Unpopular opinion, but when competing for a scarce resource, everyone pays more because it is more scarce. Then more gets created (at least in the case of power) and the system equalizes.
It would be better if there was a provision to cover the spike for ratepayers for some number of years.
Quebec has it right, citizens pay the cost of production and their price is protected. The power sold to Americans is sold at market price.
Large data centers often pay less than home users (due to economies to scale)
businesses actually pay less for electricity than residentials, they get bulk discounts, residents get hikes.
Data centers that can’t run, don’t eat up electricity
There’s usually usually a power pole near them feeding them with electricity. Shame if something were to happen to it.
It is only aluminum wire after all
More luigi will save us power fantasies for our nightly coping routine?
It would take millions of luigis
Or a few kids with a map of datacenters and a willingness to vandalize some power poles and turn off some water valves.
Or a group of people willing to look to the future when corporstions won’t … dissolve the corporations that bribe the people who will get run out of town for taking those bribes!
The US has ≥330 million people. 😁 🙂
I absolutely cannot figure this out. Isn’t a kwh the same price for everyone? Why would a data center pay less? (I’m not asking anyone to justify the poor decisions of energy companies)
As the other commenter said, they have a limited supply and are expecting us plebeians to be priced out and go without. It’s already happening: https://www.yahoo.com/news/us/articles/virginia-county-tells-workers-switch-002400860.html
If it’s anything like it is here in Victoria (Australia); the price per MWh is recalculated based on supply/demand on a 5 minute basis:
https://www.aemo.com.au/aemo/data/nem/priceanddemand/PRICE_AND_DEMAND_202607_VIC1.csv
That’s because when supply outruns demand, surplus electricity is basically worthless and wholesalers need to pay someone to take it - we have long stretches of time, even during winter, where our domestic solar production saturates the demand, resulting in our Feed-in tariffs (what homes get paid for surplus production) has dropped to 1c/kWh, except for certain edge cases).
The bulk of the cost incurred is due to peak-energy generation (gas turbine, I believe?) ramping up to cover peak evening times.
These costs are aggregated and amortised over total demand, to balance out people’s energy bills.
This has been a bit of a tangent, but I found this interesting when I first learned it, and just wanted to share!
It’s more that everyone pays more including the data center even. It could also be related to non-generation costs such as building additional distribution infra which can be regulated as a shared cost even though the data center pays for all extra generation.
Everyone on the power exchange. Consumers don’t pay the exchange price. They pay a premium to the company that transforms exchange power to household power on a virtual sheet of paper.
Isn’t a kwh the same price for everyone?
Not sure why you’d assume this
People tend to like to imagine the world is fair and just.
Folks who are saying the price is going up because of demand are technically right but it’s kinda misleading. People get mad when they don’t understand their bills so I wanna add to that:
With more demand in the system, more distribution equipment is used and will need more maintenance. Your electric bill has fixed fees and usage fees. The fixed fees include the cost of capital upgrades, which cover these costs. It’s not a direct 1:1 cost for each connection, as the upstream feed capacity needs to increase too.
Cost per KW may go up too, it depends on the way your utility is set up. Time of day pricing is meant to encourage offsetting costs and sometimes large customers pay proportional to the contribution to peak demand.
It doesn’t help that this increase in demand comes when so much of the grid is old as fuck in north america. But we live in interesting times.
Data centers forcing grid upgrades is all the more reason their rates should be higher. They should be paying 100% of those capital upgrade costs, too!
Okay these are literally things that you can vote for you need to find out who regulates energy rates and get on their ass
Definitely a smart move letting those power utilities be privatised, even a regulation forcing cost price power for residents would have been better than full privatisation. I’m so glad my state never got sucked into letting that happen here.
It may well be the same price for the data center too, but now that there’s significantly more load on the network and there’ve been no changes to network capacity the price is being adjusted to reconcile the new demand with existing supply.
Fortunately, Oregon seems to have figured out how to handle this. This was in my feed, literally right under this post.
but reducing customers rate by 1.3% isnt that much, it should be 30%
Our rates haven’t gone up by much lately. The rates have kept more in line with the stupid inflation.
Clout. Aura. Bargaining force. Call it whatever you want, really. Corporations are big, they have capital, capital is power. They can hire people to influence politics, pushing for people who are on their side to get elected by funding campaigns, and naturally bribe people on the down low.
Stick, along with the other people served by their provider, most likely don’t have the ability to pay people to lobby for them full time. Most people barely have the money to keep their personal economy going, and spend a significant portion of their time just making that happen. As a result, the corporations who are benefiting from this sit on all the power, because they can influence public opinion as well, painting their politics as beneficial to private individuals, even if that’s a complete lie.
That is why democracy and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible. Workers could band together and claim power, but they’re kept in situations where doing that just isn’t feasible.
Things won’t get better without some kind of revolution. The balance of power is tipped so far in favour of the corporations that no matter how much time or money workers spend (neither of which we have) trying to better things, they’ll never get even close to what the corpos can swing with.
they get a wholesale/bulk rate which is far cheaper than residential, we atually pay for any datacenter, business in the end.
Isn’t a kwh the same price for everyone?
Perversely, no. Large industrial users often get a bulk rate that’s cheaper than the household rate.
Happy cake day, BTW.
Same as with RAM prices. There is a limited supply and the datacenters are hogging it, possibly willing to pay extra because the entire bubble depends on MORE MORE MORE, or willing to bulk purchase the entire contingent in advance.
Now if you are a power supplier you find yourself in the comfortable position of being financially courted by the datacenter corps, and you have a captured audience of consumers who rely on you supplying them, who you can now justifiably bleed out, and if they cant pay you just sell it to the datacenter after all.
That is actually very sick behavior.
To you or I, surely, but to an MBA it’s just business as usual.
This is America.
Capitalism is essentially based on the concept that everyone doing whatever they believe is in their best interest will magically balance itself out and achieve the most-efficient outcome, instead of the most self-serving and greedy criminals and psychopaths colluding to exploit and deceive the masses, accrue the lions share, and enslave everyone else.
It’s basically a religiously-dogmatic mental illness that has no place beyond the 19th Century, but the criminals and psychopaths used their wealth to exploit and deceive the masses… so here we are. May the greediest psychopath win!
How the fuck should a loan program help paying for monthly recurring costs?!
“Capitalism breeds innovation”
Meanwhile we have monthly installments for monthly installments.
the more I’m debt you get the more you owe them,
Short term it pads the companies books a bit more by adding an asset on top of the revenue. Medium term it’s a perpetual impairment generator. The executives are just planning to cash out before the inevitable happens.
It helps people who can still pay on average but have an unexpected cost which, due to higher bills, now pushes them into the red.
Well, in the past (and the present in many places) perpetual unrepayable debts were used as a way to implement slavery without calling it slavery. They call it debt peonage. You know, food for thought.
I guess they cover you for a while until you figure it out. It’s better than nothing ig.
It’s really not. What it does is trap these people in endless debt. Now we don’t know any details about these loans, but there’s no way in hell the customers aren’t going to be paying fees and interest. A loan of $40 will be a loan of $100 the next month and so on. This is a way to make extra off of the people who have nothing.
That’s more than 1200% interest. Even loan sharks don’t do that.
That example is assuming you’ll accrue another $40 next month. The interest numbers are pulled from my ass to make a point.
In the corporate world, if you are taking on debt to fund operations, that’s an indicator that your business is circling the drain. The same applies to personal finance.
Because in the summer people run the AC more than they can afford and rack up like $300 bills when their off-summer average would normally be like $70. The loan programs are more like a deferred payment plan where they will cap the individual monthly payment at $150 or something, and then just push the surplus onto other future bills. Then usually when you close the account you owe them a bunch of money still, and that’s when they start doing things like offering to set you up with loan services.
How’s all that freedom, 'Murica?
Privatized profits, socialized cost. That’s the “free market”.
A data center that has been burned down won’t need power
This gets extra sick when you remember many places in the west will declare a house legally condemned if you dont have power… Even if you have solar panels…
You can have totally functional power in the home and be self sufficient but you /still/ have to be connected to the grid and paying for that.
And often these jacked up prices impact you, even if you arent using the power at all.
What if a homeowner was connected but only drew a few kilowatt∙hrs a month, and meet the rest of their electrical needs with solar?
The point is that the connection is not free. There is a base connection charge even if you don’t draw any power.
Let me tell you about my legally required cable.
We do have trickle down economies!
What do you mean? To transfer wealth of the working class to the Epstein class of course! What a silly question…
So, this looks like “Something awful, that I don’t need, is increasing my energy prices”. A more accurate version would probably look like “Something really useful that I use all the time is increasing my energy prices”.
Whenever you see social media posts that demonise data centers just bear in mind all the foreign powers who are working hard to make you hate data centers.
Oh fuck off. Don’t tell me we’ve got corpo shill bots on Lemmy too now💀
LMFAO
yeah that’s about as hilarious an article as I expected from an outlet called “btcpolicy”
To anyone with an interest in critical thinking just Google who the Bitcoin Policy Institute is and make your own mind up. Or you know… go with the glib soundbite. Up to you lol
You think a Bitcoin based outlet is not biased on power usage and individual economic growth over society’s? Good critical thinking
Google “are foreign powers trying to turn people against data centers?” I’ll wait…
Again, there’s a lot of crap on Google.
I’m cheering for them, yea. If you think it’s those pesky Chinese and Russians, those “foreign powers” include the UN and most other countries btw.
But I’m sure it’s just because they don’t understand the American economic genius. Anyway all of this is not a problem because the real solution is datacenters in space right?
There’s a lot of crap on Google, but no article about this “Bitcoin Policy Institute” in WP.
So I did as commanded
“BPI provides the research, education, and expertise necessary to help America lead in the digital asset revolution while protecting consumers and preserving individual liberty.”
They sound just lovely and definitely have all our best interests at heart. And totally not bitcoin shills, nosiree.
Nice cherry picking… Allow me:
BPI operates as a 501©(3) nonprofit with research and editorial independence. The core team consists of around 25 fellows, advisors, and full-time professionals, including:
Grant McCarty: Executive Director
Matthew Pines: Director of Special Programs / Senior Fellow
Sam Lyman: Head of Research (formerly of the U.S. Treasury Department)
David Zell: PresidentThe institute acts as an educational and advisory resource for lawmakers, regulators, and the media.
Direct Engagement: BPI regularly briefs Congressional members and agency staff, provides expert testimonies, and shapes federal and state legislation.
Congressional Fellowship: BPI operates a fellowship program to train policymakers and their staff on the fundamentals of Bitcoin technology and policy.
Bitcoin Policy Summit: BPI hosts an annual flagship conference in Washington, D.C., that brings together regulators, researchers, and industry leaders to discuss digital asset policy.
Who funds them?
The fossil fuel industry, crypto bros, Kevin O’Leary, and other MAGA riff-raff?
Is this cherry picking too? 682df013e55cf277195c3034_BPI Policy Manifesto 20 May 2025.pdf https://share.google/fUP3qeJbPSQI0yCuP in which the title is literally “BITCOIN POLICY INSTITUTE A Comprehensive Policy Framework for U.S. Leadership on Bitcoin Zack Shapiro” sorry about the Google share, can’t find it linked anywhere else. In this policy recommendation they advocate for establishing a US Bitcoin strategic reserve. C’mon now, spin that one as it being for protection of the little guy.
Shilling for data centers puts you on the same dumbass level as Kevin O’Leary and Peter Thiel who spout bullshit like “the Pope is serving the Chinese communist agenda for doubting AI”.
Classic mischaracterization of my intent there. Keep going lol
What is your intent?
Well it isn’t to “Shill for data centers” but I suspect you knew that already. Honestly, nobody is reading this anymore unless it’s their job, so this is just a conversation between us. I get fed up with these echo chambers. They’re so pointless since everyone already agrees with each other and sensible people just stay away anyway, but it’s still annoying that so few people challenge these talking points. “Data center bad”, “Won’t someone think of the water?!”, “AI is secretly a plan to enslave us all” etc.
My intent was to challenge these things and see who would respond genuinely and who would just stick to the script. It’s been quite interesting. Also, honestly it felt good not to be intimidated or spun out in a thread full of sarcasm, ridicule, ad hominem attacks etc.
As for the downvotes, oh well… Most of the rest of my time here is generally positive. Sometimes though it feels good to stand up and say what I think, even if it costs some fake internet points lol
Okay.
The thing is that I’m in Toronto—the same city that Kevin O’Leary’s from—and while my view of him was never great, it took a deep dive in 2024 when IIUC he agreed that Canada should join the US, and now he’s going on about critics of data centers being fronts for the Chinese (even though I’m sure he’s dealt with the Chinese in preference to North American businesses at times).
Further, as one who for the most part doesn’t agree with “intellectual property” I’m kind of with the Chinese on this one as I don’t consider the “theft” of IP a big problem, and resent the US government insisting that we (Canada) should tighten up (I think we should go far in the opposite direction);
and while I’m anti-CPC, I tire of the Sinophobia, such as O’Leary’s use of it, so when you started to sound like him, I, and probably others here, thought, “Oh no, here we go again.”
(btw, I didn’t downvote you: I rarely downvote people)
What does responding genuinely mean to you? Is it so hard to believe that people, especially those on here, hate data centers? To me it seems like your intent was just to confirm your view that the place is an echo chamber. Hearing “yeah it’s all Chinese bots everything is actually great 👍” is what you wanted to find?
“Won’t someone think of the water?!”
I… Did you really type that sentence?
“Using facts that happen to be true”
Domestic powers are working hard to make you love data centers
Won’t someone please think of the data centers.
*links to a “Bitcoin Policy Institute”
sounds legit.
:-/
WHY is everyone so ANGRY at This? It’s the EXACT same Thing that Happens when your Neighbors have a HUGE Power Hungry weekend! EVERYONE Pays an Increase INSTEAD of JUST your Neighbor! I’ve NEVER had to Pay MORE for a Bill when I’ve used MORE Energy! It’s ALWAYS Distributed to EVERYONE instead!
Bro, what are you going to do about this? Share it on the internet? Sure yea will solve nothing.
Wow bro, you’re so smart. Clearly once someone posts something to the Internet that is the only action they are taking. And clearly posting to the Internet is only as effective at communicating the problem as putting up posters for thousands of people to read.
What should we do about it OP not knowing your super-smart insight here? Reply to their post about it?
I believe it’s time to start mass protests worldwide l, but hey, let our feature be destroyed.
Loobying is bribery.
I participate in the “residential smart thermostat rewards” program where they can adjust my temps during high demand periods. In the past it has been like if it’s 100F out they will bump my settings from 77 to 79 which is not a big deal and gets me like two weeks of free electricity.
This year those mother fuckers have been bumping the thermostat up to like 86 when it’s 87 outside. Gee I wonder what the fucking difference is now? I can reject their temp settings in the app, but I can only do it like three times before they cancel my rewards. I’m half tempted to go wire up a little Arduino in series with the thermostat so I can control the AC without touching the smart thermostat if needed.
I had a similar deal (I actually got a free Nest thermostat out of it), but eventually I disabled that feature. Instead, I now use a fixed temperature upper bound that is at the edge of my comfortable range. Of course, this is because I can afford to run the air conditioning when it gets that hot.
This is honestly the first year I’ve even noticed the events. Previously I’d notice the email like a few days later and check the logs to see what they did. This was the first time where I was just at home and felt noticeably uncomfortable and checked the thermostat to see they’d set it to 86F which is outrageous. Its pissing me off enough that I want to cheat the system instead of just opt out, because like… The fucking audacity.
