The only thing crazier to me than American healthcare is how many of my fellow Canadians keep pushing for us to have this bullshit, too.
What’s their argument?
Our Healthcare system isn’t properly funded and managed for our growing population. Covid burst the bulkheads and is used as an excuse to push for private government funded clinics as “more access to healthcare is better”. Why don’t we save some money and just open more public clinics is never on our politicians agenda.
That US system is better cause the privileged don’t have to wait…
Most countries have a private option in some capacity.
But they want the poor to help pay for their privilege…
Even if a semi-private healthcare system means the rich get better care, the money generated will improve the free system vs what we have now. So overall everyone gets better care although some people get BETTER better care
- this is the argument *
This is exactly NOT what will happen.
I’m assuming that was your intention OP, but just in case:
What will happen is private sector clinics/practices/ect will be able to pay more than public, because they can charge whatever they want, so all the talented nurses/doctors ect will vacate the public sector for private, leaving public understaffed and underfunded even more than it is now. Then some shit government will point at the anemic public system they let suffer and say “it doesn’t make sense to keep this thing alive” and take it out back and shoot it. Then we turn into the states.
The rich get better care (which they can already get with a quick plane ticket if they can’t wait) everyone else gets $300 cream.
It’s f-ing ridiculous that anyone believes for profit healthcare would (note I believe they COULD, they just are designed not to) provide better care than a unified public service that wasn’t being slowly chipped away to make room for profiteering.
Exactly, it could work in theory, but that theory relies on our government executing a proper plan, which they repeatedly seem incapable of doing. Anyone who believes it could work at this point is hooked up on hopium (in my opinion)
I don’t see how it could work in theory. Let’s assume you have a public and a private system and somehow the private system magically performs better than the public system. Then people cut support and funding for the public system and all you have is a private system. But now everyone is stuck with it, so at best you have to have a large body of regulators watching over private companies that are trying to flout the rules as much as possible because that’s their profit margin. And this must all unavoidably drive up the price, because of the profit margin and the extra people involved.
And that’s all assuming that you can properly regulate the system, which you clearly can’t, because the more money it has then the more power it has, and healthcare is a massive industry.
It doesn’t even work in theory. The core concept of a two tiered system is unstable. One way or another, one of those two systems will collapse the other.
Yeah! I’m sure if we give insurance CEOs enough money, the excess will “trickle down” to the rest of us! There are 0 examples of this backfiring spectacularly.
It’s not just Canada - there are people in countries with far better Healthcare Systems that the US, including with National Health Services, who want a US style one.
However this isn’t “man on the street” kind of people, these are the kind who think that if Healthcare costs went from 7% of GDP to 14%, they themselves would be able to capture a significant proportion of those extra 7% - so “investors”, financiers and the kind of politicians bought with money from ultra-rich Americans (like the money that Steve Bannon came to Europe with a couple of years ago very overtly to strengthen the far right).
My own country now has an ultra-neoliberal part that popped-up from nowhere some year ago after Steve Gannon brought that money to Europe, with the most glitzy marketing and the most expensive political pamphlets of all parties, and who, in a country with an actual National Health System, were the only party that wanted it fully privatised, though they stopped being open about it when they found out people were overwhelmingly against it. This party’s ideology has zero local ideas or basis and is wholesale imported from the America’s hardest neolibs (think Financiers and Tech Bros) and yet it got itself up to 7% of the vote in about 5 years.
This is the grifters spreading misinformation so that they can privatize healthcare and make money off of it.
And people fall for it.
I 100% get my prescriptions without insurance and just use the local pharmacy discount rate they offer. My insurance is employer provided aimed at people who make a lot more money than the employer actually pays. Such is US healthcare
Wait until you see how much the monthly cost is for a family these days if you’re going through the exchange.
The other fun game is tech doesn’t offer it anymore. I’m in the job hunt and 7 of 10 jobs make you go out of pocket, the next two give you and obscene monthly responsibility so they can say they offer it, and the 10th job has 5000 applicants.
It’s not sustainable.
That’s the goal. The insurance company wants your premiums while keeping the out of pocket so high you find another way to pay, so they don’t have to cough up a dime.
Do those of you in the US understand that this is literally only a thing in the US?
Yes. Unfortunately, we’re stuck with it. No voting people in or out of the system have changed it. No, we’re not content with it, and we’re envious that other places don’t have to deal with this. This isn’t an endorsement of voter apathy, it’s just that any politician using big pharma reform as a part of their campaign are lying or unsuccessful in their efforts.
I definitely share your frustration… That said, there is some progress - see e.g. The price caps on insulin put in place this year, or the ACA reaching a bit further back – and I think it’s worth recognizing (and recognizing how we got it). Still a very long way to go and it’s an uphill battle unfortunately.
True. Thank you for that.
Most of us do but unfortunately only about half of us are under the impression that other systems are better and more sustainable. Entrenched financial interests run our government and a large portion of those entrenched interests made their fortunes from this medical system
Those who don’t mostly seem to assume that every other country is still doing bloodletting and that America is the only place with MRI machines. Those that understand that’s not the case will probably say something about wait times.
Two-thirds but one third has oversized voting power.
Yes. But it’s a little difficult to get healthcare from a different country.
Recently had to buy Paxlovid. Pharmacy: “it is expensive and your insurance doesn’t cover it. Will be $1500.” Me: “I don’t know.” Pharmacy: “Wait. If you go to the Pfizer website you can get a coupon.” Me: “ok” (Looks up website and gets coupon on my phone. Paxcess Patient Support Program.) Pharmacy: “let me check now. Oh, free!”
Please make it all make sense.
Meanwhile over in Europe - went to the doctor in spring as a cough didn’t go away for ages. As suspected nothing he could do much - irritated throat, and just at the time when cold season was giving way for allergy season. So he prescribed some nose spray - and asked if he should also add some antihistamine to the prescription to save me a few eur (didn’t check, but it probably is single digits. That stuff is cheap)
Yeah I have terrible allergies and went to a new doctor, he couldn’t do much but I mentioned I use an over the counter nasal spray for $40. He’s like oh, let me write you a prescription and now I get a prescription one for free in Canada. Too bad my allergy pills aren’t covered though but those are still an affordable price at least.
Shit when I have coughs that go too long I just keep coughing.
As a hospice worker, please don’t let stuff like that go unaddressed if at all possible.
Oh trust me the doctors don’t care. Went to the doctor twice already and got sent off after marking me down for general anxiety and possible sleep apnea.
I had the exact same experience.
Your lucky your pharmacy tech recommended the manufacturer coupon. My wife was the only one at her pharmacy that did that
Are the other people she works with actually evil or what? I can’t imagine not begging everyone who came in with a Paxlovid prescription to do that.
Likely one of those things where if you use it too much you lose it.
South Park, very relevant and funny to a scary point…
It just means some other poor sucker has to pay more. Not that it’s her fault, it’s just the fucked up health care system.
I have a medicine that is $1650 with insurance, copay is $60. Or, rung without insurance and the discount card, it’s $0.
Medicine pricing is utterly a scam.
Exactly this. The only annoying part is that it then doesn’t count toward your deductable and out of pocket maximum. It’s crazy how nominally $1k+ medicines become like $30 when you pay without insurance.
Yeah dude I have dry eyes. A 3-month supply of my eye drops is $2700 out of pocket, but there’s this magical card that makes it zero. WTF.
It’s actually a pretty clever scheme by drug companies to foist the cost of medicine development AND supplying uninsured people onto insurance companies (and from there, the cost is passed on to people with insurance). I just don’t understand how it’s legal, or why the insurance companies - who are supposed to have such great collective bargaining power - accept this status quo.
I have noticed that it only seems to happen with very expensive, very recently developed drugs which are not yet part of the insurance companies recommended therapies, and they typically require a prior authorization (special approval based on the doctor stating there is a medical necessity for this, and only this, drug).
It’s actually a pretty clever scheme by drug companies to foist the cost of medicine development AND supplying uninsured people onto insurance companies (and from there, the cost is passed on to people with insurance).
Hey now. You forgot that research for 99% of novel drugs discovered this century was funded in at least equal portions by public grants (paid for via taxes). So, the drug companies are really triple-dipping there.
My infusions are 10k. It gets cut by half for insurance. The drug company has like 20k in credits set aside per patient. They pay $10 of my $15 copay with that.
It’s ridiculous.
If you just need to hydrate your eyes, chances are your drops are just salted water
They’re repurposed Borg nanobots in saline solution.
TBH that would absolutely be worth $2700 to me.
American health insurance is gambling
The involvement of actuaries is a dead giveaway.
All insurance is. So are warranties.
:::The house always wins.:::
The fact that the US is the only major industrialized nation without some from of a universal healthcare system is supremely fucked up…
I legit think it’s way too late to implement universal healthcare because the entire food industry would have to change also.
Interesting take. I’ve never heard anyone connect the two. How do you mean?
A lot of the food in the US has chemicals that are banned in other countries that have universal healthcare. The food companies spin millions on research and development to make the food literally addicting. Also our portion sizes are insanely huge. When the other countries have to pay for the healthcare of their citizens, they’re going to make damn sure the food is healthier.
Excellent point. I like it.
And hate it because it’s true. Bastards.Honestly, everyone always pretends like America is the best, but were so painfully behind with so many things…
Who does, Hollywood movies? Life isn’t a movie.
The Republicans exist y’know…
Who pretends america is the best? It leads in some metrics. Other countries lead on others. Quality of life is high for most but not all, comparitavely. However, there is more inequality and poorer healthcare. Even healthcare for the wealthy is expensive for little benefit compared to poorer countries.
I really don’t feel like the quality of life is high in the US. How is that measured? Affordable healthcare? Well paid jobs? Affordable healthy produce? Access to public transport? Good infrastructure? Little wealth disparity? Access to education? Can someone tell me which of these the US leads in?
It leads in some metrics.
Oh, the irony.
Other Americans mainly…
I once heard a european say we eat like we have free healthcare. No we don’t. We eat like we have a government with more accountability to monied interests than to our health, a food industry that profits from us being compelled to overeat cheaply produced foods, and a healthcare system that profits from chronic illness and sudden misfortune. Oh yeah, this onion’s got layers, and it’s rotting from the inside-out.
In fact, I think a genuine effort behind universal healthcare would involve the government suddenly caring a lot more about industry in general growing profits by running things as cheap and dirty as they have been and, in a way, passing their costs onto the general population.
I work in health insurance administration. I can confirm health insurance companies are bullshit.
I had a similar experience when paying out of pocket when a former employer offered really shitty healthcare. Turned an outrageous price into something minuscule just by them entering in some info on my behalf.
I take a med that’s $40/month after insurance which isn’t that bad for such a specific medication, but the discount card from the manufacturer cuts it down to $5/month.
GoodRx or something like it was used. Welcome to the man in the middle scam that makes people think they’re getting a good deal when in reality, they pay for insurance but insurance makes it so costly to use their insurance that people have to pay for it out of pocket or with an HSA but can’t apply the cost to their annual deductible. This is a win win for insurance companies and patients get screwed. I hate the US healthcare system so much from spending time interacting with it from the perspective of work and personally.
There’s a good chance that they were not actually eligible for that discount card. I recall using one once while I didn’t have insurance and I believe they were specifically for people who had no insurance. But you know… The pharmacist probably doesn’t care.
