inspired by lemmitors at https://lemmy.ml/post/49343381
any guy in it just for women to wear skimpier clothing should probably be investigated.
“I can’t go outside without wearing a head covering.”
“Head coverings are now illegal.”
“Now I can’t go outside.”
This makes the world more fair and equitable.
Here’s a wild idea, instead of making clothing illegal, why don’t we make coercing people into a manner of dress illegal?
I’m having difficulty parsing this. Are you saying “we should ban religions from coercive headgear” or “we shouldn’t ban clothing”? Cause those are contradictory positions and I’m not certain what you’re trying to say (which is probably entirely on me)
We shouldn’t ban clothing. We should ban the coercion of anyone to wear particular clothing.
There’s no contradiction here.
Exactly. I knew a woman in college who wore hijab. Apparently in high school she didn’t, and her family always treated it as her choice. She chose it because of the racism and anti muslim mistreatment she faced making her embrace it as a fuck you to the mistreatment. It made sense to me, though it saddened me how much harassment she had faced. How she dressed wasn’t my problem, and I was always more focused on the brain under her hijab than the hair.
I dislike such cultural expressions of modesty, and I worry about cultural pressure towards them. They remind me too much of my baptist cousins. But I firmly oppose the government or society intervening in how people dress. So long as every person old enough to choose for themselves is permitted to, my opinions are my problem.
Yes we sit here in our western comfort zone judging Muslims. We think: the women shouldn’t have to cover up to avoid inflaming the sexual passions of men. The men should just control themselves! Meanwhile western women are hammered by the male gaze all day long and assaulted with sexual violence and killed all too commonly. Yet we somehow can’t imagine why a reasonable woman might actually want to cover up, and consider that safer, more freeing. And then we go and ban her cover. It’s just gob smacking blind stupid.
You say that as if covering up made a women safer and not just as much under the ‘male gaze’. Muslim women are also sexually assaulted, sometimes with the pertetrator knowing that she would face more reprecussions than he would if she complained.
I say that as if she knows better than either of us and it’s up to her.
Ban anyone for coercing someone into or out of clothing.
Granted, I haven’t put a major amount of thought into the nuance, but the idea of making it a sin for some people to legally go outside is absurd.
The approach of these laws makes it so the victims of mistreatment are the ones breaking the law.
It’s like making it illegal to be homeless or illegal to have been mugged. It’s fucking outlandish.
Yeah, but that doesn’t really clarify, though. Does that mean that a woman could wear a hijab or burqa under your rule?
If they want to, yes.
My mother was undergoing some weird medical treatment that made her skin super sensitive to UV radiation. She was in full sleeves and a vest and gloves and a hat and facescarf and everything covered everywhere. I sincerely recommended to her a hijab or burqa because it would make going out easier. A couple main articles of clothing, maybe sunglasses and gloves, and she would be fine. Unfortunately the religious element of it put her off too much, but clothes are clothes.
We shouldn’t police women’s clothing.
Nobody was ever kill for wearing hijab A lot were killed for taking him off. Your false equivalence is revolting.
islamophobic murders exist and people absolutely get attacked and harassed for wearing a hijab. You ignoring the racism in your own country in order to brow-beat a region under constant attack under the guise of “human rights” is what’s revolting.
If I get attack wearing a cross around my neck is it automatically christianophobic ? It s not and it s highly dismissive and dishonest to pretend so. Also accord yourself on the point that I’m talking about religion not race.
Everyone believes they’re choosing freely, especially when they’re choosing what their culture taught them to want.
am i freely choosing to wear pants or just indoctrinated by the society i was raised in? if i moved somewhere they donald duck it would i assimilate or continue to wear pants?
i know suit guys who will dress up even if they’re not leaving the house and that’s real weird to me but it’s not muddied by being imposed on an axis of oppression or whatever.
Clothing (pants) is very much not natural and indeed only enforced by society. If one knows about various indigenous people around the world, one knows pants are not universal.
I actually, in this heat, would love not to have to wear pants or anything really. I’m naked at home all the time. However, if I went outside it’d be indecent.
That applies to literally everyone and doesn’t justify anything, men are no less or more immune, and the choice should be the one who is or would be wearing or not wearing a given piece of clothing on whether they do or don’t wear it. Neither men nor the state should be taking the agency for women to decide for themselves what to or to not wear.
At best this makes your comment unrelated, random, and pointless, as it says nothing. But we both know you are actually providing cover for the misogynist view that women shouldn’t be able to decide for themselves. It’s not exactly subtle, not even slightly, in fact it is infuriating. So please, look deep inside yourself, reflect, and STOP!
Yes you’re absolutely right, anyone of any gender should be able to wear or not wear what they want.
My point was more philosophical. It is indeed random and pointless, but I find it interesting to think of things like this. You may not find this interesting or read something misogynist into this, which was definitely far from what I meant so I’m sorry for offending you.
Please consider the context and read the room in the future, (or in this case the OP picture for which the thread is about) the time and place of such commentary also changes it’s apparent character. Water under the bridge. 🙃
The room was empty when I commented. Anything can be read in bad character when you try hard enough.
They are not deciding for themselves. That’s the point. Although banning is also not the solution either, I agree.
I generally wear what’s most comfortable for me. Sometimes I’ll “dress up” for stuff where it’s socially still “required” like job interviews or weddings, but even that is rare for me.
Yet you don’t wear 16th century Shakespearean clothes to work because you don’t live in 16th century England
please don’t talk like you know me
If they were available and comfortable, I might. Where the hell am i supposed to get them?
I actually had a few gowns in such a design. They were very fun to wear!
oh my friend! Evangeline’s (the costume store in Sacramento) just reopened! I can’t speak to comfortable but I can speak to where.
I live on the east coast, so I’ll just stick to the stuff I can get locally. It’s comfortable.
Edit: Thank you, though. If I ever find myself in Sacramento, I’ll have to look the place up
You must be at a boring workplace, we have several goths and one lady who daily wears renaissance era clothing and is big on renaissance fairs and medieval combat.
If it’s not a health and safety risk, who cares. I mean flip flops and a budgie smuggler are not appropriate to wear on a factory floor.
my favorite job, favorite boss, our dress code was “if you can get here without getting arrested it’s fine”. the day i showed up dressed like i was going to the beach (because guess what i was doing at noon) the boss came back and said “okay, new rule, if i have a client coming in you need to at least have pants and shoes on”
Me, a hijabi, opening that thread for all of 10 seconds
there is such an amazing video by Lady Izdihar that would be extremely relevant but I can’t find it 😔
Lady Izdihar rules.
Don’t you know you’re oppressed! Please call me a white knight please!
I’m sure there will be well-balanced and nuanced discussion from the men of Lemmy on choice feminism and women’s oppression! I’m sure of it! /s
Last time I tried explaining (not defending) the hidjab ban in French public schools with a well balanced argumentation, my comment was deleted; so I won’t try anymore and we won’t have a discussion. I was expecting more from Lemmy
Last time I tried explaining why Jews had to wear a yellow star during the Holocaust with a well balanced argumentation, my comment was deleted; so I won’t try anymore and we won’t have a discussion. I was expecting more from Lemmy
You proved my point, no discussion
Well thanks for announcing to the class that you have an opinion that you refuse to share.
Wooo, that very first mod comment on your mod log is enough for me hahaha
reason: Bothsidesing genocide
Fucking yikes, dude
But it is a nuanced issue that requires consideration of multiple truths and sometimes contradicting world views.
Yes, something that the men of Lemmy are known for when it comes to discussing these types of issues. Notorious even.
Is the /s not a well known indicator of sarcasm?
we could expect more form our communities, but I know what you are saying
Oh believe me, I’m aware. I’m not the one to constantly disappoint on these topics, I’m just observing what happens here.
This topic would be much more interesting to discuss in a community with more diversity.
That thread was so ew
I’ll freely own the fact that I’m a western, white, woman and can never fully understand the cultural and greater context surrounding the choice as to why a Muslim woman, or a woman of any religion, creed, race, upbringing, etc would desire to wear a piece of clothing that would to me, with my cultural and greater context, be a symbol of my oppression.
The cool part is that I don’t have to understand why she would make such a choice, to support her right to make such a choice.
If you want to support womens rights, you can’t go around trying to restrict us. If you are concerned that women who are making these choices are doing so under indoctrination, coercion, etc, then instead channel your energy into making sure they, and all women, have safe places and resources to address those things.
The cool part is that I don’t have to understand why
On most social issues, this is exactly what should be going on in everyone’s head. So many people are about punishing what they don’t understand, but it almost always backfires.
If we wanted to address communitarianism and extremism in secular society we would do better than criminalizing people’s harmless religious expression.
Absolutely this, agree 100%
It’s also ew that they pretend advertising and propaganda to change minds of muslims wouldn’t work. It totally would. You just need a good campaign specifically targeted to the patriarchs and matriarchs to make more liberal attitudes to clothing fashionable. It would totally work.
And at the same time work against the influence spreading of Saudi Arabia pushing their extremist wahabism schools. That’s where they should use the hammer.
Every woman has the choice to wear what she want, but the key is if she had a choice
VS
This is framing of women in western clothing as more progressive vs women in hijab/chador is incredibly racist. It relies on Islamophobic stereotypes that play Islam as a less advanced civilization when compared to the rest. Please do not forget that the Iranian revolution that got rid of the shah was an internal, peoples revolution against a hostile empires marionette. The ayatollah was the synthesis of contradictions inherent to Iranian society and depicting current Iranian society as regressive compared to the Iranian society under the shah is effectively saying that westerners “know better” what the Iranian people need than the Iranian people themselves. This is racist. Whatever point you want to make against theocracy is lost in all the racist baggage that comes with the image.
Not discussing the racism part but the Iranian revolution was actually two-folds, like the Russian revolution. The first revolution was brought by a vast array of people, from islamists to communists. Many people hoped to keep their progressive way of life and to get political freedom on top if it. Way they got is a second revolution in the form of a swift consolidation of Khomeini’s power and a theocracy, with political assassinations and vice squads.
What ever problems the Iranians have is their own to figure out and solve unless they explicitly ask for help, and certainly not from Imperialist Liberals from the Global North playing white savior for the “poor, helpless, primitive SaVaGeS” in the form of more Western bombs dropping on their Childrens heads to “free” them (from this mortal coil) like you’re doing them a favor and should thank you for it. /s
Womens rights is when literacy rate is 20%
Yeah ok.
Womens rights is when 19% child mortality rate
Oppression is when life expectancy go up
Why compare with allied dictatorships with even worse reputation and not democracies?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/life-expectancy?time=1974..latest&country=JPN~KOR~CHE~SWE~ISR~IRN
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/child-mortality?time=1994..latest&country=USA~SWE~FRA~IRN~RUS~JPN
“Democracies” and you put Japan, S Korea, and the zionist child-killing cancer on it.
Does Japan not have a functioning democracy? And what’s wrong with Korea?
If you’re going to say Iraq and Pakistan are dictatorships then you’d have to be an unashamed hypocrite to say Japan, functionality a one party state, isn’t.
You see, a democracy 😇 is when a country is operating as a forward military base for the US empire. 15 military bases and 55,000 US troops in Japan and 28,000 US troops in S Korea are just there to protect democracy 😇 from authoritarian China 😡 And DPRK 😡
And fake settler colony that has been committing genocide with US-made weapons since its invention is also very good democracy 😇
Anyways. Comparing health outcomes of countries that are economic beneficiaries of imperialist looting with a country under siege from imperialism is not making the point you think it is making.
Please take your zionism and leave.
Something I notice about all these spaces. When I post facts about Islamic resistance, instead of people asking something “wow thats actually incredible, do you know how they did this incredible thing?” We end up stuck in a pattern of having literally the same conversations trying to explain basic concepts.
I know that I’m impressed when I see these statistics. Maybe thats because hijab made me stupid and oppressed 🤪 🫠
The reality of the Islamic resistance is so shrouded in mystery due to Islamophobia that it’s impossible for many to see their accomplishments as nothing more than a coincidence, which is ironically an anti-materialist way of viewing the world.
which is ironically an anti-materialist way of viewing the world.
Right. Couldn’t have said it better myself. The leadership of the resistance is way more rooted in real existing circumstances.
For example, one might ask about how the Islamic Revolution improved womens literacy so much in such a short period of time. Well, the leadership was aware that Iranian women of all ages and social/economic classes attended the mosque. So they set up womens reading programs in all the mosques, urban and rural. And women teachers were paid to run these programs for everyone from kids to grandmother’s. Seems pretty smart to me. Using the character of the masses as a way to promote social good rather than trying to mold them into whatever westernized ideation. Seems pretty rooted in materialism to me!
As you said though, such a thing gets shrouded in myth. The Iranians, the Palestinians, the Lebanese… portrayed as simultaneously magically resilient and well organized while also backwards in need of secularization. I dont have the words for this dualism but maybe you see what Im getting at.
I dont have the words for this dualism but maybe you see what Im getting at.
It reminds me of the noble savage trope, but perhaps there is a more apt comparison.
I was getting at it in the news mega thread where Shia Islam was discussed but until people take time to study the history of Islam at large, as well as of Shia specifically, it is impossible to have an accurate analysis of the resistance movement. Shia history has revolutionary sentiment built into the lineage, it reminds me a lot of Juche, with generations of revolutionaries passing down a revolutionary history long before marx was around to describe dialectical materialist analysis. The conditions demanded a revolutionary sentiment and a revolutionary analysis and that is within the DNA of the movement, continuing on into today. Repression has prevented Marxism from being as popular in the Ummah as it once was and will be again but revolutionary and liberatory sentiment within Islam predates Marxism and can be repressed but never removed.
In the 1971 pic those on the top are bazaari, women of the rich merchant class who are the ones that paid to crush the student socialist rebellion and bring in the Ayatollah from Qom.
Two pics mean nothing bro, do you think there are not women like in the picture above currently? And if that were the case, what do you think it happened in Iran during the '70’s that caused this “issue” when it comes to religion? ahh, yeah, it’s always the us empire.
It don’t change anything, in any case is there a difference if a woman has the chois to wear a jihab or is forced to wear one.
What is a jihab?
Did you know Reza Shah threw acid on women wearing the chador to force them to wear western clothing? You have no fucking idea what you are talking about
I know this case, but it also change nothing of what I said, the difference between having the option to wear what you want and being forced to wear what other want. In extremis like in the case which you mencioned, irrelevant if it is a chador, hijab or western clothes. if it is against what the women want.
The whole point is that it is a choice in Iran, it is not compulsory. Go to Iran right now and you will see women choosing not to cover their hair, walking around with the same fashion sense that you’d see in Venice Beach or NYC. There are women walking around in jean shorts and no head covering in Tehran every day without an issue.
I’m from South Spain and here are living a lot of muslim immigrants. As you say, a lot of women which cover their hair and others not. Normally they cover their hair when they are married. But same asin some other countries, it’s their decision, because religion or tradition to do it, when nobody is forcing to do it by drastic laws, like in some islamic theocracies where they don’t have a choice.
In Iran the law was recently paused and because of this, naturally some women don’t wear the hijab, but in other countries they are even forced to wear an burka without any liberty of choice. As said, it’s different to have a choice or to be forced by others.
Iran has paused the implementation of a new, stricter law requiring women to wear the hijab, an official said, with many observers believing that the bill could have sparked mass protests similar to those that erupted after the 2022 death of Mahsa Amini.
The controversial law, approved by Iran’s parliament in September 2023, will not be sent to the government this week as planned, according to Shahram Dabiri, vice president in charge of parliamentary affairs. The development effectively means that Iran has halted enacting the legislation.
https://www.euronews.com/2024/12/18/iran-pauses-implementation-of-stricter-hijab-law-for-women
Yes in some places there are conservatives due to the way that colonialism and imperialism has impacted the world but as far as Iran goes, your quote shows that the people of Iran were sufficiently progressive to reject an attempt by some conservatives to push a conservative agenda. They were defeated in this attempt by the masses who are still overwhelmingly Muslim, but understand that the Quran says hijab is voluntary because it explicitly states religion cannot be compulsory.
No one here has defended it being compulsory, Muslims by and large are not pushing for it to be compulsory, and those that do are embodying a reactionary mindset imposed on them via colonialism and imperialism. Instead of focusing on what Muslims do and don’t do it would be better to focus on ending capitalism so that people everywhere have more freedom from oppressive power structures, access to education and the ability to make decisions from a place of clarity and stability
But you understand right that the majority of the cases where people are enforcing dress on women it is people forcing western clothing on them? Do you not understand the hypocrisy of posting an image like what you did and saying that this has to be what the women want but implying that they want the thing that is repeatedly forced on them? The people in Iran chose this government with revolution and they have a constitutional democracy, they need to be empowered to work within their system. By posting pictures of women under the Shah wearing American clothes and implying this is best you are simply supporting imperialism against them
Yes, I understand perfectly, but it isn’t the same. I know that society, fashion and other influences can push a women th use some clothings, but she isn’t really forced by law to do it, she always has the choice, it’s different in countries where a women is drastically punished if she don’t wear a hijab or even a burka, even if she don’t want to wear it. Sorry if YOU don’t see the difference.
Thanks for letting me about a new worthless account to block
Same energy lol https://youtu.be/gE2OzGfIDLQ
Zerush is very concerned about jihab and Muslamic ray guns 😔
i didnt understand what you tried to say
What a rabbithole to go down.
I agree no one should have the right tell someone else what to wear, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t a tool of oppression in other cultures
Brown people culture bad amiright?
I absolutely did not say that, nor do I believe that in the slightest
You have no idea about other cultural norms and attires. Is the western man being oppressed when he has to wear a tie and suit to the office in order to keep his job? Do we free him from this oppression by ostracizing him or making it illegal for wearing a tie?
You know, this is a fair point, but there’s a few differences.
Not all jobs require a suit, there’s a lot of choice (you could get through life never wearing one). Its also only required during working hours. Not around the clock. Women have been killed over these expectations. Its not the same.
Women have been killed over these expectations
Is that really what you think muslims support?? Can you not conceive of people wanting to wear a hijab?? And even if not, why is it so hard to accept that it’s just a fact when they say it??
Well if they don’t support it, they get “honour” killed. Sooo do they really want it, or do they just want to live?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/world/articles/iranian-singer-sentenced-74-lashes-191112823.html
“they” are just a gray mass to you aren’t they? “They” clearly aren’t individuals in your eyes but a cudgel to wield against west asians under the pretense of human rights. Hundreds of millions of women all the same to you because they arent european…
Oh, sorry. Let me try that again. Hijab wearing women are forced to wear hijabs because their religion calls for them to be killed if they’re not wearing a hijab, some hijab wearing women would like to wear a hijab but other hijab wearing women would prefer not too, although they’re still forced to if they would like to stay alive.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/world/articles/iranian-singer-sentenced-74-lashes-191112823.html
Hijab wearing women are forced to wear hijabs because their religion calls for them to be killed if they’re not wearing a hijab
this is just wrong.
I can conceive of an individual woman wanting to wear one. However every woman I have known who wears one does because she must if she is to follow her religion and her society’s norms and her family’s dictates which would indicate that she doesn’t actually have the choice not to. I tend to believe that Muslim woman have a choice when they choose not to wear one because they often face abuse from other Muslims.
Is the western man being oppressed when he has to wear a tie and suit to the office in order to keep his job?
Suits are expensive and unnecessary. Some people (i.e. autistic) might have sensory difficulties when they wear them. If someone is vegan, most suits aren’t so it further restricts what they can wear and they have to worry more about differences in look due to the stricter dress code. Fortunately, being restricted only while working certain jobs isn’t as bad as being restricted in all public spaces.
Do we free him from this oppression by ostracizing him or making it illegal for wearing a tie?
No
But is he being oppressed?
Yes
Alright! So we agree that ostracizing people or making it illegal for them to wear what they wear is not going to lead to a more free society?
I already said that
Then I don’t know what you were trying to say with your original comment other than agreeing with me?
Civil rights according to liberals :
You are looking for the word “conservatives”
Conservatives don’t need their consent manufactured to go bomb people. This is for liberals. This is to make them believe that they need to save people by bombing them.
No, I have never needed this. Your boogieman, “the liberal” is made up. I don’t know where you got this idea from.
Literally every foreign engagement since Iraq
You are having an imaginary enemy that you call as “liberals” which is the cause of all bad things. You can hate liberals, but please first know what does it mean to be liberal. Liberal means liberalism like, or somebody liking liberalism. Which is associated with capitalism.
You are not using the right word. It’s like saying you hate dogs because they fly above you and shit on your clothes. That’s the wrong animal. It’s just dumb.
Because liberals are left-wing or right-wing when it suits them.
Left and right is also country/era dependent. It still says nothing.
Liberals in my country often echo the same themes as the right-wing.
Oh look a Strawman!
This is propaganda.
Lmfao I even linked where I saw that argument but don’t even bother with it you can just scroll further down. Everything is propaganda.
My mistake, I misread this and thought you were arguing for the opposite.
Again with the arguement about women’s rights for women who represent a religion that doens’t believe in women’s rights. In fact, the more women in a country that have the ‘right’ to wear Muslim head coverings, the more likely they do not have the right not to wear them or any other human rights for that matter. Which may be why ‘Western’ women are against those religious symbols in countries that have at least some progress on women’s rights. I would rather some women cannot wear head coverings than for all women to become citizens without any rights like they are in many Muslim countries. I would ban each and every religious symbol in public places. Almost every war on the planet was/is propagated by using religion to recruit its supporters and soldiers.
How about the state not forcing a dresscode at all?
In fact, the more women in a country that have the ‘right’ to wear Muslim head coverings, the more likely they do not have the right not to wear them or any other human rights for that matte
Forcing a dresscode on women is human rights. You heard it here first folks
Almost every war on the planet was/is propagated by using religion to recruit its supporters and soldiers.
What no theory does to a mf
Jesus Christ do y’all come out of the woodwork for this. Blathering on about “great replacement” type shit, literally indistinguishable from the type of stuff you’d see on Fox News.
In fact, if you educated your racist ass about actual facts and history, there have been plenty of progressive Islamic societies, they just tended to get overthrown by the CIA. The more fundamentalist tendencies were promoted as more reliably anti-communist.
The notion that Western societies are in any danger whatsoever of turning to Islamic extremism is completely, laughably absurd, a racist, far-right conspiracy theory. The idea that women dressing a certain way would cause that is on par with people who say that gay people cause hurricanes.
These threads have shown that the whole fediverse needs to get way more ban-happy. Go back to Reddit with that shit, you are not welcome here.
It’s like making it illegal for women to wear makeup and thinking you “freeing them of cultural values originating from patriarchy.”
NOT forcing a specific gender to look a specific way shouldn’t be this hard.
Americans scrapped Roe vs Wade but think bikini = equality
i’m so happy i wasn’t born in one of those misogynistic shitholes
america may suck but at least i can dress as slutty as i want here
a) that really depends on where in amerikkka you are
b) this is exactly about women dressing up as slutty as they want which might include not at all
c) claiming that the US is not a misogynistic shithole is absolutely laughable racist arroganceI think this is post is also about places like France trying to dictate that Muslim women can’t wear hijabs in certain places (namely pools).
The whole idea of wearing a piece of clothing for some god is cringe as fuck.
Calling what others like to do “cringe” is the cringiest thing of them all
Cringe must of course be eradicated by the state.
true, but forcing someone not to wear something by law doesn’t address the cringe. the problem is the force, not the clothes.
basically same logic as banning people from sleeping on the streets = solving homelessness
A Turkish acquaintance of mine from a long time ago introduced me to the idea of reform Islam. I didn’t know that it existed, but she was a practitioner. She didn’t wear a hijab, she swore when she felt like it, and she wore shorts when it was hot outside. Her prayers were usually sitting quietly and humming to herself when her phone alarm went off. Whenever we did an art project, she’d do this big long prayer to dedicate it.
Nice girl. Hope she’s doing okay.
Idk how it’s so difficult for westerners to understand that not all Muslims who consider themselves practicing Muslims observe all parts of the faith. There’s so many Catholics who disregard lent, hardly anybody listens to the dietary restrictions, there’s almost none who acknowledge Jesus’ teachings on wealth. Do all Catholics choose not to use condoms? Do all of them have the same opinion on abortion?
But I do realize it’s part of looking at the out-group as a monolith at best and a hive mind at worst.
I think a lot of the reddit type atheists are so far removed from religion in general they only view religious people as a cartoonishly idealized strawman that has no thoughts other than what their book says and their preacher teaches, who every second of every day is thinking only about god and how to be more godly and who believes the simplest interpretation of their religion. I have encountered it quite a few times as well since my username “outs” me as christian.
It’s that plus for muslims the sheer racism that makes for a particularly potent mixture of arrogance and ignorance resulting in this weird “white savior thats sneering at their lessers” postings
it’s perfectly fine to judge the members of a group that follows a set of texts by what those texts say
Because there only ever is one interpretation of any text and religious people famously all agree on it.
Because everyone who professes to a given religion has access to, reads and observes the texts and definitely doesn’t just go with whatever everyone else is doing and saying and getting their religious belief through osmosis.
Because different sects and cultures don’t weigh some parts heavier than others and local cultural practices and superstitions play no role in how people observe or ignore the text.
Because the text is the only thing that defines a religion and there is nothing else to it.
And of course because you definitely understand the text by just skimming it until you find whatever verse lets you feel euphoric through enlightenment by your own intelligence.
