Sadly, this is so common around the world, I would say that if this poll was done for every person in the world we would have maybe even a tie.
I’m talking about child marriages (which are legal and common in some US states) they are basically this, except there is less money, some of it goes to the parents, some to the child (because shared assets)
In the States where child marriage is not legalized, it’s treated as an informally arranged marriage. Basically, one guy promises his daughter to another guy in exchange for something and they wait until the girl is 18 or in some cases 17 or 16 before getting anything on paper.
You did notice the majority of “No” answers came from men?
Are you seriously trying to say that, because of this random online post on a predominantly male site (where most of the yes answers for “women” are likely men) that means that the predatory group isn’t overwhelmingly men when it comes to child marriages? Or am I just cataclysmically misunderstanding your comment about the stated gender of the responses of post in response to someone simply talking about girls getting informally married off to men?
The UNFPA & UNICEF report that 95% of adults who marry children are men, while 5% are women. Between 85% and 95% of marriages between a child and an adult involve an adult male marrying a girl. The UN claims that in the US in particular, 86% of married children are girls, a significant majority of whom are married to adult men. According to the UNFPA, globally 25-30% of women get married before age 18, while 3-5% of men get married before age 18; and while most girls who get married are married to adult men, most boys who get married are married to girls (who are also children). Additionally, 10% of women get married before age 15, while 0.3% of men get married before age 15. This is likely because 1. a majority of cultures are highly patriarchal and young girls are often “sold off” as sex objects for (usually wealthy) men and 2. females are highly likely to be able to reproduce before 15, while males are more likely to not be able to reproduce until mid-adolescence, so girls are married much younger (again, nearly always adult men) in order to have children, while boys are usually married to girls around their age because they can have children anyways.
It’s not like child marriage between boys and adult women doesn’t happen, but let’s not pretend that an overwhelming majority of adults marrying children aren’t men marrying girls. The same goes for these unofficial marriages.
Yes exactly.
if this poll was done for every person in the world we would have maybe even a tie.
“Hello person in desperate poverty, I am your landlord and I am here to offer you a discount on the exorbitant rents I charge you for existing. All you need to do is this single morally abhorrent thing. After that, you’re on easy street for the rest of your life.”
I suspect the number of people who would take this deal is well over 50%, if for no other reason than being press ganged into doing morally repugnant things by an exploitative economic system is the norm and the enormous payout is the exception.
A better way to spin this is to rephrase the question: “Blah blah 14 year old blah blah everyone consents, in exchange for $120 half of which goes to your pimp.” Then you get to the more grisly truth of what’s being asked, and the popularity falls significantly.
Where I live, it’s called arranged marriage, a form of forced marriage where parents choose who their child should live with. It’s more common than many people would imagine, especially among women, girls and other non-male genders, and 93% of married Indians had an arranged marriage (data from a 2018 survey, source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-59530706)
How this post really reads:
Let’s say I want to have sex with a 14 year-old girl, and pay her parents $10K. Blah blah blah the girl is not victimized blah blah she really benfits from this too blah blah really, I swear blah blah. The girl agrees, as do both of her parents. Should I do it? And does your opinion matter to me or are you female?
Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds? Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course… Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?! Churchill: Madam, we’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.The guy who asked this is basically asking if it’s okay for parents to prostitute out their child.
And sadly that is quite common
And does your opinion matter to me or are you female?
this is weird considering females are a considerably less respondent subsection, as well as tend to agree substantially more than males, which is certainly an odd statistical anomaly. You would think it would only be no in response, but this is also twitter, so maybe people were just shitposting?
Try reading “Delusions of Gender” by Cordelia Fine.
yeah, that’s why i’m saying that it’s weird that they’re different response groups. I can see why more men responded, but unless trolling it doesn’t really explain the variations all that much, but then again it could just be bad sample sizing, stats data collection is hard.
I dunno what the reason for this poll is. Honestly, what do opinions matter for this?
Legally, yeah, that’s something that can happen. Basically child marriage, which, with the consent of the parents, can happen.
The law is pretty clear on these things.
You might not like that, or disagree with it, and that’s fine. Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on it. The fact is, the proposed agreement in this hypothetical is a private contract which, for the most part, is fine and acceptable under common law pretty much everywhere.
I think it’s insane to allow parents to effectively force a child into this position, and that parents would ever agree to such a thing, or that anyone would want to in the first place. None of the motivations for this make sense to me. So personally, I wouldn’t agree to nor propose anything like this (I’m a guy).
But I also recognise that any such private contract between a family and a would be husband or whatever, are outside of my control. I might not understand it, I may not agree with it, but as long as it’s not breaking a law, I can’t do shit about it. If anyone is bothered by this, and you fell strongly about making sure things like this don’t happen, you will have to talk to your government and make the changes in law to forbid it.
IMO, legally, I don’t care. If someone wants to put themselves into this situation, then fine. It doesn’t really affect me. I don’t feel strongly enough about it (given that everyone is consenting), that I feel that anything should change. I also feel like the vast majority of people would not agree to something like this, neither the children, nor their parents. So in my mind, anyone who would morally be okay with this, has made their decision and must live with the consequences of their choices. I certainly won’t, so why would I care.
I’m just apathetic to people who willfully put themselves in these unusual and morally questionable scenarios.
I’ll emphasize that my apathy is heavily dependent on consent on all sides, including and especially the consent of the child in the scenario. In my mind that consent must be informed consent, which would require that the child has an understanding of the acts they are agreeing to. IMO, the number of 14 year old persons who are sufficiently informed about intercourse to be able to be informed of what they are consenting to, is going to be an incredibly small number to begin with. Only in that context am I apathetic.
In pretty much every other scenario, I’m strongly against such an agreement until all parties are sufficiently informed to provide consent.
Tl;Dr: This pedo thinks kids can consent to have sex with him.
Oh, you misunderstand.
By expressing an understanding of the legalities of it, and speaking from a neutral viewpoint, plus some deficiency in reading comprehension (you clearly didn’t read the whole post), you seem to have assumed that my statements meant I agreed with any of the laws I was discussing.
I don’t.
Let me put it simply (and I said this in my previous post, more or less): no adult person should be seeking this kind of “deal” or “relationship” with someone who is under the age of consent.
I recognise that with parental permission you can attain concent to (at the very least) marry an underage person. I don’t agree that people this young should be allowed to be married or perform sexual acts even with the consent of the parents. The law disagrees.
I don’t like it, and I don’t have to.
My post was largely a commentary on how fucked up the legal system is for allowing this.
You want change? Pass new laws.
The fact is, the proposed agreement in this hypothetical is a private contract which, for the most part, is fine and acceptable under common law pretty much everywhere.
“Pretty much everywhere”?
Dude do you even know what “common law” means? There’s basically one in Europe, the UK.
Secondly, you can’t make contracts to void laws/avoid regulations set by laws. You can’t make a private contract that someone agrees to work for you for less than the federal mandated minimum wage.
You can’t make a contract saying you’re selling someone to be a slave, as slavery is illegal in the US (unless you’re put in prison, US industry strongly relies on prison slave labour).
You can’t make a contract saying you allow someone to murder you. That person would still be trialed as a murderer.
IMO, legally, I don’t care. If someone wants to put themselves into this situation, then fine. It doesn’t really affect me.
I think it does, however indirectly. When the rich start getting more relaxed about buying people and treating them more as product than people… it will affect us all.
You could get people to do absolutely inhumane shit if you took 10 million to a very poor country and just started egging people on. People would literally kill for just hundreds of dollars. With 10 million you could make some sort of mad max murderdome type of setup. Just have “private contracts” with everyone, and it’s okay, right? No need to consider the morality in the slightest.
do you even know what “common law” means?
Yes. But apparently you don’t.
Yes, the UK uses common law. Also, so do many current or former “Commonwealth”, including, but not limited to, the USA.
Common law is why overturning Roe v. Wade made abortion bans possible. Roe v. Wade was the common law precedent that allowed for women to have the right to an abortion.
And no, contacts cannot overrule the law, whether from a law passed by the governing body, or by common law. This is why i essentially said, if you don’t like it/agree with it, change the laws.
Make it illegal. Change the law to make it illegal.
Then, regardless of the contract, it is a crime.
As for the rich and any affect this might have on me… The rich do this shit, not to dehumanize us “Poor’s”, but because they’ve already dehumanized us. I don’t think this is a cause, this is an effect.
But I’ll give you an upvote for sharing your opinion. I’ll fight anyone who tries to take your opinion away from you.
Oh you went from “pretty much everywhere” to “well, uh, many commonwealth countries”.
You sure you didn’t have to go check what it meant, and then you were shocked at how many of what we’d consider “developed countries” actually do not use common law?
In the EU, only Ireland still has common law.
All others use civil law. And I’m sure you didn’t know that. :)
IMO, legally, I don’t care. If someone wants to put themselves into this situation, then fine. It doesn’t really affect me.
Why… would it affect you. What on earth are you talking about?
You know, one guy murdering another guy over a pack of raisins doesn’t affect you, but I have no earthly idea why this should stop you from caring it happened.
For me it’s about freedom.
Freedom has limits that most don’t really talk about. To me, the limits of freedom exist where your freedom and the freedom of others intersect. If your freedom is impacting the ability for someone else to enjoy their freedoms, then it needs to be a matter settled by law.
Murdering someone kinda removes that person’s ability to exercise their freedoms.
Someone getting freaky behind closed doors, doesn’t affect anyone else’s freedoms.
Both individuals engaged in that act should be free to consent to the act, and revoke that consent at any time.
I’ll reiterate, this assumes informed consent, not implied or assumed consent. Again, reiterating: children that have no understanding of sexual acts, or what they entail, cannot provide informed consent because they do not understand what they are consenting to, or what the ramifications are of that consent.
Does that clear things up a bit?
Both individuals engaged in that act should be free to consent to the act, and revoke that consent at any time.
A 14 year old.
Again, reiterating: children that have no understanding of sexual acts, or what they entail, […]
I like how you keep putting up these disclaimers like they’re supposed to absolve you of being a weirdo, but you keep building in these little exceptions for “very mature” children.
Mystik, how much the child knows about sex does not matter. That’s not why it’s illegal.
The law makes it legal or illegal.
You miss the point.
The fact is, the law specifically allows for this shit. Holy crap people.
The judicial system is so fucked that you can get parental consent and do whatever you want with the underage person. That’s fucked.
The laws are fucked.
Now that I’ve pointed it out, and you bozos don’t know enough about the law you live under, you think I agree it should be allowed. I don’t.
It’s allowed.
I don’t agree with it.
It’s it clear yet? Fix your laws. Period.
The fact is, the proposed agreement in this hypothetical is a private contract which, for the most part, is fine and acceptable under common law pretty much everywhere.
Uh. No. That’s not correct. That’s not even remotely correct.
You can’t have a private contract for an act that is illegal. This isn’t a contract for marriage. This is a contract for sex. Moreover, it’s a contract for sex with a person that can not legally consent to sex.
WTF is wrong with you?
The legality of paying for intimate acts varies wildly from country to country and even in the USA, from state to state.
I make no judgement about what is considered legal or not in any given area.
I’m mostly thinking about the common law of marrying off young persons. In many places the lower limit on how old you must be to marry, is shocking. Marrying a 14 year old isn’t unheard of, even in developed countries. I just don’t draw a significant distinction between being married at such a young age, and being paid for intercourse at the same age. Marriage at that age may be arguably more “legal” depending on the jurisdiction, but in my mind, you’re not marrying a 14 year old for their hobbies, or personality. The only reason, again, that I can think of, where someone would propose to be married to someone so young, is if the person proposing the marriage is a similar age, or if they want to have sexual relations with someone who is that young.
So for me the line is blurred and I often conflate the point in my mind.
More to the point, statutory rape generally requires that the parents are opposed to the sexual acts. Otherwise, charges are generally not pressed against the offender. Again, this varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. To that end, if you have the written consent of the parents to engage in sexual acts with someone who is below the age where they can legally make such decisions, then it might be legal, again, depending on the jurisdiction.
This is entirely, and completely commentary from a neutral standpoint. Personally, I think anyone who would seek such an arrangement needs to see a therapist, or be locked up. Morally, I don’t agree with it, but often, the law does not conform to my sense of morality.
I’m just saying, I understand that some places allow for these kinds of contracts to exist. I’m not saying I agree with it at all, because I don’t. I can’t imagine any situation where a father, or mother, would willingly subject their child to that situation, unless they were truly and utterly desperate… But the matter of their desperation for money to survive, is an entirely different discussion.
The legality of paying for intimate acts varies wildly from country to country and even in the USA, from state to state.
It is 100% illegal in ever single state in the US to pay for sex with someone that is below not only the age of majority, but also the age of consent. The minimum age of consent in the US is 14.
More to the point, statutory rape generally requires that the parents are opposed to the sexual acts.
1000% false, in every single case. It may be more difficult to prosecute without parental involvement, but it is not required. Statutory rape is a strict liability crime; no mens rea is required. And bluntly, any prosecutor that failed to deal with an underage prostitution case would lose their job in the next election; “soft on child sex crimes” isn’t a winning platform.
You also can’t legally enter a contract of any kind at that age.
This isn’t completely true, children actually can be married at that age including to adults in some states. There’s also no such thing as statutory rape between spouses in this circumstance. The kid’s spouse also usually become their guardian, so they cannot get divorced without the adult spouse’s permission in many places.
Ok, I forgot marriage was a contract.
That’s alright, I kinda used your comment to spread awareness about child marriage in the US. I want people to know so they can vote to ban it. Overwhelmingly most voters in the US do want to ban child marriage but they don’t even realize it exists.
Hey, it’s a good cause. I’m not mad about it. Child marriage is a disgrace and people should be made aware that it still exists and who it is that is fighting for it to continue.
You should consider offing your self
Dude I think the proper nomenclature is “unalive”
Ah yes, cause the thing that makes pedophilia bad is the immediate payment, if you defer that until the victim is off age it’s all good.
It’s hebephilia not pedophilia, though the immorality doesn’t change
The gap between yes/no men and yes/no women is kinda crazy. Also, probably has a lot to do with the audience this post reached.
I’m pretty sure it’s from a bunch of conservative dudes answering that they’re women to try to make conservative beliefs look popular with women. Like an “as a black man…” moment, except it’s “as a woman…”
No… Women can be pedophiles too and you are operating on a biased belief system hoping that the data is incorrect cause you want it to be.
We don’t have that, we have the results of the poll and people are fucked up in the head even when you want them not to be.
Considering that 95% of adults who marry children are men (according to the UN)… yeah nah man. Guys pretend to be women on the internet all the time. And conservatives on Twitter pretend to be groups which they aren’t all the time. There is absolutely 0 chance a higher portion of women answered “yes” to this than men considering the facts of child marriage. It’s not just about “pedophilia” but of patriarchal societies where women are treated more or less as sex objects, things which exist for men and who’s sole purpose is to have babies.
And the fact that historically marriage is initiated by men in basically all countries is unimportant now cause…? And the 5% in your own statistics just… Doesn’t exist?
You want there to be zero chance and refuse to accept any other reality. And yet women do enter into sex work willingly across the world. Women do plenty of things to set their life up like marrying men they don’t love all the time. Your need for a better world than we live in is irrelevant.
Man what are you even talking about right now…? What exactly are you arguing against here? I don’t think we’re on the same page.
I’m saying that women would absolutely take that offer. More than you think. And that you are making up a falsehood in your own head that it must be men to make you feel better about the world even though you have no basis for it other than conspiracy and hopeful wishful thinking.
The best science we have on the matter suggests that a larger portion of men are pedophiles (expressing interest in sexual relations with children), and statistically most offending pedophiles are men. This random poll on Twitter, a site infested with pedophiles and men with disgusting views on women and women’s rights, where any random account can participate, is completely contradictory to the science on the matter. In my opinion, that’s a pretty reasonable indication of the results being skewed by bad actors. There is no actual way to ensure the integrity of the results, as literally anyone can vote and anyone can make a new account to vote (and there are a lot of Twitter bots).
Now, I could see the argument that “women on Twitter are significantly less representative of women than men on Twitter are representative of men”, but it’s hard to see that effect causing this stark of a difference.
You are being downvoted because you think your interpretation is more likely than the other person’s. The point is that anonymous polling data isn’t reliable because people lie or even totally doctor the data. So we need to use common sense and look at other, actually reliable, data to get a better sense of what is true.
You don’t want to do that. So your analysis doesn’t stand up to any scrutiny. That’s all.
It’s an anonymous social media platform with a user base that’s over 1/3rd women more than even the percentage combined up there.
If you think no women at all participated in that poll then you are picking a side that for some reason excuses an entire gender for what can only be considered bias reasons.
Yes I understand it’s untrustworthy but we aren’t saying this is some numbers in a spreadsheet poll, it was a poll on a site that even though we may disagree with it is swarming with a huge amount of real people sitting on their phone users.
So, the only way you could assume that literally no women voted in that poll because “theirs no way they would vote that way” is a cognitive bias from wanting that to be a truth when the more likely answer and the one that is shown to be reality in a world where people (men and women included) prostitute their children for a lot less than the hypothetical.
You are using an absence of a perfect source be excuse to throw away all of the results because you want to. That’s on you, not me.
Nothing gets the pedophiles riled up quite like a hypothetical
Just to point out, having a paraphilic disorder for pubescent teenagers is not pedophilia but hebephilia (i.e. having sexual interest in pubescent teenagers of either sex between 11 and 16)
Just to point out, colloquially you are wrong, and there is a colloquial use of the term pedophile. We are not discussing this in an academic setting and it also doesn’t change the content of this discussion to redefine terms to academic ones, so no need to change it. Everyone understands what’s being referenced here because it was specified as being a 14 year old in the OP.
What exactly is your purpose in making this distinction between these terms?
I don’t care
I know I’m running full on into the blades of pedophilic panic here and I’m going to be accused of being a pedophile, but being attracted to pubescent teens is not a paraphilic disorder at all and perfectly normal.
I am all for protecting minors and 100% support laws that criminalizes adults having sexual contact with them, but I think we do a disservice to people’s mental health to paint normal, healthy physical attractions as being deviant, and I don’t think it does anything to protect minors.
It’s not “normal” to be attracted to 14 year olds. It’s not “normal” to be specifically attracted to any age group. It’s honestly all a kink. Are you attracted to elderly people? No? That’s because you have a different kink. And don’t get into stupid biological bullshit of reproductive success etc, a woman in her 40s who’s given birth before is in some cases much less likely to die in childbirth than a 14 year old who hasn’t done it before, arguably. That some people have breeding kinks with their pedo kinks is on them. Like seriously stop being so sexually narcissistic, there are thousands of kinks that combines in thousands of ways. Why do you think your kink is the “normal” one? Like get over yourself.
Whether kinks are disorders or not is a separate topic. Where kinks come from - we don’t know 100%. There’s some evidence certain brain conditions can cause disorders and sexual dysfunction, so it’s possible pedophilia could be induced. Personally I am curious if oxytocin plays a role in pedophilia. You can get oxytocin (note: this is not OXYCONTIN) compounded in a nasal spray from compounding pharmacies. Just need a doctor’s prescription for it, it has been used experimentally for social anxiety. I think some pedophiles likely get extra oxytocin from children (and other groups get it from animals in some cases) which is part of what triggers their attraction even if they don’t want to harm children.
If you are attracted to someone, that doesn’t entitle you to fucking them. Even if you can convince them to say yes somehow.
Consent cannot be given if it’s not safe to give dissent. Meaning a “yes” doesn’t count if a “no” wouldn’t count either. Most kids cannot readily say “no.” They cannot consent.
It’s not “normal” to be specifically attracted to any age group.
I said nothing about age, but about development.
Why do you think your kink is the “normal” one?
I said nothing about my own personal attractions. If you’re asking, I’m not a hebephile. I would be lying if I were to claim I’ve never found one physically attractive, but my general physical sexual attraction is probably about as vanilla as it gets. My actual kinks, not so much. But that’s a completely different topic.
Just like I defend homosexuality as a normal, healthy attraction, I defend this. That doesn’t make me gay, or a hebephile.
If you are attracted to someone, that doesn’t entitle you to fucking them.
And I pretty clearly said explicitly otherwise. Literally this whole thing about consent is just completely pulled out of your ass as it has nothing to do with anything I’ve said. Hell, you’re whole rant is completely detached from the reality of anything I’ve said.
Yeah “development” what a creepy word and again, “development” has nothing to do with it. That’s why I brought up the breeding kink part - the classic argument every libertarian creep who does the “It’s hebephile not pedophile” dog whistle says this EXACT thing. Like you all are clearly watching the same porn. It’s so weird of you. Idk how I have had this exact conversation with so many of my male peers. The other points I made are entirely relevant when it comes to fucking children. Many people think rape is a turn off.
“Development” is meaningless. It doesn’t make it okay because the person looks a certain way. A “developed” body is not an “adult” body; many adult women have no breasts and no curves, and many young girls, some as young as 9!! get breasts. Is the adult woman with no breasts and no curves not “developed”?
That you associate “development” with sexual attraction is a YOU kink. It’s not an EVERYONE kink. It’s not the “natural” state for people. It’s a kink. That you’re justifying it with “well she looks fuckable and like she could have a baby to me” with no self awareness is… yikes.
Yeah “development” what a creepy word and again, “development” has nothing to do with it.
lol. It literally has everything to do with it. That’s the whole point: when children enter into and finish puberty, they become capable of reproduction, so from an evolutionary perspective, that is a normal time to start finding them attractive. Just labelling it as “creepy” is an attempt to undermine the point because it’s hard to actually address it.
Like you all are clearly watching the same porn.
I tell you I’m not into it, and what do you do? Lie, and claim I’m into it. I’ll state it again, it never ceases to amaze me how far people will go to deny reality to hold onto their irrational beliefs.
Many people think rape is a turn off.
Agreed. Which is why, as I’ve already stated, it’s 100% wrong to have sex with them.
Is the adult woman with no breasts and no curves not “developed”?
The fact that you need to ask this question just goes to show how absolutely ignorant you are of the topic, and probably shouldn’t even be discussing it at all.
That you associate “development” with sexual attraction is a YOU kink.
Holy shit, this insane. lol This debate never ceases to crack me up. You’re literally arguing that being attracted to people who have gone through puberty is a “kink.” Even if you think that the stage of development that it’s “appropriate” to become attracted to them is full adult, Tanner stage V, you still are arguing that development is important. But you are claiming this is nothing but a kink.
That you’re justifying it with “well she looks fuckable and like she could have a baby to me” with no self awareness is… yikes.
I have full self awareness of what I’m saying. It’s the people who claim that development stages has nothing to do with it and is a “kink” are the ones who lack the self-awareness to understand how little they know of what they talk about… yikes.
Reproduction has nothing to do with sexual arousal in people, unless they have a reproduction kink. It is not “normal” to hinge your arousal on reproduction. Ancient humans likely had no idea sex acts lead to babies. Their arousal was hinged on other things, kinda like most animals. Do you think stallions know theu will have a baby when they breed a mare? Probably not. Reproduction is again, a kink. Which I have informed you repeatedly. That it’s been normalized by the groups you roll in, is a you thing.
You are narcissistic about your kinks. A lot of men are, because they often keep them secret until they go onto forums for that kink where they can all engage in it together and share porn and ideas. Then they think “I’m vanilla and normal,” and project their kinks onto reality as if that’s objective. It’s not. You’re wrong.
It’s creepy because of what it implies about your general philosophy to kids.
You are into it. You are saying it’s “normal” as long as they are developed. You’ve admitted finding young teens attractive before. This is about you. Stop being a coward.
Answer me: Is the adult woman with no breasts and no curves not “developed”?
who have gone through puberty is a “kink.”
You’re moving goalposts. First, you say it’s because they are developed- which describes a body type. The you say it’s because they can reproduce - which describes their egg and ability to carry a baby - which a “developed” 13 year old likely cannot do compared to a 35 year old who is flat chested and not curvy. And above puberty includes people who cannot reproduce and are not “developed,” such as elderly women. So which is it? Which do you mean? Or are you just making shit up because you think your kinks are “normal” and you’ve never analyzed or critically thought about them?
All sexual attractions are kinks. That’s my point - there is no “normal” sexual arousal state. Calling it “normal” justifies a kink that harms others and allows for reactionary thinking. It’s the same reason rapists rape and don’t realize it - they think their rape kink is “normal.” Look at Andrew Tate and his fans.
Being attracted to minors is not “normal” as an adult. It’s just “normal” for you.
I’m going to be accused of being a pedophile
Proudly declaring yourself a guy who draws the line at fucking 10 year olds.
I am all for protecting minors and 100% support laws that criminalizes adults having sexual contact with them, but
I explicitly stated that it should be illegal to have sex with minors, yet you still accuse me of saying it’s okay to have sex with minors.
Thanks for demonstrating, so succinctly and clearly, how irrational those gripped by pedophile panic have become.
I explicitly stated that it should be illegal to have sex with minors
being attracted to pubescent teens is not a paraphilic disorder at all and perfectly normal
Being attracted to 11 year olds, particularly when you’re of Epstein Age, is decidedly not normal.
how irrational those gripped by pedophile panic have become
Guy on his second bottle of Jim Bean yelling about how he’s being persecuted for doing a perfectly normal amount of drinking, even after he said he’d never actually endorse puking on your carpet.
Being attracted to 11 year olds, particularly when you’re of Epstein Age, is decidedly not normal.
Noone said 11 year olds. I said pubescent. Notice how, to make your point, you have to lie about what was said. It makes it appear that even you realize it’s bs. Hell, especially considering you’ve swapped one lie out for another. How many different lies will you tell about what was said before you admit you might be wrong?
Guy on his second bottle of Jim Bean yelling about how he’s being persecuted for doing a perfectly normal amount of drinking, even after he said he’d never actually endorse puking on your carpet.
This literally makes no sense. Noone is talking about puking or overdrinking. We’re talking about normal, healthy physical attraction. I’ve explicitly excluded action from my claim if what is acceptable.
Just to point out, having a paraphilic disorder for pubescent teenagers is not pedophilia but hebephilia (i.e. having sexual interest in pubescent teenagers of either sex between 11 and 16)
Sure sounds like you said 11 to me!
as a graphic designer, i try to remind fellow graphic designers that apart from circumstances and conversations specifically related to your craft, colloquial use is totally acceptable and that you shouldn’t be insisting on pointing out the difference between a font and a typeface, because no one cares and it’s annoying as fuck.
not to mention everyone knows what people mean when they say “font” so there’s no point in pedantic "ackshually"s. they just make you sound like a dick.
now that’s what i think about designers being pedantic about designer terms.
idk what i can even say about your comment.
As a graphic designer you don’t deal in life or death situations.
when people talk about pedophiles they clearly mean people who act on it; no one cares what’s in your heart or brain, that’s between you and your psychiatrist. it’s not even a legal term so it doesn’t matter in “life or death” situations.
Precisely.
I know that there’s a difference between a pedophile and a hebephile. I know that the differences is that pedos are attracted to prepubescent kids and hebes are attracted to pubescent kids. There is a difference between the two.
That being said, there’s no way to say this online without sounding like someone who is attracted to kids.
Can’t even discuss serious mental disorders anymore without being dogpiled smh
People who are afflicted with these need help but people would rather just talk about how they deserve to be killed instead for something they never chose to have
Everyone loves to talk about how they would hurt others if they could and how their version is the only one that is just and fair.
It’s called Pedophilia, he’s a pedophile or in the making.
It’s actually called hebephilia when it’s about the sexual attraction to pubescent children between 11 and 16
I love this meme format
This guy also has a whole post on Substack complaining that the left is too wary of age gaps in relationships and that this is an “attack on heterosexuality” or whatever. It’s kind of funny how conservatives will decry that queer people are all groomers and yet proclaim that age gaps and adults dating teenagers is part of heterosexual culture under the same breath.
There is a loooooooooooooong fucked up history of this being sanctioned by organized religions of all types. It stems from the patriarchal ideal woman being a baby factory and is absolutely a barbaric practice. The men in these religions are conditioned to be interested in young virginal girls that they call women but treat like property.
https://phys.org/news/2020-08-reveal-patterns-sexual-abuse-religious.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352250X20301421
https://www.gotquestions.org/child-marriage.html
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/child-marriage-and-religion-in-the-united-states
Because the only thing that’s keeping them from the most depraved things humans can do is the laws. They grew up wrong. The rest of us are asking to live our authentic lives and they can’t think of anything that would stop us, upon living our authentic lives, from committing depraved acts because that’s what they would do if the laws allowed it. We ask to be allowed to have healthy relationships between consenting adults and they see a dangerous precedent that once we’re allowed to do that, then what else are we allowed to do. Its from a basic difference in where they think ethics and morality come from. I think ethics and morality come from within ourselves and that laws should be written to establish communal protections that allow people to achieve true freedom from oppression. They believe ethics and morality exist separate from humanity and laws exist to ensure intrinsically bad people (everyone) remains moral. Within that group, the repressives we’re talking about in this post are truly the most dangerous.
Look. All this is super complicated and I’m realizing I’m over simplifying entire systems of ethics it took me 35 pages single spaced to describe in college. Its valuable to have discussions about where ethics come from when discussing politics because ultimately that’s what you actually vote on and about
Edit: replied to the wrong comment. I absolutely agree with you
Very well put, thank you
That was some wild and deranged shit holy fuck. And the comments too.
Wait, how come she’s old enough to make the decision to have sex, but she’s not old enough to have access to her money?
To be fair most women i know had sex at 14 or younger. None got 10 million for it.
Having sex with your peers is are appropriate teenage behavior. Being preyed upon by pedophiles isn’t. Being taught about selling your body also isn’t. I’m not sure where you’re having problems “being fair” here.
One of these days we as a society will have to confront the fact that 14 year olds can be and often are attracted to older people. Yes, even girls.
We’re not ready for that conversation yet, but one day.
14 year olds are children, not adults, and whether they are attracted to adults isn’t the concern. The fact that you think the problem here is that society won’t allow children to act on their attraction to adults - and not that children should not fuck adults - is a massive self-report.
You have a typo in your username.
I’m dying at the modlog for this one.
reason: what the fuck
Oh, that’s beautiful. Thank you.
I think the assumptions you made is that 1, they were peers and 2, that they regret it in hindsight. Im still in the male/no category, but even with their much older and more mature brains they still think that was a consensual interaction.
Im just thinking the wider possibilities and Ideas because, let’s be honest, we’re not discussing either a possibility or policy change - its just not going to happen.
One was happily fucking her way through men double and triple her age within the first 6 months and had the only regret of an STD - why should she not have been able to take 10 mill for something she was going to do anyway?Does being paid suddenly make it not OK?
FBI, this guy right here
Never forget the one thing that the Left and the Right both agree on: women of any age do not have sexual agency.
The Left says men shouldn’t prey on them. The Right says it’s men’s God-given right to prey on them. Both agree that men are always predators and women are always prey. The idea of a woman actually wanting sex is equally deviant to both sides.
Children should not have sex with adults
The fact that you’re trying to paint being anti-statutory rape as misogynistic and heavily imply “the left believes boys who are raped by adults aren’t victims/that adult women having sex with kids isn’t rape” is… yikes. No, children (regardless of sex or gender of anyone involved) cannot consent to sex with adults and yes, children who are groomed will naturally be more likely to see their grooming as normal since it was literally intertwined with the critical period of mental development in their lives. You can make literally anything seem “normal” or “okay” to a lot of people if you can convince them it’s okay when they’re young. Your pedophilia & rape apologia is disgusting, Jesus Christ. You’re actually arguing that abuse victims/nonconsenting people having sex aren’t victims because they can’t accept that they were manipulated. That doesn’t even only affect children, but abused people in general. This isn’t even strictly a left-right thing, people from fucking every part of the political spectrum are wondering wtf is wrong with you after this. Ain’t none of the right-wingers I know advocating for the Epsteins and the Dr. Disrespects of the world, even though I’m from the god damn rural south where children marrying adults is legal and middle-school aged kids can legally bang a typical high school graduate.
I also want to add, for anyone struggling with understanding this or how sexual abuse can harm minors, please read The Body Keeps the Score. Sexual abuse has the same effects on kids as active war combat and torture. Imo it could easily be considered torture. There are automatic things your brain does that keep you alive in these situations and protect you mentally later. But it comes at a cost and your body leaves clues. No one is unaffected by sexual abuse, and all sexual interactions between minors and adults are sexual abuse.
☝️ The weird guy in question
I wonder how many women he knows.
Because a) statute of limitations and b) lawyers cost money. No, I think you are right, the simpler explanation makes more sense.
Hey there’s a word for that! It’s called “Child prostitution”!
Doesn’t sound quite as reasonable, does it? Not that it ever did.This is just prostitution with extra steps.
What extra steps ?
Taking away consent. I don’t care what the parents say, she isn’t mentally developed enough to make an informed decision, nor understand the psychological impacts.
Edit: so prostitution, adding in rape. Any parent who agreed to this should not be responsible for a child
No, he’s just paying for the 14 year old’s time, anything that happens after is between
two adultsan a adult and a child, whoconsent,share a racecar bed, are abusing extreme power dynamics!with extra steps
Money is irrelevant. Its child sexual abuse by a pedophile and idealised by other pedophiles.
In poor third world countries you find old men paying the father to let them rape his virgin underage girl or force marry her. His justification is that they are poor and that man paid them “a lot”. Only the lowest scummiest cunts of people would allow this upon their daughter and set her for life-long trauma of all types.
What a creeper, it’s almost he wants to do something similar; Yikes, is all I have to say.
Wait, doesn’t this just mean the sample size of men was more than 3/4 of the entire survey population?
If you are trying to run a binary-gender survey, wouldn’t it make more sense to have 1:1 representation?
It’s this own dude’s readers responding to him. 10/10 self own.
