Hi,
A friend wants to degoogle his phone, so I suggested the OS I’m currently using. The one we can’t talk about… He wants a small/compact phone, so I suggested pixel 4a (not buying second hand though), but I’m afraid that planned obsolescence may kill the phone rather soon. What’s your opinion?
Cheers and thank you for your help,
I am far from unbiased as I just switched back to my pixel 4a from my new Sony Xperia. I think the Pixel 4a is a flat out GREAT phone, full stop. It is perfectly sized IMO, has been very reliable, good battery life (though at this point I should look into replacing the battery), and it has a headphone jack. That being said, picking it as a new phone now essentially means going with a custom rom and hoping it stays supported. That’s fine and all, but it’s not something most people want. Just to be clear, the xperia isn’t a bad option per se, I only switched back because the phone came carrier locked when it was supposed to be unlocked and the carrier it was locked to was uncooperative so I refunded it.
The Pixel 5 is not much more expensive and is still a great phone with good battery life and good camera, and the last Pixel small enough to used one-handed. It also has wireless charging which is missing on the 4a.
If your friend isn’t gaming or doing anything CPU-intensive the P5 is what I would reccommend today. Everything afterwords has been an incremental upgrade for significantly more money.
Can someone explain to me under what circumstances would using an old phone be risky (under a common reasonable threat model)?
No security fixes once the device reaches end of life. For pixel 4a end of security updates was 10 months ago. That mostly is a problem with malicious apps - there were some privilege escalation bugs in those 10 months - but sometimes you get a banger that can get exploited by simply loading a page or opening an image.
I get it about malicious apps but what about just using mainstream apps and surfing the web with adblockers?
Wouldn’t those be typically handled at an OS level? If you’re using an OS that actually gets updates, you’re only vulnerable to attacks at the kernel or driver level
If you are on stock software on EOL device you are not getting os updates either.
Also a bunch of recent vulns were in SoC specific stuff - outside os.
Random hardware suggestions, using mobile Linux support as a litmus test
- Pinephone (Pro): Main downside is that OG Pinephone has extremely anemic hardware, and the charging circuit is not controlled through hardware for some insane reason; hope the kernel devs of whatever OS you put on it knows how to not turn your phone into a bomb. Also Pine64 as a company has gotten flak for their support of Manjaro. Can’t deny how good the price is though.
- Fairphone 4: Good hardware, but expensive. I don’t own it, but it works good on postmarketOS according to the wiki.
- Librem 5: Overpriced compared to the earlier members on this list, but you can guarantee the phosh interface will work well considering it was developed by Purism as well.
- OnePlus 6 and 6T: I don’t know much about these, but they’re very popular with the mobile Linux crowd.
As for the pixel, there’s work on it but it’s still broken at the moment. As for the hardware being too old, I haven’t used anything Android in a while, so I don’t know how much performance degrades each release, but a mobile Linux distribution should run just as good today as it will 20 years from now, assuming you use the same interface.
What’s the OS we can’t talk about?
Hannah Montana Android.
We don’t talk about Hannah Montana Android.
We sing about Hannah Montana android
The open-source one that’s so powerful it summons an online fight with at least 50 members if mentioned. It’s kinda anomalous so it is recommended not to mention it online until further research.
The OS-who-shall-not-be-named lest you summon it’s power.
To be more helpful than the joke comments you’ve received so far, it’s graphene OS that’s causing a lot of controversy.
What’s the controversy?
I’m honestly not quite sure, I just know people are getting riled up when it’s mentioned.
It gets people going, (Daniel) 'Mkay?
I stole this from another lemmy comment, please don’t come after me
Who’s comment was that 😂
Can’t really remember right now. I think it was a thread on which phone to buy and people were talking about graphene os on pixels.
Someone commented something along the lines of “m’lady” but with Daniel Micay’s name as a pun
They claim their security measures are better then other custom ROMs.
Don’t they all make that claim?
Hence the controversy! 🙂
Also, Graphene tend to act superior about it and it pisses people off.
That doesnt sound like a controversy, its bascially “btw, I use arch”
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/android/
There is no controversy. There’s a lot of people memeing. I haven’t seen a single security analysis, or survey of options, that didn’t put GOS at the very top. Look at privacy guides, they say graphene is great, but if you can’t use that divest is okay.
People may not like the leader, and the developers are very opinionated which turns other people off, but I don’t think there’s any questioning the pedigree and the level of security provided
Do they all really? I know GrapheneOS does, and I think DivestOS even says “use my OS to stay as up to date as possible, but if you have a current/supported Pixel, use GrapheneOS instead for superior security.” But I don’t recall other OSes really going “we’re more secure than GrapheneOS and here’s why.”
The Google Pixel 4a is officially end-of-life and doesn’t get any software and security updates anymore (https://endoflife.date/pixel).
CalyxOS still provides extended support for Pixel 4a until August 2024.
FYI: “Extended support” from a custom rom means the OS level software gets updated, not the device firmware. So you still end up with a not fully up to date phone.
Written from my Pxiel 4a. :)
Used Pixel 6, 6 Pro, 7 and 7 Pro can be found for reasonable prices these days. One of those in good condition would be a better buy because you’ll still get security patches for a while. Last time I looked, the third party OSs for Pixel phones only supported them for as long as Google did.
He wants a small/compact phone
It goes for like $80-120 in my country. For the price it’s an interesting deal but it’s extremely old so GrapheneOS won’t support it. I think you can still find something like LineageOS or crDroid but tbh it’s too old for a new daily driver. Lack of firmware updates will kill custom ROMs due to incompatibility with new Android versions eventually (and most likely very soon).
Compact phones are dead now and the last ones don’t even seem to support degoggled custom ROMs. You’re out of lack with that.
extremely old
Dude it’s less than four years old lol I get what you are saying but Q3 2020 is not that long ago.
It’s extremely old for a new daily driver phone you want to buy and for Android updates.
I know what you meant but unless you’re gaming there’s nothing you can do with a Pixel 8 that can’t be done with the 4a (though I usually reccomend the P5 because for a few dollars more you can get wireless charging and significantly better battery life).
Firmware updates.
a four year old phone should absolutely still be getting updates
Say that to capitalists.
if only they would listen
Compact phones are dead now and the last ones don’t even seem to support degoogled custom ROMs.
The XZ2 Compact still has LineageOS and DivestOS support and there are ongoing unofficial iodéOS builds for the XZ1 Compact (which I am using). The S10e has decent support too, although it’s a bit larger. But yes, modern compacts are dead in the traditional form factor - it’s now flips or a niche micro-brand phone like the Unihertz Jelly series.
These are older than Pixel 4A lol.
Sorry if I’ve misunderstood what you were trying to say. I interpreted that quote from you as suggesting the last true compact Android phones (the Xperia Compacts and, to a lesser extent, the S10e) don’t have custom ROM support. If you were instead saying the most recently released “compact” phones (which are really just medium-sized phones) don’t have custom ROM support, then that would also be partially incorrect since the Pixel A series is widely supported and the Xperia 5 III has official LineageOS support.
The only “new” compact phones I know are iPhone Mini and some Asus Zenphone. Neither have custom ROM support afaik and both don’t seem to be in production anymore. Medium size phones (6-6.4 inches) are not compacts.
The Jelly Star is even smaller and released last year. Not that I would recommend it to anyone concerned with updates or custom ROM support, because it probably won’t get any lol
Is that a Russian website?
Unihertz is a Chinese company.
You can install LineageOS or e/OS on it (instead of Graphene, if that’s too controversial), and then the 4a is a good phone to use.
The one we can’t talk about…
I don’t get it ? Why can’t we say it’s name ?
Because GrapheneOS is a debatable triggering subject for some people. Basically the OS itself is amazing and very good. But the project leader is apparently arrogant and offensive. And offended a load of big known online personalities. Apparently he says his OS is the best and better then everyone else etc etc. So the question is: do you use and support a project where the product itself is amazing and just what the world needs, but where the project leader is offensive? Some say yes, some say no. = Controversial subject.
Personally I use GrapheneOS because I need a good camera and I like having a flagship modern phone. Currently I’m using a Pixel 7 Pro. I also like the privacy and security features that graphene offer. I don’t see another project out there that can offer me the same. The product is good.
But the project leader is apparently arrogant and offensive.
“apparently”
Well yes exactly. It’s all just big personalities online that say that these things happened. Who knows really what the guy is like. A few big names online say these things about him, but I personally have never had any Interaction with him. So it could all be true, or partly true, or not at all. I guess no smoke without fire… but there is always 2 sides to every story.
Yes, that is too old for a new phone considering it’s already past its end-of-life for both official support and your OS. I’m not sure why you’d recommend them to buy new either - a phone like that is only going to be good value if you pick up a used one for cheap. A new model will be massively overpriced for what it is (and may not even be new, just refurbished and repackaged).
I guess they were talking about a refurbished or a used one.
They specifically said “not second hand” so I assumed not.
Sorry I am really blind recently. A new 4A is a terrible deal
Its to old. You really should not be using phones that do not get full security updates.
Has there been a successful exploit against a phone with old firmware but modern Android security patches?
I am not sure if there is an example of that specific situation as it would be pretty odd for a phone to be receiving security patches but not firmware updates.
Anyway its not super relevant as the Pixel 5 does not receive firmware or security patches anymore.
OP also seems to be inferring he suggested to his friend to use a very specific security / privacy OS that does not recommend using that model phone anymore for the exact reasons I mentioned. Plus the model is only receiving partial support as a stop gap for users to have time to get a newer model and won’t be supported much longer anyway.
Custom ROMs will receive upstream Android security patches but not patches from proprietary components (firmware). For instance, my Moto g7 power has Android security patches from May but the latest vendor security patch level is 2021. (I’m running Lineage OS) I’m curious to know if the older firmware is a problem. I don’t think it is easily exploitable outside of government backdoors. Not that it matters much as I plan on keeping my phone until it dies.
Not sure where your getting your information but the Pixel 5 has not gotten Android updates or security updates in over 7 months.
There are tons of examples of exploits being used to target EOL phones as its common for people to not care about these updates, or be misinformed, so they are easy targets.
If OP or anyone else wants to use an EOL phone that’s fine but, don’t pretend its a smart security practice. Although even if I were to use an EOL phone, LineageOS doesn’t have the greatest background and isn’t really degoogled
You are still missing my point. All phones actively supported by Lineage OS get Android security patches. Those aren’t vendor patches but they do patch the OS and sometimes the kernel.
For instance, the Pixel 5 was last updated June 28. https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/panther/
Not to say that you should still buy it. However, if it cheap it might be worth it.
Also from the article you linked:
Although the incident forced LineageOS to take offline all its service, it did not impact the signing keys that authenticate distributions because they are stored on hosts separate from the main infrastructure.
Those are partial security patches (its not in the same ballpark as a non EOL phone).
Even non EOL phones are usually updated dangerously slow when it comes to LineageOS.
Some more sources, not sure why I’m even adding them as you seem hell bent to believe LineageOS is secure regardless of the facts.
https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
https://www.kuketz-blog.de/lineageos-weder-sicher-noch-datenschutzfreundlich-custom-roms-teil4/
If my device is so insecure why haven’t I been compromised? Your “facts” are only important if it promotes Graphene OS.
I bought a used Pixel 5 in Feb for my daily driver. Replaced my Pixel 3 only because the power button was flaky. They both still run great. By my standards, getting two years out of a phone I paid $150 for is better than getting three years out of a $700 phone.
After my 6 year old Redmi 4X’s screen touch decided to die, I got an opened-not-used Pixel 4a (in perfect condition) at the end of 2022, because it was one of the few small-ish phones that had good modding support (Pixel phones are ofc known to be very good to degoogle). I love it. Feels good, works well, has a great camera (got a GCam mod too), etc. Only downside is the smaller battery (3100 vs 4100 mAh), but honestly it isn’t that big of a deal, I can just carry a powerbank on my backpack or, you know, use my phone less.
Back then, it was the perfect choice for me. Now, I don’t know, haven’t been keeping up with current models.
I love the battery. I got a well used phone and I rarely have less than 70% at the end of the day.
But I leave my phone in airplane mode 24/7 (just use WiFi, no SIM)
Its comments like this that lead Google to make newer phones have stupid big batteries. I hate those big, heavy phones :(
Ah right, airplane mode makes a ton of difference. I also tend to have it enabled as much as I can, usually when I’m home (and thus reachable through VoIP services) or at work. And I (almsot) never turn it off, I just leave it in airplane mode. I limit the charge to 75/80%, with ACCA, so I get even less juice.
And I’m sorry, I also dislike big phones with huge screens and batteries, there’s no real need for that. But I know that you can fit better batteries in smaller phones as well. My previous device was smaller than the Pixel 4a, but had a bigger battery, while having almost identical weight.
I wish manufacturers would make smaller phones, really. I’m very unsure what other device I will get after this one dies or gets broken…Hi, do you maybe know any similar apps like ACCA that do not require root?
Unfortunately, no. I believe you can’t really get this level of control without root access.
Thanks for sharing ACCA. Very neat
No problem, glad to have more people know about it, it’s very useful!
The Pixel 5 is still a great phone with his battery life and camera, and the last Pixel small enough to used one-handed.
If they’re not gaming or doing anything CPU-intensive it’s what I reccommend today. Everything afterwords has been an incremental upgrade.
don’t they have issues with randomly getting stuck in edl?
