Is it that big of a news? He’s been pushing liberal zionist talking point way before
Sorry if this comes as a shock to some, but underneath the DSA facade Hasan is and has always been a “vote blue no matter who” Democrat shill.
You literally cannot have one without the other. Embarrassing stuff
There is still a South Africa after apartheid. I’m guessing that’s what this refers to.
Yeah, that turned out well. Didn’t it?
it’s definitely what Hasan is referring to. i disagree with him a lot but posts like this are uncharitable.
here we go again
the Hasan bad struggle session never ends
i agree, it’s astonishing to me that there’s any debate at all about hasan piker. the man showed his ass a long time ago.
I personally think streamers are inherently socially estranging in the sense that you are forced to develop a para-social relationship (or a simulacrum of one) with that said person to enjoy the content or understand their personal struggle/conditions. It’s always better to talk to people, even if most Americans are pieces of fucking shit.
I agree, I think that’s a good way to put it. Streamers come with bad side effects that talking to other “regular” people don’t. And parasocially bonding with a streamer lacks the one-to-one ties that building even acquaintance level relationships with other people does. Even 100 people who are all bonded with each other can do a lot. 1 streamer with 10k fans can’t do more than be an “influencer” because none of their fans are actually bonded to them and most of them are not bonded with each other meaningfully either. So there is no material base with which to build an org, a reading group, anything that requires persistent organization beyond voluntarily showing up to an online space to listen to one person talk. Figures like this can do the occasional virtual charity drive, but these are abstracted forms of charity, where people virtually and voluntarily give donations to a specified organization; no organized gathering of materials and distributing them to people, no passing out literature or talking about an org’s political program with people, etc.
It’s all very shallow in impact, in other words. It’s not without any impact, but it lacks what is needed for movement building, while allowing the viewer to still feel like they’re part of something.
Fuck your charitability! It got us bigots like John Fetterman in 2022 and almost got us Platner this November.
Revolution is not Charity. We do not win people over in the marketplace of ideas by presenting the best ad.
Well yeah but South Africa is at least a country with a history, Israel is not, it can only exist as a settler colony
His father is a former AKP (Erdog’s legal crime syndicate) MP. I always had a prejudice against him because he seems to be close with his father. The only thing I can get behind is his charity stream for the 2023 earthquake.
Source?
Agreed. Hasan and these other non-revolutionary so-called “leftists” are nothing more than counter-revolutionaries funneling countless folks in desperate need of a revolutionary overthrow of the current system into the trap of the antlion that is the Democratic Bourgeois Party. Straight into the maw of the beast that has contributed to the same imperialist policy of their Republican counterparts abroad and austerity, repression and police violence for the working masses at home.
This universalization of a static abstract morality has persisted because it has supported the economic base, but it becomes increasingly apparent the extent to which it has sterilized any opposition.
When abstracted, we freeze - in time and in a space unreachable - structures that are in reality emergent and in relational flux. We dissolve the dynamism present within real materially contingent structures in favor of static and inaccessible abstracts.
Let me be clear as well: The ethical thing for an American to do is be direct; say no to imperial wars. No ifs, no buts, no appeal to universals. An ethics must take into account their position within the imperial core, within the power structures, its culture hegemony and its propensity towards manufactured consent. A universal form of morality does not exist detached from this reality you reside in.
That is to say - you are a part of the system that is immoral. Your voice, as it comes from the imperial core, is inextricably connected to the conditions of imperialism and violence. When you make a statement it is thought to be words tossed into the ether, but know rather that it is a droplet in the greater cultural zeitgeist. “Both sides are bad”, as it is embedded within American hegemony, only supports the American empire. It pacifies the anti-war effort. It is in effect, immoral.
The Pipeline is looking pretty busted right now.
I find it revolting how we are supposed to validate the 1967 pre-conquests because? Idk time. The original residents are not dead, there millions of palestine still under israhelli oppression even in UN-recognized borders of the entity.
The way I understand it, the pipeline concept means something like: if one figure says mild stuff that is more palatable to class-unconscious people but doesn’t speak against people who are more openly communist, or at least is willing to hear them out, that means the listener might go “well this person saying the mild stuff is interesting, but I kinda like what that other person has to say too.” And then start listening to the second person more. And this may gradually move them further left.
This becomes capture rather than pipeline though if the first person is actively speaking against, and trying to undermine, the second person. I honestly don’t know which one Hasan fits more. I’ve heard things in the past that make me think he’s more pipeline than capture by the above definition, but either way, this doesn’t mean we’re supposed to be satisfied with what he’s saying, as communists. We still have to move people further left than what he’s doing.
Counterpoint if he was either he would not make “tankies” look “delusional” and portray anything besides voooting for DSA as hopeless.
Thats not helping people move further left, thats recruiting for his cause. Similar to how “anti-DEI” nazis criticizing the democrats or even capitalism magically doesn’t create a bunch of new leftists.
the “pipeline” is a meme. the only comrades worth anything were brought to the left by material conditions not random millionaire streamers
Agitprop is a material condition. Even bad agitprop can make the gears of class copiousness start clicking over. Hell for me it was the liberal Ukraine propoganda openly embracing fascism that really made things click.
I’m getting a bit tired of leftists fighting over differences in messaging. Hasan’s framing around Palestine has always been that there is currently 1 state (isntrael) because the isntraelis rule over all of Palestine. Therefore his demands are for Palestinians to get equal rights in addition to the right to return to their ancestral home and that all war criminals get put to justice. This means the destruction of isntrael, because it would make the Palestinians a majority who can decide over their own land (including its name and flag). Hasan says that latter part often enough that it’s ridiculous to pretend that he wants to preserve isntrael.
He’s just using a different messaging strategy. You can (and should) scrutinise his messaging strategy, but you’re just making things up if you imply that he’s not on our side on Palestine.
This isn’t so much a difference in messaging as much as it is your internet hero being a liberal zionist. At the end of the day, sentiments like these are simply liberal zionist diatribes. There is no such thing as an Israel without apartheid. There must be a red line somewhere, and that red line is supporting the existence of an ethnostate. If this counts as “anti-zionist” then the word has lost all meaning in common parlance. Zionists support the existence of the ethnostate, while anti-zionists are against it. If you’re not willing to enforce that red line, then you may as well go join the Democratic Party and hang about with your fellow spineless liberals.
2 objects cannot occupy the same space. israel’s existance is predicated on the destruction of Palestine. There is no peace to be had with zionists. They see all non-zionists as sub human and will not honor a deal with sub-humans. Ethostates are incapable of existing in peace.
israel must be destroyed just as the the third reich was. (only more because clearly the third reich isn’t as destroyed enough.)
There is no “messaging strategy” here what he is saying is capitulation to imperialism.
I don’t think you read my comment
We arent “leftists” we are Marxist-Leninists. We read and we critique each other to better ourselves. His messaging “strategy” is a Fight Agency partnership to sheepdog people into the democratic party.
How is Hasan’s position here any different than any of the 5 communist countries that exist
Of the 5 communist countries that remain on earth only 2 don’t recognize Israel and even Cuba still considers a 2 state solution despite not recognizing Israel
You can criticize Hasan for other things but I don’t really see his position being all that different from communist countries ,if apartheid went away than it would mean Israel ending or a 2 state solution happening ,which is what a country like Cuba and even the DPRK technically supports ,the reason I say like is because I doubt the 2 state solution support from a country like France is the same one as countries like Cuba or the DPRK
There is only one country in the world that rejects a 2 state solution because it supports the Palestinian struggle and that’s Iran ,just Iran
Palestinians don’t want Israel to exist but I’ll give you an example ,I’m a Palestinian ,I live in the West Bank and my mom hates Israelis so much she’d rather have a 2 state solution than 1 state solution befause she doesn’t wanna live with them
Me personally I don’t believe in a 2 state solution
she’d rather that Israelis disappear but that’s not really possible ,they’re not gonna disappear on their own
Please don’t get angry or upset ,I’m not trying to attack you,I’m just trying to state my opinion as a Palestinian
You think a socdem endorsing graham platner, Ro Khanna, and Brad Landers is an ally to Palestine? The fight agency shill who is trying to normalize israelis as victims and misunderstood, I quote, “There’s hella Israeli Hasanabiheads;” is an ally to the Palestinian cause? Personally it seems indicative of a potential parasocial attachment to Hasan.
Judging by the downvotes without any rebuttal it seems we got a couple of succdems lurking in our community. Don’t think we don’t know how to weed 'em out
I’m getting a bit tired of leftists fighting over differences in messaging
Me too, and I think that all these self-proclaimed MLs just succumbed to another cultural war. They were fooled into thinking that only pure intentions/actions are worthy, and any compromise is liberal betrayal. I guess they don’t understand materialism after all.
It is quite obvious that Israel would just cease to exist if Palestinians had equal political rights, but for these “MLs” doesn’t matter, they just want to post the “fell for it again” meme one more time.
“israel would cease to exist if Palestinians had equal political rights”
Yeah sure just like how South Africa is a perfect post-colonial paradise? You claim to be a materialist but you contradict yourself in your very own post.
sounding fed much?
Got me in the first half.
“Israel” is a penal colony that should be closed forever. There’s no all true ally siding with Israel or living there.
I love reformists. So fun.
