Sorry for the rant, I don’t know if it belongs here, I’m new. But I am just super disappointed and want to maybe help people in the future experiencing something similar so we can cope together.
So, a few days ago, one of my random alt accounts on Reddit gets sitewide banned for harassment because I called someone dumb in the comments (literally no more than that) as a joke on a shitpost a few years ago. I laugh the random account ban off and delete the account and return to my normal Redditing.
Now, I’ve been a daily commenter and poster on Reddit for several years at this point. You could call it addiction. But I also use it for updates and questions at my local university, so it’s also made its way into my personal life, too.
So, after the ban, I figured I was fine and I could continue to use one of my many other accounts. I was wrong.
Nope. A few hours later, ALL of my accounts over the last decade or so get permanently banned for ban evasion. I did not know Reddit bans were global like that. So, obviously I try to appeal the bullshit original ban, but I DELETED the account so I couldn’t.
I try to appeal on the alts, but I get the same generic “your request has been denied” message. Over and over again across all of them, same message.
So, I figure that they banned me for having my other accounts on the same device. Really shitty all my accounts were gone but I was reluctantly fine to start over by removing them all and deleting the app.
Those accounts got banned too.
Okay, looks like it’s by IP and device. Cool. I’ll… use the browser version on Brave and use a VPN when I want to post on Reddit. Super inconvenient but I’ll do what I have to do.
All accounts created or largely used on a VPN get shadow banned and appeals are ignored.
Okay, VPNs don’t work. I’ll delete all my account info on all my devices, reset my router to change my IP, use a new device, and not sign into any accounts other than Reddit and that should be good!
It works for a few hours. Perfectly fine. But, as I scroll more and more, I start to see communities that I recognize from my old accounts. No big deal, they probably recommend those communities to a lot of new users.
But, as I scrolled more and more, even smaller communities showed up that I used. Smaller, smaller, and even smaller, until eventually these were subs under 5k members even though I didn’t interact with he vast majority. They caught me, again, on a brand new device with a different IP.
Well fuck. Reddit is going to be the biggest inconvenience ever to use again. But I had one last trick up my sleeve.
A special VPN that uses the network of its users to reroute internet so websites are extremely unlikely to ban each individual server. A fucking virtual linux machine. Brave browser with the most secure settings.
It went well for longer this time, a few days, but the same Orwellian shit happened. More and more tiny subs until I saw ones with mere single digit upvotes on all the posts on subs with just a few thousand members. And then, just a day or two after my account creation, boom. Permanent ban there, too.
There is literally nothing you can do to get back on Reddit if you’re banned and want to use it in even a slightly normal way. I have submitted an appeal on the reddithelp form, but this is also extremely unlikely to be accepted even though the ban was bullshit; they haven’t responded yet. I don’t think I can ever use Reddit again because their system uses the most advanced AI to detect evaders I have ever seen. They’re definitely spending tens of millions monthly on computer costs and research SOLELY to catch evaders and it fucking works.
So, I guess I’m a Lemming from now on. Super upset, Lemmy doesn’t have subs for my favourite games and even the more popular games are super inactive. But, there is nothing I can do. Sorry for the rant but I know I started reading ban posts like these for hours when I first got banned, so I hope I can help people in the future realize they’re completely done for unless their appeal gets accepted.
TL;DR: Even with a completely unrelated device, IP, and a virtual machine, Reddit’s AI will detect what types of posts you like until they are slightly confident it’s you. Then, permanent ban. You cannot avoid this. I’m super bummed out.
Edit: For peoples who have had site-wide bans doomscrolling about it in the future like I was, I’m not saying evading a ban is impossible. If you really want to get back on don’t give up hope, I’m just saying it’s going to be very difficult. But definitely consider contributing to the awesome Lemmy community. I know it’s missing a lot, but it does help scratch the itch. I recommend the Blorp app as it’s the most similar to Reddit’s UI.
This is a fairly interesting story, how do they manage to identify you with (high enough) certainty. People should shudder at the possibilities here. Maybe they track your screen resolution mouse-movement speed and even typing anomalies to detect you.
Dude my whole family got banned on Reddit when i got banned. It’s a shitty corporation.
Same thing happened to me (shortly before the IPO, of course). Reddit had been enshittifying for years, and the blanket ban was the nudge I needed to stop giving a fuck about it anymore.
Being banned from reddit was a huge leap for my mental help. Glad they did me the service
I wonder how many calories your brain burned trying to get back into the crackhouse that is Reddit. I’m impressed by the sheer height of that wall of text alone.
TLDR; tho
If you have to go back for the user base, use a fresh Firefox profile with no extensions except uBlock Origin and Jshelter then combine that with a mobile hotspot without a VPN.
Also, when you create an account, do not use the sign up button in the top right. Instead click a random Reddit thread on Google, then click reply on a random comment and then create the account.
DO NOT use your main email (including Gmail’s +1 or exam.ple variants) or phone number.
I got permabanned for reporting someone else for calling me slurs and threatening me. My appeal was rejected. Everyone in my household was also banned alongside me.
Since then, I’ve moved to a different country and gotten all new devices. I tried making another account to connect with people in the new area, using a new email address. A few hours later, before I’d made any posts, comments or joined any of my old subs, I was permabanned again for ban evasion. (I had, in fact, only visited subs I’d never been to before, where the majority of posts were even in a different language from what my original account viewed…)
I honestly have no idea how they tracked me, or if that’s what actually happened. (Maybe they have some AI that autobans a portion of new accounts now, just in case?)
VPN accounts typically get shadowbanned quickly in my experience. You need residential proxies. There’s also a warm up period for accounts where they are soft locked out of certain features like modmail, commenting, creating a community, etc. You won’t be told of these limitations, simply shadowbanned if you try to use them.
I’m not sure about Reddit’s use of device fingerprinting or user behavior heuristics when it comes to detecting evasion.
We are at war. I create accounts daily to send out modmail within my rights. We shouldn’t let admins or even mods sleep. I found it funny one time they blackholed an account so hard it couldn’t even be logged into anymore, then banned the entire username prefix “yoyoyopo” all at once, thinking it would stop me.
We are at war.
Are you ok?
We shouldn’t let admins or even mods sleep.
Are you opposed to all content moderation or just reddit specific implementation?
one time they blackholed an account so hard it couldn’t even be logged into anymore
Isn’t that just a regular ban?
i heard about the proxies, you would have to use it with anti-detection browser to make full use of it, there sa forum where you can purchase private proxies that way reddit doesnt detect the most common or abused ones. warmp up includes human behaviour otherwise they might see your account as a bot.
they seem to trust google email accounts or, the browsers chrom or Firefox. if you are on any of the other forks, they might consider flaggin the account.
Just go to the library and use their computers to make a new account and post.
when i still had accces to my universities computers, i unknowingly was doing just that, but for a public library its more problematic because you have to use your own devices.
Reddit’s AI will detect what types of posts you like until they are slightly confident it’s you. Then, permanent ban.
This seems extremely unlikely. There is most likely another explanation for what you experienced.
I’ll take Things that make your fingerprint unique, Alex:
- Cookies
- Rare browsers
- Local/Session storage/IndexedDB
- Browser extensions
- Your mouse patterns
- Your browser’s timezone
- Your browser canvas
- Other fingerprint techniques…
Chameleon is a nice browser extension (it does some nasty things on sites that do try to assert that you are human, or that is it truly you, and you can get banned or blocked so use it with that in mind) that tries to hide some of those things, but maybe they look for it in your browser and default to other techniques… I understand this has been son effort on your part and that some of the things I listed do not apply to you in your last attempts, but maybe some of the others do. Or maybe this is a signal for you to leave that cesspool, maybe.
If you want to see how big your fingerprint can be: https://amiunique.org/
hey that really worked. Great link
Blorp dev here. Welcome to Lemmy! Let me know if there is anything I can do to improve your experience. PieFed is also worth checking out. You’ll see all the same content as Lemmy, and PieFed has post flairs. Blorp lets you login to PieFed and Lemmy at the same time.
Thanks for making Blorp, it’s my favourite Lemmy app I’ve tried! And the lack of post flairs is something I’ve noticed, so I might try PieFed out.
If you want feedback on some more (very minor) things I would love to be fixed, here’s a list of things I’ve noticed:
I posted on the Blorp community yesterday about wanting a “read all” button for notifications (mostly because this post got a lot) so that would be really nice.
Other than that, it’s mostly just tiny things. Apparently Lemmy has a backend way to see user karma, so maybe seeing that would be nice to add as an option?
Maybe a button to copy and paste a post’s body text on mobile like on Reddit, or even a “save image/video” button? This is really minor.
And maybe an easier way to see the upvote/downvote ratio? (like 87% upvoted as an example)
Maybe this isn’t possible for some reason, but would a way to create a community inside of Blorp be possible? I don’t know if Lemmy works like that.
Thanks again for making this app, especially the fact that it’s on iOS. I hope it’s not too much of a time/financial burden because it’s great.
(All of this is from iOS by the way)
I started working on mark read. I’m also going to take this as an opportunity to improve marking read/unread in general.
I don’t think Lemmy supports karma or intends to support karma. It might be possible to stitch something together, but it would be kinda sketchy. Since you’re new to Lemmy, I would just embrace the lack of karma and see in a month or two if you still miss it. I think PieFed has a way of labeling a user’s “Attitude”, so maybe that could replace what you’re looking for.
Copy is interesting. I’ll think about how I would add that.
I was thinking maybe long press to peak at ratio. I would have to see if that’s possible. I should also add an option to always show upvotes and downvotes separately.
I would love to eventually support create community in Blorp. For now, this is low priority since you might do this only a few times ever. On the other hand, things like moderation will happen daily. So I would add more moderation features before adding create community.
It’s not a burden! I feel financially privileged. At least compared to others my age. Building Blorp is my way to give back. Though I have been trying to make more time for my other hobbies lately, so I’ve been a little slower than usual.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words! Nice to see a fellow iOS user, as most Lemmy users aren’t.
I got perma-banned years ago for simply saying “fingers crossed” on a post about Trump getting COVID.
I created a new account and have been on that since. Even posing in the sub that triggered the ban.
Weird. Seems someone is taking a personal vendetta out on you.
reddit has been going hard on anti-musk, anti-israel, and anti-trump comments, even simple words can be considered a ban now.
deleted by creator
This is more of a recent thing.
Since the API changes, everyone’s been pretty much forced to use their first-party app, so they can collect even more data on you. But, even without it, they still collect a comically huge amount of data like how long you hover on a post or how fast you type on your keyboard.
That combined with the seemingly sudden leap in AI within the last 3-4 years has allowed them to employ AI specifically trained to detect evaders.
If you want to keep using Reddit, be careful, because second chances are very hard now!
I encourage your enthusiasm for writing and suggest you just forget about the old site. You can bookmark important conversations/announcements. We don’t have all them niche discussions, but folks
such as themcan get fucked.Did you vape your browser cache? Take anti browser fingerprinting steps? So how do you think they’re identifying you?
Reddit AI analyses the content of comments and the sorts of posts the user interacts with, and generates a fingerprint of a user, and ban any user which matches the fingerprint of a banned user.
Hahaha what a fucking waste of money. For the amount of money that they’re wasting on using LLMs to analyze content, they could fix the actual root problems that makes their platform suck ass.
google and OPENAI is paying for that DATA. thats why reddits AI moderation is so aggressive. reddit is getting money to have thier data scraped, hence google searches are almost always reddit in the top.
Now that makes a lot of sense - I got a lifetime ban about 9 months back, got back in 2 or 3 times but within hours I’d get re-banned. That explains why, when I showed up on my regular platforms, (specifically r/palestine), I’d get spotted.
I honestly struggled for a couple of months without reddit, but have now substituted it for the most part with a combination of Lemmy and Mastodon…fuck you reddit, lol!
they also analyze the fingerprint of your browser to.
to what? you didn’t finish
Nothing but usage patterns is sufficient but browser fingerprints and IP location obviously makes it easier for them.
I linger on a post from a smaller sub they randomly recommend for 0.2 seconds longer than other posts? They get a little suspicious.
I click a google search link to a post about a hobby I was into on a previous account? They get more suspicious.
They say, “oh look, a dude that’s into Minecraft (joined that sub), 3D printing (from google question) that lives in x city and uses Windows. We only have like 10 of those on the entire platform, and one is banned! Let’s start suggesting them communities from their old accounts to see if it’s the same person.”
Then, after you even remotely interact with those older/smaller communities that they fire at you as a test suggestion, they gain more and more evidence until they’re very confident it’s you. Then boom, evasion ban again.
There’s no way around this unless you don’t use Reddit for what you want to and only browse r/all or something.
Edit: Yeah, forgot to answer the actual question. All browser cache data is removed. They’re doing it with data on what subs I like alone.
Once you’re over the addiction, maybe a month or so, you’ll enjoy your life better. There’s an energy about reddit that you see her occasionally, but not all of the time. It’s worse than you probably currently realize.
You’re right, I definitely have a serious addiction and I am realizing it more now. This post definitely reads like I’ve been separated from cocaine, lmao.
It’s probably my limited social life combined with the endless scrolling. The fucking reddit notifications from posts and comments sorta filled that void, it’s super sad ik.
Breaking the addiction will be a hard adjustment and it’s not easy, but I hope I will get over it and I know you’re right.
But the ban is also shitty outside of the context of my general usage addiction though even though that’s obviously the main factor. Asking general questions about random shit has helped me solve so many problems.
Stick with Lemmy for a bit. It’s like a less-overwhelming, cozier, friendlier Reddit.
vape your browser cache
wow browsers can blow dank clouds now? broooo.
Sorry, I had to :P
You are going about it the wrong way. The ban evasion is not as sophisticated as you make it out to be. Put a VPN or mobile data and create an account with a normal email. Use a normal web browser like firefox. Thats all. Ive been banned like 60+ times. Once you make the account dont comment for a few days and ease into it.
Using tor, vpns, etc makes you stick out. Commenting a ton and being super active makes you stick out. They aren’t detecting that it was YOU they banned they are just banning you because you are acting suspicious and botlike.
reddit detects vpn too easily.
If the VPN has a ton of bad traffic coming from it then you’ll get banned. Any free VPN will 100% get you cooked. But i can create an account on the paid proton VPN servers with no issues.
So do you literally just wait a few days and rejoin some of your favourite smaller subs after a few days no matter how small they are and still remain undetected?
Are you ever connecting to your old IP again after making the account on data or are you being super careful about it?
Also, if the bans aren’t for evasion, how are you coming back after 60 fucking times lol?!
After a month I’ll stop being careful and use my home IP
Because after I got banned for something so minor I was pissed at reddit and kept I being rude to comments and posts that were shit.
You know how you see the same reddit opinion over and over and over even though its completely incorrect. Or see posts that are so obviously false or rule breaking. I’d just be rude as fuck in my reply tone, not breaking any rules but still would draw bans.
The ones I hated the most were am I the asshole posts where they clearly weren’t. Like “am I the asshole for being abused by my parents”. Same with firecape posters in the old school runescape subreddit.
So you use the same devices as before just like firefox with cleared cookies? How long do your accs last?
Also sorry for bombarding you with questions it’s just I rlly doubt wanna lose the ability to post on some of these subs lol
I dont clear cookies but i run unlock. Accounts last a long time. Ive had one for a while because i spent my time on Lemmy these days. I dont comment on reddit much anymore. Just use it to view. Check your DMS you can habe the account.
hey hey, welcome. I left my account behind after someone sent me a picture of a dead kid on it and reporting it did nothing.
also, I find this post extremely fascinating on a technical level. if you were using a virtual machine with a VPN I wonder how they were getting the data back.
I don’t even think the evasion detection is that complicated.
Barring fingerprinting and IP shit, let’s say they index every single user that spends more than 25 hours on their site per month to lower computational load relative to if we did every single user.
For each of those users, they might record 10 of their most used “niche subreddits” (those with under 200,000 members, niche because most reddit users are in the non-niche subs so it’s not conclusive enough)
From that data alone, if a user happens to be into, say, Golden Age Minecraft, 3D Printing, Stampylongnose, Namesoundalike memes, Drakethetype memes, and be in a Saskatchewan local sub, ON TOP of the account being relatively new, this is enough evidence for Reddit to be 99.9% confident that you’re the same user as someone else with that data—and if that someone else with that data is banned, you’re gone too!
That’s how I think they do it. So, you have to completely change your usage habits on top of all device fingerprinting and IP stuff. Near impossible unless you’re not just terminally online (like me) but eternally online.
Seems unlikely that they’d do this just to catch ban evaders? They probably were already doing it for targeted ads, so might as well repurpose it for this, too!
they are looking at more than just IP, DEVICE, and fingerprinting. they are looking at your components, screen resolution , your pattern. also they tend to ban very easily on nebulous tos violations.
