Seen a lot of posts on Lemmy with vegan-adjacent sentiments but the comments are typically very critical of vegan ideas, even when they don’t come from vegans themselves. Why is this topic in particular so polarising on the internet? Especially since unlike politics for example, it seems like people don’t really get upset by it IRL

  • BrikoX@lemmy.zip
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    5 months ago

    From what I have seen, it more stems from the activism vegans are engaged in more than the actual veganism.

    • CalciumDeficiency@lemmy.worldOP
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      5 months ago

      I think there’s nothing wrong with explaining your ideas and why you believe them to those willing to listen, but I can see why pushy activism for any cause can get annoying quickly. There are often Jehovah’s witnesses outside my local supermarket, for example, but they only give you a pamphlet if you specifically approach them

      • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        It’s not just pushy, it’s judgemental and vitriolic

        Oh, you eat meat, murderer? Your shoes are made from the skins of defenseless creatures. The sugar you’re so callously adding to your coffee was processed with ground-up bones, you unredeemable monster.

        Even the arguments for veganism that aren’t built on animal cruelty still take on an air of moral superiority. Don’t you care about the planet and future generations? How dare you trade carbon emissions for the temporary comfort of a bacon cheeseburger!

        The vegan movement has always been associated with anger and contempt, even if it is justified.

        • Feyd@programming.dev
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          5 months ago

          In my experience it’s usually more like: Them: here have some of this meat thing Me: No thanks Them: why not it’s really good try some Me: i don’t eat meat Them: but why? Me: to reduce animal cruelty and environmental harm Them: wow how dare you be so judgy

          I’m not really sure how I’m supposed to not offend this type of person in this situation and frankly I don’t think it’s my fault or my problem they’re offended. My theory is that that agree with my reasons but rather than change or live with the cognitive dissonance they just lash out at anyone that reminds them they could be living more ethically even if they basically MAKE them say it.

          Blaming vegans for that is bullshit, frankly

          • fishos@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            Some people see “to reduce animal cruelty” as judgy because that’s just how nature is. The moral superiority comes from you acting like you’re somehow above everyone and everything else. It’s entirely in your wording and the implications that if you eat meat, you enjoy animal suffering vs seeing it as a natural outcome of nature.

        • spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works
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          5 months ago

          In my experience, your first sentence sums it up nicely.

          They assume a moral high ground because they’ve adopted a diet that is generally deemed healthier and better for the environment (I don’t always agree with this).

          But unless they’re also doing all the things we could all do better (e.g. not buying new, not upgrading the the latest and greatest, not taking 40 minute showers, not eating out every second day), they’re only somewhat less guilty of environmental damage than the average person, but they’re taking a generally undeserved “holier than thou” position and then shoving it down your throat. This isn’t everyone, and I don’t really care what you eat, but these are the vegans that get under my skin.

        • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
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          5 months ago

          And it’s history stems from religious ideology.

          Edit: oh you downvoters. Go look it up. A woman had a vision from God that said “don’t eat things with faces”. Dead serious - that’s where it started.

          All the sciencey justifications today are post-hoc rationalization.

  • Leviathan@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    I’ve never once in the last decade seen a single vegan post other than recipes. What I do see is constant posts about how “vegans are always throwing it my face/holier than thou”, “I’m gonna eat extra meat because vegans make me feel bad”. I really don’t think vegans are the problem, I think these fools fall for every single piece of beef industry propaganda that comes across their screens.

    • SoNick@kbin.social
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      5 months ago

      Back on reddit there were those who had alerts set every time the word came up across the site, then they’d brigade the fitness and health subreddits with their vegan crew to derail any conversations. It was really annoying. No clue if that’s still a problem because lolreddit

  • ImplyingImplications@lemmy.ca
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    5 months ago

    I’ve been a vegetarian for 15 years. People IRL often do get offended if you tell them you don’t eat meat. I try my best to avoid saying it because it often leads to being lectured about proteins. Everyone suddenly becomes a nutritionist when you explain why you don’t eat meat.

    • ZagamTheVile@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Yeah. I try not to mention it to people if I can avoid it. I work construction and am surrounded by manly men tring to out man each other. I had one guy offer me bear jerkey and got bent out of shape when I declined. He wouldn’t stop. He just kept on me about why I didn’t eat meat. After about an hour of him asking again and again why I don’t eat meat I said “meat’s another word for dick and eating dick is gay”. As problematic as it was, it worked.

      It never cases to amaze me that a 250pound dude with a 40oz soda in one hand and a mouthfull of gas station pizza thinks he has the responsibility to lecture me about nutrition.

      • illi@lemm.ee
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        5 months ago

        “meat’s another word for dick and eating dick is gay”. As problematic as it was, it worked.

        It’s both sad and hillarious that this worked. I wonder if you created a new vegetarian as well

  • lustyargonian@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    Holier than thou attitude from new vegans whose world view changed overnight and cognitive dissonance on the part of non vegan with the need to deflect than to make substantial changes.

  • Drusas@kbin.run
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    5 months ago

    So many vegans in this thread tring to answer the question and getting it completely wrong.

  • Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    Because y’all are fuckin annoying. Good for you on not using animal products. I’m glad you have something you care a lot about. I dont need to hear about it every second of the day though. Vegans IRL generally dont preach about it but online people get on their sop boxes more consistently.

    • Simon Müller@sopuli.xyz
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      5 months ago

      I think what you’re experiencing online is a mix of loud minorities1 and online disinhibition2, not an accurate representation of vegans.

      1: When there exists a minority in XYZ Group that is “louder” than the majority, causing people to associate XYZ group with the minority. 2: The phenomena of people acting out more violently, frequently, or pushy online when compared to being in-person, primarily due to anonymity

  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Usually it’s not veganism, itself. Rather, it’s the vegans.

    Specifically the annoyingly loud, self-righteous, insists-everyone-must-join-them vegans.

    Unfortunately, most people only really see this sort of vegan- rather than the more common, average sort of person who happens to also be vegan.

    • platypus_plumba@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      I do think they are annoying but a necessary type of annoying that will help humanity progress. The same type of annoying as people who claimed women had rights and African Americans were not inferior.

      Humans treat this planet like shit, we have zero respect for living beings and the ecosystems. Anyone who gets angry if someone calls them out for supporting animal abuse is just immature and selfish. Like they’ll just deny they are doing something wrong.

      I’ll probably never stop eating meat until stuff like Beyond Meat becomes mainstream. But I won’t pretend I’m not a straight up asshole to these animals for supporting their torture and murder. The times I’ve been called out I’ve embraced it instead of denying the obvious.

      In 150 years humans will look back in shame at what we did to those animals.

      • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        Pointing out the consequences; the climate damage, all that is one thing. Respectful conversation.

        Actively tossing out people’s lunches isn’t going to convince anyone of anything, though. Suddenly that person is now the face of vegans for everyone in the office.

        Protests, sure. But when it comes to interpersonal relationships…. Yeah. Doesn’t help.

        • platypus_plumba@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          Ah yeha, agreed. If they get physical, fuck that. I’m sure that’s just like 1% or less of vegans. We can’t judge a whole group for the actions of a few.

    • WldFyre@lemm.ee
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      5 months ago

      I don’t think you’ve understood the arguments for veganism lol

      Of course proponents of a position/philosophy/political stace also subscribe to those beliefs. There are not many misogynists arguing in favor of feminism.

        • LoudWaterHombre@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          5 months ago

          So just kill yourself then, it’s literally that easy? Or are you suggesting to kill other people so you can keep enjoying your McTasty? Carnists are weird AF

          • postmateDumbass@lemmy.world
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            5 months ago

            You have restricted your diet, yet the hatred pores from your vegtable fueled/addled brain.

            I think you have proven my point.

            Thank you.

            • LoudWaterHombre@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              5 months ago

              How have I proven your point? Your argument was to get rid of people, I just guessed you also offer yourself up? Otherwise what makes you think you can suggest to kill other people?

  • kava@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Veganism is more or less a 1st world phenomenon. Most humans, especially in the past, did not have the luxury to choose what they could eat. They ate what they could get and if they got access to meat and animal products they ate it because it has high nutritional and caloric value. Even the vegetarian Indians who don’t eat meat foe religious purposes still have eggs, milk, etc.

    It feels disconnected with the human struggle.

    In addition, it’s sort of meaningless in the grand scheme of things. OK. You don’t eat meat to protect domesticated cows. In reality, those cows would not exist in the first place. So really, you’re advocating to eliminate the species of domesticated cattle.

    In addition, our modern society requires massive amounts of energy which is often generated by fossil fuels. Even if a society uses 100% solar, they’re importing products from countries like China that burn coal.

    So you’re pumping out carbon emissions that will inevitably result in mass extinctions anyway. It seems like a meaningless protest against the inevitable. You say let’s exterminate the cows to save them from suffering on one hand and with the other drive to work talking on your iPhone with the A/C turned up- contributing to the destruction of infinitely more animals.

    The only real way to stop is for everyone to give up every modern luxury and live in a log cabin in the woods. And for the vast majority of the population to die off.

    It just feels like pissing into the void but doing so with moral superiority.

    Having said all that, I empathize with many vegans. But those are some thoughts on why people may look down on vegans.

      • kava@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        I looked through out of curiosity and I believe you can say with a bit of a stretch that I hit about 3.

        I’m never going to go vegan. I was raised in a part of South America with a very strong cattle / meat culture. I don’t want to live without nice steaks every week.

        If that means some animal has to live in what’s essentially slavery then it’s the price I’m willing to pay.

        Just like we’re both willing to live with poor 3rd worlders mining lithium and cobalt for us in abysmal conditions so that we can communicate on our fancy electronic devices.

        The system is a pyramid. Is it our fault we were born near the top? Reminds me of the part in the Bible, the rich man comes up to Jesus and asks him what he should do to get into heaven

        Jesus says “sell all of your belongings, give the money to charity, and follow me”. What’d the rich man do? He cried.

        The point is that people wanna be good and ethical but don’t actually want to give up quality of life. It’s not just veganism, it’s for everything. Capitalist/imperialist exploitation, climate change, etc.

        Try to lead by example, sell your stuff and follow Jesus.

  • FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today
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    5 months ago

    What they really hate is being guilt tripped into changing their dietary habits.

    EDIT: To be clear, I support veganism. I’m saying the people who react apprehensively to veganism are choosing willfully ignorant bliss. To choose a high meat diet is to deny reason and give into what the animal in us wants.

  • Nougat@fedia.io
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    5 months ago

    It’s a first world hill to die on, and many of the people who espouse veganism are only able to do so because of their own privilege.

    It’s a combination of smugness and “I’m better than you” and the lack of awareness that everyone had and continues to benefit from a world that has always used animal products. The Industrial Revolution basically ran on steam engines and leather belts, for example.

    I have absolutely no problem with the idea that using fewer animal products and eating less meat is a good idea. I also recognize that feeding the world’s growing population is probably going to involve insects being more widely used as a food source.

    • SporeAdic@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      Vegans literally are suggesting solutions to the growing population because in almost every situation, it is much more efficient by land and water use for people to eat plant-based rather than meat. It’s only a “first world hill to die on” if you think poor people can’t eat plants. Sorry but I don’t think this is a very accurate take…

    • jeffw@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      What privilege? Meat is the most expensive food out there. Eating rice and beans isn’t really showing privilege

      • Bonehead@kbin.social
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        5 months ago

        Those aren’t the vegans that most people are talking about. Being poor and having to eat vegan is different from being vegan because you want to stand out from everyone else with your vegan black bean soy burger with vegan cheese on a vegan sprouted whole wheat bun. If you can afford the overpriced “vegan” versions of typically non-vegan foods, and complain about your struggles being vegan, that’s privilege.

        When you’re poor, you don’t advertise the fact that you’re eating vegan. You just make rice and beans because it’s the absolute cheapest food available. You’ll take meat and non-vegan when it’s available. But at the very least, you’ll survive on rice and beans. It’s generally not something that people are proud of.

          • Bonehead@kbin.social
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            5 months ago

            I didn’t say that. I said if you’re buying the vegan substitutes and advertising that fact, that makes you privileged. I’ve seen it many times. There are even some in this post. People that eat vegan because they have limited choices don’t advertise it. People that want to feel superior over others will express how much of a vegan they are.

              • Bonehead@kbin.social
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                5 months ago

                Congratulations, you’re finally getting it. They are two different people. There are people that eat vegan because they have no choice. Those people are not privileged. There are people that call themselves vegan and make sure everyone knows they are vegan. Those are the vegans the original comment was talking about, which someone took offense to. That’s why I pointed out the difference.

                It took a little effort, but at least you got there.

  • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network
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    5 months ago

    If you accept that there are moral/ethical problems with eating meat (contribution to climate change, health concerns, animals being killed and eaten, whatever), and choose to eat meat anyway, and encounter a vegan, what has to happen?

    You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you’re making a worse choice. Most people are cowards and protect the ego at any cost. Rather than shrugging and saying “yeah, i should eat less meat. Good for you taking the high road”, which requires accepting that you’re not being the best, you can instead grab onto any reasons why no it’s really them that sucks. That’s easier, more comfortable, and doesn’t require any painful introspection or changes.

    It’s the same mechanism when people get mad at cyclists, pedestrians, people who go to the gym, people who don’t shop at Walmart, whatever. They’re doing something that makes you feel bad in comparison. Most people are terrible at that and will lash out instead of doing anything productive.

    Alternatively, or maybe additionally, people are really tribal, and once they adopt the idea that vegans (or cyclists, or people driving small cars, or people wearing sandals, whatever) are in the outgroup, then they enjoy being hostile to them.

    People are ego driven emotional morons. All of us. Me, too. It’s terrible.

    • cmhe@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      You can accept that they are making a better choice, but then you have to accept that you’re making a worse choice.

      No, people don’t dislike vegans or vegetarians because of their choices, they dislike them because they lord their, what they think “better” choice over others. And create in- and out- groups via labeling.

      Being vegan or vegetarian means that you have to spend more money in the store to buy food, because meat is heavily subsidized compared to vegetarian options. Also, because being vegan/vegetarian is not the default, many products are overpriced.

      Another point is that a healthy and varied diet using only vegan or vegetarian food doesn’t come so natural, so you have to research this more, which means you have to spend time, which again is a commodity.

      So it is not just about good or bad, it is also about privilege and class. So people should not go around making statements about other people making “worse” choices.

    • Treczoks@lemmy.world
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      5 months ago

      You can accept that they are making a better choice,

      That’s exactly where it starts. You simply assume that vegans are the better people. And then you preach. That’s exactly what people dislike in vegans and similar people.

  • sparkle@lemm.ee
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    5 months ago

    The same reason people hate leftists, feminists, trans athletes, “gamer girls”, people on welfare, blacks, etc. An image the right cultivated of the group, out of convenient easily-hateable annoying people in it that they could use to create a generalization/stereotype out of. It’s something that’s able to happen to any group, I could portray any hobbyist or activist in this way the same exact way as these “annoying” groups are portrayed, but the right is particularly willing to just flat out lie, slander, and cheat their way into making countercultural/anti-status-quo groups look as absurd as possible, to the point that the majority of the population falls for it (even those that don’t consider themselves to be conservative).

    I’ll make a comparison. Conservative/“anti-sjw” thumbnails often have a picture of some angry-looking rainbow haired woman, usually the same few, in order to be like “look how irrational and crazy these feminazis are, she must hate men so much” and like 4 out of 5 of those times it’s a picture of a woman that was protesting a literal neo-nazi gathering or something, not some sort of radical crazy man-hating feminist. But the internet has conditioned the average person to look at someone like that and immediately think they’re an irrational “feminazi”, and conservatives showing these pictures everywhere and making 100 videos on the same person makes people subconsciously believe they’re rampant and have a massive (and bad) grip on society.

    Same kind of thing happens with vegans, you have the same 10 or so internet vegans people use to portray veganism that conditions people to think poorly of the concept “vegan”, and when these influencers are confronted about it they say “I don’t hate veganism, I just hate the annoying vegans” then they go onto Twitter to complain about the vegans and how they’re irrational for not eating meat and their brains must be de-evolving or something. They know what they’re doing, but they can hide behind plausible deniability, and the majority of viewers fall for it.

  • Garbanzo@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    No one likes being criticized and labeled a monster by an ignorant prick. They way too frequently act like every egg comes from a half zombie chicken that’s kept in a little box and tortured just for fun, or that a cow couldn’t possibly end up in a cheeseburger after living its best life. Factory farming is bad for lots of reasons, but it’s not characteristic of the entire industry.