Peace be with you, F-Droid Community. 🌹
As many probably know, Google will block Android starting 2027.
Here is my hope: Google has shot itself in the foot with this Darth Vader move, because many People who loves privacy will now switch to de-googled systems, because ( Since to my knowledge), the blockade won’t affect those systems.
So this is just my Openion and my HOPE.
What’s your take on this?
And I kindly say to all developers: Please don’t register in Google.
There are so many people using de-googled systems now, including myself. Please keep going for us, and four you too. Please
Best wishes from Germany 🌹
I have developer mode enabled on my phone to get around this but it does force you to wait 24 hours.
So, did I understood correctly that just getting pixel with GrapheneOS is way out?
Yes. Bonus if you get it used just make sure it’s completely unlocked. A carrier phone is not unlocked and is a pain in be butt to get unlocked. I can’t remember what instance it’s on but there’s a graphene community.
Edit it’s [email protected] I know some instances don’t interact with .ML though
What about Morena phones? I am at the moment considering what to do, I am ready and want to get for myself and my family, just don’t know what.
@Newhere @greatwhitebuffalo41 I’ve been a #Murena #eos happy user since 2020. If you don’t need Google, Microsoft or other evil ecosystem apps, you’ll be fine.
The community forum helps a lot:
https://community.e.foundation/latestI personally don’t know anything about them so I’m not really helpful for that I’m sorry.
So, did I understood correctly that just getting pixel with GrapheneOS is way out?
I can’t really say anything about that, sorry. I’m not familiar with GrapheneOS or Google Pixel. As far as I know, Play Services can apparently be installed in a sandbox?.. but I didn’t quite get it either. So I can’t say whether the system will be affected by Google’s rules. Sorry I can’t help further.
Sooooo the way out, is to pay Google a thousand dollars for their phone…
If that’s a bother you could get it secondhand
Still props up Google’s phone business.
I was doing Android development recently and apparently the official SDK builds needed to build the app aren’t FOSS, and actually FOSS versions are difficult to get. I still can’t wait until Linux phones are a thing, Android is such a shitshow nowadays and even GrapheneOS is still at the mercy of Google’s ecosystem. (also still no aarch64-linux support for the build tools either)
Someone probably going to break the lock like a week into it. You can just refuse the update until it does
Having to jailbreak an android phone… Fuck.
i mean you’ve had to do that from the start if you want to do anything fancy with it
Update system,right? Sorry , things what are common for this commun,I am just learning.
Is there a program or a way to tell what apps currently on ones phone will be affected by this?
Is there a program or a way to tell what apps currently on ones phone will be affected by this?
Hi.
As far as I know, there is no program with which you can check this.
But, I know that for example F-Droid apps on Google-certified devices will no longer be usable, because these apps are not registered in the Play Store. According to the KeepAndroidOpen page, this will no longer work.
I want to add: According to the Samsung Galaxy Store Seller Portal, apps that are already installed will remain usable, just without updates.
Hopes, that helped.
Is your OS stock with Google on it? Change that software to something without Google
other people are posting their experiences with degoogling on lemmy and that’s how i stay informed.
How is this going to work for the companies that have internal only apps like time clocks or schedulers. Can they pay the fee and have their apps hidden from the PlayStore or are they all fucked?
This isn’t stopping apps from outside the Play Store, internal apps can still be distributed internally (downloading an APK from a website for example). But these apps now have to be signed by a developer verified by Google. This happens by registering on Google Play, uploading the app, giving Google all the info, and then just not publishing the app on Google Play.
Adb will continue to work
I believe you may mean Darth Vader.
Also, I think everyone who was worried about this might have moved to a different ROM that’s more privacy focused and that there may be some movement but it will show up as a blip for Google because most people don’t understand and don’t care.
I believe you may mean Darth Vader…
😅You’re right. Thanks for the correction!
You have a good point. I also know many of people who have no clue about this. I talked a lot about this but they dont care. Anyway for me, every setback, even if it’s just a brief blip for Google is a triumph. Of course , a longer triumph will be great, but yeah… that is just my openion. And thanks again, for the Darth Vader Correction 👍🏻
I decided on graphene awhile ago and run what Google apps I need in a sandbox for this reason among others. My hope is that my approach will protect me from their overreach but at this point we need more successful development and marketing of alternative OS’s built on things like Linux because normal every day people don’t care what operating system it is so long as it’s available in their price range and it works.
You make a good point. And its so true. I know a lot of people who also dont care about Google Problems.
I’m just familiar with /e/OS so far. I’ve disabled microG and don’t use a single Google app. But I can’t judge the people who using it. The problem is really the ecosystem. Many companies build on Google, which means they’re not independent. The End result is : There are no real alternatives. So people only know Google and nothing else
the open source community response to this is a joke. not prepared at all. we’re totally fucked.
Hey. I’m trying to see everything positively though. I know its sucks, and im angry too. But how secure can a Google-certified device be AGAINST GOOGLE anyway? I could only deactivate the systems, which is why I wanted to buy an /e/OS device. And the news from F-Droid that Google was going to pull this shit was the kick in the ass I needed to finally buy a Fairphone with /e/OS.
I think it is great that you are putting your energy into something that feels meaningful to you. But we also need to make sure that we don’t waste our energy on something that doesn’t burn us out.
The current message has low energy, which means that the energy doesn’t spread so easily. What we need is high energy which means that energy spreads easily.
We need a high energy message. A message that empowers the individuals, makes us dream, makes us want to contribute to the movement.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts so openly. Sorry my message came off as “low energy” to you. But to me, it still holds up logically. Google makes money mostly from ads and our data. The more people boycott their products, the less funding goes to things like Project Nimbus. De-googled setups, a phone, an app, a browser, give me hope. This isn’t just about privacy for me, it’s about human rights! And i hope ther will coming more Alternatives.
Again: Thanks for sharing your openion so openly.
what do you mean? what would you have the community do?
I’d expect us to be organized enough to be prepared for google removing our foundation. Instead all we’ve got is a countdown timer and a call to pressure a fucking evil company into “doing the right thing”.
it’s as if we are begging on our knees to extend our execution date. I don’t feel any motivation about putting my energy on the line for this weak ass energy.
To be fair, this has been an issue from the start, and barely anyone cared about it until now. To put into perspective, the whole PC environment has evolved to be open within its fundamentals - Standardised components, user servisable parts, and ability to control what OS is put on.
In the case of phones, propriatery is the norm. No standardized components nor freedom, just the fact that we are doomed from the start as a single corpo essentially owns your phone not the other way around.
If something where to change it would be separation of the manufacturer from the OS and the premise of a free bootloader. Of course this is what’s happening right now with google-free phones; of course, this should’ve been done sooner - but at least this will work as a catalyst for the future devices.
As a game dev i don’t see any problem in releasing the app for both google registered and alternatives. A login for a game could just use email pw right?
Problem is you don’t get a choice
it’s a 1984 move
Step 1: Personally identify all deveopers
Step 2: Make impossible to run software from non-identified developers
Step 3: Maintain full control over all software, What? You want to make a Youtube substitute? Blocked.
Maybe I’m out of the loop, but shortly after Google announced this didn’t they backtrack and say they will let you install unapproved apps after changing a setting and waiting 24 hours?
They said that, but similarly with how they said they delayed switching their extension API after backlash (they’d break adblockers), they ended up doing it later on. That’s what they’re counting on here as well, unless there’s a lot of loud backlash and this hits their bottom line they will eventually eliminate that option down the line imo. They have every incentive to do so.
^This.
Even if there is immense push-back for this right now, they have told everyone what they want to (and eventually will) do. The wake up call we need to focus on is an alternative. A fully functional mobile FOSS OS (I personally hope for Linux, but honestly don’t want to restrict the options if there are others that would be better).
An afaik undocumented workaround isn’t exactly evoking trust, particularly coming from Google. Also wtf 24h cooldown to install shit on my own device?!
Don’t forget about the new automatic Google play services check that app developers can enable with a single click on build. That automatically blocks the app from working on any degoogled ROM
Can you advertise f-droid in an app on play store? Or offer free features on a link that teaches how to f-droid yourself?
Fdroid is exactly what they’re about to block
Can it be side loaded?
That’s actually the problem, you will be able to side-load for now, but you have to enable a setting and wait 24 hours. They’re laying the groundwork to remove side-loading.
That said, it’s unclear if fdroid will still work. They’re gating installs; nothing says they’ll let other apps do installs ungated.
Not necessarily and there are ways to install it waiting a day, then it won’t be enforced on a per app basis like they plan.
This is the first step. They want to wall the garden off. When this fails to eliminate newpipe and greyjay, they will claim that sideloading is no longer needed because it’s barely used.
I tried to open up an issue (and did a PR) suggesting a developer strike as a tactic (IE open source devs adding their names to a list to promise to remove our apps from google play if developer ID goes through) on the KeepAndroidOpen repo.
The maintainers of that repo have been ignoring me to death since April. I was told by the maintainer that the project was “leaderless”, but in reality it seems they’re very opposed to a developer strike, otherwise my PR would’ve gotten more attention.
If you or somebody will create this initiative, please create a post about it on Lemmy! (Or ping me here if you’ll remember.) It’s a good initiative! Worth the attention. I’d also be curious to know which developers have committed to the strike and which haven’t.
I don’t have the energy to start something and try to rally a bunch of devs, but I would join it.
Is there a change to an app in Google TOCs that can get folk to get app from F-droid?
For example: “Free features for this app only available on play. New features and enhancements available (paid or) for free through f-droid.” Or if you cannot openly advertise in the app, “Visit our website to get enhanced features and updates” with clear documentation on how to install and permit f-droid and get app through there.
That way, big app devs can create moves to f-droid, normalising it and chipping away at googles power. The more apps, the more legimate f-droid seems to normies.
Ideally done as soon before switchover as possible. Even reach out to content creators.
It moves from protest, to protest and solution.
Developers don’t want to strike because a strike means no pay because we are not unionized. It’s hard to unionize when it’s easy to find a new job for people. Our leverage is just leaving. But publishing on specific platforms don’t have that option.
I work on an Android app for a small company. Google doesn’t care at all about Android devs except if you’re running a huge social media app or P2W game. I’m pretty sure they expect blowback from the OSS community and their plan is to simply ignore it.
There are some really popular FOSS apps for android, that are also on google play. Things like tasks.org , all the fossify apps, termux, joplin, ankidroid, thunderbird / k9, and many more.
These being potentially removed from google play by developers due to a developer strike, would have more of an impact than KeepAndroidOpen’s current top strategy, which is for users to mass email their country’s regulators, which are easily ignored by either politicians or google.
Must be a US based/themed online “protest”
“We want something to change”
“We aren’t going to do anything drastic for the change”
“Nothing changed? Oh well!”
They almost always seem like a controlled opposition set up to make people believe, gain support (artificially at first to deter competeting protests that are more radical), but once it gets popular it doesn’t accomplish anything, won’t listen to ideas, input and feedback from the community and fold as soon as they aren’t required.
I think it impacts any system running Google play services, even if you’re on GrapheneOS. Is that everyone else’s understanding too?
You do not need to install Play services on Graphene. You can. You can also install MicroG, or you can skip both and use NextPush or ntfy.
well for one, you don’t even need play services for all apps downloaded from the play store. and for another, even for the ones that do need it, play services run as an unprivileged sandboxed app, the same as any. so it can’t enforce anything google wants because it has zero control over anything.
I can’t find the post, but I recall the Graphene developers saying this would not affect GrapheneOS because of the way they have play implemented. Play services on GrapheneOS is sandboxed, it does not have permission to enforce this check.
But it will affect GraphenrOS users if less developers will make FOSS apps because its harder to distribute them
Agreed
Okay neat, thanks for the explanation
Hey, honestly I don’t know much about GrapheneOS. I only know it’s available for Google Pixels. But you’re right. All Google-certified devices will be ‘locked down!’
Not fully what you’re asking but this was posted on their official Reddit
Google has already had to change how they plan on implementing their blocking app installs from unregistered developers after a lot of backlash. “Sideloading” will still be possible, as we’ve all learned from recent news. The 24 hour wait does add some friction to the whole process, which is the point of course, but it’s far less bad than some people are trying to make it seem. 24 hours, then it’s over and the user is free to install apps as they please.
This “sideloading” restriction is not even the biggest problem right now. Play Integrity is worse and does affect us directly. The effects of Play Integrity are showing up in multiple places, like now apps can’t be installed via Play Store, maybe Aurora in the future, apps refuse to run, Play Integrity verdicts are worse if an app was installed via another source than Play Store, and Automatic Protection has Play Integrity features being added. It’s a far bigger problem. It causes enough friction for some users that they give up on GrapheneOS or other non-GMS OSes to go back to whatever stock OS they had before, one complete with Google apps with privileged access and awful privacy. This other issue just got a lot more attention, and I’m guessing because it’s easier for people to fully understand.
We have been in touch with EU regulators about Play Integrity and I hope that can continue in the future. Google isn’t going to change things because a small group of people are complaining. We need regulators to help with big issues. We need to find a way to make them understand what is happening. Play Integrity is a big example of them locking things down under the guise of “security.” Fixating on other smaller issues is, in my opinion, less effective and a waste of time and resources. The “sideloading” thing has enough attention and opponents to the change have had some success.
We need a mobile Linus Torvalds, one that’s not Finnish-American.
Alas that’s not happening.
what part of him being finnish-american has influenced his decision making?
He himself sprouted some fucked up lines in the episode of banning Russian devs from the LKML who could be resumed to “lol, cry me a river. I’m Finnish and you know what that means, right?”
And I guess you too?
i’m not sure which one you’re referring to, me “knowing what being finnish means” or saying those lines
i know what he’s referring to cus there’s a lot of finns that are russophobic and trying to excuse it with political stuff but it’s not something specific to being finnish… not all of us are like that
I know not everyone is like that. Sorry if it sounded that way.
But nobody can excuse Linus here.
Banning Russian devs was (is?) so performative, impractical and stupid, and of course lots of “apolitical” projects display Ukraine flag emojis, but you say one word about not liking genocide…
Exactly
