"China is good!’
“I disagree.”
Removed by mod
“China is actually not hell on earth”
“You’re just brainwashed, everyone there is actually dead”
Removed by mod
I’m not sure your point. What’s removed in your example? It’s clear that normal comments are being removed as our China government official in the thread has nicely quoted removed comments proving nothing bad was said at all.
China government official in the thread
He is not affiliated with the CPC, but thank you for demonstrating how quickly “good” liberals devolve into conspiratorial racism as soon as their sense of nationalist superiority is shaken.
I can’t know, so I choose not to decide one way or the other. I can’t know what is or isn’t propaganda, so I can’t tell you with full certainty.
I can know from firsthand accounts from Chinese people I know personally about the surveillance and militaristic state of things. I can know from reports from those on the ground.
However, I don’t think I’ve heard any worse about China than America, but I believe it to be more restrictive than the EU by a fair margin. Is China “bad”? To me, they aren’t “good” per-se, but moreover, China seems to only really care about China, as their actions seem to reflect.
They pay and support who they support and legitimize the same as any other large, powerful and untrustworthy nation, I give no quarter, but I impose none, all the same.
I think a lot of what I hear from western media is communism fear mongering propaganda. But I also think that there are kernels of truth in some of it. China is a large country that I have no doubt is doing a lot of good stuff and a lot of awful stuff. Just like the USA does good stuff and awful stuff.
What China is doing with the Uigurs is not merely Western propaganda. China is also obviously a dictatorship. No sane person would challenge that. The surveillance state is also hardening and Xu is aiming towards a neo-maoist trajectory in so some regards but without the stone age communism of the Cultural Revolution.
The West, especially but not only the US are moving towards a hardened dictatorship as well but that doesn’t change the situation in China.
The Chinese political system is based on whole-process people’s democracy, a form of consultative democracy. The local government is directly elected, and then these governments elect people to higher rungs, meaning any candidate at the top level must have worked their way up from the bottom and directly proved themselves. Combining this consultative, ground-up democracy with top-down economic planning is the key to China’s success.
I highly recommend Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance. Socialist democracy has been imperfect, but has gone through a number of changes and adaptations over the years as we’ve learned more from testing theory to practice. Boer goes over the history behind socialist democracy in this textbook.
Xi Jinping is not a “neo-Maoist,” he’s a Marxist-Leninist, same as all of the leaders of the CPC since Mao.
Funny how you forgot to list the results on the question of “impact of elections” or the one about political pluralism. But in either case. Comparing those results between entirely different countries and systems of government is rather difficult to begin with. After all, this is about perceptions, not reality. It would be interesting to see how many people would agree with “My country is democratic” in North Korea.
The claim that ethnic Uyghurs have absolutely equal rights before the law compared to a Han Chinese living in Xinyiang is pretty detached from reality. But even if they had, that doesn’t mean that the law isn’t biased against them to begin with.
But the clearest indication is a >90% satisfaction of people with the federal government. Such country is either utopia, in a massive economic uprise … or not a democracy. China on a Beijing level has a “congress” that is functionally as meaningless as a legislative could be. It is so large that it is by design already pretty impossible to be a functional parliament, and anything but a rubber stamping institution. And so the records also show that it isn’t much more than that. Power is increasingly centralised in one person, de facto. There is not much left of Deng Xiaoping’s reforms on preventing power the concentration of too much into one single person. Xi has increasingly hollowed out the system of Collective Leadership. Naturally, elections or citizen’s opinions on any of that had very little impact on any of that.
This doesn’t actually bear out concretely in reality. The fact that the government has high approval rates is directly related to the consultative form of democracy practiced in China, and the nature of a socialist state as governed by the working classes. Western states see less support because they are dominated by a tiny minority, whereas China is led by the majority.
All states are bad, but if we’re talking about which ones are arguably better or worse on the world stage…
“USA USA USA, WE’RE NUMBER 1!”
Proudly colonizing for 250 years?
Power for things like colonizing is the best indicator of a successful state. End state power. I like that the original was intended as a slight against anarchists. States keep projecting that vertical energy.
Seems to be what people do. America isn’t the first or the only one. People are shit is that your argument?
“All people are colonizers. Those who aren’t colonizing aren’t people” - colonizer brain in action.
“If I don’t steal it, someone else will”
That’s actually a statistical error.
Most people are alright. Power-hungry individuals responsible for colonialism are outliers and should not have been counted (or allowed to reach/stay in positions of power)
china gets shit on because they don’t have political freedom; there’s no stuff like “you can speak your mind as long as you’re respectful”. it’s just one committee making all the decisions and you can go to jail for disagreeing.
the problem with that is that it effectively creates a circle of yes-men around a central figure, which is very very bad. every sane government allows at least respectful disagreement and dialogue with critics because it’s an important tool to stay on track and sane long-term. critics can often have valid points and keep an empire from making a grave mistake.
that being said, china did a lot for its citizens and deserves more recognition. especially that they invested in solar energy is a stellar example of good long-term thinking and the advantages that central planning can have.
FYI the thing about a central guy in charge has always been a myth, even since Stalin’s time:
What happens with China is essentially you have local committees for things like small towns and villages, where anyone can run for office. Then those many small councils form the pool of candidates for promotion to larger regional and federal committees, forcing would-be bigwigs to work their way up from the bottom. I believe the DPRK uses a similar system.
Hopefully this doesn’t come off snide, since I know these conversations can get contentious fast. But you seem like a refreshingly normal person rather than one of the ideologically motivated internet cold warriors we often get around here, so I figured I’d try and add constructively instead of tear down.
But you seem like a refreshingly normal person rather than one of the ideologically motivated internet cold warriors
hehe thanks, i try to be.
But a soviet style system like that is ripe for corruption and nepotism.
The opposite. From here:
Some Background: History conditions much of our thinking about our political systems and most Western democracies resemble Rome’s in 60 BC when, as Robin Daverman humorously says, three aristocrats–politician Julius Caesar, military hero Pompey and billionaire Crassus–formed a backroom alliance that dominated the elected senate. The oligarchs ensured that proletarii votes changed nothing and that the masses remained invisible unless they rioted or died in one of the elites’ endless civil wars. Two thousand years later, in Britain’s general election of 1784, the son of the First Earl of Chatham and Hester Grenville, sister of the previous Prime Minister George Grenville, and the son of the First Baron Holland and Lady Caroline Lennox, daughter of Second Duke of Richmond, offered voters offered a choice of dukes. Today, in many European countries (even egalitarian Sweden) ‘democracy’ is a mere veneer over powerful feudal aristocracies that still control their economies. American voters recently watched a former president’s wife competing with a former president’s brother being defeated by a billionaire who installed his daughter and son-in-law in important government positions and ensured that, as John Dewey said, “U.S. politics will remain the shadow cast on society by big business as long as power resides in business for private profit through private control of banking, land and industry, reinforced by command of the press and other means of propaganda”. Most Western politicians are related by marriage or wealth and have, like all hereditary classes, lost sympathy with the broad mass of their fellow citizens to the extent that, as American political scientists Martin Gilens and Benjamin Page found, ‘the preferences of the average American appear to have a near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy’: Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
My system is clearly the best, and its a shithole of corruption and nepotism. Therefore all other systems must be even corrupter and nepotister, otherwise my system wouldn’t be the best Q.E.D.
It’s sad that if I literally see ml I assume the truth is inverted. But even then, you assume too much, it’s good advice to always assume you’re talking to someone smarter than you so you make your argument clear and simple.
Why do you immediately assume communists are the opposite of correct? Not to hyperbolize, but taken to the logical conclusion this is just a belief in fascism.
I don’t consider ml to be communists either, just boot licking imbeciles who don’t understand how obviously dumb they are
Why don’t you consider Marxist-Leninists to be communists? When people think of communists, they think of the ones that studied Marxism and established socialism in real life based on this study. How are the largest and most historically relevant communists secretly not communists? How are billions of people studying Marxism over the last centuries all wrong?
because they don’t have political freedom. there’s no stuff like “you can speak your mind as long as you’re respectful”
And the West definitely, absolutely has that
i mean yeah, literally, look at how the Iranian regime is allowed to post its anti-US propaganda lego movies on Twitter.
Yeah, how amazing that I can see anti-US propaganda Lego movies whenever I want. That’s what will ignite the revolution that makes our lives better, really some serious dissent that can conceivably lead to real change here.
Shitposts and memes about dissent to satiate the maases while all the real political discourse by activists with any real chance of accomplishing anything are censored and criminalised. It’s genius really.
Since when is Iran a western country?? LMBO! Sounds like you just proved their point
Look at how many people have been arrested and jailed for saying “From the river to the sea”
yeah the UK is going downhill very quickly and it’s evident in how nervously they respond to that saying.
Who said anything about the UK?
Guess you haven’t been following the news lately.
Yet just as these creative expressions of national resistance reached peak global influence, YouTube jumped in. The platform suspended the Explosive Media channel under baseless allegations of policy violations, effectively silencing a powerful voice of dissent
What followed was a transparent smear campaign by Western media outlets, led by the BBC, aimed at discrediting the creators and justifying the censorship. Their goal was clear: to silence any narrative that dared challenge the official US-Israeli framing of the aggression.
i indeed only found out about that rn
To be fair i speak my mind in a disrespectful way daily of the shit stained leader of the usa. They just let me do it.
Lol try actually activating against him. They let you speak until the instant they think you might change something and have gotten really good at gauging that.
source:
You did the thing
china gets shit on because they don’t have political freedom; there’s no stuff like “you can speak your mind as long as you’re respectful”. it’s just one committee making all the decisions and you can go to jail for disagreeing.
Not even true, common CIA talking point. They don’t disagree with their government because 99% of China’s citizens are extremely happy with their gov, not because they’ll be arrested.
Well that’s impossible. There will always be around a 25% of a population that is not happy with the current state of things. That’s been true for all of history. 99% of people are not happy with their government—ever—unless they (the unhappy ones) are being threatened forced or killed off.
After primitive communism, all of history has been the history of a small ruling class over vast working classes. Socialism is class society, but with the working classes, the majority, on top. You’re treating the subject metaphysically and dogmatically assuming true what only in actuality applies to certain contexts.
Maybe engage with the western sources assessing figures of most Chinese people being happy then? Look at the evidence to see instead of claiming a comically evil government forcing or killing everyone?
p.s.
Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.
- Albert Einstein, Why Socialism?
but no again tell me about how the level of political freedom you have differs meaningfully between western societies and China
china gets shit on because they don’t have political freedom; there’s no stuff like “you can speak your mind as long as you’re respectful”. it’s just one committee making all the decisions and you can go to jail for disagreeing.
what if actually it’s more like you need to know what the fuck you’re talking about in order to Be Political (which involves joining the party and by its nature excludes capitalist roaders and compradors attempting to bring back capitalist systems) and then democracy happens within that party
instead of like a big nameless Committee made up of a hivemind AI like intelligence that just Dictates
maybe that’d be better than having two bourgeois parties (or dozens of bourgeois parties in Europe/etc) owned by bourgeois interests effectively negating the existence of democracy by ensuring that all “democratic” institutions, by consequence of bourgeois influence over parties, operate at their pleasure
You know nothing about China’s political system except the white-supremacist tropes you’ve ingested about it.
Oh no! You’ve poked the liberal hive now LMBO
If you can find me a governance representing more than 100 million people that is genuinely good, with no ifs ands or buts about it, I can prove that you are the brainwashed one.
Absolutely wild to try and assert that westerners who think China is good are “brainwashed”. Like literally you are doing the meme.
Why does it need to be perfect to be good?
I need it to stop doing evil things first. I am all for reducing the evil, less evil is always great and ill always vote for a lesser evil. But dont expect me to a government structure good if it is still doing evil things. Ill call a politician good if they want to decrease the evil. But I will not call a country good if its still evil.
I have a question, what is your opinion on lesser evil? Is America the lesser evil in your opinion?
America is evil. There are politicians who are lesser evils within the usa. They dont make the US not evil, just less evil.
I don’t know individual politicians in china, but im sure there are plenty of lesser evil politicians there. That doesnt mean china isnt also doing evil things. I hope the evil reduces there. And in the usa. And everywhere else.
What are the evil things that China is doing? And on that note, what are these “lesser evil” politicians? Are you equating China as on the same level of evil as the US?
The Uyghurs genocide that’s ongoing was shoved down our throats for years yet you people forget? Uh huh.
Do you deny the white genocide in south africa?
was shoved down our throats for years
I wonder why!
Here’s two examples of evil things that China is doing:
Persecution of Uyghurs in China
Internet censorship in Chinalol did you just google “evil things china does” and paste the first wikipedia links you find?
Ok. So all you’ve done is come up with a definition that means every country is evil, making it pointless to even talk about.
It’s wild to me that grown adults still use “good” and “evil” as an actual heuristic
K.
Of course evil is an actual heuristic - what point are you trying to make here?
This whole post is brigaded. No where on the internet is safe.
If you don’t like seeing commies don’t come to spaces where we hang out lol
That’s right, we’re everywhere and we’re coming for you👻
Brigaded by whom?
If anything, done by people like them. A ML user posted this in ML itself, some of the folks from other instances come in with bad faith and/or bullcrap arguments, other ML users come in to defend and debunk, and we’re apparently the ones brigading in our own space.
Muhahahaha
It’s a useless heuristic, because it’s a fuckin magical metaphysical one. If you’re not a christian who believes in a spirit world, then stop letting the church define reality for you. Good and evil as concepts have no more valence on physical reality than karma or sin, and have no power to explain things that happen.
Children think in good and evil. Adults think in cause and effect. Be scientific.
Does River think their special for calling an unspecified murder a cause and effect instead of an evil? I dont think in a Christian way. I still think its fucking normal to call shit evil instead of explaining how the effects of murder are painful for the following litany of reasons
Awww, baby’s first analysis! Do the good guys wear the white hats (and the bad guys the black hats) so you know exactly who they are?
Good grief. You presumably have a brain, please try and use it. This is no way to have an adult conversation.
The world is super complicated and nuanced and im sick of people pretending that china is this bastion of good governance and im sick of people pretending that Harris would have been just as bad as trump. If you cant get on board with that, block me
Ha, still angry you sold your soul to a genocidaire who lost
Trump accelerated the genocide 1000 fold. I didnt sell out for shit, I was trying to save lives.
Hmm, must be an llm, they never said the word perfect. They never said anything had to be perfect.
How does that feel?
Well kind of funny because it’s not at all comparable to what you’re trying to compare it to. Also I never called anyone an llm I asked if they used it as it left an artefact.
How does that feel?
Embarassing in a secondhand way?
Lol Uyghurs amiright? 😂
Lol lets worry about a CIA fake genocide op instead of the real ones happening like in Gaza amiright fellow zionazis? 😂
You are doing genocide denial when you claim that genocide can happen without being accompanied by mass death. Genocide is the crime of crimes because it always involves mass slaughter of innocent people, to bring about their end. The invention of “”“cultural genocide”“” without any of the accompanying mass violence effectively whitewashes genocide as a concept.
Lol bro over here trying to downplay the horrific treatment of a whole people and claim everyone else is the problem 😂
Downplay what? A reeducation/deradicalization program isn’t fucking genocide on its own, and when you say it is you are the one that’s donwplaying the crime of genocide as a concept. Even the boarding schools they used in the genocide in North America had mass graves, because genocide is always accompanied by mass death and to claim otherwise is whitewashing.
It’s the crime of crimes because it’s the worst violence that can be inflicted on a group.
So I’m not trying to defend the other poster but genocide by definition does not have to include mass death. And can include any of the following
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
In the real world there hasn’t been a genocide that didn’t involve mass death. 3, 4, and 5 all require a lot of killing to actually work.
A): Hey what do you think about the Russian intervention in the Ukranian civil war, and
B) The horrific treatment such as?
Oh wow, a transphobic lib? So surprising.
I suppose apartheid can be used instead of cultural genocide.
It would be just as incorrect
China isn’t preventing or discouraging intermarrying or intermixing with Uighurs, which is a key feature of apartheid. Neither do they have to use separate lanes of the road, carry special IDs marking their ethnicity, or forced to use different emergency shelters.
I use those examples because the real-world example of apartheid, Israel, is currently doing all of those things today.
I’m genuinely undereducated here, not an op…
Accepting all that, that’s still essentially colonization, no?
Is there nuance I’m missing here? China’s seemingly codified cultural repression genuinely makes it hard for me to consider supporting them, whether or not they advance the cause of the average worker
They also don’t do cultural genocide, look at videos of random tourists visiting Xinjiang and you’ll see some locals speaking Uyghur, you’ll see mosques, museums, traditional Uyghur food, etc. The previous repression was meant to curve terrorism, it seems to have worked, and things have relaxed afterwards. I don’t see how any of this fits the picture of colonialism.
Well it certainly doesn’t fit the picture I was described! I was told Uyghers were being killed in some cases, and rehoused en masse in others.
If what you’re saying is right, and the Uygher culture is allowed to continue unharried outside of radical minorities then I would agree that doesn’t really compare to the horrors of colonization!
Is it actually illegal to be queer there too? Or is that also exaggerated?
In addition to the older generations thinking queerness is yucky, there’s also the problem of the West using our rights as a bludgeon to justify sanctions and wars. I’ve seen Westerners try to justify the genocide in Gaza because “they’d throw you off a roof for being queer!” As if Israel isn’t actively blackmailing us into being informants by threatening to out us to our families.
This is all to say that anti-queer sentiment has become deeply rooted among the masses, themselves.
Ah, bummer. I’m aware of how it’s used in identity politics, but I’d never considered how that use might foster distrust in an already culturally repressive populace. Sounds complicated, and I’m sure the aftereffects of imperialism haven’t done anything to help the nations they left devastated feel positively about a trend they might identify as foreign in that way.
God damn, you actually checked it out. I’m genuinely not used to that level of intellectual honesty on the internet
It isn’t illegal to be queer, but gay marriage isn’t really legal either. It’s an upbill battle ironically held back by the fact that the PRC is a democratic country, and the older generations are still more socially conservative. As time goes on it has been getting better.
Meant to curb terrorism. Lol. Sure.
We weren’t all born yesterday. We’ve heard all this before.
There’s literal footage of the terrorist acts. Do you expect China to let terrorists slaughter civilians?
When we look at how colonization in the real world we see it is accomplished, again, through mass death. See: Israel
I largely agree, though Israel has used many nonlethal methods for a long time. There is a lot of violence involved in the process that doesn’t require death. Forced relocation is a pretty classic tactic, for example, which Israe has made ample use of in their ongoing genocide
The violence requires death, is the thing. People don’t just allow themselves to be forcibly relocated (as per your example), they will fight to stay on their land unless they face the threat of death (and many do stay, and die). Behind every “nonlethal” process is a death machine that makes it possible in the first place. That’s why colonization is always accomplished through mass death.
I’m trying not to get too caught up in semantics here. It sounds like you’re saying that the relocation that the Chinese government puts Uygher people through cannot be comparable to the relocation that other cultures have been put through, and that the lack of a mass death toll is serviceable evidence for that claim. Do I have that correct?
If so, it’s a good point! I think I had a presumption that the true nature of their (and any government’s) crimes was hidden. It does seem a bit far-fetched that it would be possible to cover up the kind of mass death that you’re saying would come with a colonization, so it’s a more reasonable metric than just making assumptions based on vibes I suppose. You’ve at least given me a less propagandizeable thing to research _
The point is those “non-lethal” methods only work because they are backed by “lethal” ones.
Violence breeds violence, more news at 11.
Can you find evidence of even a single dead Uyghur?
Yeah, my buddy Uyghur Jim. He told me that China killed him, so we can’t hang out any more.
RIP, hope he gets better
🤔
If, over the next 10 years, your country became more and more like China, would you go along with the changes? Would you have any problems with the transformation?
I really don’t know what it’s like in China because I’ve never been there. I know some people who are from China but they’ve never really talked about anything other than visiting their families. All I hear comes from the US propaganda machine, so I can’t really have an informed opinion. This is probably how it should be for like 95% of Americans. We don’t need to have an opinion about everything ffs.
i would literally kill for half the amenities they have in China.
- modern electricity grid quickly moving away from fossil fuels
- high speed train network
- cheap fresh produce
- affordable housing
- transitioning to socialism via the development of productive forces
- strong investment in education and R&D
- quickly advancing tech in almost every sector that matters
- people-directed governance that is not subservient to capital (foreign or domestic)
- very low crime
- ecological restoration that won’t get cancelled by the next elected administration
- cheap and good quality healthcare
- bold long term vision and consistent achievement of it over time
objectively better than just about any other place
The education is also non-competitive and crippling for the not-so-gifted students, yes?
Because I don’t hear about many student suicides (specifically due to stress and pressure) outside of the Asian countries.
Selective hearing, racist edition
incredible
I specifically mentioned Asian and including China.
So…Please give me now a comparison to western societies like EU countries (or US if it easier to find statistics)
C O P E
Thanks for providing the requested chart.
Side note:
Jesus christ are you all zealots for china. Please get your dick inside back in your trousers
If you like the country so much, I hope you are on the way to move there…Sorry that you got banned and hexbear’s “left unity” shit on you. Left wing chuds hate being questioned.
You can just admit to being wrong without trying to insult everyone that was correct.
but but have you considered the abstract values???
I wish my country became more like China over the next decade
They’ve been around, as a civilization, for over 5,000 years. I’d like to think you don’t make it that long without doing a thing or 2 right.
Eh. The US has been around just as long as a civilization. If the Chinese get to claim credit for the radically different ancient predecessors to modern China, then the US can claim decent from both the ancient Native American civilizations as well as the ancient Middle Eastern civilizations that are ultimately the predecessors of many countries such as the US.
The US has been around just as long as a civilization. If the Chinese get to claim credit for the radically different ancient predecessors to modern China, then the US can claim decent from both the ancient Native American civilizations
The US is a settler colonial project that carried out an extermination campaign and genocide of hundreds of native tribes, and stole their land. Settlers have no right to claim descent from the people (they’re still) trying to exterminate. Unlike South America, there’s not even a genetic heritage; the US colonialist just killed every indigenous person they found, or put them into reservations.
Neither the PRC nor most ME countries are settler ones. The number of settler-colonial countries is tiny: the US, Canada, Israel, Australia, New Zealand, are the main ones.
BWAHAHA!
China is absolutely a settler-colonialist state. How do you think 90% of the population ended up Han Chinese? Chinese cultural extermination goes back millennia.
Kinda sounds more like you need other countries’ history to be described in the same terms that apply to the United States, so you can dismiss it all as “just the way the world is” without having to examine how that history informs our present.
Your list should include pros and cons. Which is your country?
Given that I live in the US Empire, a number of things will go differently for socialist construction. The US Empire is de-industrialized, and is a settler-colony. Decolonization and re-industrialization will both be required. However, certain aspects of China’s experience with socialism will also be experienced by the socialist state replacing the US Empire in this hypothetical, and I support that as well.
Westerners today have so much in common with their inquisition and crusades predecessors. They replaced Christianity with Western Liberalism and they fight for it with the same zeal. Either you adopt their values and systems or you are an evil heathen who must be destroyed.
There’s an interesting blog that analyzes the transition of political economy from medieval europe to the rise of capital through a perspective of the mechanics of occult practices. It’s pretty well thought out and compares church occult practices and their relations to “capital occultism” via social relations and rituals.
This post is about how money aka capital is transmuted to embody commodified labor value in a similar structure of social relations (“occult magic”) as the holy cracker being consecrated and transmuted to embody the flesh of Jesus Christ.
https://ianwrightsite.wordpress.com/2021/11/25/dark-eucharist-of-the-real-god/
The previous post is also quite good that covers the concept of Marx’s “real god” that is manifested via the capital imperative to continuously increase profit and accumulation.
Makes even more sense one you realize that the inquisition and witch hunts were deeply intertwined with the forceful establishment of capitalism
This comment section is filthy! And all of that just to justify the chinese imperialistic ambitions. Looks really twisted to me.
I appreciate the term “imperialistic ambitions,” because it acknowledges that China hasn’t actually done stuff that you could plausibly call imperialist, so all you can do is criticize stuff that they might possibly want to do someday.
Literally the spongebob “No, but are we gonna wait around until he does?”
You’re who this meme is about
Please define imperialism and explain what imperialist ambitions China has.
You forget the part where they hear China is bad from their friends
you mean their occupied subjects not friends.
I think they meant that we’re also propagandized by our peers
Which china does this refer to?
The one recognized by 99% of the world’s population, except for a few tiny island nations / members of OAS (a US org) bribed by the US.
ROC doesn’t claim to legitimately rule China anymore. That was just KMT’s delusion, and they’re no longer in power.
Isn’t it in their constitution?
I don’t see what in that article says what you’re saying.
The amendments changed the law such that Taiwan could start having elections without controlling the mainland which might be termed a de facto acceptance of the situation but formally the claims have not been revoked.
China can have products that are great and cheap. China can also have stolen designs and inhumane labor practices. They’re not mutually exclusive.
A lot of pro China on Lemmy lately, can we turn the propaganda down a bit.
It literally isn’t.
.ml is the TLD for Mali.
Lemmygrad.ml is Marxist-Leninist, Lemmy.ml is the dev instance and the devs are MLs, so there’s a lot of overlap but nothing firm.
Average .world zionazi comment LMBO!
You actually are experiencing the propaganda being turned down, it’s just that a fish doesn’t notice the water until it’s gone. The anti-China orthodoxy that is the default in western ruling class political thought is the astroturfed position, not the other way around.
Most people here were taught the same bs about China and we broke away from that by sitting down, reading and looking at the (lack of) evidence for everything they’re accused of. China isn’t perfect, none of us claim it is, it also isn’t at all what state department propaganda claims
A lot of pro Zionism lately especially out of .world, can we turn the zionazis down a bit.
I’m an American. China might not be bad, but they ain’t going to be good to me. America isn’t good to me either.
You’d be surprised, the worst thing that could happen to you while traveling to really any global south country is getting scammed (overcharging for a meal or taxi) and that’s about it. Most people are very welcoming and will be friendly even excited to see a foreigner. It’s pretty much just Europe and North america where people treat you rude or at best just indiffirently if they see you’re a tourist.
Streamers ludwig and some other recently filmed a trip throughout mainland China and it’s pure good vibes.
You need to watch foreigners stream in America. They have the same lovely experiences (and with the worst people to boot). This idea you’ll get treated badly in the usa as a tourist is a lie.
America is not a foreign country to you, unlike China.
