• Cypher@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Okay Russian shill, let’s just believe you’re a low intelligence Ukrainian and not actually getting paid.

    Citizens have a duty to defend their nation or the nation will cease to exist. If Ukraine ceases to exist then the child murdering Russians have gotten everything they want for the small cost of bombing some children’s hospitals.

    So supposing you are a Ukrainian, you’re a disgrace and a coward.

    • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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      4 months ago

      Citizens have a duty to defend their nation or the nation will cease to exist.

      No, nobody has a duty to die for politicians. If people don’t want to protect their “nation” then it probably shouldn’t exist.

      So supposing you are a Ukrainian, you’re a disgrace and a coward.

      No, you are a coward for not joining the foreign legion and fighting your battles, and instead forcing other people to do your bidding.

      • problematicPanther@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        But it seems to me that many many Ukranian citizens are actively fighting to ensure their survival and the survival of their nation, so by your own logic it should exist. If you don’t want to fight, that’s fine. Don’t fight. There should be no duty to fight, but if you love your country, and want your way of life to continue, you should fight against the invading forces who want to destroy your country and way of life.

        • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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          4 months ago

          But it seems to me that many many Ukranian citizens are actively fighting to ensure their survival and the survival of their nation

          You have outdated info. It might have been somewhat correct 2 years ago, when there were some volunteers. Now - it’s pure propaganda spread by Zelensky and parroted by the western media. Now, the only thing people do “actively” is trying to avoid being kidnapped on the streets or trying to flee the mass prison that is Ukraine, some dying in the rivers/mountains trying to do so.

          And even those who fight - they don’t fight for their survival, not even for the survival of the state (although I guess in some sense you can say that), just for some peace of land, which the state wants to control.

          If you don’t want to fight, that’s fine. Don’t fight.

          Oh really? Thank god I have a choice. Oh right, I don’t - Zelensky’s regime will happily kidnap me, my family and my friends and send everyone to die at the first opportunity they get (although with me it will be harder, because I escaped Ukraine before the war started).

          There should be no duty to fight

          Indeed, I’m glad that we can at least agree on this.
          If only you also stopped supporting those who force this “duty” on others…

          but if you love your country

          How can I love a country that wants me dead?

          and want your way of life to continue, you should fight against the invading forces who want to destroy your country and way of life.

          You are (most likely) looking at this from a perspective of a westerner, who has never been in Ukraine and/or Russia. If you live in USA, EU, or basically any other “first world country” - I can see why you would fight Russia to “keep your way of life”. Look at any metric you want (GDP, HDI, corruption, journalist freedom, amount of wooden toilets in the countryside) and you will see that both countries are the same shithole give or take. Average Joe wouldn’t even notice his government has changed.

          • FuzzChef@feddit.org
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            4 months ago

            What is it that makes you so consumed with hate that you are willing to fully align with the russian propaganda? There is nothing wrong with being critical, but if the consequence is, to just pick a side and unconditionally accept their narrative then you’ve given up any critical thinking.

            • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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              4 months ago

              What is it that makes you so consumed with hate

              Whom do I hate? People who are trying to kill me and my family and friends? Should I be okay with it?

              that you are willing to fully align with the russian propaganda?

              I do not “fully align with the Russian propaganda”, only with parts of it that are true… And if I said something that is false, I’d very much like to learn where I’m wrong, if you could just point me exactly what is it that I’ve said that is wrong?

              you’ve given up any critical thinking

              Please tell me what made you think so

          • Madison420@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Guaranteed you’ve been to Russia and if you visited Ukraine you probably called it Russia as well.

            You’re not making points you’re laying platitudes and refusing to give solutions you claim to have.

            • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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              4 months ago

              Guaranteed you’ve been to Russia and if you visited Ukraine you probably called it Russia as well.

              I haven’t “visited” Ukraine, I’ve lived there.

              refusing to give solutions you claim to have

              WDYM by that? Quote needed :) My solution is to stop kidnapping innocent people on the streets and forbidding them from leaving the country, as simple as that.

              • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Uh huh. I’m sure.

                Will that stop the war you absolute bafoon?

                No, what’s your solution to end the war. Stop cowering and give us this brilliant solution that proves that all your bullshit platitudes and pleas to morality arent just you spouting bullshit out your mouth because your thumbs up your ass.

                • Bobr@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org
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                  4 months ago

                  Will that stop the war you absolute bafoon?

                  Of course, how will it continue if Zelensky’s regime wouldn’t be able to force people to fight it for him?

                  No, what’s your solution to end the war.

                  The same as with any other war - peace talks.

                  • Madison420@lemmy.world
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                    4 months ago

                    Even the most biased sources don’t claim the fighting force is 100% forced fighters, none. That similarly doesn’t mean Russia will stop taking territory. You’re actively advocating for Russian annexation of Ukraine.

                    They have tried that and are still trying that, what makes you think that every attempt had stopped. Moreover Russia agreed not to invade Ukraine in iirc 1991, they bring that peace agreement, they agreed not to invade Ukraine after annexing crimea, they broke that. Do you just blindly trust a government who has time and time again shown itself to not be trustworthy.