I just want to join in to remind everyone that multiple things can be true at the same time.
The DNC/Biden can and should be doing better.
We only have 2 options for president. It will be one of the two main candidates because that is how the system works. Don’t pretend it doesn’t. You either vote for one of those two or you are ok with either.
We should be pressuring Biden to do more about both Ukraine and Gaza. Ending both conflicts and getting aid to people.
Choosing to vote for a 3rd party to protest Biden’s response to Gaza/Israel is only going to help Trump in the short term. Yes, long term Biden and DNC may notice their total votes going down, but in the short term it will put Trump in the Whitehouse and now what? What did you accomplish if the DNC realizes they fucked up, but can’t do anything about it because Trump is now a dictator?
Politics is a slow moving thing. Too many people expect some perfect ideal candidate or policy and won’t compromise on anything. That isn’t how it works, you have to compromise and slowly pull things the way you want. It doesn’t happen in one election cycle.
We should have been and should be campaigning and pushing for changes to our system so that we can have better options in the future. We need to push for Ranked Choice Voting (or anything better than FPTP). And voting in local level elections to make small changes across the country. Term limits. Campaign finance reforms. Etc etc. because until we get a new system we effectively can’t just vote for who we want or it doesn’t do anything more than a fart in a hurricane.
I see a lot of people who are saying they will not vote for Biden because the Gaza/Israel issue. Which I completely understand. But the two truths you have to accept in doing so is that you will not be complicit in the genocide. But you will be complicit if Trump wins. Both can be true. You decide which one you would rather see. If you don’t want Trump then the only option is a vote for Biden. And until we reform our voting system we don’t have viable 3rd parties and pretending we do is just delusional. Look at every election for the last hundred years and you will see enough proof. It’s not ideal, but it is reality. **Accept it **so we can change it together.
Politics is a slow moving thing. Too many people expect some perfect ideal candidate or policy and won’t compromise on anything. That isn’t how it works, you have to compromise and slowly pull things the way you want. It doesn’t happen in one election cycle.
It took fifty years of consistent Evangelical support, along with their advantage of low population density, to get to a point where Roe was overturned.
I would add that there ARE things you can do to help stop the genocide, that are not refusing to vote. I absolutely believe that the demonstrations, protest votes, calls to congresspeople, and so on, are part of what’s behind the big changes to the US’s Israel policy recently (sanctions on settlers, pause in the weapons shipments, stuff like that - that’s nowhere near enough and no excuse for Biden’s support for Israel during the “war” and before it, but also, nothing ANYWHERE near that has happened in 75 years of consistently war-criminal support by the US for Israel).
All that stuff makes a difference and can help stop the genocide. Refusing to vote does nothing to stop the genocide and risks putting someone in office who is much much worse (actively wants to kill more Palestinians.)
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you’re a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
We either vote in a way that prevents a fascist from regaining power–voting Biden–or we vote in a way that makes it more likely that fascist gains power again–voting for anyone else.
Period end of story, thats the end game. A vote for Biden is a vote for democracy, any other vote is a vote for fascism.
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you’re a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
Hey as long as we’re jeering at this guy, it’s notable that he claimed that one good thing about living in the USSR was that unlike the modern day US, people weren’t one interaction with the legal system away from having their life destroyed. Which is a pretty odd thing to say.
Odd and inaccurate but probably a sign of a bad faith actor imo. Lol, what regular person is going around supporting the USSR at this point in history, lol. How dumb.
Yeah. It could just be that they are a leftist who just doesn’t have much at all of a factual understanding of 20th century history in any respect, and is substituting an overall rosy picture of anything non Western instead of even the broadest of broad strokes of factual statements and understanding
But… it could also be someone who didn’t have a Western education with its notable gaps in what we wanna admit happened, and instead had a different education with a different set of notable gaps on what we wanna admit happened, such that it didn’t even occur to them that praising the USSR’s justice system would be a totally bizarre thing to say from the perspective of being supposedly a Westerner talking to another Westerner.
Do you want to feel good about your choice or do you want your choice to make a small difference?
I want wars and genocides and murders and suffering and death and sickness to be minimal or zero. I want my fellow humans to be happy and healthy and thrive. I want my labor and work to be a positive thing for society and also benefit me fairly. I want to be a part of ensuring the ecosystem doesn’t collapse. I want to learn from others and I want to be able to teach others. And I have a feeling you agree with me on those things.
But I also am approaching this from reality. And I am acknowledging that with our voting system as it is today, you can either vote for 1 of 2 candidates or you don’t care who wins and are complicit with their choices the next 4 years. That is simply reality.
But I also agree with you that ideally we could vote for not-genocide. I want that so badly. But we have to have a viable means to do that first. So let’s work together and push for a system where our voices can be heard and can make a difference. In the meantime I’d rather see Biden in office which gives us a chance for those things vs Trump which has said and demonstrated he will try to end it.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m trying to make the point of reality vs ideal. And we aren’t at ideal yet, so we need to work toward it.
You sound reasonable, truly. BUT, I have zero tolerance for genocide. I don’t think that is an extreme position. I couldn’t sleep at night because I rationalized genocide. It is that bad. I wish more people would do the same.
The G reens and Cornell West are good choices. I like West more but it’s looking like the Greens are the ones that will be centered around so let’s go for Jill Stein.
This is their plan if they win, it’s in the open, and it’s the end of Democracy in the United States.
Do you want to not vote?
If you don’t vote you might not ever vote again.
Even if you aren’t lgbtq it’s highly unlikely that you don’t know someone who isn’t. They will suffer first.
Know any women? They’ll lose control over their bodies, thier periods monitored by the state
You like having sex? Don’t like getter her pregnant though? Hope that you like pilling out because say goodbye to condoms. Actually that’s a sin to spill your seed so you’re going to jail for that too.
Say that you actually want to have a baby? Maybe you waited to do it, but now you’re having trouble? Say goodbye to invitro fertilization. That’s not God’s way. If he wanted you to have a baby he would have made it happen. Clearly something is wrong with you. You’re defective and must be bad.
Oh, you call God by a different name or don’t believe?
Sucks, you’re going to need some corrective education. You Heathen!
It’s literally good to be A Handmaid’s Tale.
But stand by your principles.
Maybe it won’t happen here.
But what if it does?
When God Emperor Trump jails his enemies.
Suspends the constitution.
“Leader for life, I like the sound of that.”
I just want to join in to remind everyone that multiple things can be true at the same time.
The DNC/Biden can and should be doing better.
We only have 2 options for president. It will be one of the two main candidates because that is how the system works. Don’t pretend it doesn’t. You either vote for one of those two or you are ok with either.
We should be pressuring Biden to do more about both Ukraine and Gaza. Ending both conflicts and getting aid to people.
Choosing to vote for a 3rd party to protest Biden’s response to Gaza/Israel is only going to help Trump in the short term. Yes, long term Biden and DNC may notice their total votes going down, but in the short term it will put Trump in the Whitehouse and now what? What did you accomplish if the DNC realizes they fucked up, but can’t do anything about it because Trump is now a dictator?
Politics is a slow moving thing. Too many people expect some perfect ideal candidate or policy and won’t compromise on anything. That isn’t how it works, you have to compromise and slowly pull things the way you want. It doesn’t happen in one election cycle.
We should have been and should be campaigning and pushing for changes to our system so that we can have better options in the future. We need to push for Ranked Choice Voting (or anything better than FPTP). And voting in local level elections to make small changes across the country. Term limits. Campaign finance reforms. Etc etc. because until we get a new system we effectively can’t just vote for who we want or it doesn’t do anything more than a fart in a hurricane.
I see a lot of people who are saying they will not vote for Biden because the Gaza/Israel issue. Which I completely understand. But the two truths you have to accept in doing so is that you will not be complicit in the genocide. But you will be complicit if Trump wins. Both can be true. You decide which one you would rather see. If you don’t want Trump then the only option is a vote for Biden. And until we reform our voting system we don’t have viable 3rd parties and pretending we do is just delusional. Look at every election for the last hundred years and you will see enough proof. It’s not ideal, but it is reality. **Accept it **so we can change it together.
Oh Trump would accelerate the genocide.
He has already said that they’re taking too long and the Gaza strip makes for great beachfront property.
With Biden, at least the Palestinians might get a country of their own.
With Trump? They’ll be buried under the condos overlooked by the Trump Tower.
It took fifty years of consistent Evangelical support, along with their advantage of low population density, to get to a point where Roe was overturned.
Politics isn’t slow: It’s glacial.
I would add that there ARE things you can do to help stop the genocide, that are not refusing to vote. I absolutely believe that the demonstrations, protest votes, calls to congresspeople, and so on, are part of what’s behind the big changes to the US’s Israel policy recently (sanctions on settlers, pause in the weapons shipments, stuff like that - that’s nowhere near enough and no excuse for Biden’s support for Israel during the “war” and before it, but also, nothing ANYWHERE near that has happened in 75 years of consistently war-criminal support by the US for Israel).
All that stuff makes a difference and can help stop the genocide. Refusing to vote does nothing to stop the genocide and risks putting someone in office who is much much worse (actively wants to kill more Palestinians.)
Very well said!
This kind of thinking is how you end up with only two options.
A third option emerges when enough people say “I am not voting for either of those two”.
Or, it means you’re not okay with either.
You will be ok voting for genocide. Gotcha
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you’re a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
Which is it?
We JUST explained this all to you, Zoolander. Like a moment ago. Like JUST now.
No, you think you did but you spoke in circles.
Dude just take the L
Internet Ws and Ls are pointless.
We either vote in a way that prevents a fascist from regaining power–voting Biden–or we vote in a way that makes it more likely that fascist gains power again–voting for anyone else.
Period end of story, thats the end game. A vote for Biden is a vote for democracy, any other vote is a vote for fascism.
You will be okay enabling genocide+. Gotcha.
Not voting for Biden supports Trump, who will be even worse regarding Gaza. So either you’re a troll, an idiot, or actively want to make genocide worse?
Which is it?
Did you reply to the wrong person?
Yes. I meant to do the person above you.
Another idiot to block. Thanks
Ahh the old fingers in your ears method. Favorite tactic of the ignorant and weak.
Hey as long as we’re jeering at this guy, it’s notable that he claimed that one good thing about living in the USSR was that unlike the modern day US, people weren’t one interaction with the legal system away from having their life destroyed. Which is a pretty odd thing to say.
Odd and inaccurate but probably a sign of a bad faith actor imo. Lol, what regular person is going around supporting the USSR at this point in history, lol. How dumb.
Yeah. It could just be that they are a leftist who just doesn’t have much at all of a factual understanding of 20th century history in any respect, and is substituting an overall rosy picture of anything non Western instead of even the broadest of broad strokes of factual statements and understanding
But… it could also be someone who didn’t have a Western education with its notable gaps in what we wanna admit happened, and instead had a different education with a different set of notable gaps on what we wanna admit happened, such that it didn’t even occur to them that praising the USSR’s justice system would be a totally bizarre thing to say from the perspective of being supposedly a Westerner talking to another Westerner.
I have a theory which one it is
Oh look a stupid person
Voting for Joe?
Genocide Joe? then yes, these cucks will
^ Donald Trump approves this message.
I mean this in the kindest way possible:
Do you want to feel good about your choice or do you want your choice to make a small difference?
I want wars and genocides and murders and suffering and death and sickness to be minimal or zero. I want my fellow humans to be happy and healthy and thrive. I want my labor and work to be a positive thing for society and also benefit me fairly. I want to be a part of ensuring the ecosystem doesn’t collapse. I want to learn from others and I want to be able to teach others. And I have a feeling you agree with me on those things.
But I also am approaching this from reality. And I am acknowledging that with our voting system as it is today, you can either vote for 1 of 2 candidates or you don’t care who wins and are complicit with their choices the next 4 years. That is simply reality.
But I also agree with you that ideally we could vote for not-genocide. I want that so badly. But we have to have a viable means to do that first. So let’s work together and push for a system where our voices can be heard and can make a difference. In the meantime I’d rather see Biden in office which gives us a chance for those things vs Trump which has said and demonstrated he will try to end it.
I’m not trying to be difficult, I’m trying to make the point of reality vs ideal. And we aren’t at ideal yet, so we need to work toward it.
You sound reasonable, truly. BUT, I have zero tolerance for genocide. I don’t think that is an extreme position. I couldn’t sleep at night because I rationalized genocide. It is that bad. I wish more people would do the same.
There’s no vote against genocide. You vote for genocide flavor A, genocide flavor B, or you say you don’t care which flavor of genocide you get.
Arguing against voting tor genocide flavor A means you support genocide flavor B, whether you want to admit it or not.
There is a vote against Genocide you are just pretending it doesn’t exist.
Voting for hopeless losers wastes your vote.
No, what’s actually happening here is that you are just pretending that a third party candidate has a chance of winning in a FPTP voting system.
Just admit that you’ve been campaigning for Trump by trying to get people to not vote for Biden. It’s obvious to anyone paying attention.
Don’t have to admit anything to someone that justifies genocide.
Genocide is literally the only option. The only question is if it’s slow or turbo mode.
And not voting for Biden is Turbo Mode Genocide plus Project 2025 as a sweetener.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
No there is a third option you are just deluding yourself into it not existing.
Just like MAGA Republicans saying they can only vote for Trump.
What’s the third option? We established that it’s not abstaining from voting, or voting 3rd party – so please, enlighten us.
The G reens and Cornell West are good choices. I like West more but it’s looking like the Greens are the ones that will be centered around so let’s go for Jill Stein.
Did you want to try again?
Okay have fun in the internment camps if you’re not a white cismale straight Christian conservative.
2016 called they want their Hillary fearmongering back
Remind me, who ended up winning in 2016? It was the 3rd party candidate you backed instead right? And their presidency went swimmingly?
2024 called. They want you to stop spreading propaganda.
She’s eating babies and you can’t tell me different!
Also /s if it isn’t obviously.
No, have you heard about project 2025?
Enlighten yourself:
https://www.project2025.org/
Search through that, if you still want to not vote after reading that, at least you’re making an informed choice.
Though, you’re complicit in genocide if you don’t vote. Trump will bulldoze Gaza at the earliest convenience.
You’re trying to talk your way out of hell. There is NO reason that can make me vote yes to genocide. What about that can you not get?
You people REALLY need a new bit. This one is old and tired.
Why would I care what you think?
Not voting lets Trump do the genocide instead.
Voting is literally the least effective form of civil engagement.
But at least voting for Biden you’re maybe not going to see project 2025 come to pass.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=op0yk50uMlQ
This is their plan if they win, it’s in the open, and it’s the end of Democracy in the United States.
Do you want to not vote? If you don’t vote you might not ever vote again.
Even if you aren’t lgbtq it’s highly unlikely that you don’t know someone who isn’t. They will suffer first.
Know any women? They’ll lose control over their bodies, thier periods monitored by the state
You like having sex? Don’t like getter her pregnant though? Hope that you like pilling out because say goodbye to condoms. Actually that’s a sin to spill your seed so you’re going to jail for that too.
Say that you actually want to have a baby? Maybe you waited to do it, but now you’re having trouble? Say goodbye to invitro fertilization. That’s not God’s way. If he wanted you to have a baby he would have made it happen. Clearly something is wrong with you. You’re defective and must be bad.
Oh, you call God by a different name or don’t believe? Sucks, you’re going to need some corrective education. You Heathen!
It’s literally good to be A Handmaid’s Tale.
But stand by your principles. Maybe it won’t happen here.
But what if it does?
When God Emperor Trump jails his enemies. Suspends the constitution. “Leader for life, I like the sound of that.”
If voting for genocide let’s you sleep at night. Go for it.