Don’t come to Greece, over tourism is a huge problem here…
ΝΑΙ ΓΑΜΩ. Even though my family works in the tourism industry (because my island literally only has that. Any sort of local economy was eradicated and everything is incredibly overpriced and imported), I have felt the negative effects deep in my soul, so much so I wish it would just dissolve even if that means they need to find another way to make a living. I’ll be damned if I ever willingly work for traditional tourism (ecotourism I will consider)
Was about to say the same for Spain. Fuck you, tourists. Stay at home.
I feel you lol. I wish less people came to Portugal, especially Lisbon and Porto. It’s a bit ridiculous sometimes. The culture people come looking for is slowly dying or becoming a fake version of itself because legit stuff is being pushed out of historical centers, in favor or tourist attracting alternatives. The issue of overpricing (because all the English, German, French, etc, visiting Portugal earn way better than us here in average) is ludicrous, it’s becoming harder to enjoy the places we used to go 15 or 20 years ago.
sighIt really is sad. For more than 25 years I’ve been visiting Portugal (so yes, I’m part of the problem…) and every year it gets a bit worse: endless new hotels destroying the beautiful views of the cliffs, villages mostly catering the needs of tourists, …
I just wish I hadn’t told everyone how amazing it is in Portugal 🥲
It is, the the fault isn’t entirely on the tourists (specially if they’re respecting and give two fucks about the places they’re visiting); the governments have been pushing tons of pro-tourism stuff everywhere for years, hence why we grew that industry so much, often without thinking of long term consequences and economic balance. So now, we have an economy overly dependent on tourism (with all the good but mostly bad stuff that brings), which, in addition to other shitty decisions like massive roadway investment instead of railway (we have one of the best road network in Europe, but a shitty railway one, significantly shrinked down in the last 40 years), have led to lots of serious issues preventing good development of a lot of other industry we could have and once had. The classic example is Algarve (the southernmost region) is so dependent on tourist they had a very hard time during COVID. Outside of Lisbon’s (<2M) and Porto’s (>1M) metro areas, every other city has less than 500k people, and the vast majority less than 100k, which presents obvious issues.
Anyway, sorry for the shit dump 😅
Thanks for the insight! I just hope that Porto and Lisbon don’t turn into another Paris or Rome…
That’s really sad, because one day I wanted to go and learn Jogo do Pão. I hear it’s a dying art but they’re trying to keep it alive.
lol
I believe “jogo da bolacha” is a more common name here X)Lmao I was confused but I think I see where I got it wrong. I said “bread game” instead of “stick game”. XD
Apologies for butchering the language. :)
…Lol the machine translation of “jogo do pau” appears to be…Less than polite? Hahaha.
So, clarification: I think rural stick fighting from Portugal would be really cool to learn. :) lol
Aaaaaah, that makes much more sense lmao
The “jogo do pão”/“jogo da bolacha” is silly and dirty kids “game”, I was quite confused how you even knew about it x)
But yeah, jogo do pau is pretty cool, though I know little about it. It’s another slowly dying bit of our culture.
This was a hilarious case of language misunderstanding. XD
I’m still laughing at how accidentally switching two similar words meant that comment must have sounded REALLY freaking weird to you LOL. I learned a valuable lesson here.
Yeah, in NA this is called “limp biscuit”…there was a popular band named after the concept. Gross. 🤢
XD I was caught very off-guard, ngl
Yeah, in NA this is called “limp biscuit”…there was a popular band named after the concept. Gross. 🤢
Nice to know x)
Actually, the traditional Jogo da Bolacha is also a thing. If you’re in Portugal and someone asks for you to join, YOU JOIN. It’s extremely rude for foreigners to refuse the Jogo da Bolacha. Specially if the inviter winks at you. It’s also good manners to announce you’ll loose the first few times, while you learn. If people are surprised by this just smile, lick your lips and say you’re the Cookie Monster. You’ll be accepted among us very quickly.
Okay. You. You’re a sneaky sneaky one, you. LOL That comment made me laugh so hard.
So, sadly, with my internet-ruined mind, I kinda guessed this when someone said “cookie game.” Over here in NA it’s called “limp biscuit” (like the band), and knowledge of the concept alone is enough to hope it’s just an urban-legend joke and nobody’s actually played it. 😂
“I am the Cookie Monster” ROFLMAO!!!
Messed up, but really damn funny. XD
But Im planning a Honeymoon and want to enijoy your history. Can I go if I dont use airbnb?
I don’t think there is any way right now to come without negatively affecting the locals. Essentially, the tourists to locals ratio is out of hand. A few of the problems we are facing:
- Everything is overcrowded. Our public infrastructure is barely equipped to handle the population of 10M, on top of that add the 36M visitors we saw in 2023. It may be fun and exciting if you are here for a couple of days, but living through that all year long is exhausting.
- Everything is overpriced. Most people coming to Greece have expendable income we don’t have, along with overcrowding, this sets prices we cannot afford. Airbnb has definitely exaggerated the housing crisis, but it’s not the only issue. When you are eating, drinking, visiting historical sights, or doing any activity, you are contributing to that.
- Our economy is over-reliant on tourism. As someone else commented, no other type of industry can compete with tourism, every year more places lose their identity as they adapt to the ever-growing needs of the tourism industry.
- Our history is being erased. Visiting a historical sight may a wonderful experience for you, but every step you make, every photo you take, every trash you throw, impacts the place you are visiting, destroying little by little thousands of years of history.
As a personal note, my income is a few times the national average, and yet I cannot afford to go on vacations this year…
As a (not) fun challenge you can try to limit your budget to around 30 eur per day per person. You will fail, probably won’t even find living accommodations within that budget, but it will give you an insight on our struggles.
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Ah yes, the famously war torn Sweden.
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Ah yes, the famous “no go” zones of Sweden.
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They have a “no go” zone in the city where I live. I went there. It is nice. The people are poor by Swedish standards but if you’re not from here you would not bat an eye. The only way you believe this is if you have never been to Sweden, or at least not a “no go” zone and/or you get all your news from racist right wing fuckwits who desperately try to convince you that Arabs are destroying European society.
OP Sweden is nice, even Stockholm and Gothenburg, just a bit expensive
Swedes told me that Malmö is a rough and ugly city before I went there. And honestly it was a fairly average coastal city that did not seem rough at all. Also had some beautiful spots.
Sweden is actually pretty nice, if you stay away from bigger cities
Belgorod.
Not a European, but I’m going with dark alleys.
Well, yeah, in some places, but there’s countries where that’s a far worse idea than in Europe.
If you used that rule in US cities, you would both stay alive, and miss out on some really cool bars.
There’s one here in the US that doesn’t have any signage at all. Just a lightly pink door. It opens down into one of the coolest restaurants and live performance places in the city. It has become pretty popular.
I was disappointed with Paris in my last visit. It’s filthy, dirty and disgusting.
Compared to NYC, Paris is downright spotless.
Aah, Paris 🥰
As a European from elsewhere in Europe, I’m never going back to Milan. Maybe it’s fine if you’re into fashion, but if you’re not there’s not much to look at except a cathedral which resembles every other cathedral, and it’s impossible to get a photo of it without also having a friendship bracelet scammer in the frame, actively harassing you.
All tourist locations in Italy and France have people trying to scam you (and some non-scammers just trying to sell you cheap toys), but Milan is the only place I’ve been to where they’re straight up harassing you non-stop. Go to Pisa instead, it’s super relaxing there and you can marvel at their past mistakes in structural engineering. A far better deal.
Scammers abroad: Troll with randomness. Laugh at inappropriate times. Nod at them while making the eating food gesture. Randomly start pointing down a street like you’re trying to give directions but just shrug. Pick a random sports team name and say, “Gooooo EAGLES!” while nodding and dancing. Basically pick some random thing, pretend they said it, and you’re going along with it.
If they’re pointing to friendship braclets, you say “9 o’clock.” even though it’s 1:30. If they keep doing it, you just laugh, nod, and clap.
My favourite is pretending I’m deaf and making up signing. When they start gesturing, I repeat the gesture in shock. When they nod, I act disgusted like they’re sick in the head.
They will very quickly move on since you’re a waste of time. The more awkward you make it, the better, especially if you’re drawing looks from others.
That is hilarious but too much effort. A simple ‘Fuck off’ should suffice.
That does work too, but not on the ones that put shit on you and demand payment, usually operating as 2+. Their tactic is intimidation and drama—playing the victim to you—but it can not be beaten if you’re playing the role of a happy idiot, providing random or exact opposite behaviour to what they’re attempting.
One of these guys walked up and gave me a handful of birdseed, prompting a flock of pigeons to come perch on my arms. I most certainly did not hand over the money they wanted for the experience I didn’t ask for and was somewhat disgusted by.
I just don’t engage. You don’t have to talk back and they get the hint rather quickly that there are more rubes nearby.
I’ve used very similar techniques on men in bars who don’t think no is a complete sentence.
I’m well past the age for shame. I will make a fool of myself if it means some twerp will think twice about harassing a woman who’s repeatedly turned them down
I’d never considered doing the same for scammers - great idea! I’m just overly polite and that makes me seem like a target I think.
I have personally yelled, “Fuck off! No means no you fucking creep!” at the top of my lungs in a crowded bar. It was genuine, but over the top so every other person would turn and see them, ruining their chances of “picking up” at that establishment, forcing them to leave.
“Are you okay?”
“Oh, yeah I’m fine. That guy just needed to learn a fucking lesson.”
Pisa is bad too, it is just the tower and crazy tourist prices.
How about Venice?
Terrible, not a real city, like the other person said, feels more like a theme park for tourists. Already did 20 years ago, last time i’ve been, never going back.
Venice kind of has a Disneyland vibe.
There aren’t any scammers, the place is filled with history, and is relatively well kept and run. The flip side to it is that feels like a theme park at times.
It also has Disneyland prices.
I was in Venice pre-covid. I spent a day walking around and soaking in the sights and sounds. Sat by myself for an hour listening to some guy play the chello. It was beautiful. Never got harassed by street peddlers or scammers unlike in Milan. The architecture was beautiful like nothing else. Its a city trapped in the Renaissance era.
Pisa has a few other places, but you can see the city in a day and not miss anything.
We were in the mood for a chill day, so it was nice to just chill in a park and walk through some random old neighborhoods until we stumbled across a restaurant. There’s nothing chill about Milan, though, at least not where a clueless tourist would find it.
Funny you should say that; I went to Florence some years back and we took a day trip to Pisa and had to deal with the worst, most aggressive scammers I’ve ever experienced.
We may have just gotten lucky. I also had a great time in Venice once by wandering off randomly and ending up somewhere I can only assume tourists don’t normally go. We bought some fruit off a boat which was both delicious and very affordable, so I assume the target demographic was not tourists. I’m pretty sure that’s not the universal experience of Venice either.
I really enjoyed visiting Cimiteiro Monumentale in Milan. A historic cemetery with lots of lavishishly designed huge tombs. Very few tourists there and no scammers whatsoever.
I liked the middle finger statue
Not a place in particular, but if you’re driving, avoid any border crossings during peak holiday seasons. Specifically when you’re crossing from the EU into non-EU countries or crossing from Schengen into non-Schengen area. During peak times you might be waiting at the border for hours.
Don’t drive! You’re in Europe… trains go fucking everywhere!
Just to note, this doesn’t apply to the UK. Our trains are generally useless and expensive.
Any reason in particular? I would have thought that the UK would be all over good rail transit.
One word: privatization
Well, there are some exceptions. This year, I’m travelling by train to all my holiday destinations, but the last connection I will fly because the trains run in such a stupidly way.
Yea - my statement is generally accurate for Western Europe. Eastern Europe, especially the Balkans, is awful for high-speed coverage.
In my case actually Western Europe, but a very specific connection that would either need to go through the alps (which means slow speeds and switching trains a lot) or take a huge detour via Paris.
Things get less well connected in the more eastern nations, especially heading down to Greece.
It seems like you’ve never been to Germany
Wanted to say that too. I mean, technically the train network is pretty well connected but it’s so underfunded that trains oftentimes don’t drive at all or they’re late and then every train after that is also late. It’s mostly fine but it happens way too often. I had to stand in freezing cold for an hour or longer too many times in the last three years where I took the train daily.
I don’t know, maybe it’s just particularly bad where I live, but I regularly have to the the god damn Schienenersatzverkehr, and even this god damn fucking bus that is supposed to replace the train is always like 20 minutes late. Like how the fuck do you even mess that up DB? HOW?!
Yeah, I had to take a SEV for a while too because there was construction on the train tracks and I came late every single day because apparently nobody at DB thought that 2 full trains (and with full I mean that people always had to stand because there weren’t enough seats) couldn’t just fit into one bus. That bus was always completely full (people standing in the middle up to the front door) and a lot of people still just wouldn’t fit in.
Average DB experience
But I’m sure it’s gonna get better if the FDP keeps taking away funds to use them for autobahns
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OP is a close relative of “Hey everyone, I have 5 days to visit Europe, what’s the best route to see everything?”
Reading the title, I would presume OP wants someone from one of those over 40 nations in Europe to say where tourists should avoid at all costs.
There was a post earlier today complaining about questions that aren’t open-ended, and therefore don’t adhere to the community rules. So here we are with a question with many possible answers (which makes it properly open-ended).
I mean - if you’ve been to Switzerland you know the answer is Switzerland.
Europe
Sorry, jokes are not allowed on this instance. Please find a less serious one to make such frivolous comments, thank you
Beware of blind Belgian nuns
The green dots are all fascinating places that I’ve visited or want to visit in France
Note that none of them are in P🤮ris
Is it possible for you to share your list?
Can’t see a way to do it privately, sorry. Unless you know a way
If you haven’t been to France before, make Carcassonne your first stop. It’s a wonderful village with an exceptional walled medieval hamlet.
I’m French ahah. But sometimes it’s nice to see your country from an outside perspective. Being a tourist in your own country can be interesting!
Just guessing by the username and domain, they probably heard of it!
Stopped there for a day on the way back from Spain. The walled Hamlet is beautiful, especially nice to stroll through the streets after dark.
Stay overnight next time! The town surrounding the citadel is actually really pleasant and one of the staples of cuisine local to that area is Cassoulet!
The board game isn’t bad either!
Paris is pretty sweet - just, for the love of God, don’t fucking drive. The metro and easy access to long distance trains make it a pretty frequent stop for me.
Years ago Paris was great fun to drive around. Getting on and off the Périph can be hair raising but when you make it, the sense of elation makes you feel so alive!
I’m not selling it, am I?
Some people are into extreme sports. Driving in Paris can definitely be classified as such
If you go to Britain, bring your own food.
No, no, let’s let this play out.
What a trope
Nah. Went over to Liverpool and London, there’s good food. Just avoid low-end british cuisine, high end is fine, but expensive. Lebanese places in particular seemed to be all-around great, with good prices, tasty food, and friendly people.
Britain has some seriously great food - I don’t know if you’re just memeing but their Indian food is probably the best in the world and traditional fare like pies, sausages, cheeses and fried fish are all delicious.
If you’re vegan you are going to have an unpleasant time, though.
I have a friend who went to London and just ate at Whole Foods all the time. So, vegans can survive.
The best vegan recipes are indian. You can certainly eat well as a vegetarian in London, but most places will have an indian restaurant with a few veggie choices.
Veggie is a lot easier than vegan. Ghee is used a lot in Indian cooking.
Fair point!
Depends where you go, the vegetarian and vegan scene in Brighton is pretty damn impressive.
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Everybody did. Now we have everything.
Avoid French cities: people constantly harass you for money and drugs and it looks shady and feels uncomfortable everywhere. Smaller towns can be nice.
And Italy: it’s expensive, people are rude and arrogant and nearly every place I stayed at gave me a curfew so you can’t even go out at night (but there’s nothing to see there anyway).
Better avoid the whole of Europe to be safe.
Usually when hotels close past a certain time you can use a secondary entrance with your keys/card or at most call. Most hotels have a desk open 24h so this doesn’t even apply.
Also, I really don’t think Italians are generally rude. People are friendly, but also loud and warm, which often can be misunderstood. Assholes exist, obviously.
Usually, yes. But not where I stayed. It was all locked down. Maybe I just had bad luck. It was in Triest and Milan by the way.
I’m always impressed by people projecting “arrogance” into others, especially people you don’t shared a language with. Rude? Sure. Dismissive? Why not. But arrogant? How do you know? Did he give you a five page newsletter that extols his superiority? Are you a mind reader?
This comment doesn‘t hold any value anyway. Just bashing the people living there and then saying the whole country is shit.
Sorry, who gave you a curfew?
Several hostels I stayed at closed at 10 pm and wouldn’t allow people to go in or out
Switzerland. If you’ve got buckets of money it’s fine but donair can easily run you 18 francs and a real meal will cost you 100+. I’ve visited twice and both times the extreme costs involved have hamstrung my ability to actually enjoy things. The trains and geography are amazing - but the streets full of jewelers and high fashion specifically targeting millionaires or up are an awful example of late stage capitalism.
Sorry but you’re exaggerating, a full meal including drinks in a mid-level establishment will be at max. 50 chf and that’s being generous. And with cheaper places you can even stay below 20 chf.
Yes, Switzerland is expensive but there’s no need to lie about it. Also the stuff about millionaires and all maybe fits a couple streets in Switzerland that are very touristy but there are plenty of places not at all like this.
Donair? What’s that? Fancy Doner Kebab made with Don Perignon and air?
My first experience with this food was in Halifax decades ago. The Halifax Donair is a unique thing.
And it’s definitely Donair, not Doner.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donair
Interesting. The creation has a Wikipedia page.
y’all are missing out on the kapsalon
Funny enough you are legally not allowed to call that a Döner in the EU. (Döner by law must not use ground beef. If they do you can call them Kebab,but not Döner)
It’s the French transliteration. Doner would be pronounced “donay”.
A full meal including drinks will usually run 50 chf per person if you’re a couple most meals will run 100+ - it is possible to eat on a budget (we’ve usually relied on sausage stands and donair). And yea, I’m mostly talking about what you’ll find in Lucerne, Zurich, or Geneva where you’re likely to visit.
I don‘t know where you‘re eating lol. A döner in zurich is about 14-15 francs at the moment never seen one for 18 francs and they increased prices the last two years as well.
If you‘re having a meal and drinks for 50 francs per person you have likely been to a fancy restaurant. Don‘t get me wrong, it absolutely is possible to easily go over 50 francs, however its also is very easy to stay below that and still have a good experience.
I live in switzerland and my lunch costs CHF 2.50 so I don’t know where you’ve been eating for one hundred + francs for a ‘real meal’.
How did you get a 2.50CHF lunch? Migro prepacked sandwich?
I always struggle to find cheap lunch options.
I’ve visited multiple times with a camper, and if you use apps like park for night to find free or cheap places to stay!then buy your own ingredients to cook, it’s actually really acceptable. And the nature is gorgeous!
Same for me, with a bicycle and tent. Camp sites are also ok priced, at least for cyclists. Very much enjoy cycling in switzerland, i also think people are friendly. I used to have different experiences but those were just single persons / crazy people or something.
donair can easily run you 18 francs and a real meal will cost you 100+.
What the fuck…??? 😲
Well it’s simply not true, doeners are 10-15, and meals in sitdown restaurants are 12-25. I live in Zurich, restaurants are slightly cheaper than in the US ( plus there is no tip or extra tax, what you see on the menu is what you pay) - but there are less budget options available.
I paid 20€ for a Pizza Margherita in Oslo once. In some very rich places you can feel like a tourist from a developing country even if you are from a less-rich high-income country yourself.
