Cross-posted from “FYI: StarTrek.website is no longer federating with Lemmy.dbzer0.com” by @[email protected] in [email protected]

Crossposting here since y’all won’t be able to see it now that they’ve defederated us.

If you’re not familiar with how Lemmy/the Fediverse works, basically everything you read at StarTrek.website is hosted by us, even if the content originated elsewhere. That means we are responsible for everything here and we have to decide if we are comfortable boosting content from other instances.

If you’re curious, the final straw here was learning that db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people, which needless to say goes against our instance values and we simply don’t have the manpower to moderate that volume of content incoming from their server to a degree that we feel meets our quality standards, which left defederating as the only viable option.

In keeping in line with past trends we’re announcing this because is is a larger instance and don’t want to leave any of the crew confused as to why something may be missing.

I don’t consider this a massive loss tbh. We already have [email protected] and [email protected] was already more active than their whole instance. And I’m sure @[email protected] can provide the noxious lore of their instance if you’re interested. The only loss would be not having members such as @[email protected] running around running interference for DDoSers like @[email protected]. Also Admiral Patrick of the Tesseract fame, was also an admin on their instance iirc so this is a clear retaliation as far as I’m concerned, even though we didn’t actually do anything to AP.

But also

db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

What the fuck does this even mean? Can someone ask for an example? Is this about Luigi? IDFK…

PS: Will this drama season never end? I want my free time back >_<

  • gedfromgont@piefed.caEnglish
    0·
    17 days ago

    Startrek.website was the first instance I chose years ago coming from Reddit.

    I abandoned it because I noticed mods (or admins?) deleting seemingly random stuff and opinions without much explanation. Took me a while to catch it because I remembered seeing this one post and then later in the day it was just gone, no reference to anything in the modlog.

    Obviously just anecdotal evidence and my own subjective experience, but I had Startrek.website on my personal blocklist ever since. I see now that wasn’t transferred when I made this account on Piefed, ah well, here we go again.

    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
      0·
      17 days ago

      seems like startek.website is a trap, to get people to the instance, and started censoring to isolate people, does it have anything to do with TREK at all.?

      • T156@lemmy.worldEnglish
        0·
        16 days ago

        It’s rather a bit dead these days, but during the days of the API shutdown, and for a little bit after, it was basically meant to be the Lemmy alternative to the Reddit Star Trek communities.

        Unfortunately, it never really got enough traction to do very much at all.

  • InfiniteGlitch@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    0·
    18 days ago

    db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

    Huh? Since when? Lol.

    Don’t think DB0 as a whole ever allowed such a thing. We as an instance are heavily against hurting others (I mean we are against racism, hatred, Zionism, Nazism… you name it).

    The discussion of Luigi is one that’s is actually needed to be had. The guy did something wrong, yes. But he had all the reasons for it. The industry hurts (and kills) thousands of people just for their profit. Just once they got the “favor” returned.

    Anyway, I have no idea what that particular instance is. So won’t be missing it either.

      • Thales@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        17 days ago

        For all the talk about AdmiralPatrick’s unstable behavior, what gets me is this obsession with “no violence!!”

        What do they think Elon did with USAID or what healthcare companies do every day? Capitalism is grinding us into dust and literally destroying the planet, but when someone suggests a French solution they’re the lunatics? Bro, pull your head out.

        • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
          0·
          17 days ago

          Those guys are killing you by taking away the things you need to live. That’s way different than shooting you! /s

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      0·
      17 days ago

      luigi didn’t do anything wrong because he’s not the shooter

      the shooter did one thing wrong and that was not having the dingus for his gun so it would cycle properly with the extra weight of the suppressor.

  • ArkyonVeil@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    0·
    18 days ago

    It is always disappointing. Condoning violence is never acceptable. Unfortunately for us, news after new after news article, we see those who protest peaceful through speech have senseless violence imposed on them. They did not ask to be murdered.

    The ones that asked, have 24/7 news coverage. But it’s okay because they say “it’s concerning”.

    So now that some guy had enough and imposes justice that the law could never give. Through his actions paid one life to save hundreds?

    True, it shouldn’t have come to that. True, the soulless husk in a thousand dollar tie should’ve been put to prison. But violence is the speech of the oppressed who see no other way to fight back.

    It’s just okay to kill through oppression, because it’s “official”, “legal” and “their fault”.

    Luigi is not a hero through the man he allegedly killed. He is a hero because he represents the fury of the people.

    In our side, we welcome discussion on solving the problems that we hear about on a daily basis. But turning a blind eye while people are butchered right in the open will not help anyone.

    • Venia Silente@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      0·
      12 days ago

      Condoning violence is never acceptable

      Tell that to the 210-something States of the World that have constitutional, legal, standing armies.

    • robot_dog_with_gun [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      0·
      17 days ago

      Condoning violence is never acceptable.

      sure it is. I condone Iran’s strikes on US military bases and ships. I condone Palestinian violence against their oppressors. I condoned that guy punching the nazi richard spenser. I retroactively condone a shitton of war violence, mostly against the US other than world war 2.

      and you condone some or all of that too.

    • ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      17 days ago

      Literally every country I know of has a military. Police carry weapons. Sometimes people need to physically defend others. Violence ia culturally accepted everywhere. You should see the rampant soldier worship in the US.

      What fanatasy world exists where there is never a reason for violence?

      This is some stupid smear campaign. Examples or they can fuck off.

    • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      17 days ago

      What do you mean? Violence is acceptable or even good in many cases.

      What do you call it when someone hurts or damages an attacking person until they stop?

      Violence and the capacity to direct it underpins all power in society for good and ill. If you are not protected by it then you are vulnerable to anyone who is willing to use it. Ideally you don’t have to resort to violence but that doesn’t mean that when you do it’s bad.

  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
    0·
    17 days ago

    I ranted about this in another thread some, but I’m with startrek.website here.

    I almost switched to db0 when I first found Lemmy.world and joined it; you guys seemed, ideologically, closest to me. I loved the vibe.

    Communities about Anarchism, Generative AI, Copylefts, Neurodivergence, Filesharing, and Free Software. (And Math!) Follow the Anarchist Code of Conduct and honor the Disengage Rule. Don’t be shitty to each other. Keep it SFW. Obey the spirit of The Golden Rules. Fuck around and find out.

    This is me. I love all of this.

    …But holy hell.

    The bar for calling for explicit violence is basically zero, as long as the target fits the instance’s views. And I’ve watched the admin come in and personally validate that policy in the threads in question.

    I wouldn’t want to touch this instance, either.

    Again, I’m otherwise sympathetic to everything about this instance, yet I think I’d vote for Lemmy.world to defederate from db0 if it ever comes up.

    And I’m not here to debate how I’m apparently not antifascist enough, or shoot down accusations that I’m a pacifist, or whatever.

    I’m sick that.

    And I’m clearly not moving the needle here. I’m not trying to; do what you do. I just thought I’d provide a perspective of someone who was otherwise quite attracted to this community.

    • jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      0·
      15 days ago

      It is always disappointing…

      Its always funny to watch people to try and claim to be part of anarchist groups and completely missing the donkey mask they have on.

    • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      0·
      17 days ago

      Can you give any examples? Because this sounds suspiciously like the post in quarks where an accusation was made, and the evidence is “I’m not willing to provide examples because it goes against my principles.”

    • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOPM
      0·
      17 days ago

      Lol what are you on about mate, what calls to explicit violence? You mean defending ourselves against fascist stormtroopers? Sorry but we ain’t pacifists

    • Confused_Emus@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      0·
      17 days ago

      Speaking as someone who did move from LW to db0, and then subsequently instance blocked lemmy.world and saw the instant improvement in my fediverse experience, I’m also in favor of LW defederating from everyone else.

    • blartcap_@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      0·
      17 days ago

      This entire accusation revolves around an extreme extrapolation from reading the statement “We’re not pacifists” in response to AdmiralPatrick’s insistence that any acceptance of violence is evil, no matter the context. There is no reasonable way to see that statement and jump to “Therefore they glorify and encourage violence” without filling in a lot of blanks with assumptions.

      Curiously, you’re doing it with the exact same language that AdmiralPatrick used, where the exact nature of the targets of the “instance’s views” are.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
        0·
        17 days ago

        I’m just citing my own personal observations interacting with the db0 community. The calls for violance and death were not subtle.

        It has little to do with whatever happened to tesseract; I noticed this trend before that, but all that controversy just bubbled it to the top of my conscious (as it seems to have with that startrek community).

        Curiously, you’re doing it with the exact same language that AdmiralPatrick used, where the exact nature of the targets of the “instance’s views” are.

        If you’re accusing me of being AdmiralPatrick or related to them, I don’t really know how to respond to that. But I’m not, and I’ve been on Lemmy over 2 years so far.

        • blartcap_@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
          0·
          17 days ago

          No, I’m saying that you’re sharing the same flawed tactic: vaguely referencing something that sounds bad but could be easily explicable with the context provided. It’s especially not a great way to go about it right now after Admiral Patrick used it to make accusations that don’t hold up to scrutiny about more than just the dbzero instance, but also blahaj.zone and its admins.

          Like what’s the threshold for “calls of violence and death” here? You also reinforced Admiral Patrick’s idea that it was acceptable only towards people the instance’s admin agreed with. So what are the specific details? Who were these calls for violence and death towards? How intense were they? Are we talking about “Punch Nazis” or “Kill all brown people”? Both are calls for violence and death but are still very different.

      • brucethemoose@lemmy.world
        0·
        17 days ago

        Because when I bring this up, I get replies calling me a fascist sympathizer, and the whole thread barrels towards Godwin’s law.

        You can indulge in that all you want, again, if you wish. I’m not interested in that rabbit hole.

    • Malyca@lemmy.zip
      0·
      17 days ago

      Didn’t this have something to do with the tesseract drama? I think that guy has it out for the anarchists.

      • harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        0·
        17 days ago

        Yes. db0 posted about the blocklist after updating Tesseract for the dbzero instance, basically putting it on blast (as they should have).

        The dev also turned their home page into a ddos enabler, using visitor browsers to send 2000 requests to the dbzero instance.

        Odds are good that this same person was also running the st.w instance.

        • Wobble@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          0·
          17 days ago

          That is unhinged behaviour and that sounds explicitly malicious and WE should defederate from hostile instances that target our infrastructure.

          I’m sure DDOSes are a crime in the jurisdiction they are in and in whatever value system they respect.

      • eldavi@lemmy.mlEnglish
        0·
        17 days ago

        the tesseract guy was also an admin on startrek.website and he has it out for anyone left of him like the piefed creator does.

      • Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        0·
        17 days ago

        In short an entitled frontend developer decided to try censoring a large portion of Lemmy in the app he made. He attempted to hide it but got caught when he blocked our instance and @[email protected] our admin investigated and discovered it. The second he went public about it people were outraged about it, as they should be. What he did is a major overstep on his part to try to dictate moderation on servers he has no control over.

          • Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            0·
            17 days ago

            He doesn’t just want to curate his own community. He wants to censor stuff for everyone else, even on servers which he has no authority to do so. That’s why he tried to hide the changes, including obfuscating the instance block function to say the server isn’t compatible.

              • fervent_apathy@anarchist.nexusEnglish
                0·
                17 days ago

                He ironically claimed it was to allow other people to be seen/heard “through the noise”, and to “save the fediverse” so I’d say it’s more than likely.

                All of which is fine to do from an administered back end… Like dubvee for example (the instance he ran). But I guess that wasn’t good enough, and he felt his will needed to be enforced on other instances also.

            • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works
              0·
              17 days ago

              That’s the irony, a lot of people noted that if he had only been upfront about it, he’d probably have gotten some level of adoption. Instead he burned his bridges with the entire fediverse.

              He did have his own instance with his own blocklist running. Nobody realised quite how extensive the list was at the time. Didn’t have many users though, probably because the place was a barren wasteland after being filtered through all his blocks. That wasn’t good enough for him.

        • Senal@programming.devEnglish
          0·
          17 days ago

          If their parting message is to be believed it’s because they are the last bastion of sanity.

          Can’t link to the original because they added a script that ddos’d an instance they don’t like…you know…like a well adjusted saviour would do.

    • Hildegard (she/her)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      0·
      17 days ago

      Tesseract was a piece of trojan horse malware that purported to be an alternate Lemmy interface. It added a different UI and some features to the web interface of instances that were well liked. However, its true purpose was to secretly add a block list to instances that run it. It blocked instances, and URLs that the developer personally disliked, without telling anyone that it was doing it.

      This drama started when the developer added dbz0 and blahaj to the blocklist, and the dbz0 admins noticed it and blew the whistle.

      This caused Lemmy users to actually read the source code, and they found much more, like a second doubly secret blacklist that tesseract download from the developer’s server at runtime. That list blocked many prominent Lemmy users individually, so naturally many of them took that as a badge of honor and posted about being on the list.

      The developer has continued his public crash out. He’s done many things, like defending his actions using alt accounts, deleting the github to stop nob-malware forks, and posting lengthy supervillian type monologues about why he did it. The most recent one, he claimed to be leaving the fediverse, and posted it to his own website with a script to make any readers DDOS the dbz0 instance as revenge for breaking the story.

      He’s now using his own instance to defederate dbz0 as a continuation of his crashout to get revenge or something. He said he’s left but no probably not.

      That’s about where this whole situation stands. Hope this helps.

  • A404@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    0·
    17 days ago

    If you’re curious, the final straw here was learning that db0 explicitly allows hosting discussions about hurting people

  • Draconic NEO@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    0·
    17 days ago

    I knew the story wouldn’t end with him taking down his own instance. Either it was going to be brought back or he had another one.