left party in the U.K. or U.S. parliaments.
Cries in UK
Hopefully, in the distant future (as t -> inf), we will all become conservatives. Not out of resistance to change, but because we did so well: We have progressed to such an optimal point that any further step (progress) would lead to something worse. Maybe the trends reflect this?
in our headlong pursuit of equity,
Where the hell do you live where there has been a headlong pursuit for equity/equality?
Difficult to assess this info without knowing how the data was created.
Also hard to believe the American average is +20 leaning lib. The country is represented by a fascist party and a centrist party, and anything more left than the centrist party is considered “far left”.
The graph is about young people, not the entire population. Young people in America are historically more progressive than older people.
Also why does liberal and conservative have to be on an absolute scale? The words liberal and conservative seem to me at least be about pushing politics in one direction or another. Because policy is always subject to change, shouldn’t the words liberal and conservative be relative to the political system they exist within?
And, I did miss that important detail.
It doesn’t have to be an absolute scale of course, but then why show 4 countries where all seem to deviate from the center? Are these country graphs even comparable?
Yeah I agree, it’s not a very good graph. I just get frustrated when people ridicule the US political system for everything. We have a lot to fix (like what’s causing women to become more liberal), but I think we need to focus on what’s actionable and reasonable to fix. We can’t become +20 more liberal overnight.
Yes, “liberal” and “conservative” are relative, not absolute terms. There’s a concept known as the Overton Window which describes exactly this shift of what is considered the “center” and what is considered a radical left/right position in any given society at any given time.
The idea that people should vote for their representatives, for example, was once considered an extremist take that could ruin civilization itself if implemented. The Overton Window shifted and nowadays even most Fascists will at least pretend in public to agree with it.
Hey can you pls give me the source? I want to look into that.
Okay, but how many are leftists?
I believe that a significant factor for this can be attributed to mental development and maturity of boys lagging behind that of girls of the same age, during formative years. And, please read on, if you assume my argument is “boys dumb, conservatives dumb. Q.E.D.”
The second factor is an education system where this offset in mental development/maturity is further confounded. Boys don’t typically do as well, because sitting idle and being a “good boy”, is more challenging. This leads to a path for boys to start working earlier, while girls get higher degrees. (I assume the trends for higher education by gender, to be similar, if not, then that can falsify this hypothesis).
What a person then observes they get from society, vs what you pay in terms of taxes, is skewed between these two groups, and highly correlated with gender.
If this hypothesis has any validity to to it, then one could argue that a way to mitigate this is by correcting the negative causes. Perhaps most the most fundamental root cause can be improved by revisiting how education is failing boys in particular.
The challenge with this is that if the conservative parties’ policies are driven by what can make more people vote conservative, then this will have a negativt spiralling effect. The worse you make it for a certain group of people that vote for you, the more that group is willing to vote for you.
I think the issue is simpler, in that the traditionally dominant group statistically reacts negatively to the levelling of the field and their loss of control and power over the other group. This and the fact that it’s statistically harder to see the oppression and feel for it when you are not affected by it(and this goes for every form of oppression).
Ok, then this would mean older women would be skewing further liberal, not younger women who don’t have any life experience to have seen anything change in these ways.
Interestingly it looks like in 3 of 4 charts men have, at worst, returned to mean. It’s the women getting more leftist. And I don’t blame them.
Liberalism isn’t the same as Left. It’s not even in the same political axis.
You can’t really read “more liberal” as being the same as “more leftist”.
Left would be something like: “I want the greatest good for the greatest number”.
Liberalism would be something like: “I want people to have the most freedom to do whatever they want”.
You might notice that these two things collide in things like the existence of the super-rich, were for a liberal that’s a good thing (they have maximum freedom) whilst for a Leftie it’s a bad thing (wealth concentration reduces the access to resources for the many hence it directly goes against the greatest good for the greatest number).
Similarly centralizing control of part or the whole of the Economy (which decreases trade freedom) to achieve greater equality is absolutelly valid within the Leftwing principles and entirely against Liberal principles.
it’s only in places like the US, were the entirety of Leftwing is about 4 congressmen, that Liberalism gets confused with Leftwing.
Yeah, I would classify them as mean
Hey look if you start taking away white male privilege they freak out when they find out people of other races, genders and creeds are better than them, who knew?
Then why are young men being disproportionately affected? Older men are not swinging like this.
Older men are generally already in a position of benefit, locked in a system where they cannot be taken down from their position of power. Reforms are coming at the beginning of the chain (entrance to university, internships and early job opportunities). Young men in families where their father/grandfather were in systems that benefited them - and also nepotism - have the understanding they will need to do very little to succeed. They have not put the effort in because they were told they would not have to compete.
Have a look at old laws for where you live in the world. Find out whether your mother or grandmother actually had the opportunity for higher education, or even whether she could get/keep a job after she had children and then form your own conclusions from there.
I’m surprised most comments here try to give any other explanation but this.
