they produce a negative-service

But they know that, which is why healthcare costs have consistently increased higher than inflation.

Healthcare is one of THE MOST demand inelastic commodities or services. People do not say “oooh that’s a lot of money - is there a worse doctor who is cheaper?”, instead they say “100% yes I will remortgage my home and sell assets to pay for the cancer treatment my child needs.” Nobody is at the free clinic by choice, they’re there because they cannot afford or borrow to pay for better care.

Capitalism is incompatible with ‘rational consumer purchasing choices’ that apply to clothes, food, TVs, etc. because when there’s death or life altering negative outcomes, the only rational decision is to pay WHATEVER the price demanded is. Healthcare has a demand wall, not a demand curve.

Indeed. They have a product. They are withholding it from us.

The costs remain unpredictable.

I wholly disagree. I predict that the costs will be unnecessarily high.

No, they make a profit if your premiums are more than your care+overhead. Preventative care is sometimes offered with no co-pay — presumably because you end up costing them less over the long haul if you keep up to date with your Dr. appointments.

It’s not a great system; but it does work very well for some customers, and failing to recognize that tends to preclude having a productive discussion.

Well, they also profit from healthy people who don’t use their insurance much.

Health insurance companies sure seem like socialized healthcare but with some rich guys that steal money out of the pot

The in-network healthcare providers don’t trust my employer’s insurer. So much so, they require full payment up front. At this point, I don’t know what in-network even means. I no longer buy it.

I disagree with the idea that all insurance is a scam. Insurance is a risk mitigation tool. I’m fine with paying a little bit of money every month so that my family is financially secure if I die unexpectedly or I can replace my home if it burns down. All in all, insurance can be a fairly good and cost effective risk mitigation tool.

The problem is that an insurance business model is incompatible with healthcare. It’s not likely that I’m going to die within the next year. It’s very likely that I’m going to need medical care within the next year. As we [Americans] have increasingly leaned on health insurance to pay for routine medical care, health insurance companies have done a great job of muddying the water and making it more and more difficult to understand how the process works, much less get good quality medical care. There’s a clear conflict of interest between making money and paying for medical care.

Insurance itself isn’t bad. But health insurance is bad. The fact that health issurance is often tied to employment is also bad. Ironically, it has a negative impact on the economy. Maybe even a significant impact although that’s hard to say for sure.

If politicians really cared about small businesses, they would pass a universal healthcare bill ASAP. I would bet my left arm we would see a huge increase in small businesses if the potential small business owners didn’t have to worry about getting healthcare from their current employers.

It’s gambling, so the house always wins, except it’s worse with insurance because you could only win by losing.

Health insurance would make sense if it was cheap. My parents used to have “major medical” plan, indemnity vs very high bills, not healthcare just literal insurance. But it was cheap.

Now I have the High Deductible with HSA plan, same thing except it comes with some free preventative care. But it’s expensive! What the fuck!

Apparently, yeah.

You probably haven’t even shot up a school or anything have you.

Yeah in the United States of Billionaires healthcare is a product to extract profit from in every way possible.

Pharma companies get public funding for research and then turn around and charge insane prices for the final product infuriatingly referring to research costs to justify their pricing.

Hospitals are bought and run by investment companies.

“Insurance” scammers corporations have their own fiefdoms that they control so there’s very little competition and their sole reason for existing is to take your money and deny coverage for absolutely anything they can possibly deny you for so they keep the most money possible.

We have The Best System In The World™ (for the ultra wealthy)

It’s way worse than gambling. When you win a jackpot there are laws that require you to get paid out.

Insurance companies can just say no and fight you in court until you die because it’s cheaper for them to pay some lawyers than for your treatment.

That’s the part that makes the US system insane.

In countries with a public health care system, the goal of the patients and the doctors is the same. Everybody’s goal is to prevent diseases and sickness, and to treat it when it isn’t prevented. The administrators just estimate how much funding is needed to achieve that goal.

In the US system, the patients are trying to prevent and treat their sicknesses and diseases. The administrators are trying to find ways to avoid paying for any treatments, and the doctors make more money if they can find a way to bill more things.

And, what’s especially insane is that healthcare really isn’t a normal market like other things. If you’re buying a truck, you can shop around, haggle with salespeople, etc. If you’re hit by a truck, you’re not going to be comparison-shopping emergency rooms.

So the boards should be reformed and have equal parts worker/union, patient, and shareholder representation.

The largest hospital in my region owns the largest health insurer in the region.

Nor the doctors themselves (well most are innocent, but there are a few who lobby with the AMA to help keep prices high so they keep getting paid)

And half the finance industry.