The truth on the other hand, is the unshakable reality that has driven every sanction, every sabotage attempt, and every assassination plot since 1959: Cuba is a threat only to an idea. It is a threat to the imperial doctrine that a small, poor nation in America’s ‘backyard’ must not be allowed to choose socialism, to provide free healthcare and education, and homes to live without the permission of Washington.
For this sin of self-determination, the crime of building a society where capital is not god, Cuba has been punished with the most enduring economic siege in modern history. This is not an ‘embargo’, which I consider to be a sterile, political term. It is a total blockade, designed to constrict and cripple. It is enforced by a plethora of laws with names like the Helms-Burton Act, which terrorises foreign companies from trading with the Island and allows the US to seize ships in international waters. Its goal, as US politician Robert Torricelli once admitted, was to…
‘Wreak havoc’.
What the US is doing right now? It goes further back…
If we got to vote for it sure. But we have no voice. This is just assholes doing asshole things.
I think, based on conversations I have with people in real life and read online, that the people in the US haven’t challenged the 60 years of propaganda about Cuba, and believe it a totalitarian nightmare dictatorship.
I have a close friend who went to Cuba for ecological research (did you know they still have intact reefs) a few years ago, and when they would tell people they were going to Cuba, the most common reaction was a fearful “that’s scary” and a confused, almost accusatory “why”.
I don’t think they realize that everyone else can just go to Cuba, it’s only the blue US passport and a bunch of old white guys, and probably now more Cuban Americans, with their fear of communism and land reform stopping them from enjoying a very nice bottle of state owned rum and an experience of how other people live.
I’m glad other countries have been stepping up to help the people there, the Cuban people deserve happy and comfortable lives, and we clearly don’t have the appetite to stop starving them of that right now. Until we shake that propagandized view, I don’t imagine that will change either.
Obama I think floated an end to the shitbaggery during his second term. Like anything he proposed, it was stonewalled.
I think he actually lifted the travel embargo and aimed to normalize relations but the bazillionaires and still angry exbazillionaire diaspora faces started melting so 2016 was the end of that.
It is essentially genocide.
Please provide a definition so we can frame your argument.
I don’t agree on this, but I do think it’s shaping up rapidly to become one. We will see in a couple of months, but any tropical cyclone or natural phenomena has a huge destructive potential in Cuba right now.
I don’t know about that. Genocides don’t usually take 80 years, as the population grows. I don’t think that fits the description.
Attempted genocide
That’s not how it works. If there’s an organized effort to exterminate a group of people because of their immutable characteristics (in this case nationality) it’s genocide. You can be guilty of the crime of genocide even if you don’t kill a single person. The US embargo absolutely meets the criteria and has already caused thousands of excess deaths (as well as underdevelopment) over the course of decades. It’s like Gaza, blocking off a group of millions of people from being able to get anything from the rest of the world and restricting the flow of basic necessities. They don’t have to kill any specific number of people for that to count as genocide, it just is.
Yeah I suppose it is better to have made an actual argument instead of just “owning” the commenter, and you are correct, it is not merely an attempted genocide, which would be something like a guy in the government trying to organise a genocide but failing to organise and accomplish anything.
Time period is irrelevant.
Intentionally disrupting a countries ability to prosper and sustain itself with the end goal being loss of lives of those citizens is still genocide.
Bombs or starving. Doesn’t matter the method.
Killing off civilians of a state is genocide.
Ok shitlib
This kind of ad hominem is not going to convince undecided people of your view
Not a Lib, loser.
What you say you are doesn’t matter. It’s what you believe and do that decides what you are. And you are running defense for the US genocide using the same tired talking points that are used to deny every genocide.
What we say or do or are doesn’t matter. Your need for strawmen does.
“strawmanning” is a rhetorical fallacy where you point out the logical conclusions that are to be drawn from a person’s statements <- you, an imbecile <- An actual strawman, but just barely.
Learn what the logical fallacies are if you want to throw them out, you moron
Im not the one conflating decades of “embargo” (still fucking horrendous btw) largely dictated by the economic choices of shipping companies whether to serve cuba or the U.S. (hint: companies that make money will choose the profitable option) with the recent extreme escalations by the Trump admin which are attempting to tighten it into a full blockade (which I shouldn’t need to tell you since they’ve been really fucking overtly vocal about their actions and intentions)
I don’t know what youre talking about I’ve been calling for the end of the Cuban Embargo since the end of the Soviet Union.
The Cuban embargo made good political sense to pressure the Soviets when they were trying to use Cuba as a nuclear base to bomb us from, and any country would have done the same, in the face of the same threat.
But that threat is gone, and the embargo has just become casual cruelty, which is the MAGA hobby. Of course they can’t help but crank it up to 11. That’s MAGA for you. If they see chance to hurt someone, they can’t resist.
Now the embargo just drives the Cubans deeper into the arms of Mother Russia. Lifting the embargo, and flooding them with American products, tourists, and lower prices would do far more to break their connection than anything else.
The Cuban embargo made good political sense to pressure the Soviets when they were trying to use Cuba as a nuclear base to bomb us from, and any country would have done the same, in the face of the same threat.
If you werent a lib you’d know that the US and NATO were the escalating/aggressing party, shitlib.
I do know that, and I also know that the whole thing was over and all bombs removed from both Turkey and Cuba by 1963. The embargo continued to keep Russia from re-arming Cuba, and it worked. However, after the fall of the Soviet Union, it should have been lifted. Continuing it has been cruel, and dumb, and both Republican and Democrat presidents are guilty.
The Cuban embargo made good political sense to pressure the Soviets when they were trying to use Cuba as a nuclear base to bomb us from, and any country would have done the same, in the face of the same threat.
- yeah the evil Soviets just wanting to bomb us for no good reason. Hey, when did the U.S. try to put nukes in Italy and turkey again? Oh, huh
) Dawg there’s a memo from the office of the secretary for inter american affairs from 1960 detailing the specific plan for the embargo to cause hunger, desperation and consequent counter revolution. Translation: “we’re going to starve Cuba until they do what we command”
The cuban missile crisis wasn’t until two years later. They intensified the embargo FEBRUARY 1962 and the missile crisis didn’t begin until the END of that year. But yeah sure uh the missiles after the fact totally justify an overtly stated goal of starving civilians for political change (hey what’s the definition of terrorism again btw)
going off about MAGA nonsense as if Joe Biden did anything to end the embargo
Oh my god, liberal. Liberal! Liiiiiiibeeeeerrrrraaaaaaallllll! As if your “actually putting missiles in cuba would have justified starving them” statement wasn’t enough confirmation on its own. Christ
Heh-heh, America isn’t the only place with ridiculous propaganda.
Genocides don’t usually take 80 years
Found the Israeli
Zionist.
It is not even in top 10 most barbaric things USA has done in its history.
Truth. Still, solidarity with Cuba. I hope to be there within the month.
It kinda is, it just looks less violent. War kills about 100k people yearly, US + EU economic sanctions murder half a million every single year for the past 50+ years.
If I were a super perfect president of the United States, I would ask Cuba if they want to join the Union, with all rights and benefits that goes with being a State. This offer also would be extended to territories like Puerto Rico.
IMO, Cuba and other island States have a special potential - as places to try out UBI, universal healthcare, free education at all levels, and other reforms, that can’t be easily implemented in isolation* on the mainland.
*Specifically, I want to try different variations of implementation, to find the best ‘recipe’ for an improved democratic socialism. Islands are good for A/B/C testing, I wager.
Nobody sane would want to be part of the US banana republic.
Oh honey. No. That is not how this works.
I would ask Cuba if they want to join the Union, with all rights and benefits that goes with being a State.
And if they say no you’ll definitely leave them alone after that right?
Also, who do you think Cuba broke free from.
IMO, Cuba and other island States have a special potential - as places to try out UBI, universal healthcare, free education at all levels, and other reforms, that can’t be easily implemented in isolation* on the mainland.
*Specifically, I want to try different variations of implementation, to find the best ‘recipe’ for an improved democratic socialism. Islands are good for A/B/C testing, I wager.
“Latino island dwellers are the perfect guina pigs for me to test my half baked ideas to avoid inconveniencing white people when they fail spectacularly”
Cuba is already democratic socialist. And it’s working very well in spite of how much effort the richest country in the world puts into killing it.
Cuba is already democratic socialist. And it’s working very well in spite of how much effort the richest country in the world puts into killing it.
it’s impressive that they’ve lasted this long
My admiration for the grit, gumption and resilience is boundless.
and sacrifice; there’s no way i could sacrifice as much as they have.
100
Why the fuck would they want to do that?
*Specifically, I want to try different variations of implementation, to find the best ‘recipe’ for an improved democratic socialism. Islands are good for A/B/C testing, I wager.
Dr. Mengele joins the DSA.
Jesus fuck, read the room. NO COUNTRY WANTS THAT.
How does your position help Cuba?
“Your position?” Dude. My position is that suggesting annexation of Cuba is incredibly tone deaf and generally offensive. My position isn’t meant to directly help or harm Cuba, it’s meant to protect objectivity, which of course helps all good faith actors.
I will concede that your option works only if you agree that Ukraine has to give up and become a part of Russia. Does that make sense?
By not making it an imperialist conquest by a dying empire. It helps by not dragging Cuba down. It helps by letting Cuba dictate it’s own fate, and not by a bunch of feudalist technocrats. It helps by not having to have Cubans eat the psychic damage caused by become complicit with an evil regime that’s ok with committing genocide if it makes a rich asshole slightly richer. It helps by not having it be ruled by a narcissistic psychopathic pudding brained man-baby, who believes he is the smartest person in the world, but is so incompetent at everything, he could fuck up a cheese sandwich.
Jesus fuck… why would anyone want to join that shithole.
Even an Americans self fulfillment fantasy of being the bestest us president that ever was involves the annexation of Cuba. You guys got a problem.
I said “offer to join the union”. If rejected, then America should simply end embargoes and all of that crap. In any case, I suspect you have an issue, because you don’t want Cuba to have opportunities of any kind. People are being hurt on Cuba, because they have been denied prosperity by selfish dickheads who can’t think of a better future.
you people are deluded.
No different than some missionary biblethumper peddling his poison thinking he has something great to offer.
your union can get fucked.
Build a wall around it, stay behind it and leave the world alone.Your comments here are soaked in US chauvinism.
Cuba is already sovereign. It does not need to be “invited” into the empire that has spent over 60 years trying to strangle it. Treating another nation as a potential US “state” or “test lab” is naked colonial thinking.
Also calling the islands places for “A/B testing” social policy is grotesque. You’re talking about real people, not sandbox populations. Cuba already guarantees universal healthcare, free education at all levels, housing rights, and food subsidies despite being under one of the longest economic sieges in modern history. The US can’t even provide those basics to its own working class.
The blockade isn’t some abstract policy disagreement. It blocks fuel, medicine, banking access, shipping insurance, medical equipment, and even disaster relief. It’s collective punishment imposed by the United States. Every year almost the entire world votes at the UN to end it. Washington ignores them.
To add to this Puerto Rico is not some inspiring example of US “opportunity.” Puerto Rico is a US colony with no voting representation in Congress, crushed by debt, austerity, and privatization imposed by Washington. If that’s your model, it’s an indictment of your beliefs.
And finally Cuba does not need Amerikkkans to teach it socialism. Cuba built a functioning public health system, biotech sector, disaster response model, and mass literacy campaign while under siege something the US ruling class hasn’t even properly accomplished for its own despite ruling most of the world with a bloodied iron fist.
If you actually cared about Cubans, you’d drop the annexation fantasies. Your grotesque idea of “testing grounds.” and ridiculous imperial “offers.”
I have a feeling that your hypernationalism isn’t to help people, but rather to lash out at the United States. You don’t look any different from the Republicans in my nation.
Apparently it’s not just your president that’s pudding brained.
The only people that think your country is great are the ones there who have never been anywhere else.
Where have I ever been hyper nationalist or even nationalist at all? You just don’t want to contend with the fact that you’re pro imperialism and colonialism and an outright chauvinist as long as it has good pr.
The problem is that they actually believe their own ~~bullshit ~~ internal propaganda that they are the best at everything.
Hypernationalism is when you don’t want to be colony sucked dry by the Wall Street oligarchs 🙄
You’re completely lost. If I were to guess, you’re getting some kind of benefit from psychologically transferring qualities that you see in America to yourself, and then taking criticism of America as a personal threat. Since we’re analyzing each other.
I don’t like America, at least not the one that I live in. What I want is a better America, based on socialist ideology and direct democracy.
🤨
How about just ending the embargo?
Oh, so just like how trump offered Canada and Greenland to join the union. Get you some of that self awareness mate
My thought process is very different from the Orange Man, thank you very much. While I obviously would have to ask experts in this hypothetical scenario about what resources former territories and Cuba would need, my focus is three things:
1: Allow these lands to become prosperous for their people’s benefit. This is regardless of whether they become part of the Union as States, or as independent countries. People should live a decent life. Either way, mutual trade is a keystone.
2: Try out different structures of authority for resources and services in each different socialist State. Boring but important stuff, like how many departments are needed to distribute resources, checks and balances, anti-corruption measures, ect. Assuming a presidency of two terms, it is only 8 precious years to figure out a good way forward. Thus, A/B/C testing.
3: If a good model of practical social democracy is developed, try to spread it, and standardize the socialism for the testing States.
This is bait right? I’ve just been caught by a master fisherman right? No way is this for real.
Literally the only thing that has prevented Cuban prosperity is US interference.
I think your heart is in the right place but your brain needs a few minutes to catch up and slap some sense into it.
I would ask Cuba if they want to join the Union
And you’d receive a universal and resounding “no”. Cuba is its own independent country, with its culture and its ideals, much better than the USA. If you were a “super perfect” US president you’d be better off remodeling the USA to be more akin to Cuba lmao
Where do you think remodeling gets started? Having the US being jealous of Cuba’s prosperity would do much to help convince the states to become better.
That should be done with internal propaganda, Cuba will never join the US.
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Ebough damage has been done in these last decades. This is dangerously becoming a full blown USA genocide of the Cuban people. It’s unacceptable.
Worse than what Israel is doing to Palestine?
They’re using the same strategies. Israel is farther along in the process.
Both are worse and coming to USA.
Not yet, but it’s a similar action with a similar goal
Not really. Call me when they’re bombing hospitals and schools.
So, it’s only similar when it’s the same? Words have meaning, you know?
They don’t need to because they can simply starve them instead
Iran
One thing that’s worth noting is that Israel and the US are the two countries that voted against making food a human right at the UN and both are actively committing genocide via starvation.
These two processes are actually intrinsically connected and are part of a broader strategy I fear is only going to see more examples as climate collapse plays out. There’s going to be more groups that the imperialist powers will want to wipe out and ecosystem collapse will cause famines that a blockade can escalate into a mass death event.
No? That’s a weird deflection from the misery of a people, to point at other miserable people and imply, look they’re worse off so we can ignore everyone else. Or are you just lost, read a different piece, and replied to the wrong thing.
What you’re doing sure looks like deflection using whataboutism, but why deflect something you’re not at fault for? You don’t have to help the US government defend their actions.
They’re trying to do essentially the same thing so idk why you wanna make it into the war crimes olympics over there, unless you’re some shit lib attempting to diminish the crimes of these wretched states
Name a worse diaspora than Cuban Americans. Israelis don’t count
The Hawaiian diaspora is the most severe in the entire world when viewed per capita. More Hawaiians have been forced out of Hawai’i than any other group of people have been forced out of anywhere else
Plus the US quite literally holds massive amounts of Hawaiian lands that were seized when the US overthrew the Hawaiian monarchy, and could easily return that land to the Hawaiian people, it just chooses not to do it. Mostly by refusing to recognize any Hawaiian leadership and treating them on par with how other US native people are treated. If native Hawaiians had a recognized government the way indigenous peoples on the mainland do, the government would have to turn that land over. So they refuse to recognize
I think they meant in terms of behavior and attitude toward the homeland, but I can be wrong.
Iranian diaspora gives them a run for their money
South African
colonialistsdiaspora in piSSreal is borderline the most Satanic of the lot out thereVenezuelans in Spain
I had no problem with Cuba. Nice place to visit in winter. No Americans.
I don’t understand why I have to see this posted multiple times when I’ve blocked the poster over and over.
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I guess you can’t escape the truth
“A lie travels quickly, but the truth endures.”
We are going to keep posting it until you understand.
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There was also a famine in the 30s in Kazakhstan, not just Ukraine. A similar number of people died.
Soviets didn’t have a “famine in Ukraine”, they had a famine in the Soviet Union caused by the need for extremely rapid industrialization started in 1929. If it hadn’t been for the rapid industrialization (which hinged on moving field laborers to factories in cities and was funded with the only product they could export: grain), the soviets would have lost WW2 and tens of millions more of people would have died.
The famine disproportionately affected Ukraine (and other agriculturally strong places in southern Russia and Kazakhstan), but the industrialization also disproportionately benefitted Ukrainians by liberating them from Nazism and saving tens of millions of their lives from Nazi extermination.
If you want some good insight on the soviet famine of the early thirties, I suggest you read Robert B. Allen’s “Farm to Factory”, it makes a very good economic analysis of it.
yeah they had a famine in the soviet union, but the ukranians starved to death in millions
Yes, due to the particularities of agriculture in Ukraine, not due to ethnic or imperialist reasons, so it’s not comparable to India or Ireland
yeah there was no way to deliver food there, especially not from foreign countries that offered aid. also not possible to let people leave
Food aid did arrive, though insufficient, but as I explained previously, the industrialization hinged on grain exports (the USSR being at the time a preindustrial society meant there was literally nothing else they could export) to import machinery and expertise to kickstart the industrialization. A delay in industrial development due to stopping the grain exports would have directly implied a Nazi victory.
There is absolutely no historical evidence of any intent of hunger against Ukrainians (unlike for example Israeli politicians explicitly discussing starving Palestinians to exterminate them), and the famine also killed millions of ethnic Russians and Central Asians. This is the consensus among contemporary historians.
The Bolsheviks correctly predicted that a delay in industrialization would lead to them being crushed by western imperialist invasion. There’s ample evidence for this even in the Western-edited Wikipedia article on Soviet industrialization:
From a foreign policy point of view, the country was in hostile conditions. According to the leadership of the All-Union Communist Party (Bolsheviks), there was a high probability of a new war with capitalist states. It is significant that even at the 10th congress of the Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1921, Lev Kamenev, the author of the report “About the Soviet Republic Surrounded”, stated that preparations for the Second World War, which had begun in Europe
That was as far as 1921 but they couldn’t industrialize at the time due to the civil war, hence Lenin’s “New Economic Policy” which lasted roughly until 1929. Stalin famously predicted the start of WW2 down to the literal year in which it would happen. From a speech by Stalin in 1929:
We are 50–100 years behind the advanced countries. We must make good this distance in ten years. Either we do it, or they crush us.
This is the reason why the agrarian collectivization was carried out in such a hurried fashion and a famine ensued. There was ample debate about this in the party, but ultimately, the international pressure and threat of invasion was too great, and fortunately the Bolsheviks reacted quickly enough to be able to industrialize.
Between 1929 and 1939 (the eve of WW2), the Soviet Union grew its output by 15% yearly, a miracle unseen in history ever before. Thanks to this industrialization, the Soviets could manufacture the tanks, planes, artillery and rifles necessary to defeat the Nazis, whose explicit purpose was to genocide the entirety of Slavic peoples between Berlin and the Urals. Had it not been for the heroic effort of the Soviet industrialization, sadly a lot of which was brunted by Ukrainians, the Nazis might have won WW2 and genocided the entirety of Ukraine. Glory to the Ukrainian Soviet heroes of WW2 who contributed massively to the defeat of Nazism with their own work and blood.
so they decided the potential industrial progress was worth however many deaths in the ukranian region
not someone i would like to associate with
also, it is a useless thought exercise, but would they have been crushed by the nazis? in the end, it was the winter that they didn’t prepare adequately for, plus the usa sent a bunch of equipment over, maybe they’d have sent more, if neededSo they decided the potential industrial progress
Not potential, measurable and factual, sustained 15% growth in industrial output yearly, with it being the only defense possible against the upcoming imperialist invasion.
was worth however many deaths in the Ukranian region
How many Ukrainians would have been exterminated without the Soviet Union having the capability to manufacture 30.000 T-34 tanks against the Nazi war machine? Answer: all of them.
also, it is a useless thought exercise, but would they have been crushed by the nazis?
Yes, there is absolutely no doubt about this and it’s consensus among economists. A feudal country cannot defeat an industrialized nation bordering its lands if the latter invades it. It was not “winter” winning the war, that’s Napoleon, it was the battle of Stalingrad that resulted in a turning point in the war. The Soviets were THIS close to losing the war, and even in victory, 27 million Soviet citizens died as a consequence of the war.
plus the usa sent a bunch of equipment over, maybe they’d have sent more, if needed
Your speculation is nonsense. The USA did in fact send more equipment to England than to the USSR, and it is the latter that defeated the Nazis (80% of dead Nazi soldiers were killed in the Eastern Front). There is absolutely no doubt possible that the USSR would have been crushed with Blitzkrieg as were Poland and France had it not been for their industrialization efforts in the previous decade, this is the historical consensus. Stop trying to bend reality in a topic in which you’re clearly not well educated.
so?
Want to blame the evil RuZZians for it like those Banderite nazis do bcs they got their ass kicked? LOLwho else was leading the soviet union? who exported the food out of ukraine? much like in the irish famine?
You have zero knowledge how the SU even worked.
Where do you think Chruchov came from? The clown who gave Russian Crimea to that temporary anomaly.
IDC what you and your nazi friends imagine happened, it’s BS.
Grasping at straws to justify their Russophobia and blatant fascism.
For everyone to see, even today.You have zero knowledge how the SU even worked.
not quite zero, but i’ll admit, i’m not super knowledgeable
Where do you think Chruchov came from? The clown who gave Russian Crimea to that temporary anomaly.
does it matter? did the ukranian people do it to themselves if that guy was from there originally?
did/does it help the georgians that stalin was from there?Grasping at straws to justify their Russophobia and blatant fascism.
russians keep serving pretty thick and sturdy straws
also, til, criticising the soviet union/russia is fascism
The “holodomor” is Nazi Banderite propaganda. There was a famine in an area that was prone to famine for centuries prior. It was not targeted at Ukraine, it also affected Kazakhstan and western Russia. It was also the last time they had a famine.
They had one more after WW2 but this one is never mentioned in western media because “nazis deliberately causing starvation by destroying half of USSR agriculture and murdering millions of Ukrainians, Belarussians and Russians” is going against western narrations.
Yeah I probably should have specified last natural famine. Even then kulaks worsened it beyond what it should have been through burning crops and slaughtering livestock.
Fuck off with your holodomor BS
For those who say it’s a hoax, look up videos of any Cuban on YouTube and turn on the subtitles.
“People in socialist countries starve because we starve them”
Why the quotes?
I’m saying the US basically says this.
