Let me put things in German terms for you, this is like Alice Weidel and Olaf Scholz running against each other in a close election for Chancellor, where Weidal is the batshit crazy candidate that spews conspiracy theories and Scholz is the sane guy that nobody likes but is better than the alternative. While Weidal is doing a rally for her campaign, some neo nazi, perhaps even further right than she is, attempts to assassinate her for whatever reason. Despite Scholz having nothing to do with the incident, Weidal and the entire Afd crowd start blaming him for it because of the conspiracy theories that she, her party, and her supporters spew and believe. That’s how you get our current situation.
Even though I knew the context, I’m kinda scared that might happen here too (we don’t have that much guns here, but people have ways…). Just remember what happened to Shinzo Abe in Japan, where gun laws are very strict and the shooter just went and built a blunderbuss.
Whatever the reasons of that certain shooter, it’s plausible that some ultra-right nutjob would want to kill Weidel because of her being “not extreme enough” or her homosexuality (that’s a fact, btw.) and accidentially make her a martyr.
Germany and France in particular are worrying cases when it comes to Europe because the have a sizable far left and far right that can be unhinged at times. What’s worse is that there a good amount of whackos that are even further left than the fringe far left Marxist parties and the fringe neo Nazi parties.
In the case of Germany, it’s pretty plausible that some infinitely far right neo Nazi would try assassinate her because she’s a lesbian or some infinitely far left Marxist would try the same because she’s the leader of the Afd or perhaps some crazy jihadist would try to assassinate her because she’s both a woman and a lesbian.
I hope Europe in general tries to keep the lunatics out of power and continue to have pragmatic people rule. I don’t want Europe to go through what we’re going through with the Republicans right now. The end result would be something like Hungary with Orban, and nobody wants that.
At the moment? None, but East Germany used to be a part of the eastern bloc, and there’s still an uncomfortable amount of far left whackos that want that era back. They’re not as popular as Afd right now because the big issue in the country at the moment is immigration, and Afd’s platform is more much more hardline on that which is more appealing to the whackos than what the far left is offering.
East Germany used to be a part of the eastern bloc, and there’s still an uncomfortable amount of far left whackos that want that era back
East Germany is the base of the AfD, precisely because post-unification Germany did such a good job of blaming the far-left for the country’s economic problems. Past that, I’m not even sure what constitutes “uncomfortable amounts”, as it seems any number higher than zero gets blamed every time Olaf’s (Not Particularly) Green Party tumbles in the polls.
Are you thinking of the Antideutsche movement? Because that camp has support numbers in the high hundreds on a good day. AfD will have more seats in Parliament than Antideutsche can turn out to a street protest by the next election cycle.
No, I’m talking about the actual far left. The Afd has more momentum atm, but there has always been presence of both the far right and far left in East Germany. Here’s some bits of an interesting article from September 2023 by Bloomberg that demonstrates what I’m talking about:
A fifth of German voters would consider backing a new party that may be established by a far-left politician who has opposed weapons deliveries to Ukraine, according to a poll published Monday.
Sahra Wagenknecht of the Left party — which traces its roots to East Germany’s communist party — has said she will make a decision on whether to set up a breakaway group by the end of this year.
Wagenknecht’s move is potentially significant, since she could potentially woo voters away from the far-right Alternative for Germany, which is leading in the polls in the three eastern German regions due to hold elections next fall.
Among AfD voters, 29% said they could contemplate backing Wagenknecht, compared with 55% of Left voters, according to the Sept. 15-20 YouGov poll of 2,134 people. At 29%, potential support for Wagenknecht is higher in eastern Germany than in the west, where it’s at 19%, the poll showed.
That’s quite a bit of overlap. The far left isn’t exactly dead in East Germany as you seem to describe it, and neither is the far right. They work in tandum alongside jihadists to keep normal Germans up at night. That’s why Germans constantly protest extremism and vote in guys like Scholz.
Scholz is the sane guy that nobody likes but is better than the alternative
The question you have to ask yourself is how a guy nobody likes keeps becoming the uncontested nominee for majority leader.
Keir Starmer, Olaf Schultz, and Emanuel Macron all have this uncanny ability to be the “pick me or your country has a little fascist accident” candidate.
Meanwhile, actual popular candidates are rendered “unelectable” by hostile media, enormous private ad campaigns, and dirty partisan tricks.
I’m not too tuned in into European politics outside of specific areas, but my understanding is that people generally gravitate towards the boring moderate types because they tend to be the most safe and pragmatic option. The choice becomes a no brainer when the alternative is indeed fascistic. It’s kind of like how we ended up with Biden. During the Democratic primaries, guys like Bernie or Yang had a more populist appeal. However, Biden was seen as the moderate with the wide appeal because he was safe, boring, pragmatic, experienced, etc even though nobody really had him as their initial first choice. When he won the nomination and the general election came down to him and Trump, everybody flocked to Biden because Trump is batshit crazy.
It’s really not. Let’s go through some basic stats:
There are 330 million Americans
There are 258 million adults
There are 161 million registered voters
Of those, less than 1/2 vote in midterms and less than 2/3 vote in presidential elections
Of those, only around half vote Republican and that includes independents
If we include the Republican leaning independents, that number comes out to around 40 million to 50 million people depending on the election cycle. That’s 12-15% of all Americans, 15-19% of all adults, 24-31% of registered voters, and around 50% of active voters. Keep in mind, this includes independents, if we only includes partisan identified Republicans, all these percentages would be lower. Keep in mind, this includes the very small minority of reasonable Republicans like Adam Kinzinger or Mitt Romney.
The reality is that the Trump and his brand of fascism is pretty unpopular. People mistakenly think that the country is split 50/50, but that’s not true. While most people dislike both Trump and Biden, the amount of people who actively like either is very small. But that’s how far right and far left movements gain power, not through popularity but through technicalities, violence, and the zealously of a propaganda fueled base of supporters. This is why it is so important to try and get people who are usually disconnected with politics to tune in and vote against these extremists.
Probably the mild centrist bent to the comment I’d imagine, and also the fact that it’s in response to a comment saying fascism is pretty popular, saying that it’s not. People like their persecution complexes.
Yeah but thats quite different from bread and butter. That 40 to 50 million is like 1/14th of the country. Doesn’t seem like much in that context. Definitely not a majority.
People don’t gravitate to boring and “safe”, they’re pushed there. How come fascists can go as wild as they want but no one can go wild for free healthcare, free education, and free shelter? There is clearly more at play here and it’s obvious from the low approval ratings all these shitty politicians receive.
You are quite literally a genocide supporter. You support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. I remember you from that other post about Ukraine where you were all of over the thread simping for Putin, blaming the US for the invasion, and calling the 2014 revolution in Ukraine a US orchestrated coup. You’re in no position to call out fascists when you’re one yourself.
For anybody who’s curious, I highly recommend you read his comments on that read. This guy is nuts. Here is the link:
Where in any of that did I support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? Where did I “simp” for Putin? You saw me say that maybe the official US line isn’t the entire story and your brain short-circuited to fill in all these bullshit and gross accusations you’re making of me.
I also recommend others read my comments and I mean actually read them, unlike SleezyDizasta over here, because you’ll find that SleezyDizasta has been making things up about me. As for the 2014 coup in Ukraine, it sure is interesting that John McCain was addressing protestors at the time. Why would such a prominent politician be so invested in another country’s opposition to their government? You tell me.
Man this is RICH coming from you who has spouted Israeli ethnonationalist & Palestinian-genocide-denying rhetoric on this site. I was there for multiple instances of it. I’m not normally so direct with my comments about users I’m familar with (it can get real toxic real quick), and I think NATO is necessary and all and I’m against the Russian occupation of Ukraine, but your comment attacking hark is so laughably hypocritical that I can’t help it.
Please do some self-reflection before attacking and trying to discredit a user claiming they’re a “genocide supporter” based on their opinion of Ukraine, when you’ve been much more verifiably pro-genocide. Unless you’ve shifted your opinion since the last time I’ve seen such comments, those seem far more genocide-friendly considering Palestinian casualties (mostly civilian) are multiple times the number of Israeli casualties (mostly soldiers), compared to the war in Ukraine where the Russians have actually taken signficiantly more casualties than Ukrainians and don’t primarily target civilians (compared to Israel which primarily targets civilians to terrorize the population). It’s not a stretch to say that Putin wants to Russify Ukraine further and destroy their culture, and that Russia has terrorized Ukrainians a lot, but to act as if a Ukrainian genocide is happening (to then use that to claim attacks on the Ukrainian government are pro-genocide) is disingenuous.
Let me put things in German terms for you, this is like Alice Weidel and Olaf Scholz running against each other in a close election for Chancellor, where Weidal is the batshit crazy candidate that spews conspiracy theories and Scholz is the sane guy that nobody likes but is better than the alternative. While Weidal is doing a rally for her campaign, some neo nazi, perhaps even further right than she is, attempts to assassinate her for whatever reason. Despite Scholz having nothing to do with the incident, Weidal and the entire Afd crowd start blaming him for it because of the conspiracy theories that she, her party, and her supporters spew and believe. That’s how you get our current situation.
Even though I knew the context, I’m kinda scared that might happen here too (we don’t have that much guns here, but people have ways…). Just remember what happened to Shinzo Abe in Japan, where gun laws are very strict and the shooter just went and built a blunderbuss.
Whatever the reasons of that certain shooter, it’s plausible that some ultra-right nutjob would want to kill Weidel because of her being “not extreme enough” or her homosexuality (that’s a fact, btw.) and accidentially make her a martyr.
Germany and France in particular are worrying cases when it comes to Europe because the have a sizable far left and far right that can be unhinged at times. What’s worse is that there a good amount of whackos that are even further left than the fringe far left Marxist parties and the fringe neo Nazi parties.
In the case of Germany, it’s pretty plausible that some infinitely far right neo Nazi would try assassinate her because she’s a lesbian or some infinitely far left Marxist would try the same because she’s the leader of the Afd or perhaps some crazy jihadist would try to assassinate her because she’s both a woman and a lesbian.
I hope Europe in general tries to keep the lunatics out of power and continue to have pragmatic people rule. I don’t want Europe to go through what we’re going through with the Republicans right now. The end result would be something like Hungary with Orban, and nobody wants that.
Which German Marxist is enjoying the kind of support matched by the AfD?
At the moment? None, but East Germany used to be a part of the eastern bloc, and there’s still an uncomfortable amount of far left whackos that want that era back. They’re not as popular as Afd right now because the big issue in the country at the moment is immigration, and Afd’s platform is more much more hardline on that which is more appealing to the whackos than what the far left is offering.
East Germany is the base of the AfD, precisely because post-unification Germany did such a good job of blaming the far-left for the country’s economic problems. Past that, I’m not even sure what constitutes “uncomfortable amounts”, as it seems any number higher than zero gets blamed every time Olaf’s (Not Particularly) Green Party tumbles in the polls.
Are you thinking of the Antideutsche movement? Because that camp has support numbers in the high hundreds on a good day. AfD will have more seats in Parliament than Antideutsche can turn out to a street protest by the next election cycle.
No, I’m talking about the actual far left. The Afd has more momentum atm, but there has always been presence of both the far right and far left in East Germany. Here’s some bits of an interesting article from September 2023 by Bloomberg that demonstrates what I’m talking about:
Source: https://archive.is/20230925113239/https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-09-25/fifth-of-germans-open-to-backing-new-far-left-party-poll-shows#selection-4885.0-4885.13
That’s quite a bit of overlap. The far left isn’t exactly dead in East Germany as you seem to describe it, and neither is the far right. They work in tandum alongside jihadists to keep normal Germans up at night. That’s why Germans constantly protest extremism and vote in guys like Scholz.
The question you have to ask yourself is how a guy nobody likes keeps becoming the uncontested nominee for majority leader.
Keir Starmer, Olaf Schultz, and Emanuel Macron all have this uncanny ability to be the “pick me or your country has a little fascist accident” candidate.
Meanwhile, actual popular candidates are rendered “unelectable” by hostile media, enormous private ad campaigns, and dirty partisan tricks.
I’m not too tuned in into European politics outside of specific areas, but my understanding is that people generally gravitate towards the boring moderate types because they tend to be the most safe and pragmatic option. The choice becomes a no brainer when the alternative is indeed fascistic. It’s kind of like how we ended up with Biden. During the Democratic primaries, guys like Bernie or Yang had a more populist appeal. However, Biden was seen as the moderate with the wide appeal because he was safe, boring, pragmatic, experienced, etc even though nobody really had him as their initial first choice. When he won the nomination and the general election came down to him and Trump, everybody flocked to Biden because Trump is batshit crazy.
this is kind of an overstatement though, right?
fascism is pretty popular rn.
It’s really not. Let’s go through some basic stats:
If we include the Republican leaning independents, that number comes out to around 40 million to 50 million people depending on the election cycle. That’s 12-15% of all Americans, 15-19% of all adults, 24-31% of registered voters, and around 50% of active voters. Keep in mind, this includes independents, if we only includes partisan identified Republicans, all these percentages would be lower. Keep in mind, this includes the very small minority of reasonable Republicans like Adam Kinzinger or Mitt Romney.
The reality is that the Trump and his brand of fascism is pretty unpopular. People mistakenly think that the country is split 50/50, but that’s not true. While most people dislike both Trump and Biden, the amount of people who actively like either is very small. But that’s how far right and far left movements gain power, not through popularity but through technicalities, violence, and the zealously of a propaganda fueled base of supporters. This is why it is so important to try and get people who are usually disconnected with politics to tune in and vote against these extremists.
Why is this down voted so heavily? These seems pretty correct to me. People on here dont realize how many people are disconnected from it all.
Probably the mild centrist bent to the comment I’d imagine, and also the fact that it’s in response to a comment saying fascism is pretty popular, saying that it’s not. People like their persecution complexes.
if 40 to 50 million people watched some series you can say its pretty popular. its more than enough to build fascism, thats for sure.
Yeah but thats quite different from bread and butter. That 40 to 50 million is like 1/14th of the country. Doesn’t seem like much in that context. Definitely not a majority.
considering a minority even cares, this is enough to build fascism, and they are.
People don’t gravitate to boring and “safe”, they’re pushed there. How come fascists can go as wild as they want but no one can go wild for free healthcare, free education, and free shelter? There is clearly more at play here and it’s obvious from the low approval ratings all these shitty politicians receive.
You are quite literally a genocide supporter. You support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. I remember you from that other post about Ukraine where you were all of over the thread simping for Putin, blaming the US for the invasion, and calling the 2014 revolution in Ukraine a US orchestrated coup. You’re in no position to call out fascists when you’re one yourself.
For anybody who’s curious, I highly recommend you read his comments on that read. This guy is nuts. Here is the link:
https://lemmy.world/comment/11122109
Where in any of that did I support Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? Where did I “simp” for Putin? You saw me say that maybe the official US line isn’t the entire story and your brain short-circuited to fill in all these bullshit and gross accusations you’re making of me.
I also recommend others read my comments and I mean actually read them, unlike SleezyDizasta over here, because you’ll find that SleezyDizasta has been making things up about me. As for the 2014 coup in Ukraine, it sure is interesting that John McCain was addressing protestors at the time. Why would such a prominent politician be so invested in another country’s opposition to their government? You tell me.
Man this is RICH coming from you who has spouted Israeli ethnonationalist & Palestinian-genocide-denying rhetoric on this site. I was there for multiple instances of it. I’m not normally so direct with my comments about users I’m familar with (it can get real toxic real quick), and I think NATO is necessary and all and I’m against the Russian occupation of Ukraine, but your comment attacking hark is so laughably hypocritical that I can’t help it.
Please do some self-reflection before attacking and trying to discredit a user claiming they’re a “genocide supporter” based on their opinion of Ukraine, when you’ve been much more verifiably pro-genocide. Unless you’ve shifted your opinion since the last time I’ve seen such comments, those seem far more genocide-friendly considering Palestinian casualties (mostly civilian) are multiple times the number of Israeli casualties (mostly soldiers), compared to the war in Ukraine where the Russians have actually taken signficiantly more casualties than Ukrainians and don’t primarily target civilians (compared to Israel which primarily targets civilians to terrorize the population). It’s not a stretch to say that Putin wants to Russify Ukraine further and destroy their culture, and that Russia has terrorized Ukrainians a lot, but to act as if a Ukrainian genocide is happening (to then use that to claim attacks on the Ukrainian government are pro-genocide) is disingenuous.
also when did genocide become “boring and safe”
A lot of Democrats are wealthy suburban types. They want to support social freedoms, but they don’t want their taxes to go up.
I find it odd that the three candidates you mentioned were all elected. What’s your point again?
Because the a bunch of billionaires of VW, Uniper and Siemens donated $1 billion to Scholzs campaign and told him he better run.