“Of course it’s lupus! You are absolutely correct!”
I would love to see an LLM doctor trained only on the TV show House.
Did you try the medicine drug?
I just wanna know how much the AI lobbyists gave him to say that…
That’s Reid Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn and a major investor in at least one “AI” company: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Hoffman?wprov=sfti1
Oh, so that’s why LinkedIn has so much AI spam.
Just…read the text that’s there?
The LinkedIN cofounder now has an AI drug discovery startup…
He’s on LinkedIn, it’s probably free so he can convince the AI daddies to notice him
We should ask AI if tech CEOs are worth keeping around despite the negative impacts of AI construction and implementation.
A professional using AI as part of your diagnosis is fine.
A professional using AI to diagnose you is not.
To put it another way. If I had a condition, and my doctor used and AI to look through thousands of studies to find a treatment regimen that fits my particular health profile better than the standard treatment and they then review the sources and decide that it would be a safer and more effective option than the standard care, then I’m all for that. If my doctor says “I asked this AI, and it said do this”, then I’m definitely not doing “that” until I check in with another doctor.
and my doctor used and AI to look through thousands of studies to find a treatment regimen that fits my particular health profile better than the standard treatment
We used to call that a search engine.
And who needs the pesky internet? We still have libraries! Ever heard of a book?
That’s LinkedIn for you. Just corporate felating in the desperate hopes a CEO will notice you
Literal blatant HIPPA violation, giving personal medical info to AI companies in exchange for useless and dangerous advice
The worst part is that HIPAA has actually already allowed AI companies to do this. Epic EHR software now has built in AI chart summary support as well as AI dictation where the patient is recorded throughout the visit by the AI agent. Somone has decided that feeding patient’s PHI and voice into an AI company’s black box is somehow acceptable healthcare practice and has actively implemented it in physical healthcare facilities.
At my last visit my doctor asked if I was okay with her recording for this (dunno if it was that exact company or not) and I said fuck no. I’m there to talk about sensitive shit, you wouldn’t catch me posting any of it online and you won’t catch me narrating it to a chatbot.
We should be able to opt out of this shit
Why? Just because it’s evil and dangerous and stupid and useless and will make shit up? Does Anyone who matters give a shit about any of that why would they?
I’m fairly certain there’s a consent specifically for use of AI at patient checkin, but I doubt the front desk staff are trained on people refusing that consent and will likely tell you that you have to sign it to be treated which I’m almost positive is not true, and may even be illegal.
An online medical service I used a while back had a consent for AI charting mixed in with the various other consent to treat paperwork, and I did have the option to decline it (and did so). During the visit, the provider once again pestered me about using AI, and I declined. They were irritated by this, because they used it to document the visit automatically, and didn’t want to have to do it themselves, but I wasn’t denied care because of it.
Do you with in healthcare? I haven’t seen an option like that in my EHR, and it does do AI summaries of patient’s charts. (To be clear, I’m not a physician, nor do I work in a clinic where I could ask a coworker about registration or “front desk” stuff, so if could be that I just don’t see it.)
Image recognition to help radiologists find tumors is probably fine; especially since you can usually run those models locally.
These morons think ChatGPT is “conscious” and “was trained on humanity’s collective knowledge”. THAT is the problem with
AI Derangement SyndromeEDIT: aw fuck let’s not use that acronym
That edit is a absolute 10/10 I burst out laughing
If you aren’t conscious its easy to think chatgpt is
There are a bunch of studies that in general show there is an effect where, despite what people say and think, they inevitably start to offload decision making to AI inappropriately and it eventually makes them worse. Harvard did a study specifically around radiologists, interestingly enough.
The “only use it as an aid” seems to be a myth.
To me it seems very similar to cocaine.
AI (statistical predictive models) work best when it’s designed for a specific purpose and when the model is too challenging to derive by hand. Detecting tumors is a specific purpose, and doing so manually is challenging enough that it requires specific training. It gets a pass by me.
Predicting protein structures/drug effects: specific purpose, check. Doing it manually, yep, very challenging. Good use of AI.
LLM chatbot: purpose is unclear. Making a non-AI-based chatbot is easy and has been done before. Verdict: useless technology
Or to put it another way, use the right tool for the job don’t use the shitty multi tool that does every job passably at best. The only exception to this rule of thumb is the humble spork, but that’s a piece of engineering genius that couldn’t be replicated by AI pushers.
Context: Coding in medical nomenclature refers to code blue (life threatening emergency)
Y’all will screech but having a giant ass search engine that is able to process patient data in context is incredibly useful.
Y’all are just prejudice. Professionals will be using these tools and they already have been providing excellent real world results. Honestly, if you don’t understand how the medical community is using AI/ml with real validated results, you should be keeping your mouth shut on the topic.
What’s with all these brand new accounts lately that seem to have been created for the sole purpose of defending AI.
GTFO you Altman propaganda bot.
Yeah this site has been positively overrun by pro-AI commenters. And it’s a recent phenomenon.
Maybe people are using it 🤷♂️
The only thing you comment on is ai, maybe you sycophants are just too obsessed and feel the need to argue about it.
It’s a day old account 🤣🤷♂️
Say the line Bart!
“Everyone I didn’t agree with is a bot”
Lemmy has a massive problem with bot accounts, astroturfing, and ban evasion that no one really wants to admit. Right wing propaganda is also becoming much more common on the fediverse. As much as people like to bash other social media and say lemmy / the fediverse is immune to this stuff, it really isn’t. Being smaller just means it takes longer to spread here, but it definitely has started.
Ahhh the, everyone I disagree with is a Nazi or bot. Solid.
If LLMs didn’t hallucinate I’d fully agree with you
Which is why your doctor should use it as a tool and validate the results. You know, do their job.
Y’all are just fucking binary. How do you think medical and community members work now? They use a shitty search engine or portal to look up material, and yes, some of it will be garbage they need to wade through.
But God forbid they have a tool that puts that information into a cited overview to supplement a tricky diagnosis. The prejudice and fake workflows that y’all invent is crazy. Looking for little edge cases everywhere catching the AI in a mistake
I have no problem with them using search engines. They can vet and choose answers from reliable sources. From an LLM, it’s anybody’s guess if anything it pulled up is correct, and a less experienced doctor could be misled into making a dangerous mistake.
Riiiiiiiiiight, LLMs don’t cite sources and the portals written in the 90s for journals solve all of that.
It’s so amazing to watch you all invent these crazy scenarios, where you’ve chosen the absolute lowest bar you can find. As if some layman who has no clue how to use this tool is working on some free Claude account because you read about one shitty doctor or lawyer fucking up. It’s honestly sad seeing these hoops to jump through.
Professional tools, run by some of the most educated type a professionals in the planet minimize and reduce these risks by providing defaults and interfaces along with education.
FFS they can (and will) kill you accidentally with far more simple shit that can’t be mostly mitigated away. But yeah, because LLMs can be used poorly by morons it’s worthless 🙄.
As if some layman who has no clue how to use this tool is working on some free Claude account because you read about one shitty doctor or lawyer fucking up
Do you know what happens when doctors fuck up?
Like, I don’t think this is the slam dunk reply that you think it is.
I’m pretty sure I’d care if thought you could read. I addressed your question.
if thought could read
When was the last time you used them? They can provide sources for pretty much everything they say and that source usually also contains said thing too.
But even if not, even back 2 years ago, it was already good because you had a second look, a different perspective. A medical professional can either know little about everything or much about next to nothing. It should be really obvious how such a tool can help, even if it can not reach expert level.
“Don’t worry, when you ask it for sources it gives you some. Sometimes they are even real! And sometimes the real ones even say the thing they were supposed to have said from the AI!”
Fucking lunacy.
Using AI as a tool to find additional information? Sure, could be doable maybe.
Asking sycophantic ”you’re absolutely correct” machines for second opinion? Absolutely not!
Hoffman is advocating for the latter.
Imagine believing that they’ll use general purpose free chatgpt. Just amazing these scenarios you all invent. I can’t tell if it’s just straight blind prejudice or you all really don’t understand how it can integrate into tooling with very specific models.
Just wild what people have cooked up in their mental model.
They literally do. ChatGPT and Copilot. I work medical field adjacent, and these are what the providers use. Not cooked up in a mental model, witnessed directly.
Take note that I’m only replying to refute your ignorance. I’m not going to engage with whatever AI generated ragebait vitriol you spew at me.
Will those are the idiots who were already lazy and going to kill you 🤷♂️
There is proper tooling, and they should be learning to use it.
Further proof you can’t read
The thing is the AIs that doctors are using aren’t just the commercially available chatgpt or Gemini, they are specialized, tuned for accuracy and only trained on medical articles.
I ask LLMs medical questions almost daily and it gets it wrong most of the time. Do I have data or a study to back this claim up, no, but if you check the sources (Perplexity) you can just see the wrong interpretation of studies or disreputable web content sources (county fair science projects, Reddit, quack websites)
It’s sometimes useful for general knowledge if you really don’t care that it might be wrong, but I’m not sure when this would be the case with medical advice
The confidence with which LLMs misstate facts and my inability to know which of my healthcare workers is blindly trusting of these tools makes it dangerous
Well I’m sure free chatgpt is the best we can do 😂
Where did I say chatgpt?
Using their institutional knowledge, and critical thinking to wade through unrelated search results is not the same as asking a sycophantic chat bot that’s programmed to always answer with complete confidence whether it’s right or wrong
I absolutely love that you all think that there are only these models designed to make you like the product. It’s like watching Republicans scream to the world how ignorant you are. Everything is a chatbot to you all 😂
I love that you keep saying that with no proof to back up a claim. Which chatbot do you use then? And if you don’t say exactly which chatbot you use everyone will know you’re a stupid liar.
Microsoft MAI-DxO is currently winning in our metrics but not widely available. At this point in time it is the obvious winner although not in GA. DxGPT second followed by path AI and AI doc. All these have completed FDA requirements, been studied, and enjoyed a success rate near our better then doctors when used parallel in diagnosis.
You can tune an AI to not hallucinate. Like you can just program it so it will return actual verbatim article snippets.
having a giant ass search engine that is able to process patient data in context is incredibly useful.
Yeah. Wouldn’t that be nice. That’s not what an LLM is, however.
Why did you assume AI = only LLM? LLMs are just one type of AI, and not the type most often used in medicine
Reid Hoffman is one of those lunatics who thinks LLMs are intelligent. His entire thing is peddling that shit.
LLMs being “search engines” is also a really popular misconception.
I didn’t know the guy, I was just addressing the general point of using AI in medicine tbh 🤷♀️
You’re completely correct that LLMs are not search engines, of course
So then I guess you shouldn’t have lead with:
but having a giant ass search engine
Say what you mean and mean what you say or you’re just spouting shit that no one will listen to.
that wasn’t me?! I was just replying to the bit about conflating AI with LLMs, like I was saying 😭
Oh jeeze, my apologies, poor attention paying on my part. Please carry on.
👌👍
Hi Reid
Hmmm a 1 day-old account rushing in to defend inappropriate LLM use 🤔
You can only get banned for an opinion so much before moving on to the next one 🤷♂️.
Yes, people are banned for their opinions… not for breaking the rules.
Yes. All the time.
Nice, ban evasion as well 👍🏻
Yup. Account age is an utterly pointless and a shitty evaluation tool. Unless you’re just looking to attach a person rather than the idea 🤷♂️. Just creates little shitty echo chambers to attach yourself to.
And fedverse makes it literally impossible to stop. Tech bros really not thinking through how people think, act, and build trust.
Did it feel good reporting me? Do you feel effective?
Tech bros really not thinking through how people think, act, and build trust.
Weren’t you literally just defending LLMs?
Y’all will screech but having a giant ass search engine that is able to process patient data in context is incredibly useful.
Exsqueeze me, but if my doctor wants to search for giant asses, then he needs to do it on his own time.
This takes away from slowing down to learn core medical skills. Hospitals and clinics will have some bean counter enforce it’s use for speed and to meet quotas but ignore that sometimes important problems just require time with a patient.
My assumption is that these tools won’t be used for the doctors benefit but for administration to push expectations that will result in a worse level of care between a patient and doctor. They already have and will continue to become mandatory and that’s a problem if it pushes away good doctors who don’t need them.
The best work I’ve seen anywhere is from people who know their job so well, they don’t have to look something up. They troubleshoot it without sitting at a computer or opening their phone, but drawing on experience they gained because they put in the time to understand instead of something shitting it into their lap.
I already loved it when I had GPs who googled my symptoms. Now with added made-up nonsense!
AI shouldn’t replace doctors, but using it as a second set of eyes makes sense. The key is keeping a human responsible for the final call.
“Take two rocks and prompt me in the morning.”
I had a very entertaining time asking search engine AI about various bacteria when writing an open book exam.
Ask how X bacteria acts in the oral cavity, and the AI summary calls it a beneficial species
Ask how X bacteria relates to periodontal disease, and the AI summary tells you it is a pathogen of utmost importance.
It answers solely based on how you pose the question and does not even provide an accurate summary of the websites it purports to have used as sources.
Elon Musk’s AI recommends Ivermectin and anal bleaching, because it’s biased. I don’t care if what I said was true.
But it is biased.
Imagine doctors using the same AI that convinced that poor, lonely guy to kill himself!
I mean, the anal bleaching probably can’t hurt right?
I already immediately left a veterinarian for using AI as part of its xray diagnosis process, which may even be somewhat acceptable since computer vision is relatively mature. Fuck if I’m lasting 5 mins with a human doctor that utters the letters “AI.”
I can’t speak for veterinary, but in dentistry AI can be problematic because:
A) it really over-diagnoses - it’s very very sensitive, meaning that it identifies things that aren’t necessarily clinically relevant
B) it does not compare to previous radiographs, so it cannot give reasonable clinical judgement on whether decay is active or arrested.
It could be a helpful tool to give you a laundry list of places to check. However, I’ve used demo software and did not find it added anything for me, although I have 15 years experience. You still need to use your clinical judgement.
I do worry about the younger clinicians being over-reliant on it, as they have it pushed on them by multi-practice dental corporations.
Yep, the “laziness” of reliance was a big part of my immediate reaction. I’ve recently found out that veterinary clinics across the country, and especially in Texas, were aggressively moved on by investment capital in the years between now and my last dogs. The pet economy, including medical care, has long been seen as recession proof. Medical care in particular is seen as emotionally driven and ripe for greater exploitation, so of course the vultures moved in. Having AI flag everything, allowing you to show a customer tons of things to worry about and milk them for more diagnostics, a.k.a. more money, is the logical conclusion.
New fear unlocked
Ya an LLM is very different than a vision based machine learning /trained visual model on something specific like x-rays.
Now, if its just a LLM looking at an xray image, that’s another story, and it could’ve been that too.
Exactly. Imagery is my field so them just saying “AI X-ray analysis” instead of something more specific or scientific didn’t inspire confidence.
