Bernie would of won against trump
Have*
Have course
Bernie have of won against trump
He couldn’t even win against Hillary so I kind of doubt it.
He did win against her. Until the Superdeligates swung the election in favor of where their money and the DNC wanted. I completely hold the DNC torpedoing themselves as the reason for Trump in '16.
Maybe, maybe not but the fact remains he didn’t make whatever deals needed to be made to secure the nomination he was seeking from the party he was seeking it from.
Your analysis of the DNC isn’t incorrect though.
He did win against her. Until the Superdeligates swung the election in favor of where their money and the DNC wanted.
Holy shit, the delusion gets greater with every passing day.
Clinton crushed him, by like 12 percentage points. Millions of votes. Absolutely trounced, and it was clear from the start he was going to lose. You take the superdelegates out, Clinton still wins. You give all of the superdelegates from the districts that Sanders won, Clinton still crushes him. Superdelegates played near zero role in Sanders getting smashed by Clinton, unless you really want to stretch and say their pledging made people vote for her. . .but 12 percentage points of people? Nah. You gotta be crazy to believe that.
I think a lot of young people like myself just wanted him and have felt neglected and disconnected since then. So that’s probably adding to it. But damn I’d still vote for Bernie in a heartbeat today.
Ftr, I voted for him in both 2016 and 2020 and I would vote for him today as well. I just recognize that I’m much further left than the average Democrat, and that this whole “Bernie was robbed!” is as rooted in reality as “Trump was robbed!”
I’m not so sure about this argument, he couldn’t beat Hilary plus the dnc and all that money, if he had though, it would have been Bernie and the dnc and all that money against trump, that’s a different fight.
I agree that in a hypothetical Sanders vs Trump in 2016 Bernie would’ve won.
Seeing what the MAGA cult has become, I’m curious if he would today.
I’ve always felt that he would have delivered against trump in 2016. A paragon of living up to expectations of what our leadership should do at every stage of his life.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2016/02/18/bernie-sanders-and-the-willis-wagon-protests-of-1963/
Pretty sure he’d have gotten the Kennedy treatment if his policies didn’t serve the owner class. But probably in a plausibly deniable way, like a heart attack or such.
Also, let’s face it: America didn’t do anything to Bernie, they did it to themselves…
Debbie Wasserman Schultz did that to America. The primary turnout was a direct result of Bernie’s lack of coverage throughout his campaign.
You mean making him one of the most powerful senators and the longest serving independent senator in the history of the country, as well as a bestselling millionaire author? Boo hoo, I wish America would do that to me.
Waitt a second wasn’t it BLM that went after Sanders in the first place? Because he hadn’t done enough for black people?
And he let them speak while he stepped to the side.
No you’re missing the point, I just thought it was ironic that the woman has BLM in her bio
That “woman” is a famous drag queen. Bob the Drag Queen
Bernie could have won the nomination if he spent his career being friendly with the DNC like Biden and Hillary did instead of taking every opportunity to denigrate them
Then he’d be Biden 2.0 and what’s the fucking point?
Made him a senator?
I’ll bite in case this isn’t trolling. They are likely referring to how people, even those who were fairly liberal, made it seem like Bernie was too far out there to be a valid choice for president.
And I personally agree with that with one caveat not to be a president, but to be electable. While he was popular on the left, I think he would not pull independence/centrist and would lose election.
You left out article “the” in last sentence, comrade.
Blyat!
He polled 7 points better against Trump than Hillary did in 2016. Although that being said, it seems pretty well accepted that the polling was pretty unreliable in 2016.
it seems pretty well accepted that the polling was pretty unreliable in 2016.
That’s true in the sense people believe it and “accept” it…
But it’s not accurate in the respect that polls were/are unreliable.
The margins that predicted a Clinton victory were smaller than margin of error.
Everyone that knew anything about statistics kept trying to point that out, they just kept getting shouted down and accused of being a trump supporter.
Literally the same that’s happening now with current polls.
It’s just people ignoring what doesn’t agree with them, and then refusing to accept responsibility for ignoring all the warning signs.
Maybe a little trolling. I was a Bernie supporter, donor, and volunteer, but I accept that he lost fair and square I am just pretty tired of people feeling the need to relitigate the 2016 primary every 4 years, even though none of the candidates or leadership are currently involved.
It was painful for all of us who poured our heart into his campaign, and I understand that people were frustrated, but at this point picking that scab serves no purpose than to depress voter engagement, which is why I am skeptical that it is being done in good faith. The DNC worked with Bernie after 2016 (I sat on one of the focus groups and filled out several survey) and made a bunch of reforms, but you never hear anything about that for some reason.
What was done to him?
The media went nutty after he looked to have a decent lead up to the primaries so suddenly every story was about how Bernie loves Fidel Castro and communism, even so-called “liberal propaganda” MSNBC had their talking heads going on about how Bernie would quite literally have them executed.
America literally cannot have a president that isn’t right wing or centrist, we’re not allowed to.
Well yeah, but it was more Hillary and the superdelegates (that should be a band) fucking him over.
Yeah it was her turn to sit down.
Immediately following the debates you had Chris Matthews saying Sanders winning would lead to executions in Central Park.
The rhetoric surrounding Bernie in the media was ugly.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/06/positive-2015-media-coverage-for-sanders-trump.html
On the Democratic side, Bernie Sanders spent the first part of 2015 categorized as a likely loser who received very little media attention (indeed, the whole Democratic contest received relatively little attention until it became competitive). But once he gained traction, Bernie got some media buzz, and it wound up giving him the most positive media coverage of any candidate in either party, at least through 2015:
As his poll numbers ticked upward, [Sanders] was portrayed as a “gaining ground” candidate, a favorable storyline buttressed by reports of increasingly large crowds and enthusiastic followers. “The overflow crowds Sanders has been drawing in Iowa and New Hampshire,” said USA Today, “are signs that there is ‘a real hunger’ for a substantive discussion about Americans’ economic anxieties … .” The “real hunger” extended also to journalists, who are drawn to a candidate who begins to make headway against an odds-on favorite.
https://shorensteincenter.org/pre-primary-news-coverage-2016-trump-clinton-sanders/
Sanders’ coverage in 2015 was the most favorable of any of the top candidates, Republican or Democratic. For her part, Hillary Clinton had by far the most negative coverage of any candidate.
Nope. He probably woulda gotten himself assassinated by these fucking capitalists and then we coulda had a proper left wing martyr to galvanize us… Then again, what happened after JFK? oh.
Guess y’all is just run by murderers. go figure
I think you mean Ron Paul.
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Watching all that transpire over years was so heartbreaking. It’s such a rare thing to get a genuinely good politician.
Australia elected someone pretty close to a socialist once. Not really a socialist, but far more left wing than anyone America or Britain has elected in living history, and far more left than anyone Australia has had since.
America organised a coup against his Government. And like, yes, we all know America loves doing coups in foreign countries. But usually it’s countries most Americans would perceive as “third world”. Either a political enemy or a neutral irrelevancy. (To be very clear, I’m not saying they are irrelevant, but that most Americans would think of them as not very significant.) But in 1975 they did it to one of their ostensible closest allies. Because he was too left wing for Ford, Kissinger, and William Colby. (Side note, in looking up who was the director of the CIA at the time, I discovered that Colby was succeeded in that role by…George Bush Sr. They elect literal spies for president??) And because he threatened to close down their spy base.
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Hawke was good, but he also started (greatly accelerated under Keating) our slide towards a neoliberal UK-like “new Labor”.
I was talking about Whitlam.
We’re only socialist for bailouts.
If that were the case, then the banks would all be publicly owned now.
Bailouts aren’t a little bit of socialism or “crony” capitalism - it’s just capitalism. The banks own the factors of production, bought most representatives, and effectively bailed themselves out.
The banks need to die, every single one of them yes all of them.
I think what they’re saying is that we subsidize losses for the rich, but for citizens it’s rugged individualism. Bootstraps and such. The tax dollars are always there to bail out companies or to fight wars, but not to serve the needs of the people.
It’s not possible.
By design, of course.
For those who won’t look it up the takeaway is that when a massively popular, actually left leaning candidate makes it far enough in the race and poses a real threat to the establishment despite the hurdles it has already put in their way in the form of the media and state dictated education that sow hatred of anything remotely socialist, the media will then go in to overdrive to stop them from getting in to power by any means possible.
And it works. Again - because of a combination of no education for critical thinking against the establishment, and a media that serves it.
It’s one of the ways in which the system is rigged to always work in favour of the rich and powerful, and why elections are nothing but a charade (especially in a monarchy) - they will never let us have an equitable and just society that works for all of its members, they have too much to lose, and they would kill us all off in a blink if it protected their status (they already are). The time for fighting back in self defence is long overdue…Sanders isn’t a socialist. His platform is right of where the centrist Justin Trudeau is.
Your comment getting downvoted is pretty dumb, he is absolutely not a socialist. He hasn’t expressed the desire to abolish capitalism and replace it with socialism. He just wants “humane” capitalism. Wanting public healthcare/social safety/a welfare state doesn’t make you a socialist. He’s fine private industry as long as they’re regulated enough/as long as the workers are treated well.
The way Corbyn is spoken about even by some Labour party MPs is grotesque, as if he led some evil regime.
Just shows how politicians with principles and integrity are treated.
lol tell me this has a real source.
The source is actually a photo of a young Bill Gates in the 80s
Yeah but it’s her turn.
“We” didn’t do shit to Bernie…
The wealthy and politically connected fucked over Bernie and every other American like they consistently do. Because Bernie would have actually helped Americans and they’d have another FDR to deal with.
People need to stop thinking it’s D vs R. Both parties look out more for their donors than America, and they have a lot of the same donors. The only explanation for the DNCs actions back to 2016, is they’d rather have trump than a progressive.
trump let’s moderates lower standards, a progressive president means standards would be raised, and no more Republican or “moderate” Dem president.
Bernie could have still won if enough people showed up to vote.
We need to take some responsibility for that
No he couldn’t.
At least according to what a DNC lawyer told a judge when people tried to sue the DNC for rigging the 2016 primary.
Their official defense was essentially “so what if we did? We can do that because primaries are nonbinding and more of a survey”
The same lawyer also argued that there is “no contractual obligation” to prevent advantage or disadvantage between candidates, and that the evenhandedness and impartiality language in the DNC charter is not “self-defining.”
And
We could have—and we could have voluntarily decided that, Look, we’re gonna go into back rooms like they used to and smoke cigars and pick the candidate that way. That’s not the way it was done. But they could have. And that would have also been their right.
Important to point out that the DNC’s lawyers just flat out admitted there that it’s a thing that has happened before.
Lots of people don’t get that for some reason.
What you’ve cited here is a legal argument the DNC used in court as a defendant in a lawsuit. That doesn’t change the fact that Hillary Clinton got more votes than Sanders in 2016, which literally happened. I voted for Sanders and thought he had a better shot at beating Trump, and thought Clinton was a terrible candidate. That doesn’t change the fact that a ton of Democratic voters preferred Clinton. Women in particular were very excited about the possibility of a woman president. I knew a ton of people who voted for her over Sanders and who were excited to do so.
Either way, the superdelegate system that locked in Clinton’s nomination was changed after 2016, yet even after Biden beat Sanders fair and square in 2020 you’d still rather think there’s some grand DNC conspiracy instead of the reality that there just aren’t enough voters supporting your preferred candidate.
They still said “even if he did win, we would run our own guy anyway. Voters and donors be damned.”
Which is still fascist behavior even if you agree with it.
Who is “they” and what did “they” say again?
You’ve read it and you know precisely what they said and what they meant (not that it wasn’t straight forward in the first place.)
Blocking because I don’t owe my time to MAGA types whether blue or red. Take your disingenuous bullshit elsewhere.
What are you even talking about about? I never once ever heard someone say (what I can only assume you’re saying since you haven’t clarified anything) that if Sanders won the primary “they” would “still run their own guy.”
That doesn’t change the fact that Hillary Clinton got more votes than Sanders in 2016, which literally happened.
No one said it wasn’t what happened…
That’s not what the lawsuit alleged even…
It said the DNC influenced the primary
And the DNC said “so what, primaries don’t even matter, even if Bernie won we could have just not nominated them”.
It’s not complicated.
When accused of rigging the primary, their response was it’s legal for them to rig it or even just ignore the results.
That’s what “blue no matter who” gets you.
To spell it out perfectly clear (because I’m not replying again):
Not having any standards besides the letter by someone’s name, get you candidates people won’t vote for, which depresses turnout and allows Republicans to become president.
When the DNC acts like this, it makes the pool of democratic voters smaller.
Lol How did they rig it if Hillary got more votes? Get out of your bubble, dude.
Did you just pick a random comment and start reading?
That explains why you’re so confused, everything is difficult to understand when you strip away all context.
So you go try and re-read this thread, and see it that’ll help you figure this out
Says the one stuck repeating bullshit arguments disproven back in 2016. You’re adding random claims onto the facts. Me cutting to the actual events isn’t removing context. Idk how anyone still thinks Bernie had a chance or that it was stolen from him, unless they live in an isolated bubble with other Bernie bros.
I was talking about 2020 where he lost due to poor turnout but okay.
Biden, whose campaign fortunes had suffered from losses in Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada, made a comeback by overwhelmingly winning the South Carolina primary, motivated by strong support from African American voters, an endorsement from South Carolina U.S. Representative Jim Clyburn, as well as Democratic establishment concerns about nominating Sanders.[8] After Biden won South Carolina, and one day before the Super Tuesday primaries, several candidates dropped out of the race and endorsed Biden in what was viewed as a consolidation of the party’s moderate wing. Prior to the announcement, polling saw Sanders leading with a plurality in most Super Tuesday states.[9] Biden then won 10 out of 15 contests on Super Tuesday, beating back challenges from Sanders, Warren, and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, solidifying his lead.[9]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
Most of those “moderates” who dropped out the day before Super Tuesday and endorsed Biden went on to be rewarded with cabinet positions…
If you were running a campaign, and you wanted to win, would you pick 24 hrs before a bunch of states voted to drop out?
Or would you wait another day to see how you did?
Like, this is literally the primary after the DNC said they could interfere in any primary, and you think that was organic that they all dropped at once and endorsed the party favorite right before Super Tuesday?
It went from Sanders being projected to win the most, to Biden getting 10/15.
Do you think Biden and the DNC were ignorant it was going to happen?
You think they told Bernie it was going to happen?
How could anyone expect him to react in 15 states within 24 hrs?
The entire purpose of the superdelegate is to give the DNC overarching influence over the primary process. They are not in favor of the people electing their candidates uninfluenced. They will do whatever is necessary to keep their party as it is.
I caucased for Bernie in Washington for the primary, what a miserable experience. It took all day, the entire event was run by old white ladies in Hillary shirts, they lost the vote count and had to recount several times, etc. I have no confidence that my vote for a Bernie was even counted, and that’s just one location.
I also caucused for Bernie in Washington. He won the district level elections, but lost at the county level elections. Basically my district and the surrounding districts were pretty strongly in favor of him, but the surrounding areas were not.
See now that seems fishy to me. I know Washington gets pretty red outside the city and the counties with the major metro areas swing pretty far east to incorporate those areas, BUT back before the spectacle of Trump I knew and worked with a bunch of Republicans who actually genuinely liked Bernie. Now of course Republicans probably aren’t participating in the Democratic primary caucuses, but I still find it kind of hard to believe Dems in the city wanted Bernie but country Dems wanted Hillary? No matter how much time passes I’m not buying it.
it’s also completely possible that your Republican friends “liked” Bernie in the same way that they “like” Carter: they recognize that he’s a good guy personally, but dislike his politics enough to not vote for him.
Apt name.
No they liked that he was an honest politician who wasn’t afraid to speak his mind. Then Trump kind of ran away with that and that’s what they like about Trump now even though it’s all BS.
Also I never said they were my friends.
I don’t understand the whole “he speaks his mind” appeal with trump. Drunk people speak their minds too, but most of what they say is pointless, just like with trump. I prefer someone who puts their thoughts together into intelligible messages, rather than babbling their entire stream of consciousness.
Bernie would have actually helped Americans and they’d have another FDR to deal with.
The President isn’t a dictator. Bernie wouldn’t have been able to do anything because of the Republican controlled Congress.
He wouldn’t have been able to do anything because of Congress, period. Neither party wants the things that Bernie wants. He’s a socialist, and both major parties are very much pro-corporate capitalists.
Ever heard of a National Referendum ? If Bernie as POTUS saw that Senate and Congress can’t act in the Peoples best interests, he could hold National Referendum votes to determine the popular vote from the people. It would bypass Congress and Senate and even SCOTUS will be impotent to go against the POTUS or the popular vote.
It takes Courage and Conviction of a strong leader to hold the vote to the people to pass legislation through a plebiscite.
He would have been the leader of the Democratic party… And as such he could have made some serious changes to that party and who is allowed to be in it… Possibly even giving us an actual people’s party
Because throwing out half the party to fit The Leader’s vision is working out so well for the RNC
It is if you’re Trump or a maga
Ol’ “both sides are the same” givesomefucks commenting on a “Biden is the devil” return2ozma post
They are NOT the same, but failing to realize they’re BOTH enemies means your dumb, fucking STUOID ass will fail to realize you’re relying on ENEMIES to fight yourr battles against R’s. Which is … say it with me… fucking STUPID. Interesting how much you want to be stupid. Sad.
You’re going to win a lot of hearts and minds with that rhetoric lol. More importantly, where did you derive any of that about my political beliefs based on what I said
I’m not aiming to win hearts and minds. I’m making a basic observation even a child should understand. The real question is, why are you more foolish than a child?
I hope you’re getting paid to post this stuff, otherwise the projection here is off the charts
I’m sorry basic reality confuses you. No wonder you don’t see a problem with choosing lesser evils.
Notice how I have NEVER ONCE said, “do not vote blue in 2024”, but all your stupid ass hears is that. You are biased against logic all the same as conservatives. Pathetic.
Are you an alt account for one of the two people I posted about? If not you have a serious case of main character syndrome to think I was talking about you before you were even involved in this conversation lol
The two sides of a coin are different, but they’re still the same coin.
The only explanation for the DNCs actions back to 2016, is they’d rather have trump than a progressive.
The DNC has spent over 44 million dollars helping pro-trump Republicans win their primaries over moderate Republicans, so that they can point at the Republican party and say “look, there are no moderate Republicans left”. The DNC is just as guilty as the trump Republicans for radicalizing the Republican party.
That’s a preeeeeeetty big stretch. I presume this is what you’re talking about?
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2022/07/democrats-spend-millions-on-republican-primaries/
Yes, that’s what I’m talking about. What about my statement is a stretch? They’re trying to promote radicalized candidates because they believe they’ll be easier to defeat. It’s underhanded, and erodes voter confidence. It’s also limiting voter choices, attempting to solidify the Democratic party as the only viable choice for candidates, which further erodes our democracy. Citizens deserve choices. Locking elections to a choice between a radical Trumper and the DNC doesn’t benefit the country as a whole, it only benefits the DNC. They’ve received considerable criticism from members of both parties over these actions, criticisms which I believe are valid.
Edit: I re-read my original comment and I concede it’s “a stretch”, or rather just outright inaccurate that the Democrats are just as guilty as trump Republicans for radicalizing the party. But their actions make them complicit.
Bernie Sanders forgives nobody because it’s nobody’s fault except rich oligarchs who made sure media didn’t cover him as much as others so pitiable non-voting, progressive, or moderate working class didn’t know who was also great. Because Hilary would’ve been one of the best politicians on record to be President of the USA despite 20 years of smear campaigns effecting even the most progressive of us despite how much they’d like to think they weren’t.
In the end a large swath of our population is at the whimsy of media at no small fault to republicans destroying public schools and oligarchs making even Lemmings think Democrats are a monolith that doesn’t INCLUDE THE PROGRESSIVE PARTY.
Bernie Sanders firmly endorsed Biden in 2020 after dropping out. Never bothered running now. And endorsed Hilary in 2016 just like she would’ve done for him.
Funny how this has happened to two Vermont politicians since the year 2000.
YEEEAH!!!
I thought that was a dumb thing for the media to latch on to at the time, but now I know why they forced the “controversy” anyways.
Just looking at all his policy stances in 2004 makes me so sad… Instead we got another term of Bush.
