ETA: Thank you all for providing your opinion about this question. I’m contacting my mother and asking her about what she would want, I’ll follow her lead and support what she decides. As said I don’t believe she wants those toxic family members or her families around on a moment so special like saying your last goodbye to a husband. And neither do I.
I’d prefer a public funeral excluding them or conducting a small Christian ritual for family only where we can mourn him like we want but if she wants them around, so be it.
Funerals are for the living.
Thank you all.
My Christian, old republican southerner father wants me to attend his Christian funeral with all of his surviving relatives present. I don’t believe in any god, he knows that. He needs a religion to give a meaning to his life? Knock yourself out.
Religion is not the main problem here. The main problem is how close minded and fake people are in a southern small town in GA and above all, relatives. 2 aunts love to pretend everything is fine, they excel doing that on funerals and weddings, then stab you in the back as soon as you’re not within ear distance, either need drama to feel important or have way too much free time.
I wouldn’t mind a small Christian ritual with my mother, my brother, a priest and nobody else, but these women and their husbands? They drag everyone down with their stupid grudges about yard sales and business deals made in the early 2020s and seem to be envious of those who left that place and found something better. Last time I saw them, 7 years ago, they complained I don’t call them. What for?
I’m better off without them and don’t have the bandwidth to deal with them.
Family seems to be an identity issue for my father, the idea that his whole family won’t bury him together scares him. I told them I will honor him my way, with luck on the hospital bed where he dies or at home, that mother and brother are welcome to honor him with me, that I won’t attend a funeral with people I don’t like but he is not listening: he is now retorting to manipulate me (it would be so good, wouldn’t it be nice…?)
My father is not cognitively impaired. The easy way out would be to tell him ‘sure, I’ll come to your funeral with all those assholes you care so much about’ and after he dies, ignore it. I suspect my mother would agree, because she wasn’t born in GA and these aunts always felt superior to her, something my father always downplays because ‘we’re family’.
I like treating my father like an adult and want genuine conversations with him. To me, placating him on a thing like this means accepting my father has become a 5 year old who needs to be lied to so he doesn’t start feeling sad or feels I’m attacking him. It doesn’t feel right.
But it feels worse to pretend I respect those lying assholes or to listen to their boring life I don’t care about.
So what do I do?
Assuming you love your father, I advise you to reconsider your position and go to the funeral. It seems to matter a lot to him. Be kind to him, go, ignore your aunts. Sometimes, it is not that hard to make the world a better place.
But it feels worse to pretend I respect those lying assholes or to listen to their boring life I don’t care about.
It is even worse.
Others have already said it, funerals are for the living. As long as you’re honest with yourself (this doesn’t seem to be about religion, rather shitty family) and you understand the consequences of your actions, you’re an adult, do what you want.
Will it cause a scandal if you don’t go? Probably. Is that something you’re prepared for? Can you deal with that fallout?
The people in this thread exclaiming you must go, it’s family! likely don’t come from families with shitty relations and themselves feel some societal obligation to go to a funeral no matter what. Geography doesn’t matter for honouring the dead. You go to comfort and commiserate with the survivors. If that’s not important to you, do it in your own way. There is no wrong way to grieve or mourn someone’s passing (obviously within reason).
Funerals, among other things, are an event that reminds us that there are things more important than the petty shit we squabble about and hold against one another. Whatever flaws we all have, we are all human, we are all going to die someday, and we are all going to lose those we love if we don’t die first. It’s a time to set all that petty shit aside and remember that.
Counterpoint: fuck subjecting yourself to reactionary assholes in Georgia. Even if they are family.
His request seems reasonable, and from the information at hand, it seems you’re being a bit selfish.
If you care about your father, you can tolerate some insufferable people for a couple hours to honor him. You don’t even have to socialize. You’re there for him, not them.
This isn’t about religion, even if you’re trying to make it about religion. You want to get out of your father’s funeral because it makes you uncomfortable.
Life is full of uncomfortable things, you’ll need to get used to it. There’s thousands of times you’ll need to suck it up and be around people you don’t like because it’s the respectful thing to do.
I’m agnostic, used to be atheist. I thought the same thing. Your fathers funeral, family dinners, respectful times, you’re not “making a stand” you’re being whiney and immature. Atheists celebrate Christmas, go to weddings and funerals. We just sit there silently and respectfully. That’s how we actually want to be viewed outside of a religious context.
Figure out the reason you don’t actually want to go and then learn from it. That’s what growing up is.
Yeah the holidays/rituals aren’t about religion, they’re about family and community. Social cohesion with those you love is the point, provided you wish to keep those people in your life.
This is a legimately awful response.
OP has already said religion isn’t the issue and that a dramatic, judgmental family is.
Calling OP whiney and immature is baseless and unhelpful. As is telling people they should just suck up doing uncomfortable things ‘because it’s the respectful thing to do’. Being an adult is realising that there is actually no ruddy obligation to go do a lot of these things out of respect, especially when, as in OP’s case, you’ve clearly run out of respect for the people in question.
Yes, there are times when we must all do uncomfortable things - When those things come up, work out why said thing is actually necessary or beneficial to your life (or those you care about), and then you, as an adult, can actually weigh up those reasons and work out if you should ‘suck it up’ or not. It is very much your own choice, not some god-fearing obligation to respectfulness.
hi, just wanted to thank you for posting this. Religion is completely secondary to this.
Alright I’ll admit that it’s generalized.
I’ll amend my statement. Those are the things we do because they’re respectful to the people we care about. OP, if you don’t want a relationship with your family in the future, then absolutely go for it and sever ties with them.
I’ve cut off family before, you just sever ties if they bring you no joy. What you don’t do though is act sulky and try to blame it on religion ( which they did, because if it wasn’t relevant they wouldn’t have mentioned it). That is not a mature way to handle it.
I have both a loving and caring side of the family and one who sucks all joy and happiness. I severed one off, the other I put on my good clothes and suffer through them telling me stories of things I don’t care about. That’s what you do when you care about people.
Its the same thing if your best friend goes out/marries someone you don’t like. You can cut off your friend, or you can do something immature like demanding they spend time with only you, or you can be a grown up and put up with their SO because you love your friend and know they make them happy, and you know your friend would be hurt if you made them choose. The spoiler though is that only one of those three options allows you to keep the friendship.
“Agnostic” is just a more specific kind of atheist. You’re still an atheist.
“Agnostic” is just a more specific kind of atheist. You’re still an atheist.
Some people who call themselves agnostic lean atheist like you say, and might call themselves “agnostic atheists” as a more specific descriptor of their atheism. Some people who are agnostic may lean theist, and call themselves “agnostic theists” (this is usually the label I give myself). Others may not lean one way or the other, or may not care, and may call themselves simply “agnostic.” Or there could be any number of other reasons someone uses the term they prefer.
The differences might be minor or non-existent in your view, but might be important to another individual. Don’t presume to understand what someone else believes simply because of your interpretation of a term.
It’s a stressful situation, a funeral. It seems insurmountable before it happens and once it gets going it becomes mostly manageable. I get why you don’t want the stress and all the family dynamics and the religious top layer.
That being said: yes, you are unreasonable. If you like going to funerals, there is something wrong with you. Nobody likes it. For much the same reasons as yours. That’s the baseline.
Think of it as a game and try to avoid talking to all the family members you don’t like. And since it will be your father’s funeral, you have the perfect excuse to have a thousand mile stare and be monosyllabic. And then you treat yourself when it’s over.
There is no need to make your father sad now. Tell him you’ll attend. Because it matters to him. Even if you have no intention to show up, which you should though. He’ll either come back to haunt you from the afterlife (slim chance) or the only people who will maintain a grudge are your living relatives. That’s the bed you’ll be making for yourself and you can avoid a whole lot of additional shit in the future by investing half a day and attend the goddamn funeral.
Hard to say, there’s not a lot given on your relationship between you and your father to go on.
But in general, you should probably go unless you have a major beef with him specifically.
I often wonder about this situation for myself tho. By the time they die (unless of course something big happens), all of the grandparents will be dead (Mom’s parents already are, Dad’s dad is dead (which is GREAT news) already), Mom’s last sister will probably be dead, Dad’s brothers family is kinda just strangers. Both of them are very Republican churchy people, Dad’s brother is too, his wife has an impossibly thick accent (to the literal point where all of us just kinda smiling and nodding and try to avoid conversations with her), and my 2 cousins are much younger than me (about 13-15 years younger) and we don’t have any regular contact with them other than maybe Christmas. But they’re just as brainwashed as my parents, so I don’t actually want relationships with any of my family at all besides my siblings and their kids.
I don’t want to go to the funeral(s) because it will be at a church. I’ve already decided to never go to a church outside of a wedding or funeral, but that doesn’t mean I’m eager to go back, especially to my childhood church. I don’t want to be exposed to any of those people at all. I have no relationships with any of them, and definitely don’t want to. I think they all assume I go to some other church now, and if that dam bursts it’s gonna become a scene. Unless I find a way to get a grip. Religion and church… I don’t know if I can even claim the word “triggers me” because I didn’t experience a singular moment of clear abuse, but it sends me up the wall with some kinda of feelings, as I was ONLY exposed (outside of some grocery store trips) to people from church before Mom finally gave up homeschooling, so I had absolutely zero secular social life until just before I could get a driver’s license. It took until I hit 30 before I finally had the moment where it hit that church was total bullshit. It was a weird slow ramp until that moment, but it was a very important singular moment to me.
Anyway, tldr is I don’t care about anyone that would show up at all. Except for my siblings. I highly dislike almost every one of them, outside of maybe Dad’s coworkers (but only because I don’t know them) and my friends (from back in church days) that I would be fairly neutral with, even tho so if them (afaik) are still in the religion.
I mean if they die separately it’ll be more difficult to skip out, but if they die together (and still no will documented) we’ll probably just bury em and split everything up evenly (whatever there is after selling estate anyway). Even the half of my siblings that is still sorta religious have little regard or memory of any of the people at the church, and the other half definitely share my feeling on it.
But one of the religious half is a funeral director, so he might try to make something out of it, but would probably get shut down. If they put in some advanced desire thing we’ll probably abide by it, but if they don’t, time to toss the bodies and run, shipping the funeral process. Dad’s brother can just be mad about it, fuck that conservative bastard.
Some of these responses are so nuts that they might be your aunts conspiring to fuck with you. Or caterers desperate to sell one more plate. It’s like they never visit graves or even talk about the person that died again. Are you even ever going to see these people again?
Fuck what your dad wants. Ask your mom/siblings if they need the support, if you like them. And if you do go, you can literally fart on your aunts. I can’t fathom why people want you to engage with people who make your life worse for no gain. Yeah, smile for your boss because you need the paycheck, but this?
Are you even ever going to see these people again?
the only ones I care about are my mother and brother.
Ask your mom/siblings if they need the support, if you like them.
this is the best answer so far. With difference.
I can’t fathom why people want you to engage with people who make your life worse for no gain. Yeah, smile for your boss because you need the paycheck, but this?
cannot upvote this enough
You sound angry. Are you sure you’re angry about this and not about him dying?
What do you want to do?
Also, should you let your aunts keep you away from your father’s funeral, if their presence is the major issue?
If your father has been good to you, and you can be there, maybe you can fulfil a request of his?
But it feels worse to pretend I respect those lying assholes or to listen to their boring life I don’t care about.
Do you have to? You could ask that you be excused from such convos and avoid them, right?
Not sure if you have some specific issues with your aunts tho, so do ignore this if there is some significant thing that is not considered
Exactly, I have these same people (the aunts) in my life. Theyre awful humans. So you can just smile and wave or tell them off. Theyre never going to change. After the funeral go no contact and let them die in their misplaced rage.
If your dads cool, just go out of respect. I’m in the same boat, hate my relatives, but I’d still go.
I mean… I’ll be the one to say it: he’s not gonna know.
Do what you want and need to in order to maintain your sanity. Placate him with a white lie - and it is a white lie - to make him feel better, if you want to. But maintaining your boundaries and avoiding people you find utterly caustic isn’t “childish”. In fact, I’d call it a consummately adult behavior.
Like a lot of other people are saying: Go to the funeral
A funeral happens once for someone, and that’s it. There’s no other opportunity to attend. So weighing missing a single opportunity to respect your father (and it sounds like you care for him) and provide closure for yourself, versus petty squabbles from other family members doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve been to funerals with family members I’ve disliked, and I just ignored them and stood away from them during the service; so I’m wondering why you wouldn’t be able to do the same? I feel like there might be something more going on. Either between you and the problematic family members; or your own mental wellbeing.
Please consider that if you miss it, you may regret it. Especially considering that the reason for missing it would be a deliberate choice, and it’s over gossip. As you get older, you may find that you will care very little about gossip; especially if it’s from people you dislike. So you may come to realize in the future that you missed your father’s funeral over effectively nothing
I’ve always been taught that attending someone’s funeral is one of the greatest good deeds you can do for someone. They’re no longer here, so they can’t pay you back; and sometimes it’s really difficult to attend both by having to stop everything you’re doing to make it, and emotionally. So there’s always been an emphasis on attending funerals in my life
I had some very choice words for my grandpa and I never apologized. Then he died. I still went to the funeral, and I still get upset that I never apologized.
the only reason it matters is to impress the people at the funeral. if you don’t care about that, don’t go.
Yes. You’re being a dick.
Elephants aren’t religious (as far as I know) yet even they will gather to say goodbye to a family member. When the day comes, you’ll want to too.
In my opinion, your stance is madness. You say you’re treating your father like an adult, but you aren’t acting like one yourself.
Adults tolerate minor discomforts to honor the ones they love. Adults make small talk or avoid people they don’t like at important events while still successfully showing their attendance.
Children prioritize their own small emotions and grievances over the needs and dignity of their parents because they don’t know any better or have any perspective.
So, which kind of son/daughter are you going to be?
yours is an interesting post, I’ll try to rebut it.
I don’t want to honor an important person by having to deal with people I don’t like, that in the past stated very clearly they don’t like my mother to the point of calling her a gold digger (and worse).
Something I’ll never understand is why my father is so accommodating with people like that for family’s sake. To me that makes him weak and lets others walk all over him, even to the point of disrespecting his own wife for ‘family’. This I’ll never understand.
To me doing what you propose means turning something pure into a show, a theatrical production.
I’ll have to talk to my mother about this. If he goes first, she’s the one who’ll decide.
To me doing what you propose means turning something pure into a show, a theatrical production.
Welcome to life.
Of course it’s a theatrical production, just like church, weddings, birthday parties, and just about every other human event. The performance is part of the honoring. You dress up nice. You show your grief. You remember out loud. These are all visible signs of the respect you feel for the deceased. It makes others aware of how much the deceased meant to you. It reminds everyone of the value of life, relationships, and to not waste time with people you love because they might not be there one day.
They say you only get one shot at a first impression. A funeral is a time when everyone who cared for you comes together to create the last impression. You, as his son, have a lot of power to make it a good one.
I don’t want to honor an important person by having to deal with people I don’t like…
That’s the childish response I was talking about. Nobody wants to spend time with people they don’t like, but a mature realization is that your mild discomfort is secondary to the importance of that moment, even more so, it is secondary to the importance of letting your father know that you love and honor him.
As I understand it from your description, you have prioritized avoiding discomfort over attending his funeral (his final wish), and you’ve prioritized avoiding discomfort by telling him that you’re going to skip instead of even softening the blow by shouldering the burden of a white lie. You chose yourself twice over your dying dad’s feelings and final requests. That is a pretty tough pill to swallow for dad.
To me that makes him weak and lets others walk all over him…
Do you like your dad? I got the impression from the original post that you generally had a good relationship with him, but then you put him down here.
People are flawed. People have weakness and severity in them and sometimes lean too far to one side. You dad is dying. If you don’t accept and possibly forgive his humanity now, when will you?
That’s the childish response I was talking about.
then I’m childish. Note I don’t say that meaning I should change. What I’m tempted to do is to agree with mother what to do with his corpse after he dies because I have the feeling she also hates some family members pretty strongly and would prefer to be her genuine self during a ceremony like this than having to cater to visitors and see the ones that wronged her, pretending all is fine and dandy.
People are flawed.
absolutely. As you said, I’m childish and don’t want to change. My father has the good traits and also the bad ones I mentioned. Why should I only mention his good side? Because we’re family? My father cheated on my mother, my mother forgave him. This I’ll never understand.
A funeral is a time when everyone who cared for you comes together to create the last impression. You, as his son, have a lot of power to make it a good one.
yes, with the ones I care about, the ones I respect, not with a bunch of rednecks.
As I understand it from your description, you have prioritized avoiding discomfort over attending his funeral (his final wish), and you’ve prioritized avoiding discomfort by telling him that you’re going to skip instead of even softening the blow by shouldering the burden of a white lie. You chose yourself twice over your dying dad’s feelings and final requests.
Because I don’t know what’s the right call here: do I treat him like the adult he always was, being brutally honest with him when dealing with difficult issues because we all die or do I treat him like a scared child incapable of having sound decisions anymore, a person that only reacts and thinks emotionally?
If you don’t accept and possibly forgive his humanity now, when will you?
this is a very good question. How does forgiving and accepting his humanity look like to you? Because to me, now, accepting his humanity means white lying to him, lying to him to hide an unpleasant reality. But this means I’m treating him like a child, means the father I always knew is gone.
I sort of agree, weirdly. Funerals are weird, OP, as is family. As someone with a horrendous family and a very bad social brain, I totally empathise with saying you have ‘no bandwidth’. But you only get one father, and one funeral for him. This need not be a long and drawn out event.
In your position, I’d tell him you’ll go and you’ll have a shitty time and you’ll really hate it and let him know you’re doing it for his sake. That way you’re not lying, you’re just agreeing, in the worst case, to waste a few hours of your life with some unpleasant people.
Even better, tell him you want a nice time out now, like a nice dinner, as payment for enduring his funeral when the time comes.
On the other hand, it is immature and even selfish to care about the details of your own funeral. Your funeral is specifically an event for people who loved you, to process their grief. You will definitionally not be around to care about any of it, let your loved ones process their grief however they want.
If it was unusually selfish to care about how you were honored after you die, then nobody would be buying grave monuments or fancy urns.
Caring about your funeral at the end of your life seems to be a pretty common human experience. Hearing that your own child can’t be bothered to attend the event that is meant to honor your life is hard. I imagine it makes them feel like their child doesn’t love them as much as they thought they did.
Would I care if my child didn’t attend my funeral? No, I’d be dead. Would I care if my child told me that they were going to skip my funeral because they couldn’t tolerate a brief encounter with my annoying (never accused of actual abuse) sister? Yes, because it would show me that my child is being self absorbed in that moment and can’t muster up the energy to even pretend to care about my feelings on my deathbed.
I wonder how many unpleasant things OP’s father endured while raising them—I’d imagine a lot. Sometimes we bear little burdens for the people we love, and that’s totally normal, in my opinion.
If it was unusually selfish to care about how you were honored after you die, then nobody would be buying grave monuments or fancy urns.
I wouldn’t say unusually, but yes, people are known to be selfish and immature sometimes. Especially when faced with something scary and unavoidable, like death, and backed by culture and tradition.
I imagine it makes them feel like their child doesn’t love them as much as they thought they did.
People receive and express love in different ways. Not understanding and engaging with that is immature. Trying to manipulate another person into doing something uncomfortable after your death for no material reason at all is selfish.
Sometimes we bear little burdens for the people we love, and that’s totally normal, in my opinion.
Maybe the father can bear the little burden of not doing anything and not being materially affected in any way, then.
