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Two Illinois National Guard members told CBS News they would refuse to obey federal orders to deploy in Chicago as part of President Trump’s controversial immigration enforcement mission — a rare act of open defiance from within the military ranks.
“It’s disheartening to be forced to go against your community members and your neighbors,” said Staff Sgt. Demi Palecek, a Latina guardswoman and state legislative candidate from Illinois’s 13th District. “It feels illegal. This is not what we signed up to do.”
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This is why they deploy people to other states
Just like tienamen square :)
This is the problem the Trump administration is going to have.
It’s been made clear to us that many members of our armed forces have betrayed their oaths. We know from history that this is typical. Many people see an authoritarian government rising and choose to side with them because they think they’ll win due to their tough guy theatrics.
But America is too mixed at this point.
This isn’t the Civil War where the sides were generally geographically separated between north and south. Liberals and conservatives are all mixed in across the country. When it comes down to the wire, you aren’t going to convince many service members to bomb, shoot, murder in a region where their own family and friends live.
Even if he had every last member of the military ready to do it, citizens still vastly outnumber them. But he won’t. The number of actual diehard MAGAts ready to actually start randomly murdering Americans en masse in all the mixed areas of our nation is not remotely enough to stop us if he decides to actually pop this off.
If they’re smart they’ll dial back and turn up the heat slower so they can implement their authoritarian state slow enough that the average person doesn’t notice until too late. Right now they’re escalating too quickly. Getting too many people’s attention. Probably because Trump knows he doesn’t have much time left. And because they’re stupid.
Good luck to those two. Unless a significant portion of the military and national guard reject orders they’re just going to get court martialed.
Basically if you’re in the army you HAVE TO obey orders. “I was just following orders” is enshrined as a legal defense for everything except overtly criminal acts like genocide, killing babies, etc… even if the order was otherwise illegal. On the other hand, disobeying an order you think might be illegal means you will be arrested and held until a judge decides if the order was legal or not.
The only way this works is if their fellow military members and National guard all refuse to obey these illegal orders to hurt their fellow countrymen.
Has to start with someone
Yup. I hope they start something BIG!
Only fucking two ?
This is how it starts. First two. Then a dozen. Then you’ve two hundred Guardsmen unwillingly to follow illegal orders.
Two spoke out. It is not stated how many are also taking this action without the speaking to news part.
Narrator: not many.
Read history, people don’t become soldiers for the state because they have leftist principals, they follows orders and “just do their jobs.”
Yeah, remembering stuff like Kent State and all, I don’t bank in it.
If you’re in military do not say you are not on their side. Let it be a surprise
Bringing the discussion out into the open though could encourage others to do the same.
You’ll need both.
Yeah, it’s the same reason dog whistles are so popular with Nazis. In order for a fringe group to grow and gain new members, the people inclined to follow it need to feel like there is tacit support.
Absolutely this.
As much as I admire these 2 guardsmen for speaking out, they’re fucking idiots for doing so.
All they will accomplish is to be booted out of the guard.
Partisans don’t speak up. They act, quietly.
Someone still needs to say it publicly. You could have half the people in the deployment feeling that what they’re doing is wrong, but it’s not really an environment that encourages open discussion, let alone questioning orders. The person you speak to in confidence may share your feeling. Or they could be a closet murder hobo excited at the chance to hunt people for real. Is it worth finding out when you have bills to pay? A family to feed (and protect from harassment)?
Public dissent lets people know that they’re not alone. And hopefully outs the murder hobos when they go into an impotent rage.
Every act of resistance is important.
I don’t disagree. But the people speaking publicly and trying to change things should be the commanding officers.
A general refusing to deploy troops, or even better, actively siding with local citizens, would have a far greater and significant impact than what these two have done.
General staff resigning achieves nothing. They are the ones who should be resisting the attack against the American people.
“I was only following orders” is not a valid legal defence
if the people at the bottom are brave enough to speak out, it puts alot of pressure on the people at the top to be brave as well.
I’m not so sure about that. They’re literally only saying that they won’t follow illegal orders. Speaking out about not following illegal orders is probably the only way they can show dissent without being retaliated against. “What, you’re going to punish me for saying i wouldn’t do something illegal? The you’re admitting that you made an illegal order”
The whole point of soldiers and basic training is to mentally break people so they do anything they are told.
Tell me you’ve never been to basic without saying it.
You aren’t taught to follow any order. You’re taught to follow lawful orders. There is a big difference.
So killing students at Kent State was lawful, and bayonetting others at UMN?
Whew…good thing they changed that law.
There was no order to fire in that incident. The guardsmen opened fire because they were"scared for their lives". That narrative has been questioned because it isn’t plausible but no one ever gave an order to shoot.
Edit: I didn’t see you mentioned UNM bayonetting too but after looking at that one it seems like that also didn’t have an order to bayonet people. If you approach a soldier with a bayonet out who is there for riot control you might get stabbed. It’s not right but it’s a fact. That’s just the self defense mentality of soldiers.
It’s the main reason you shouldn’t use soldiers in policing actions because generally we are trained to kill, not to talk nicely to people. But it’s also why you train soldiers to only follow legal orders.
And check out that CIA field sabotage manual that’s all over the Internet
That’s exactly why they’re sending guard from other states
Kind of like Tiananmen Square.
Everyone (at least in the West) seems to know about tank man, but there’s another story that’s not as widely known and I never understood why. It shines a whole new light on this and explains why the Chinese government is so heavy handed when it comes to this subject. It was more than just another autocratic crackdown on protestors, which, while terrible, are par for the course.
A good chunk of military units sent in to squash the protestors refused to carry out their orders, refused to brutalize and kill their countrymen. Some actively joined in on the protests, then units sent in to put a stop it joined in as well. This terrified the Chinese leadership so they sent in the 27th army group, largely comprised of illiterate peasant farmers with no connection to Beijing or its people, headed by a politically reliable officer. The 27th army group then proceeded to massacre everyone, not ‘just’ students and protestors, but their own comrades in arms, other PLA soldiers.
Read the British embassy report and tell me it doesn’t completely change your perspective. The CCP wants everyone to think this was just another protest, no big deal. It wasn’t, it was the time they almost lost control, and they know it. It’s why they’re so fearful.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_cable_on_Tiananmen_Square_Massacre
Dang it, a lot of our military is illiterate peasant farmers already…
The East India company did this exact thing. Most of their troops were local seppoys. When the local ones didn’t want to harm their brothers and sisters, send in troops from further away + different tribes + different castes etc and they have no issues. See also: British army in northern Ireland, British army in Kenya, Chinese army in Tianamin Square, Soviet army in Hungary and plenty of other examples
Holy shit… This was Putin’s suggestion wasn’t it? Get Texans to shoot people in Chicago to kickstart the 2nd civil war…
Yikes. That’s kinda what I’ve been fearing this would really turn into: a chance to “legally” weaponize the chuds against their perceived enemies after years and years of propaganda. I can’t imagine the seething hatred they’ve managed to stoke in some of their most ardent supporters, and now they’re just finding ways to put guns in their hands and ship em off to ‘clean up the city/country/whatever the fuck’ or some such self-aggrandizing bullshit
I don’t know, I don’t think we should be taking credit away from Stephen Miller and Russ Vought
God speed, Patriots.
