Then there’s the Japanese Industry Standard (JIS) Philips, which is different from everything else. Without a JIS driver/bits, the head will strip.
I’m all for Torx and External (Inverted) Torx screws.
Use better screws, don’t screw around.
I was going to say “don’t screw up”.
better screws are torx
Nah, Robertson. Torx is designed to destroy bits.
Torx often ends up being the worst of both worlds imo. It grabs too hard and you can easily overdrive it and strip the hole in some material. And you can also still easily strip the head if you don’t get the bit seated all the way. I think the Robinson combo head is the best all around, since you have a Robinson bit for high torque applications and a Phillips bit for low torque and slightly off axis work. And then the “ecx” bit for “I’m going to friction weld this terminal screw shut” applications.
Material matters, if you use poorly made screws that’s when the head gets blunted.
Philips screws are intentionally made to strip though. Even the best material can’t fully offset bad design.
Philips heads are designed to intentionally cam over and limit torque, if you’re using the correct screwdriver that is quite a lot of torque. They certainly have a usecase, but that isn’t anywhere near me. I only use torx.
I read that was just an afterthought to explain away why they strip out so easily, instead of actually redesigning them
Better screws are hex. Torx belongs in the bin alongside slotted screws.
Unbrako and hex are great for bolts and machinescrews, on small headed woodscrews I’m a firm believer of the torx masterrace.
What makes torx crap? Unlike hex, you can still screw them in if your screwdriver is at an angle, which can be really convenient if you’re working at odd angles.
They make hex keys with ball ends to handle that
Yeah but with torx I don’t need an extra bit to handle that, it’s just a built in feature of the bit. It also doesn’t answer why torx apparently sucks? “Hex can also do that if you have a special bit” doesn’t make torx any worse.
Why would it be a separate bit? Most people I know just have a set of these
Robertson head screws are the second most popular fastener people pay me money to remove for them after they screw it up. Torx is third.
Quit screwing around! You all screw around too much!
Have you been to a lot of hardware stores with different grades of every of the 257 different types and sizes and thicknesses they carry?
Years ago when working in a boat shop at a “yachting center” aka “dudes with 20’ sailboats they’ve spent more effort repairing than their marriage” and I had a full wall of hardware.
An old school wooden hardware shelf.
My favorite thing ever in my whole life was being Willy wonka with fasteners and my rolly ladder
I’ll get the torx universal wood and stone ones, thanks.
Or the right size screwdriver and apply force down onto the screw as you turn
Doesn’t matter. It’ll still slip and partly strip it. Maybe only 1/5, but people are not machines.
Hex screws are pretty good, I’ve never had one strip out
They do but you have to really work at it. I see them all the time as set screws on the fans in commercial ovens. Leave a set screw in an oven for years and that bastard will be so profoundly sized that you can round out even a hex screw.
Don’t underestimate the efforts some people are willing to go to.
Phillips head are the Mercator Projection of screws. Great for their specific purpose that shockingly few people seem to know and bottom tier otherwise, yet widely used anyway.
Which one in your opinion is the best general purpose screw? Basically something that should be the default?
Torx, excluding TX27. Just use 25 or 30. For consumer devices or anything that gets turned by hand Pozidrive is okay, although it sucks if you’re using a drill, and impacts fuck 'em up almost instantly
I use #8 x 2-3in Robertson construction screws for pretty much everything. been doing this for over a decade. hasn’t failed me yet
there are times that a pan head is more suitable or you want a smaller screw, but I just buy the giant buckets if thousands of construction screws and then don’t have to think about buying more. and it’s 1/4 the cost as smaller packages
Robertson Master Race
My philosophy of screwing is that it is always best to find the right screw for the job, BUT, more often than not, a torx/star 2-1/2in #8-10 ceramic coated screw is going to solve all your problems.
Unless you have a specific reason to use something else, Robertson (AKA square) heads should be the default
Finally! Somebody who’s not a simp for Robertson.
All this love for Robinson and Torx and im just here with Posidrive…
Why?
Robertson is clearly superior. You’re not going to strip that, and it holds onto the screw better.Yeah. Robertson plus an impact drill is some of the most fun screwing around one can do that doesn’t involve OP’s mom.
Robertson is great though
HA! Amateurs.
“Hey bro, I saw that those greedy bastards skimped out on the metal parts. So I fixed that for you bro”
Looks like the next guys problem.
Hey!
what the fuck
Tool steel screw and mild steel bit.
You don’t need to insult the guy!
Is that how drillbits are born?
*shorn
Chinesium
JIS!!!
JIS is only good for being cheap, and only works if you’re a precision robot. You lose the autocentering and overtorque protection of Phillips, without gaining any of the advantages of Torx. (Phillips has overtorque protection in the sense that your tool doesn’t break, the screw does; which doesn’t matter if you don’t need to unscrew it.)
I thought the whole “JIS is different from Phillips” thing was a misunderstanding and JIS is just a type of Phillips or something and it and “regular” Phillips are more or less compatible
Edit I found this: https://www.tekton.com/blog/jis-vs-phillips-screwdriver-tip-geometry-and-fastener-compatibility
The last time this thread came up there were some convincing comments suggesting that the over torque protection for philips was not an intended feature.
And when some person inevitably uses a phillips on it, it will look like the picture above.
Why does this exist. Nobody has the driver for it. I could barely find a full size torx I needed for my car.
Using JIS basically requires buying a special high quality screwdriver set. A few years ago I bought a few Nintendo switch repair kits that came with JIS drivers, and ended up removing the screws with a drill. Since then I bought an ifixit kit, which has heads that are actually the right size - unfortunately it is too late for my poor switch, that is now slightly mangled beneath its case.
Basically what I’m trying to say is fuck JIS.
Robertson (square) is the best.
Americans just don’t know how to screw.
At this point you’re just asking for a yo mamma joke
My momma is Canadian and she don’t want no inferior American bits.
Yeah she sure knows how to screw
Yeah because she’s Canadian… unlike Americans who don’t know how to screw.
American here. Robertson is the absolute goat.
Robertson is the supreme screw!
I fucking hate torx. The bits snap too often because they don’t cam out. Get some arm strength and keep your bit straight and phillips works great
Torx drivers are cheap and rubbish, but ooh boy, Philips is the worst.
Check out the Toque Test Channel on Torx drivers. The companies have different patterns for their heads with different advantages and disadvantages.
Philips is bad. Pozi-Drive screw with Philips head is awful.
Torx is undoubtedly a better screw head, but I have so many drivers, especially the smaller ones, that have snapped heads. It’s a manufacturing issue with the driver, not the screw head.
But I guess my comment still stands, you can complain about torx, but you absolutely can’t compare it to how shit Philips is (including every variation and adaptation).
Or get about half a brain and just don’t over tighten your torx screws until they snaps
At least you didn’t leave the toolkit in the rain and almost burn the house down by leaving the soldering iron plugged in for a week.
Yes, I’m still alive.
And yes, I used a Phillips screwdriver in JIS and vice versa multiple times.
And yes, I used a Phillips screwdriver in JIS and vice versa multiple times.
Our new screwdrivers have Phillips tips that meet JIS standards
New; not 40 years old. But I mostly use my relatively new toolkit now, so I’m pretty much fine.
The important bit is further down
Our Phillips tips follow the ISO 8764-1 standard, which is compatible with the JIS standard B 4633. In fact, of the three main standards, ASME, ISO, and JIS, the least strict standard is JIS. As shown below, the JIS dimensions almost all fall within the ASME or ISO acceptable dimensions. Therefore, any Phillips screwdriver, such as our new Tekton Phillips screwdrivers, can be made to meet JIS standards. In fact, you should expect that all well-made drivers that meet the ASME or ISO standards will also meet the JIS standard.
But yes, this doesn’t make clear if this has changed over time.
Not with the craptastic tools you guys use. Plus the general thumb fingered, hoof handed, club footed skills most of have. And yes, I exclusively use a JIS spec’ed driver for Japanese cross head screws. The fit is far better and I have far few issues removing those screws.
People who don’t do that have often ended up paying $100 per screw removal to me to un-fuck their ignorance. I have spent so much money on tools for broken bolt/screw removal that it isn’t even funny anymore.
Why are they called after the brand of a kitchen blender, anyway? I call it a “plus head”
the next stage is where I show the screw how to transform itself into a puddle
Because Philips screws were supposed to cam out, to stop overtightening on airplanes.
Maybe we shouldn’t use Philips screws for non-aviation purposes.
Right but for aircraft we’ve got torque wrenches which can stop overtightening much more accurately.
The only reason they’re so common is because of Henry Ford. Ford wanted Robertson screws, but Ford also wanted to make his own screws in-house. Robertson wouldn’t license them, Philips would, the rest is history. Robertson screws are much more common than Philips up in Canada (where they’re from).
Robbies are a different kind of pain due to metric and imperial sizing
? Is this sarcasm. Robertson’s aren’t imperial or metric, they are numbered
the other commenter was right, I was misremembering and had hex keys in mind
It’s Allens that aren’t in arbitrary sizes but their actual dimensions and sold in metric and normal sizes.
metric and normal
ಠ_ಠ
😁
I’ve read this was the justification after the fact.
Use a battery drill with a torque limiter?
You can definutely put a torque limiter on your hands.
Everyone in here hating on philips head screws when old slot head screws are the true enemy.
There’s like 3 use cases for slot heads, and there they’re worth their weight in gold. Everywhere else however? Fuck 'em.
Slot heads never wear out.
Torx are the enemy.
Probably a bit extreme, but I do love torx screws. First choice for any project I start for sure.
Start buying Robertson, there’s no reason to use Torx at all except to piss off whomever has to deal with that project after you.
