Google 1970s Iran vs now. It’s an interesting contrast of how quickly societies can change; and some would argue, not towards the future but backwards.
There’s a compilation album called Pomegranates - Persian Pop, Funk, Folk And Psych Of The 60s And 70s, and goddamn but does it make me want to see a '70s Iranian detective action movie with a fucking kickass soundtrack.
The Iranian elite here were never representative of the majority of Iranians.
(Sincere) are you implying that these pictures are the elite/upper class and the counter narrative is more the norm of the time?
Edit: nvm, other comments in the feed seem to add further context.
Nobody ever posts the “Here’s a teenage boy who has been beaten bloody by the Shah’s secret police” photo from the 1970s
Neither do we get the “Meet the PhD student who graduated without a penny of debt” from the 2020s.
But the sepia photograph of a hot girl in a short dress? Literally the only evidence we have that Iran even exists.
Nobody ever posts the “Here’s a teenage boy who has been beaten bloody by the Shah’s secret police” photo from the 1970s
Probably because the contrast is what makes it eye-catching, whereas “Secret police are the same in Iran now as they were in Iran in the 1970s” presents very little contrast.
Neither do we get the “Meet the PhD student who graduated without a penny of debt” from the 2020s.
… that’s the norm in most countries that don’t bear the abbreviation “USA”.
Probably because the contrast is what makes it eye-catching
So you agree it’s more about attention seeking than drawing a cogent argument?
… that’s the norm in most countries that don’t bear the abbreviation “USA”.
…is that not the point?
No, the point is that things got much worse for women.
Second that student was a high ranking Muslim straight male. Because no one else is allowed to go to school.
So things are only ever black and white? Seems things were only great for a select few privileged people, it’s odd to make it seem otherwise. Might make someone misinformed.
So you agree it’s more about attention seeking than drawing a cogent argument?
… it’s a post in a community about sharing historical photos. Of course it’s about sharing something rather than drawing any kind of argument.
…is that not the point?
… to make a comparison that makes only America look bad? If so, their previous example with SAVAK was ill-chosen.
Of course it’s about sharing something rather than drawing any kind of argument
Seems odd OP would make the comparison they did in the title, then.
… to make a comparison that makes only America look bad
It was part of a larger comment, not the only statement. Odd that any statement about the US is suddenly only about the US after its made…
Oh ok, then let me tell you that I’ve known a refugee from Iran. Or we could talk about the fact that they murder women for demanding rights.
You seem to be defending a theocracy that stole participation in the public sphere from half its population. Rethink your life
Nowhere do I see defending a theocracy, just showing that not everything is sunshine and roses just because something can be worse.
Then you need to look again.
I looked a bunch of times, but I hadn’t already made up my mind, so I never saw it.
Let me help you.
What would happen to her outside the city without the rich portion of the country?
Or look at the literacy rates. At the time of the revolution, so past when this photo was taken, less than 40% of Iranians could read and write. And let’s not mention The Celebration of the 2,500th Anniversary of the Founding of the Persian Empire by the Western puppet ruler, spending millions and millions on a tent city for foreign dignitaries in the desert plains, while his subjects were living in abject poverty without access to education or health care. Let’s just look at the mini skirt in the photo and wonder at the enlightenment of those days and the backwardness of today, when the literacy rate has more than doubled in 40 years for example. But they have hijab, therefore the society has obviously regressed. That’s the measure for how advanced a society is, the length of the skirts of the few who are well off.
Cool. Uganda also nearly doubled their literacy rates in the same period. As did India. As did Algeria. As did Morocco.
It’s almost like the increase in literacy is a function of the spread and adoption of modern technology, and not that the theocratic shitheads are better than the monarchist shitheads. But hey, I’m sure Iran’s current budget doesn’t go towards things that do nothing to alleviate the suffering of the people.
If so, then it’s just as inaccurate and ridiculous to say that Uganda, India, Algeria and Morocco have regressed in their development. What part of that do you consider controversial? Are you unwilling/unable to have a negative attitude towards the current regime, while also acknowledging that they’ve done more to develop the country than the Pahlavis ever did? There’s no contradiction at all in that in my view, those are just the facts. Iran has raised its HDI by +40% in the last 35 years, going from 0.577 in 1990 to almost 0.8 in 2018, with the international average for countries with high HDI being 0.75. Iran went from non-existent research output during the Shah’s reign to being number 15 in the World, placing 4th in Asia after India, Japan and South Korea. All of this happened within the framework of the “theocratic shitheads”, despite the existence of socially repressive laws, and not during the Shah’s time when the laws were more relaxed and all of the West supported his regime in any way possible. He was just uninterested in channeling that support into things beneficial to the people of Iran, and suffered the consequences of that by steering the country into revolution. So just comparing a picture of a woman in a miniskirt in the seventies to the mandatory hijab of today and concluding that the country has regressed in general seems like the most uncharitable and shallow analysis possible. It’s not helpful in understanding the World at all, and leads to foolish slogans like “they hate us for our freedom”, which in turn leads to disastrous decisions like the invasion of Iraq.
I don’t know why it should be so difficult to acknowledge that there are different degrees of bad, and the record suggests that the current “shitheads” are still far superior to the former. Nothing I wrote was meant to imply that the current regime doesn’t do a lot of bad stuff, there are no governments that don’t do bad stuff. To make sense of international politics at all, I think it’s essential to be able to compare different degrees of bad and grade on a curve. Just pointing and saying it’s all bad doesn’t seem like the best of ideas to me. But to each his own.
Here’s a link based on data also from the UNDP, but from a couple years later and going back further. Except for a few years around that revolution, it looks like a pretty stable trend, which isn’t really damning or praising for the progress under either regime, imo.
If so, then it’s just as inaccurate and ridiculous to say that Uganda, India, Algeria and Morocco have regressed in their development.
Fucking what.
More people are literate now than were under the monarchist OR communist governments of Afghanistan. Is Afghanistan more ‘advanced’ now under the Taliban? Christ’s sake.
All of this happened within the framework of the “theocratic shitheads”, despite the existence of socially repressive laws, and not during the Shah’s time when the laws were more relaxed and all of the West supported his regime in any way possible.
Oh, yes, as we all know, the policies of the Shah’s government definitely didn’t develop massive improvements in Iran’s economy, making a firm middle class which would later bite him in the ass.
So just comparing a picture of a woman in a miniskirt in the seventies to the mandatory hijab of today and concluding that the country has regressed in general seems like the most uncharitable and shallow analysis possible.
So your argument is, what, that a shared photo on a community about sharing photos isn’t a sourced and cited essay?
I don’t know why it should be so difficult to acknowledge that there are different degrees of bad, and the record suggests that the current “shitheads” are still far superior to the former. Nothing I wrote was meant to imply that the current regime doesn’t do a lot of bad stuff, there are no governments that don’t do bad stuff.
You’re fucking kidding me. You don’t see how “Their government is bad but all governments are bad” is some vile fucking apologia for a totalitarian government? If I said that about the Shah, would it be just as valid? Was SAVAK torturing people just “Well, yes, Iran under the Shah was bad, but all governments are bad”?
To make sense of international politics at all, I think it’s essential to be able to compare different degrees of bad and grade on a curve. Just pointing and saying it’s all bad doesn’t seem like the best of ideas to me. But to each his own.
Oh, cool, we’re grading countries relative to their circumstances? Cool!
Let’s compare women’s rights in Iran to… women’s rights in Iran. That sounds like a fair curve to grade women’s rights in Iran on to me.
I heard a funny joke from an Iranian who said that the only thing that changed after the revolution was that everyone just did the exact same thing behind closed doors. They primarily wanted the foreign controlled government gone, they didn’t care who the opposition was so long as it worked.
Highly recommended read: Persepolis. It’s a comic book style autobiography of Marjane Satrapi, an Iranian woman who grew up around that time, was sent to France after the 1979 revolution and later returned.
I met this older, cool hippie lady at my old apartment building. She was always wearing the cool hippy style and was a very free spirit. She told me that she got the F out of Iran during the revolution. She hates going back to visit Iran cause she has to wear the head covering and be accompanied by a man, etc. She used to show me a bunch of pics similar to this one, of her and her young friends partying and enjoying life before the religious assholes ruined it all.
Note that she was able to get
the F out of Iran during the revolution
. People living like on this photo were not the majority by any measure. Those crowds of poor ignorant religious people yelling “ya hossein” were.
People posting such photos say, of course, what they wanted to say. But westernization of Iran was not too different from what MBS is doing in Saudi Arabia. A monarch’s hobby.
He even was self-confident enough to say in interviews that his oil-powered kingdom with the majority of population still living in middle ages is the future and the western nations are the past.
Idealizing Shah’s Iran is one of the stupid things people do today all the time. I dunno why - to forget that the revolution was supported by the West? Only somehow mojaheds and others such forces turned out to be weaker than Homeini.
It’s funny that people in the West are completely unaware of how this happened…
Probably some shit that happened before I was born that makes me more responsible than the people that are actually beating women to death right now?
At a certain point maybe we should consider that Iranian assholes to shitty things to people in their country are responsible for their own actions? I mean there’s only so far you can take the “White Man’s Burden” narrative isn’t there?
No access to travelling band instruments salesmen?
Evil muslims that hate freedom, obviously!
Wuzzat? The previous Iranian government was a corrupt monarchy set up by USA-UK because of oil? Nonsense! When the did the USA and UK ever orchestrate a coup to set up a friendly government for their own profit? That’s totally NOT something they did back in 1953, no sir!
/s
It’s almost like imperialism and colonialism are the major sources for why countries have failed.
Which is funny because Anti colonialists have an entire wiki describing that they “critically support” modern Iran
Big “I didn’t actually read the article I linked” energy in this comment.
And yet Tankies still “critically support” modern Iran
National liberation is a prerequisite for socialist liberation. Marx correctly observed this back in his own day, and directed socialists to support struggles against the British Empire even if the leaders of those struggles weren’t socialist. Nowadays we support national liberation from the American Empire for much the same reasons, even if those revolutions and their leaders aren’t perfect.
Those revolutions and their leaders are the exact opposite of who I want or am willing to give power to, and if you think they are the path forward to a better future you are a dangerous fool
If you think that shackling the entire world to the American Empire is the path forward to a better future, then you are just a regular fool.
Do you even know what critical support means?
My point is look at the list of highlighted allies, and if your set of values is similar to theirs, maybe rethink whether or not you are an ally of lgbtq people or even treating people with decency. If you guys critically support Russia and Iran, maybe we critically support the West?
There is a section above that lists nations that they support and a section below that they critically support. The ones above are the ones who’s values they align with. The ones below are “enemies of my enemies”. That is what critical support means.
Take a good hard look at the middle east and its recent history and tell me that Iran is the problem. Look at Israel, the Saudi Kingdom and the Islamic republic seriously:
- who has committed the most genocide?
- who is the most homophobic?
- who spreads the most terrorists?
- who oppresses their women the most?
And back to you, who in that critically support category is currently freaking their neighbors out the most because they’ve made it clear they want to reclaim their old glory and old country (aka imperial) borders? As well as openly assasinates citizens of other countries IN said countries? And sure, lets go a step above where it says you fully align with their values, China’s track record with LGBTQ rights, while not the worst comparitably, isn’t particularly great, and when it comes to how they treat minorities the Uyghur people would like a word and so would the falun gong.
At least with Republicans in the US, they are open about hating gay people and minorities, yet the Prole Wiki pretends like it gives a shit.
who in that critically support category is currently freaking their neighbors out the most because they’ve made it clear they want to reclaim their old glory and old country (aka imperial) borders
Are you referring to Russia? Because Putin’s never said “hey let’s re-conquest the old Russian Empire”, he’s actually been pretty consistent at saying “hey I don’t want NATO touching my border”.
You seem to have a very distorted view of reality, which is frankly a result of all of the propaganda you have consumed and adopted uncritically into your worldview. The Uyghurs are healthier and wealthier now than they have ever been as a result of Chinese anti-poverty and modernization programs, and the Falun Gong were always a cult on the level of Scientology who needed to be broken up and their members deprogrammed before they convinced more innocent people to kill themselves in acts of protest against teaching science in schools.
This is your only warning. Uyghur Genocide denial is not welcome here.
Are you referring to Russia? Because Putin’s never said “hey let’s re-conquest the old Russian Empire”, he’s actually been pretty consistent at saying “hey I don’t want NATO touching my border”.
So Putin has been pretty consistent, just in saying “hey let’s re-conquest the old Russian Empire”
I see you didn’t answer my question and are now pivoting to Russia and China when the subject of the thread is Iran. But I’ll take the time to point out the inconsistencies here:
- currently freaking their neighbors out the most right and the US freaks out nations in other continents. See, Iraq, Vietnam, all of south america.
- As well as openly assasinates citizens of other countries IN said countries? The US does this all over the world at an industrial scale. Are you really unaware of the extent of the drone program?
- China’s track record with LGBTQ rights, I’m sure stoking sinophobia will help them.
- You point at the Uyghurs. I point at the Native Americans, the Palestinians, and all the genocide the colonial empires of NATO have perpetrated. Shall we compare death tolls? Please find me a Uyghur death toll.
- Falong Gong. Are you fucking kidding me? Giving a shit about that trumpist cult has to say is directly injecting Radio Free Asia into your eyeballs.
Uyghur genocide denial is not welcome here. This is your only warning.
Wasn’t there a video years ago where an young Iranian women schooled reporters when they hit her with this propaganda? This was the period far more intense political repression and violence against the public than the Islamic Republic. You could be beaten in public for wearing the hijab at this time.
So a beating in public is worse than a beating in public, going to jail, or being killed? Sure is a good thing that hasn’t happened since the Islamic Republic took over, amiright?
Shah’s secret police wasn’t too nice. They are both worse.
Yeah, I’m not defending either group, just pointing out that the group the other poster was defending had the same things happen or worse.
You would absolutely get brutally tortured and killed for far less under the shah’s rule. What absolute historical ignorance. You’re like a Cuban pining for the days of Bautista.
You didn’t say it was better now, you said this didn’t happen since the Islamic Republic, like there weren’tYou did say it was better than when the Western-installed government was there, but you are talking like having literal morality police and the Arab Spring (and the government response) never happened. I may not be as aware of the complete history of a country half a world away from me as I should be, but I haven’t forgotten world news from 2 years ago, either.When did I ever say I don’t have criticisms of Iran? I just see no time wasting my breath on them when my country is constantly threatening war with Iran. If you want to help Iranian progressives then actually learn about Iranian history and what they actually want from western progressives. I’ll give you a hint: its not “fetishize nostalgia for the shah” like this post. It’s usually, “for the love of god please lift the sanctions”.
That’s an odd way to spell “intentionally miseducated”, but it tracks.
I’m a bit East of Iran and also clueless…
In the 1950s, the democratic government of Iran almost succeeded in driving out the monarchy for good. The US and the UK secretly sponsored a coup (‘Operation Ajax’) taking advantage of said government’s instability over an oil/nationalization dispute. The UK wanted to keep their colonial-era concessions, and Iran, understandably, rather prefered they didn’t.
In the late 1970s, there was a revolution which DID drive out the monarchy, but was hijacked by religious extremists.
This is a perfect example of society progressing backwards
It was a coup that installed the authoritarian government there. Aided by the CIA.
This picture exists to sell the libs on how amazing the coup was the West did in Iran in 1953 called Operation Ajax. They overthrew the Iranian democratic government and install a liberal “king” as leader
It was a few liberal elites in the capital enjoying their riches by selling their country out.
The average population of Iran looked nothing like this image.
They hate him because he spoke the truth.
And also many of the forces participating in the revolution were quite democratic and even progressive. It’s just that Homeini and co gave them sort of a night of the long knives and created the theocracy.
Well, here I don’t see feminists promoting hijab as ultimate feminism. I wonder why…
Some people lack baincells to understand hijab or not hijab is matter of choice
Everyone in Iran just so happened to choose hijab, right?
NO.
“how could they have let this happen!”
-people in a country where people are making it happen
But, it can’t happen here, right?
RIGHT?
Holy shit, that’s nuts. For people in the US like me who were unaware of who this Mark Robinson guy is, stop scrolling and read this article. Absolutely wild lol. And he can be a governor?! 😬
Maybe I should start reading the Handmaid’s Tale to get an idea of where our country is going…
Here is the 30 second ad that runs in NC. It is real.
meanwhile, the sensible choice https://youtu.be/eH3-AaCaT1Y
i’m honestly kind of surprised someone like robinson became the pick for GOP. for one, he’s ridiculously extreme even for this state. for another, there are still a lot of people in NC who simply won’t vote for a black person regardless. i think stein has a decent chance of winning, given how cooper got reelected even though the state went for trump
Also, if you know any Iranians, they don’t wear hijab in the house there.
So yes, this photo would still be possible.
(And of course I am strongly against the theocracy in Iran)
one of my closest friends in high school had an iranian mom. mom and sister never wore hijabs, though only in the states. when they visited iran they did. but at the end of they day, they’re people just like anyone else who has fanatical religious psychos trying to control everything
America helped
The beginning
U.S. and British intelligence agencies help elements in the Iranian military overthrow Iran’s prime minister, Mohammed Mossadeq. This follows Mossadeq’s nationalization of the Britain-owned Anglo-Persian Oil Company, which led London to impose an oil embargo on Iran. The coup brings back to power the Western-friendly monarchy, headed by Shah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi. Deeply unpopular among much of the population, the shah relies on U.S. support to remain in power until his overthrow in 1979.
america also helped the taliban come to power. twice. but they don’t like to talk about that
Yup, they didnt work with the Shah because he was secular. The US doesn’t care if your religious or not, as long as you oppose communism and related policies (including national control of your own resources instead of letting foreign companies own them).
Gems of religion
Amen 😉
Tone deaf much? 🤦🏽♂️
Irony isn’t your forte is it?
Projection, too? You’re a triple threat. 🤩
I would like to see someone make a video/movie/documentary… Showing just what our society would be like under the Fascist Theocracy the Republicans are working so hard to build. The amount of horrifying consequences in their plans is shocking. Most people don’t understand the consequences of them winning. We need to SHOW them the truth
It’s called “The Handmaids Tale”.
They made it in book and TV show form. Minus the birth problems which kick off the societal change in that story, we’re quickly headed for it.
A Handmaid’s Tale was supposed to be a warning, not a blueprint. Even the birth rate issue is getting more real as younger couples are opting not to have kids because it’s impossible to afford it.
I WAS SICK OF THESE FUCKING POSTS ON REDDIT ALL THE TIME DONT START THIS SHIT HERE
Calm down dear - you’ll give yourself an aneurysm.
It’s ironic Christian nationalists hate Muslims and Sharia law, yet are doing everything they can to emulate the worst parts of Islamic theocratic rulers
Because it’s ultimately about control. They’ve found it through their method and don’t like the others see like it.
They hate them because they’re the rival gang.
